ACC

[Dann]

The ACC is never going to be Duke/Wake/Cuse/Pitt/BC. This isn't kids playing around in North Carolina and Virginia. The state legislatures are going to keep VPI and Virginia as well as NCSU and UNC in the same leagues. Virginia just put in a ton of effort to get VPI into the ACC.

Schools like North Carolina aren't abandoning the ACC over 4-6 million dollars. Florida State might... but Carolina and Virginia aren't going anywhere.

4 to 6? Double that #. Thats the issue, the ACC can't get the $$ the SEC/B10/B12 can and if you want to compete with the teams of the SEC and B10 then you have to join. You can't compete getting 16mil while other school are getting 26-32mil in the other leagues. That forces hands and movement. Do you think UNC looks at Vandy and goes dam, they keep there academic rep in the SEC up somehow (it must not matter that much like the ACC says it does) and get paid a shitton more than us and our athletics could do alot better than theres in most sports in the SEC, hmmmmmmmm. FSU-Fl, think there happy about the $$$ difference? GT-UGA, Clem-USCe and so on.....

RIP ACC.

 

[whaler11]

4 to 6? Double that #. Thats the issue, the ACC can't get the $$ the SEC/B10/B12 can and if you want to compete with the teams of the SEC and B10 then you have to join. You can't compete getting 16mil while other school are getting 26-32mil in the other leagues. That forces hands and movement. Do you think UNC looks at Vandy and goes dam, they keep there academic rep in the SEC up somehow (it must not matter that much like the ACC says it does) and get paid a ****ton more than us and our athletics could do alot better than theres in most sports in the SEC, hmmmmmmmm. FSU-Fl, think there happy about the $$$ difference? GT-UGA, Clem-USCe and so on.....

RIP ACC.

I don't see how it's 8 to 12 more in the end. I also don't see how the ACC could possibly die before the Big East, as UConn, Rutgers, USF and potentially Louisville would set themselves on fire to join the ACC if they were invited.

And yes there are a handful of schools like UNC who pretend they care about academics. Obviously they don't in the end, but they don't operate in a vacuum where they can always chase the highest payday.

 

[Dann]

10 B12 teams get $22mil right now per team. Each of the 6 teams they add will bring $2mil more per team. Its also been stated that when they get over 12 that ship game is worth $1-2mil per team depending on final #'s with jerry world etc.
so 6 times 2 is 12. they can in fact get a 30+ type of number becuase of the way the land grants/tier 3 stuff works in the B12. A 16 team B12 gets each team $30mil + at the end of the day each year and there are several ways to get to that #. The ACC can only get half that and it the process its completely owned by ESPN for the next 10+ years. The B12 has several buyers and networks.

The reason the ACC dies isn't because I hate it as much as the next guy. Its because The SEC and PAC have great tv contracts. The B10 has a great network and other contracts. The B12 when it adds gets to completely redo its contract and has others also. The Big East may be leftovers not worth the $$$ like the other confrences are, but they are going to get a brand new contract with multiple bidders. The ACC has a contract with 1 network for 90% of its stuff thats got 10+ years on it and isn't getting the $$ the other are, but it has programs worth $$$. The Duke/BC/Pitt's of the world are weighing down the ACC FSU/Clem/UNC's and its showing $$ wise. The ACC dies because that contract is the worst setup of all of them.

If it did come down to duke/wake/bc/pitt/cuse and ESPN says add uconn/ruty/temple/usf/ucf, that contract at best brings $12mil per team for that league. Why would those 5 from the BE do that? For the name? They would be locking themselves into ESPN for 10+ years with no outside competition for $$. No, you convince those 5 ACC schools if they want jack to join you where you can put your product on the open market and make ESPN or Fox or NBC pay up for it.

RIP ACC

 

[whaler11]

Sure thing giant beer.... so the Big 12 is going to achieve that much incremental revenue by inviting 6 teams from leagues that make much less than the Big 12 does already. If those schools are so valuable why does their current league lag behind the Big 12 so badly?

So there are six schools currently in the ACC and Big East who they can poach and rain tens of millions on. If it were true what are those teams waiting on? Why haven't FSU, Clemson and UNC told the ACC to pound sand yet? I can't even imagine who the other 3 teams in your head are..

