OT: A real class act.....

[temery]

Did you hear the Announcers Pam Shriver and Chrissie Everett said coaches coach in matches all the tine but rarely called , I’m guessing you didn’t since you said you only watched the highlights so I think you were better off when you were stepping away cause you didn’t know what you talking about keep it up .

It's a stupid rule, but he was coaching, and admitted it. If Serena's argument was her opponent's coach was also coaching, she'd possibly have a point. But that wasn't her argument.

She said it never happened, but it did. Everything that followed, was entirely her doing.

 

[Zanzman]

My point is they don’t call it so call it all the time or get rid of the rule do we know that Osaka’s coach wasn’t coaching

 

[temery]

My point is they don’t call it so call it all the time or get rid of the rule do we know that Osaka’s coach wasn’t coaching

That's an argument for before or after the match. At face value, it appears Serena didn't care until it affected her. Somewhere, Martin Niemöller is saying "I told you so."

 

[Beemer]

Whether the umpire should have done what he did or not the fact is Serena Williams chose to respond the way she did to his actions. That is 100% on her- his actions didn't "make" her lose her ****, she chose to lose it. I've never had any sympathy with or respect for an athlete who throws a tantrum. Tantrums are for toddlers not adults.

And as for the sexism/racism bull spit, this isn't the first time a top ranked player has been penalized this way during a Grand Slam:


It is Serena Williams who owes an apology to umpire Carlos Ramos

 

[newfrontier]

Osaka clearly outplayed her, but it wasn't a good look for the US Open/game today. Unfortunate because Osaka really deserved all the accolades. Granted, if Osaka really wanted to avoid the controversy, she could have refused the Serena penalty and the powers be would have probably accepted to avoid a greater controversy.

You have got to be kidding. THERE IS NO WAY Osaka should be expected or even considered to play a part in the solution, mitigation, lessoning, or minimizing of the incident, no matter how minute. That's just ridiculous.

 

[boontonbomber]

She was losing, and was going to lose. Typical of Serena to "change the subject" in the midst of getting beaten. A real champion would consider his/her opponent, and show respect for that opponent. That never crosses Serena's mind; it's always been all about her. I found her weak attempt at sportsmanship during the awards ceremony disgusting. That the best woman player of all time would conduct herself this way when she's getting bested is sad, both for her and for tennis. What is , perhaps, even sadder is the support she has received after conducting herself the way she did.

 

[Beemer]

Serena's U.S. Open Tirade Creates A Challenge For Nike

 

[Bronx23]

I'm not a big tennis fan by any means but I recognize Serena's greatness. As a passive observer, I wanted to see her win. Sort of like rooting for Tiger, although I'm not a golf fan, either. Serena had a right to be angry, I guess, since rules are not always rules. I get that. But in my profession we teach children and adults that sometimes you just have to walk away and "let go". This is not any easy thing to do but had Serena just accepted the warning, like it or not, we wouldn't be having this discussion today. However, she exacerbated the situation not once, but twice, resulting in the loss of a game. In a NYT article this morning Naomi states that she was confused about what was going on and was surprised to see the 5-3 score in her favor following Serena's meltdown. To expect a young shy, relatively inexperienced 20-year-old to have requested the judge change the score is just ridiculous. As a passive observer, I'm left with the image of a young champion in tears, apologizing to the booing crowd for beating her idol. Really? To Serena's credit, she tried to calm the crowd down but she bears some responsibility for its actions. A joyous moment stolen from a young player. The crowd booing as she tried to hide her tears with a towel. This is what I'll remember.

