Akok training with Coach Sal | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Akok training with Coach Sal

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Chief00 said:
The sooner they can cook him into some weight lifting the better. Waiting for the optimal moment may be a long wait. Quite frankly, sometimes one just needs to dive in on the deep end and start trying to swim.
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Is there any topic you don't think you're the expert in? Think I'll put my trust in the strength Coach on this one. Quite frankly, Chief has no idea what he is talking about, as usual.
 
People forget that the coach is building Strength and Conditioning. And strength is different from size or weight, you can make a skinny guy strong. In basketball you fight for position using large muscles, upper body, thighs, gluts. You run down the court using your larger muscles thighs, calves. Then you have to use fine motor skills for dribbling and shooting, hands, fingers. The last part is mostly about conditioning.

If strength training makes you bigger than conditioning becomes more important. In short, there are so many variables that programs need to be individualized. So without knowing what the S&C is focused on, it's difficult to tell how much progress the player is making.
 
superjohn said:
Durant couldn't even come close to benching 185 lbs. for 1 rep when he came into the NBA, if I had to guess he still can't. Brandon Ingram was benching with 115 lbs. when he came in the league. Akok does need to gain strength, especially in the legs but to say he's obviously a 4 year player based off this vid is ridiculous.

These exercises are all nice but the only way to gain strength is lifting weights and eating a lot.
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If Akok plans to go into the league as a 2 or 3, then sure he can be as skinny as Durant or Ingram were. But if he is expected to be a 4 or 5 then he is going to be tossed around like a cardboard cutout in the AAC, let alone the NBA.

Agreed he can probably put on enough mass and size to be a 4 in the NBA in about 2 years (with lots more size and development to come after he gets into the league), but kid needs to bust his ass off.
 
superjohn said:
You can always start with weights, weights don't injure you, only bad form or too much wieght for you to handle can cause injuries. All this exercise science stuff and doing all these core exercises before you graduate to weights is kind of nonsensical to me. All the major lifts people have been doing for over a hundred years build core strength.

I'm not discrediting Sal, he obviously knows what he's doing.
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@superjohn - 100% correct. Let’s not overthink this fellas.
#ChiefCertified
 
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Sal is doing things the right way. You need to build the neurological maps / muscle memory at a slow pace and non-threatening weights in order to get the full effect. This is why tai chi is so effective as a martial art -- those slow, low-force movements are not training the muscles, they are teaching the brain what the muscles can do. With the brain allowing proper movement, and repetition having made it second nature, the weight lifting will be more effective. Going too quickly to high weights risks baking in bad habits that will limit progress and risk injury.
 
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pj said:
Sal is doing things the right way. You need to build the neurological maps / muscle memory at a slow pace and non-threatening weights in order to get the full effect. This is why tai chi is so effective as a martial art. With the brain allowing proper movement, and repetition having made it second nature, the weight lifting will be more effective. Going too quickly to high weights risks baking in bad habits that will limit progress and risk injury.
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But the anonymous message board poster says we shouldnt trust the professionals....
 
Chief00 said:
The sooner they can cook him into some weight lifting the better. Waiting for the optimal moment may be a long wait. Quite frankly, sometimes one just needs to dive in on the deep end and start trying to swim.
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I think Sal has a pretty good idea of what he's doing.

Kid probably hasn't lifted a weight in his life (not properly anyway). No need to get him hurt right off the bat. Just build a base and then go.
 
Scrutiner said:
Struggling on pushups.....check.
Painfully thin...check.
You dredging for "likes"......check.

Boneyard training graduates all agree he needs major development, so why can't you?
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He's not struggling. He's doing them purposefully slowly, as you should. It's about form over speed every time.
 
LIuconn said:
I hope we can hang on to Sal for a few years
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I'd take a guess Hurley's initial pitch to Sal was to come for 2-3 years to help change culture, then he can peace out.
 
.-.
superjohn said:
You can always start with weights, weights don't injure you, only bad form or too much wieght for you to handle can cause injuries. All this exercise science stuff and doing all these core exercises before you graduate to weights is kind of nonsensical to me. All the major lifts people have been doing for over a hundred years build core strength.