 

[baggerbob]

The Big 12 is not picking up anyone from the ACC, that is Notre Dame's fall back conference as they have already stated. It has been stated on other boards that Notre Dame and Texas heads know each other well, and had put feelers out to the ACC in this last round for both to join minus football, and talks fell through. No one will try to take ACC teams, for fear Notre Dame would make the immediate move to the league, and cause more reshuffling of the leagues.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The ACC is never going to be Duke/Wake/Cuse/Pitt/BC. This isn't kids playing around in North Carolina and Virginia. The state legislatures are going to keep VPI and Virginia as well as NCSU and UNC in the same leagues. Virginia just put in a ton of effort to get VPI into the ACC.

Schools like North Carolina aren't abandoning the ACC over 4-6 million dollars. Florida State might... but Carolina and Virginia aren't going anywhere.

$4-6 million/year over the next 10 years is a lot of money. While you may be generous with North Carolina taxpayers' money, I guarantee that every single public school President in the country has been told to raise revenues and cut expenses, because the state subsidies are only shrinking from here on out. UNC is certainly not going to fall on a $100 million sword to protect Duke and Wake Forest.

The minute FSU leaves, the ACC is in deep ****, and no one is going to stick around for loyalty once that happens.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The Big 12 is not picking up anyone from the ACC, that is Notre Dame's fall back conference as they have already stated. It has been stated on other boards that Notre Dame and Texas heads know each other well, and had put feelers out to the ACC in this last round for both to join minus football, and talks fell through. No one will try to take ACC teams, for fear Notre Dame would make the immediate move to the league, and cause more reshuffling of the leagues.

Notre Dame can not hold the ACC together with the dollars that are on the table. Frankly, Notre Dame would probably prefer some reconstituted, stub ACC/Big East with whoever is left over the current Big East, and they still wouldn't have to join for football.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Sure thing giant beer.... so the Big 12 is going to achieve that much incremental revenue by inviting 6 teams from leagues that make much less than the Big 12 does already. If those schools are so valuable why does their current league lag behind the Big 12 so badly?

Great point. That is why the ACC didn't add Pitt and Syracuse and the Big 12 didn't add WVU and TCU.

 

[whaler11]

Great point. That is why the ACC didn't add Pitt and Syracuse and the Big 12 didn't add WVU and TCU.

Yes they did. The B12 had 8 teams and the ACC made a defensive move. Have you noticed they could have kept adding and didn't.

North Carolina isn't leaving the ACC for 5 million dollars. Its just not happening. The ACC would certainly survive Florida State leaving. I think I've read around here how great the new Big East is and it may be the least loyal organization on the planet.

 

[Dann]

Sure thing giant beer.... so the Big 12 is going to achieve that much incremental revenue by inviting 6 teams from leagues that make much less than the Big 12 does already. If those schools are so valuable why does their current league lag behind the Big 12 so badly?

So there are six schools currently in the ACC and Big East who they can poach and rain tens of millions on. If it were true what are those teams waiting on? Why haven't FSU, Clemson and UNC told the ACC to pound sand yet? I can't even imagine who the other 3 teams in your head are..

said it before-schools like duke/bc/wake/pitt/cuse are not worth much. they bring down the tv$$ while teams like fsu/vt/clem are worth alot. together a crapy product and a good product make a ok product that gets you ok $$= 16mil a team acc

the b12 has a couple stud in tex/ok and other good products in wvu/okst etc. the bad are baylor/ist/kst which is alot better than the acc bad teams. so there $$ is alot better. now take those good acc teams product wise and put them with good and great b12 products.....rocket science.

 

[whaler11]

said it before-schools like duke/bc/wake/pitt/cuse are not worth much. they bring down the tv$$ while teams like fsu/vt/clem are worth alot. together a crapy product and a good product make a ok product that gets you ok $$= 16mil a team acc

the b12 has a couple stud in tex/ok and other good products in wvu/okst etc. the bad are baylor/ist/kst which is alot better than the acc bad teams. so there $$ is alot better. now take those good acc teams product wise and put them with good and great b12 products.....rocket science.