I truly love your points and often to avoid things getting worse it is best to just walk away.
How you will remember this I fully understand and feel and felt the horribleness of that for Naomi, who absolutely should have been able to cherish maybe the best moment of her life.
My only difference, is there are times for a variety of reasons, that one can not or will not do that.
As I write my comments and try and express my feelings I'm constantly reminded about the general lack of following rules, decorum, swallowing things in our society today. Some of this needs to be looked at through our leaders and the manner in which they behave and are role models. But I'm also struck about the unfairness of outcomes as some go high and others go low and who wins. And I'm not talking about the importance of a tennis match or basketball game.
But what's very telling and very obvious to me, is who is losing?
If one sometimes continues to walk away, do the classy, gracious thing, swallow it, act like the adult in the room, there might be little or nothing left WORTH standing up for.
I am not being overly dramatic! Not being able to be political here, I must state it in general oblique terms.
We are in a time where one needs to decide when to stand up for what they feel is right! Maybe in this case you see it differently than I do. But we don't have the luxury of always walking away and taking the high road.
Again your comments touched me with your thoughtfulness.
Bronx23

 

[BigBird]

I have witnessed (once in person) several prior Serena outbursts where I would have agreed with the negative views of her being expressed here but not this time.

First, I think chair umpire showed extremely bad judgment to give official warning to Serena on the coaching violation regardless of what Patrick Mouratoglou, her coach, admittedly was trying to signal to her because this was second set of a grand slam final and this violation is exceedingly rarely called even though coaching of this type is exceedingly common.

Second, chair umpire showed even worse judgment in taking away a game from Serena that thereby left her opponent one game away from winning the championship where Serena did not even use foul language.

Third, I will add that, in my view and it’s a view which I understand is not universal, there is no way a male player of a stature in the game equivalent to Serena Williams (and that really means only Federer) would have been formally warned for the coaching violation, much less had the penultimate game of a grand slam final awarded to his opponent for a verbal outburst that did not include any swearing.

Fourth, I think Serena showed great control in not simply walking away after the tournament referee refused to overrule the chair umpire decision to take away a game from her particularly when apparently many in her box were urging her to do just that.

Last, Serena showed class and dignity at the awards ceremony by telling the crowd to stop booing and to celebrate Naomi Osaka especially when, whatever one’s view of the merits, Serena clearly continued to believe in her own mind she had been unfairly and inequitably treated.

VH, you speak my thoughts. Thank you. There was little to no evidence that Serena even saw whatever signal was being sent to her. And if you think pro tennis doesn’t have a history of discrimination against women and minorities, please think again. I’m not particularly a Serena fan. But this referee’s actions were egregious.

 

[SVCBeercats]

So frustration in here game by breaking a racket is bad sportsmanship. Really[/QUOTE

Apparently not in this day and age.

 

[newfrontier]

I have witnessed (once in person) several prior Serena outbursts where I would have agreed with the negative views of her being expressed here but not this time.

First, I think chair umpire showed extremely bad judgment to give official warning to Serena on the coaching violation regardless of what Patrick Mouratoglou, her coach, admittedly was trying to signal to her because this was second set of a grand slam final and this violation is exceedingly rarely called even though coaching of this type is exceedingly common.

Second, chair umpire showed even worse judgment in taking away a game from Serena that thereby left her opponent one game away from winning the championship where Serena did not even use foul language.

Third, I will add that, in my view and it’s a view which I understand is not universal, there is no way a male player of a stature in the game equivalent to Serena Williams (and that really means only Federer) would have been formally warned for the coaching violation, much less had the penultimate game of a grand slam final awarded to his opponent for a verbal outburst that did not include any swearing.

Fourth, I think Serena showed great control in not simply walking away after the tournament referee refused to overrule the chair umpire decision to take away a game from her particularly when apparently many in her box were urging her to do just that.

Last, Serena showed class and dignity at the awards ceremony by telling the crowd to stop booing and to celebrate Naomi Osaka especially when, whatever one’s view of the merits, Serena clearly continued to believe in her own mind she had been unfairly and inequitably treated.

