meyers7
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ummm a couple things. Moore isn't really known as a defensive stopper either. Also tough defense and UNC don't really go together.
A Little OT: An important Admission from Ariel Massengale
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Fightin Choke
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While it may seem surprising, UNC was a good defensive team last season, and Diamond was probably a good part of the reason why. Last season, UNC ranked 23rd in the nation in points per possession (PPP), which is a defensive metric that removes pace so we can see how effective a defense really is. (Not surprisingly, UConn led the country in defensive PPP, and it really wasn't close. While some of their huge lead is attributable to their relatively weak SOS (strength of schedule), UConn clearly had the best defense last season. Here are the defensive PPP of some top teams:
1. 0.67 UConn
7. 0.79 Louisville, South Carolina
11. 0.81 Rutgers, Notre Dame
15. 0.82 West Virginia, Texas A&M, Baylor, Texas
23. 0.83 UNC, Georgia, Tennessee
While UNC had a helter skelter offense, their defense was actually quite good, especially when one considers that the freshman class received a ton of minutes and defensive concepts take a while to learn. As for offensive PPP:
1. 1.16 UConn
2. 1.13 Notre Dame
3. 1.09 Maryland, Baylor
5. 1.08 Stanford
7. 1.07 Duke
8. 1.06 NC State
11. 1.05 South Carolina, DePaul
15. 1.04 Louisville, Tennessee, Nebraska, Iowa St.
25. 1.02 West Virginia, Michigan
30. 1.01 Oregon
36. 1.00 Oklahoma, Villanova, Kentucky
48. 0.99 UNC, GTech, Syracuse, Michigan St., Oregon St.
North Carolina certainly wasn't terrible on offense, but they were stronger defensively than they were offensively. As Diamond develops, I anticipate her being an absolute terror on defense. She is tall and very mobile, so it really will come down to the coaching she receives and the effort she extends to that aspect of her game.
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I thought I was the only one who admired her defensive ability even while at UNC...I mean I'm no hater....the girl will be good on BOTH sides of the ball! But hey....that's just my opinion!
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All this done by mostly FRESHMAN! But they don't hear you tho....
meyers7
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It seems our opinion of a "good defensive team" differs. UNC is certainly not known for their defense.
UNC is not in the top 50 in ppg, 36th in FG%, 29 in 3 pt FG%. Not really outstanding. But if you think that's good, I just have a bit higher standard. (probably a UCONN thing)
She may become a good defensive player, but as of now, nothing special. At least nothing that she's "known for". But we are not gonna know for 2-3 years.
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Ha. Well the the new sheriff is 0-2 against Holly. As a former AA point guard herself, I'm pretty sure Holly isn't scared either.
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Was anyone really KNOWN for their defensive prowess their freshman year of college? I think where Ariel was getting at was DDs athleticism on the defensive end. I don't see anyone else in the country that can match her athleticism on the defensive end, combined with her height besides Stewie. I understood where Ariel was coming from even without my orange colored glasses on. But that's just me.
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It hit me that Tenn fans were just as gaga 4 years ago. I thought it might be enlightening to compare last year ....
Simmons 28.1 MPG __41.6 FG%__ 83.2 FT% __ 36.0 3PT% __ 2.7 RPG __ 2,3 APG __ 0.9 A/T ........... 16.5 PPG
DeShields 27.9 MPG__ 42.6 FG%__ 77.6 FT%__ 27.9 3PT%__ 5.4 RPG__ 2.6 APG__ 0.8 A/T ................ 18.0 PPG
Simmons was criticized for being a mediocre gunner. DD's numbers tell the same story.
That extra point and a half will be decisive. LOL
Simmons 28.1 MPG __41.6 FG%__ 83.2 FT% __ 36.0 3PT% __ 2.7 RPG __ 2,3 APG __ 0.9 A/T ........... 16.5 PPG
DeShields 27.9 MPG__ 42.6 FG%__ 77.6 FT%__ 27.9 3PT%__ 5.4 RPG__ 2.6 APG__ 0.8 A/T ................ 18.0 PPG
Simmons was criticized for being a mediocre gunner. DD's numbers tell the same story.