It isn't a draft. Notes Dame is much more valuable than Clempzon, but if they don't want to join it doesn't matter how many hypothetical millions message board posters have conjured up.

 

[gioff23]

You may be right, who the &^%$ knows. I do have 1 issue w/the logic - if the B12 is to go to 16 (as well as SEC), the PAC!@ needs to spread east or be forever landlocked. My Personal view is that the OKie and Bevo schools end up other than B12, w/2 (counting OSU or TT) going to Pac12. The B12 and P12 can not BOTH get to 16 w/o one or both taking crappy product. That's the puzzler and why IMO the B12 rmains a dying man.

said it before-schools like duke/bc/wake/pitt/cuse are not worth much. they bring down the tv$$ while teams like fsu/vt/clem are worth alot. together a crapy product and a good product make a ok product that gets you ok $$= 16mil a team acc

the b12 has a couple stud in tex/ok and other good products in wvu/okst etc. the bad are baylor/ist/kst which is alot better than the acc bad teams. so there $$ is alot better. now take those good acc teams product wise and put them with good and great b12 products.....rocket science.

 

[rdmscribbles]

You may be right, who the &^%$ knows. I do have 1 issue w/the logic - if the B12 is to go to 16 (as well as SEC), the PAC!@ needs to spread east or be forever landlocked. My Personal view is that the OKie and Bevo schools end up other than B12, w/2 (counting OSU or TT) going to Pac12. The B12 and P12 can not BOTH get to 16 w/o one or both taking crappy product. That's the puzzler and why IMO the B12 rmains a dying man.

The problem with that logic is that it has Texas/OU moving because it's the Pac's best option, not because it's what the schools want. They have already signed a grant of rights, making any such move unprofitable for a long time. And the thought of a Big 12 with a national presence, tier 3 independence, and all rivals safe seems far superior in their minds. If they didn't move west last year, when the Big 12 looked like it could fall apart, why move now that it's stable, much richer, and financially committed to itself with a grant of rights?

If all other conferences move to 16, the Pac will be the odd man out. That or they will get desperate, possibly adding four new members that are football-only to rationalize the lowered standards of the newcomers. I'm thinking Boise, BYU, SMU and Houston or the like, if it really came to that (but sticking at 12 despite the trend is much more likely).

 

[Dann]

The problem with that logic is that it has Texas/OU moving because it's the Pac's best option, not because it's what the schools want. They have already signed a grant of rights, making any such move unprofitable for a long time. And the thought of a Big 12 with a national presence, tier 3 independence, and all rivals safe seems far superior in their minds. If they didn't move west last year, when the Big 12 looked like it could fall apart, why move now that it's stable, much richer, and financially committed to itself with a grant of rights?

If all other conferences move to 16, the Pac will be the odd man out. That or they will get desperate, possibly adding four new members that are football-only to rationalize the lowered standards of the newcomers. I'm thinking Boise, BYU, SMU and Houston or the like, if it really came to that (but sticking at 12 despite the trend is much more likely).

i agree with this. to add the acc contract is the only screwed one right now. thats why the acc dies.
the pac can do this, add bsu/byu/unr/unlv. others in the running are sdsu, fresno, hawaii and a zaga/ combo sports wise. the nevada state schools both have the size and potential with big city/pops already in place. bsu and byu are easy sells. the pac will get off its high horse about academics after they watch the acc be gone like magic and realize that the b12 tex/ok crew is never coming west.

this is what scares me as a uconn fan right now:

pac-bsu/byu/unlv/unr
b12-fsu/miami/clem/gt/lville/cincy or uh
sec-ncst/vt
b10-nd/uva/unc/md

 

[UConnDan97]

i agree with this. to add the acc contract is the only screwed one right now. thats why the acc dies.
the pac can do this, add bsu/byu/unr/unlv. others in the running are sdsu, fresno, hawaii and a zaga/ combo sports wise. the nevada state schools both have the size and potential with big city/pops already in place. bsu and byu are easy sells. the pac will get off its high horse about academics after they watch the acc be gone like magic and realize that the b12 tex/ok crew is never coming west.

this is what scares me as a uconn fan right now:

pac-bsu/byu/unlv/unr
b12-fsu/miami/clem/gt/lville/cincy or uh
sec-ncst/vt
b10-nd/uva/unc/md

You are a big-time Husky fan, and I love you for it, but...did you say the Pac-12 would add Nevada and UNLV??? HuskyfanDan, this is where you lose any possible credibility on any other statement you make when you make statements like that. The Pac-12 is only a few months removed from the negotiation table with Texas, OU, OSU, and TTech, and you think they would add Nevada and UNLV?? You've gotta put down the handle of Captain Morgan's for like 5 seconds so that you can enjoy how ridiculous that statement is.