I disagree with your attempt at spin ....yeah, redirect the blame toward the chair umpire who was doing his job and is reputable, honored, and very experienced. [I highly doubt the umpire was being consciously sexist toward Serena...but I can't speak to his inner thoughts, subconscious biases, leanings if any, etc.. In any event, Serena's on court words and behavior in the US Open finals is not the manner, method, time, or place to address the sexism issue]

Just because Serena behaved more civilized at the awards ceremony (and post match press conference) doesn't change the horrible things she did during the match. Serena was so wrong in so many ways.

Just because Serena didn't use one or more swear words doesn't lessen what she did. Her behavior and overreaction was incredibly unprofessional and way over the top, and not just because of the racket slam. Her highly aggressive, prolonged, intense, berating and bullying of the chair umpire was the worst I've seen in a long while. Talk about poor sportsmanship....wow. She made the finals all about her and tried to use the sexism card, rather than allowing the event to be about the amazing performance of Osaka which should have been 100% of the story. She selfishly denied Osaka the right to be properly honored in what should only have been a hugely positive, life changing event for the young woman. Serena did much more than taint the event and the memory of it forever, she soiled it and spoiled it with her lack of self-control. I feel very bad for Osaka who is the BIGGEST AND MOST INNOCENT victim here.

 

[FridaFriend]

Seattle is lucky to be playing in the finals. If Sue Bird had been treated the way Serena was by the judge, she would have been assessed a technical foul or tossed in the 4th quarter of the final game with Phoenix. She certainly gave the referees cause to penalize her. Diana Taurasi asked the referees why Sue Bird was getting special treatment.

Just as they let Seattle and Phoenix settle the series on the court and ignored Sue's emotional outburst, they should have let Serena and Naomi settle it on the court as well.

 

[JustinesGuy]

Fined 17,000 for her role model behavior.

Well done

 

[Bama fan]

Playing best three out of five sets would be to Serena's advantage.

I t probably would be to her advantage. But the point is moot as she does not set the rules of women's tennis. the whole thing was a mess, and took away from the integrity of the match and the sport. Unfortunate and avoidable. The kid played well and deserved the win.

 

[reno tony]

Has Serena apologized to her fans and all the young girls who look up to her for her outburst? If she does, I will give her back some character points, but if not, she lost a lot with that disgraceful action. Congratulations to Naomi Osaka for her win.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Andre Agassi defaulted from two matches, one for fewer violations than Serena received, both times by male umpires.

Tennis: Agassi disqualified as umpire strikes back

Agassi Ousted After Obscenities

 

[temery]

Well, you are right in that you don't know me but you took it upon yourself to try and label me-- "those of your bent"-- anyway. Not cool.

There wasn't one thing that happened in that match that had anything to do with Serena's gender, or race for that matter since you brought it up. She simply acted like a petulant and entitled child before dragging out the gender card. A great example for girls everywhere would've been to channel her anger over the coaching calls--admitted by her coach, incidentally--and compete like mad for the title. Instead she sulked, complained, vented, and tried to make herself a total victim in an absurd fashion. Sorry if that take bothers you.

Agreed. But if they aren't going to get rid of the no coaching rule, they should at least punish the coach, not the player. Throw him out.

My guess is the rule is changed by the end of the year. My 2nd guess is everyone writing about the rule change will call Serena for a quote. 3rd guess - they won't be able to print what she says.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Agreed. But if they aren't going to get rid of the no coaching rule, they should at least punish the coach, not the player. Throw him out.

I'm okay with that, and I also understand Serena's being upset. Had she made her point(s) without both getting personal and going on endlessly she probably would've been fine. She let everything get to her badly and turned it into a Williams vs Ramos thing.

And for anyone interested, a former chair umpire who once penalized McEnroe backs Ramos.

It is Serena Williams who owes an apology to umpire Carlos Ramos

 

[Beemer]

Some people on other message boards I follow have suggested this meltdown was a deliberate tactic on Willliams' part to throw Osaka off her game. If it was it didn't work out the way Serena intended, Osaka kept her cool and kept playing her game.

 

[eebmg]

USTA has fined Serena 17K for her multiple infractions. Billy Jean King jumping on the double standard platform.