I'm not discrediting Sal, he obviously knows what he's doing.
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If you build muscle on a bad base, as an athlete, you're in trouble. The mobility and coordination of joints/muscles/core etc is everything. I'm sure that's what Sal's getting at.
 
husky429 said:
Hes lifting. Its not in the video because its very low weights currently.

Its about developing MOBILITY for heavy lifts, much more than core strength.

Basketball players are more strong and athletic than ever. Look at the Bird/Magic pics from back in the day. Compare that to Giannis/Harden (and hardens doughy by nba standards!!) That's because of strength and conditioning advances.
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My money would be on either college Bird or college Magic in a fight versus Akok, heck I'd wouldn't bet against them now either.

(Kind of a silly point though, don't you agree in retrospect?)
 
husky429 said:
Just asked my "source" about Sal out of curiosity

Apparently he's all over these kids on diet and meal prep. Has made Akok eat snacks on the bench during games, lol. Tracks basically everything they eat.

Not a screaming/intense guy in the gym like you might expect from his incidents before uconn. Does expect intensity from the guys though like Hurley. More methodical, scientific than you might expect. Source says doing some kind of martial art has mellowed him out?

Really working towards getting the players to be able to do olympic lifts, deadlifts, etc. But for bball players (they are tall, skinny, and disproportional have the time) it can take a lot of prep to get them there. Thats what youre seeing with Akok. I do know hes been with a high level strength program since.at least November before he got to uconn.

Seems to think Sid has had a reality check this year. Hoping he's more dedicated to the gym because of it.

Is really impressed with Sal. Hes willing to bring in other strength/PT experts for help, works hard, creating a great culture. If a kid doesnt come back next year prepared for the season, its their own fault.
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Exactly. Throwing a 6'9 beanpole into Olympic lifts is a whole nother ball of wax than your average 5'7" weekend warrior. The leverage and force on the joints is all off.

I'm not sure why there is surprised at Sal relying on 'exercise science'. You CANNOT train in professional anything without that. It's literally the leading edge of physical fitness and performance. Anything less, and I'd be disappointed.
 
intlzncster said:
If you build muscle on a bad base, as an athlete, you're in trouble. The mobility and coordination of joints/muscles/core etc is everything. I'm sure that's what Sal's getting at.
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Sal knows what he doing. I don't think that's the issue so much as AKok's starting point. He'll get there but it's a long road.
 
CL82 said:
Sal knows what he doing. I don't think that's the issue so much as AKok's starting point. He'll get there but it's a long road.
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We all got a look at the kid before he committed. I'm surprised that anybody is surprised at his starting point. Kid looks like a clothes hanger.
 
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husky429 said:
Apparently he's all over these kids on diet and meal prep. Has made Akok eat snacks on the bench during games, lol. Tracks basically everything they eat.

Not a screaming/intense guy in the gym like you might expect from his incidents before uconn. Does expect intensity from the guys though like Hurley. More methodical, scientific than you might expect. Source says doing some kind of martial art has mellowed him out?
...
Is really impressed with Sal. Hes willing to bring in other strength/PT experts for help, works hard, creating a great culture. If a kid doesnt come back next year prepared for the season, its their own fault.
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This was really great to hear.

It's the kind of pro-level program UCONN desperately needed. Size, strength, speed, mobility, etc is really a holistic endeavor at this point in our knowledge of best practice in regards to fitness. It's not a matter of just walking into the gym and rocking up to the squat racks anymore.

As you say, if the kids don't make gains, we now know who to hold accountable.
 
What you want is to get stronger but remain quick. This is especially important in hoop. Guys that can double or triple jump for a board is the measuring stick.
 
pj said:
Sal is doing things the right way. You need to build the neurological maps / muscle memory at a slow pace and non-threatening weights in order to get the full effect. This is why tai chi is so effective as a martial art -- those slow, low-force movements are not training the muscles, they are teaching the brain what the muscles can do. With the brain allowing proper movement, and repetition having made it second nature, the weight lifting will be more effective. Going too quickly to high weights risks baking in bad habits that will limit progress and risk injury.
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Why I think that Feldenkrais could help all of our athletes perform at a higher, more elegant level.
 
intlzncster said:
Exactly. Throwing a 6'9 beanpole into Olympic lifts is a whole nother ball of wax than your average 5'7" weekend warrior. The leverage and force on the joints is all off.