And I told myself I wouldn't put another post on this God-forsaken thread. I'm going to go ahead and whip myself "DaVinci Code" style for this one...

 

[Dann]

You are a big-time Husky fan, and I love you for it, but...did you say the Pac-12 would add Nevada and UNLV??? HuskyfanDan, this is where you lose any possible credibility on any other statement you make when you make statements like that. The Pac-12 is only a few months removed from the negotiation table with Texas, OU, OSU, and TTech, and you think they would add Nevada and UNLV?? You've gotta put down the handle of Captain Morgan's for like 5 seconds so that you can enjoy how ridiculous that statement is.

And I told myself I wouldn't put another post on this God-forsaken thread. I'm going to go ahead and whip myself "DaVinci Code" style for this one...

i am a crazy person on this board, i know but i keep it here mostly. its all for the fun of it. as for u posting in this thread again well....haha

unlv:
-vegas baby!
-sam boyd is a nice 40k i think and has a bowl game connection
-huge bball hostory thats coming back to life. so there is a sports following that can be a boost to the program going big time. kind of like uconn a bit.
-suge knight would be proud, kenny manye and jimmy kimel are annoying.
-28k public school. campus is a mile down from the strip.
-great new bball facility and they have a huge arena to play in.
-in the middle of a huge research push to raise classroom profile. tier 2 currently rising.

unr:
-reno 911 baby!
-20k public, big on certain types of research and science. tier 1 solid ranking
-30k stadium easily expanded to 40/50k by doing new endzones/corners.
-bball stuff is fine

they are not to be slept on. its a state with 2 great population areas left out of the pac right now but surrounded by pac fanbases with no one to pull for. these 2 bridge the east-west and north-south of 2 divisions for that league.

 

[UConnDan97]

i am a crazy person on this board, i know but i keep it here mostly. its all for the fun of it. as for u posting in this thread again well....haha

unlv:
-vegas baby!
-sam boyd is a nice 40k i think and has a bowl game connection
-huge bball hostory thats coming back to life. so there is a sports following that can be a boost to the program going big time. kind of like uconn a bit.
-suge knight would be proud, kenny manye and jimmy kimel are annoying.
-28k public school. campus is a mile down from the strip.
-great new bball facility and they have a huge arena to play in.
-in the middle of a huge research push to raise classroom profile. tier 2 currently rising.

unr:
-reno 911 baby!
-20k public, big on certain types of research and science. tier 1 solid ranking
-30k stadium easily expanded to 40/50k by doing new endzones/corners.
-bball stuff is fine

they are not to be slept on. its a state with 2 great population areas left out of the pac right now but surrounded by pac fanbases with no one to pull for. these 2 bridge the east-west and north-south of 2 divisions for that league.

I'm crazy too, because I keep coming back to the ACC thread. I think the fact that you referenced Suge Knight should tell me a lot about this plan. Right now, the Pac-12 is not interested in 30k stadiums that can be expanded. They are interested in expanding tv to China and landing big-time programs only. And don't get me wrong; I have NO love for the Pac-12. But it is just the reality of the situation. I think that UNLV and Nevada are even marginally bad moves for the Big East right now, so what on earth would make them good moves for one of the most stable and richest of all college football conferences?? The answer is, "not in my lifetime".....okay, back to the whipping...

 

[Marty Jackson]

said it before-schools like duke/bc/wake/pitt/cuse are not worth much. they bring down the tv$$ while teams like fsu/vt/clem are worth alot. together a crapy product and a good product make a ok product that gets you ok $$= 16mil a team acc

the b12 has a couple stud in tex/ok and other good products in wvu/okst etc. the bad are baylor/ist/kst which is alot better than the acc bad teams. so there $$ is alot better. now take those good acc teams product wise and put them with good and great b12 products.....rocket science.