Serena Williams fined $17,000 for violations during US Open final

 

[oldude]

My 2 cents:

Osaka was the better player and deserved to win and Serena overreacted to the penalty.

Beyond that, after the match, there was a virtual “who’s who” of elite tennis players (Evert, both McEnroes, Roddick, King and many others) who were incredulous that the referee penalized Serena in a major championship for receiving coaching, which players agree goes on all the time; and also agreed that men get away with far worse than calling the referee a “thief”.

A number of players indicated that they had done far worse and received nothing more than a “soft” warning from a referee, advising them not to do it again or they would lose a point.

I have no idea why the referee in question felt as if he had to penalize Serena when her coach gestured with his hands that she should come to the net more. It seemed like a pretty innocuous gesture imo, and frankly, when Serena tried it, Osaka hammered several passing shots right by her. He could have issued a warning, and that might have been the end of it.

In baseball, basketball and football, I’ve seen countless coaches and players go off on umpires and officials, including the Little Italian guy, saying far worse things than Serena. In most instances, a good official will first ignore the comments, secondly warn the offender, and then, and only then, T them up, penalize them or send them to the showers.

IMO, the referee was wrong not to initially issue a warning either for the coaching infraction or Serena’s comment to him. Serena’s overreaction was also wrong - and, as we all know two wrongs ........

 

[calpedaler]

My 2 cents:

Osaka was the better player and deserved to win and Serena overreacted to the penalty.

Beyond that, after the match, there was a virtual “who’s who” of elite tennis players (Evert, both McEnroes, Roddick, King and many others) who were incredulous that the referee penalized Serena in a major championship for receiving coaching, which players agree goes on all the time; and also agreed that men get away with far worse than calling the referee a “thief”.

A number of players indicated that they had done far worse and received nothing more than a “soft” warning from a referee, advising them not to do it again or they would lose a point.

I have no idea why the referee in question felt as if he had to penalize Serena when her coach gestured with his hands that she should come to the net more. It seemed like a pretty innocuous gesture imo, and frankly, when Serena tried it, Osaka hammered several passing shots right by her. He could have issued a warning, and that might have been the end of it.

In baseball, basketball and football, I’ve seen countless coaches and players go off on umpires and officials, including the Little Italian guy, saying far worse things than Serena. In most instances, a good official will first ignore the comments, secondly warn the offender, and then, and only then, T them up, penalize them or send them to the showers.

IMO, the referee was wrong not to initially issue a warning either for the coaching infraction or Serena’s comment to him. Serena’s overreaction was also wrong - and, as we all know two wrongs ...

He did give a warning for coaching. That started the progression.

 

[oldude]

He did give a warning for coaching. That started the progression.

I should have been clearer in my post. Initially, the referee issued Serena a warning for coaching that resulted in a code violation, the first of three, that ultimately lead to a game point awarded to Osaka. My argument is that the referee could have chosen to issue a “soft” warning for the coaching infraction as well as being called a theif, in an effort to diffuse the situation. Both incidents were relatively minor imo. The racquet destruction was pretty flagrant, and impossible to ignore.

Serena was pretty wound up, she was losing and maybe a soft warning in either instance wouldn’t have made a difference. But maybe it would have, and today we could have simply celebrated the emergence of one great young champion along with the remarkable effort and perseverance of the greatest women’s tennis player in history, rather than discussing an unfortunate series of incidents that overshadowed two remarkable tennis players.

 

[Carnac]

Without reflecting on the events of the day, I was very happy Osaka win the match. I've been following the Williams sisters from the beginning. Yesterday belonged to Osaka. It wasn't given to her, she outplayed her opponent.

It was NOT Serena's day. Once the chair umpire got in her head, she was done. She was so mad and pissed off at him, she could not concentrate on the match, which is why she lost in straight sets, 6-2, 6-4.

 

[Siestakeyfan]

Your all right just take emotions out of sports just play like robots .thats what I want to see

Umpire is at fault !