I'm not sure why there is surprised at Sal relying on 'exercise science'. You CANNOT train in professional anything without that. It's literally the leading edge of physical fitness and performance. Anything less, and I'd be disappointed.
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Most of it's nonsense, the science part comes into play on the food (also not too complicated) not really in the weight room. This isn't splitting the atom, it's fairly easy and the same principles apply from the 70's as they do today. So much of this stuff is overthought these days. You want to gain functional strength you do explosive compound movements and you eat like it's a job.

These exercises are fine for Akok just starting out but they are mostly just accessory and/or finishing exercises. They aren't really going to do anything for his strength. I imagine Sal will have him picking up weights ASAP. I never saw any full sessions with the former strength coach but from what I heard he did seem too wrapped up in the "science" part. I suspect Alosi is a lot better for us.
 
intlzncster said:
He's not struggling. He's doing them purposefully slowly, as you should. It's about form over speed every time.
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Again this is fine for Akok just starting out but for the most part I take explosive lifting over everything.
 
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superjohn said:
Most of it's nonsense, the science part comes into play on the food (also not too complicated) not really in the weight room. This isn't splitting the atom, it's fairly easy and the same principles apply from the 70's as they do today. So much of this stuff is overthought these days. You want to gain functional strength you do explosive compound movements and you eat like it's a job.

These exercises are fine for Akok just starting out but they are mostly just accessory and/or finishing exercises. They aren't really going to do anything for his strength. I imagine Sal will have him picking up weights ASAP. I never saw any full sessions with the former strength coach but from what I heard he did seem too wrapped up in the "science" part. I suspect Alosi is a lot better for us.
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What qualifies you to make this statement?
 
intlzncster said:
If you build muscle on a bad base, as an athlete, you're in trouble. The mobility and coordination of joints/muscles/core etc is everything. I'm sure that's what Sal's getting at.
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Respectfully, is that really been our problem, building too much muscle on a bad base?
Let’s focus on getting stronger and we can go from there.
 
husky429 said:
What qualifies you to make this statement?
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Training for most of my life, reading and listening to a lot of the nonsense that gets taught. What works is mostly gained through trial and error over the years.
 
Chief00 said:
Respectfully, is that really been our problem, building too much muscle on a bad base?
Let’s focus on getting stronger and we can go from there.
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No, we skipped the building muscle part. But you need the base, or it's injury city.
 
superjohn said:
Most of it's nonsense, the science part comes into play on the food (also not too complicated) not really in the weight room. This isn't splitting the atom, it's fairly easy and the same principles apply from the 70's as they do today. So much of this stuff is overthought these days. You want to gain functional strength you do explosive compound movements and you eat like it's a job.

These exercises are fine for Akok just starting out but they are mostly just accessory and/or finishing exercises. They aren't really going to do anything for his strength. I imagine Sal will have him picking up weights ASAP. I never saw any full sessions with the former strength coach but from what I heard he did seem too wrapped up in the "science" part. I suspect Alosi is a lot better for us.
Expand ...


The higher up the performance chain you go, the less that's probably true.

Look, pro teams don't spend billions (collectively) on this stuff because it's a pipe dream.

There's a reason guys in the NFL, NBA etc are so much stronger, faster, and athletically superior than they were in the past. And it's not just nutrition (thought that's certainly a piece). It's because the knowledge and fining tuning of the process in exercise science has progressed significantly.
 
Scrutiner said:
Struggling on pushups.....check.
Painfully thin...check.
You dredging for "likes"......check.

Boneyard training graduates all agree he needs major development, so why can't you?
Expand ...

At least you aren’t baselessly and illogically speculating about his emotional health anymore. Baby steps!
 
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