If Duke, BC, wake, pitt and cuse aren't worth much, then what do we bring? I have to think Uconn's value is in line with Syracuse and Pit.
Bottom line, this group which is supposedly anchors in the ACC would be huge additions in the BE.
But every big conference has the bottom feeders: Northwestern, Purdue, Indiana, Vandy, Washington St....

 

[NHUConnfan]

I'm so glad I have ignored this board for so long...just reading two pages of this 46 page thread makes my eyes water...

 

[CTMike]

 

[junglehusky]

the end...

PSYCH!!!! It ain't ova!

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Yes they did. The B12 had 8 teams and the ACC made a defensive move. Have you noticed they could have kept adding and didn't.

North Carolina isn't leaving the ACC for 5 million dollars. Its just not happening. The ACC would certainly survive Florida State leaving. I think I've read around here how great the new Big East is and it may be the least loyal organization on the planet.

The suckiness of the Big East has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the ACC is about to get raided. Those are two independent variables. Once you get past that point, you may see what virtually everyone else sees.

 

[uconnbaseball]

The suckiness of the Big East has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the ACC is about to get raided. Those are two independent variables. Once you get past that point, you may see what virtually everyone else sees.

So, you don't feel that the academic prestige of the ACC will be enough to retain Florida State, Clemson, and the like? I suppose we'll see. Swofford's idiotic move to add Pittsburgh and Syracuse is coming back to haunt them. That hurt an already damaged fooball product and did little good for their TV contract.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

So, you don't feel that the academic prestige of the ACC will be enough to retain Florida State, Clemson, and the like? I suppose we'll see. Swofford's idiotic move to add Pittsburgh and Syracuse is coming back to haunt them. That hurt an already damaged fooball product and did little good for their TV contract.

LOLOLOLOL. Academic prestige? Really? That is a distant tertiary factor, barely even a tiebreaker. I firmly believe FSU and Clemson are gone if the offer comes. The dollar difference between the Big 12 and ACC may be as much as $10MM a year when you throw in Tier 3 rights. That is $100 million over the next 10 years. No university can pass up that kind of money. Pitt and Syracuse left for roughly even money compared to the ESPN offer on the table to the Big East.

Furthermore, the ACC, and specifically UNC and either UVA or VTech are likely targets of SEC expansion at some point. Any of those 3 are more valuable to the SEC than Missouri or Texas A&M. UVa and Maryland will always be targets of the B1G too. FSU and Clemson will never be invited to the SEC because of UF and USCe. If FSU and Clemson miss this expansion window, they could be stuck in a shrinking ACC. There is no way they will pass this up.

ESPN has not executed a new deal with the ACC yet despite cutting one with the Big 12 and financing two additions from the exact same conference. There was no rational reason for the Big 12, which has significant more complexity around the Tier 3 rights and inventory, to finish its deal before the ACC, unless ESPN thinks the ACC is about to be raided. If the ACC deal comes in at $14 to $15, where most expect it, then that is a virtual death sentence for the league.

Adding Pitt and Syracuse is looking increasingly like a stupid move by the ACC. The ACC was stuck in a lousy long-term deal and the right move was to merge into the Big East football league and the Big East's pending open negotiation window. A 21 team league that extended up and down the east coast would have been unwieldy, but would have likely gotten a monster deal. Instead, the ACC destabilized the Big East for two mediocre programs that were not capable of moving the revenue needle at all, and also saved the Big 12 by enabling it to easily pluck TCU and WVU. A merger with the Big East could have checkmated the Big 12 and forced them to add lower caliber schools, which may have caused a Texahoma exodus to the Pac 12. The ACC could have knocked out a competitor, the Big 12, and gone back to the market for a new TV deal, Instead, the sharks are circling, and ironically the Big 12 could be the league that takes the first bite.

 

[whaler11]

The suckiness of the Big East has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the ACC is about to get raided. Those are two independent variables. Once you get past that point, you may see what virtually everyone else sees.

The ACC may get raided. They have 14 teams though and can either play with 12 or take a combination of rutgers uconn and louisville. So how does the crappiness of the Big East not matter? I