 

[temery]

I should have been clearer in my post. Initially, the referee issued Serena a warning for coaching that resulted in a code violation, the first of three, that ultimately lead to a game point awarded to Osaka. My argument is that the referee could have chosen to issue a “soft” warning for the coaching infraction as well as being called a theif, in an effort to diffuse the situation. Both incidents were relatively minor imo. The racquet destruction was pretty flagrant, and impossible to ignore.

Serena was pretty wound up, she was losing and maybe a soft warning in either instance wouldn’t have made a difference. But maybe it would have, and today we could have simply celebrated the emergence of one great young champion along with the remarkable effort and perseverance of the greatest women’s tennis player in history, rather than discussing an unfortunate series of incidents that overshadowed two remarkable tennis players.

The problem with a soft warning to a player is the coach wouldn't know unless told.

The only rational solution is to get rid of the rule.

 

[meyers7]

Beyond that, after the match, there was a virtual “who’s who” of elite tennis players (Evert, both McEnroes, Roddick, King and many others) who were incredulous that the referee penalized Serena in a major championship for receiving coaching, which players agree goes on all the time; and also agreed that men get away with far worse than calling the referee a “thief”.

There really isn't anything worse than calling a referee "a thief". One is in essence calling them a "cheat". Calling them incompetent, and idiot, blind, a jerk, etc. is one thing, but to question their integrity is a big old line to cross. In some sports that's a direct dismissal right there.

 

[oldude]

There really isn't anything worse than calling a referee "a thief". One is in essence calling them a "cheat". Calling them incompetent, and idiot, blind, a jerk, etc. is one thing, but to question their integrity is a big old line to cross. In some sports that's a direct dismissal right there.

I played and coached for many years, and believe me their are far worse things you can call a referee. In A League of Their Own I believe the worst word started with a “c”.

 

[oldude]

The problem with a soft warning to a player is the coach wouldn't know unless told.

The only rational solution is to get rid of the rule.

No, the referee could announce over the loudspeaker a general warning, “There is to be no coaching from the players box”, just like she does when the fans get a little rambunctious when the players are trying to serve. At the same time the referee should call in both players and advise them of the soft warning.

Think about how many times you’ve watched a basketball game that’s starting to get a little out of control when the refs warn the players and then call in both coaches to reiterate their warning. If that doesn’t work, they start T-ing people up.

 

[eebmg]

Curious to see how the ESPN coverage analyzed it. Took until 8:20 on Golic & Wingo to discuss since Week 1 football dominated everything.
I generally like Golic and Wingo in discussing matters of this type because I feel they are very even handed and I think their discussion was generally spot on.

The points they made (very close to Patrick McEnroe) are as follows

1) The ref had every right to give the warning for coaching but where the ref really mishandled it was when she started to say. "I am not a cheater. I rather lose than cheat", the ref should have moderated this by saying. "I am not accusing you of cheating. I simply need to react when I see questionable behavior from your coaching box. This is only a warning to them, not you'). I agree strongly with this statement.

2) The game penalty should only have been made under the most extreme abuse and the language (by itself) was not sufficient to warrant that. I agree in general with this statement.

3) Serena plays a big part in the escalation of events. In their words, Serena should have been able to control her emotions and "let it go". Basically, unlike most of the abuse on the mens's side where they curse the officials out in language that can be harsher then Serena's, they do not generally persist over multiple points or games. They curse the official out, then they get back to the business of tennis. I generally agree with this statement although it should be pointed out that there can never be a scientific formula for what is too much and different officials may have different levels of tolerance. Welcome to the human condition and consequences for your actions.

4) No real mention of the gender inequity accusations. Agree that this is not a serious (i.e systemic) issue.

5) Saved the best for last. Naomi handled herself beautifully and was by far the better player. She earned the championship and it is a shame her victory should have this blemish on it. Totally agree and reiterate that her performance under such difficult and I may add hostile conditions makes the achievement even more impressive.