That extra point and a half will be decisive. LOL
Fightin Choke
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Your idea of the stats that define defensive excellence are a bit dated. While each of the stats you cited (ppg allowed, FG% allowed, 3FG allowed) tell part of the picture, defensive points per possession (PPP) is far more inclusive. Defensive PPP include those stats, but also factors in the pace of the game, rebounding, turnovers forced, and points surrendered at the FT line. That's why UNC had the 23rd best defense in the country last season, despite playing what Sagarin considered the 6th toughest schedule in the country. For example, you argued that UNC was not even top 50 in points against. In fact, they were 130th in the nation, but that's in part due to the fact that their pace is the 19th fastest in the nation, so opposing offenses had more trips down the floor. Of course their own offense benefitted as well if you only consider PPG numbers (UNC is ranked 21st in PPG, but their offensive PPP is 43rd).
UNC shined in defensive statistics that you omitted. They were 7th in steals/game and 23rd in turnovers forced. If the opponent cannot get off a shot, who cares the percentage they shoot? They were 37th in rebounds/game. When you combine all the stats, UNC opponents scored an average of 0.83 points/trip down the floor, which was 23rd best in the nation last season. If you do not consider that a good defense (23rd out of 347 teams, which is top 7%), then I guess the being a UConn fan really has destroyed your perspective.
ctfjr
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Simmons never met a shot she didn't like.
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Didn't Tennessee have the best back or front court in the country last year or something like that? I feel like the teams that are always chirping about how great they are also are the ones that end up watching the championship game on TV.
HuskyNan
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Kids are asked a question on how their team will be this year and they try to answer positively. What are they supposed to say? UConn players are given instructions on how to address the press and I imagine players on all other top teams are as well. It's the players' version of coachspeak, not chirping (warning-explicit language at this link).
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I love the downplay of Diamonds game. She played half the year with a broken hand and just continued to get better and better. 30 and 38 point performances at Duke and at NC State and was exceptional in her first post season.
But this season without Diamond or Mercedes still has us crazy Tennessee fans excited. I can't wait to see Jannah get in a game.
But this season without Diamond or Mercedes still has us crazy Tennessee fans excited. I can't wait to see Jannah get in a game.
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I think you are correct. At least it's a "different" perspective. And we kinda like it that way. We do not measure our team against the 347 others.
DaddyChoc
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who is known for their "good defense" besides Kelly, MoJett (Stokes blocks)... Angel was good/great but everyone focused on her pouting (seems like Diamond gets the Angel treatment here).
Diamond's defense is no worse than anyone else IMO. UConn looks great as a "team"!
RadyLady
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Wow - I did not know the use of that word in that context.
I am not sure I should thank you for the link. 
When I use chirped or chirping in a sentence, rest assured I will not mean it in that way. {shudder}
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HuskyNan
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I tried to find a more PG rated site but the Urban Dictionary is more concise. Should have put a warning on it - sorry.Wow - I did not know the use of that word in that context.
When I use chirped or chirping in a sentence, rest assured I will not mean it in that way. {shudder}
Icebear
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Angel had returned to those issues early in her pro career.
Icebear
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Chirping is the new version trash talking. Language is fluid.
meyers7
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IDK, they still keep score the same way.
That's what I said. We have a different perspective on "good".
And the point was that UNC is not known for their defense. i.e. people saying, "oh UNC? Yea, they're a really good defensive team." That's not what comes to mind. You think people should think that, I wouldn't necessarily agree, but either way, they don't. And further back point, DD is the same.
meyers7
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That was pretty much my point, DD is nothing special defensively.
DaddyChoc
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very few are... very
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meyers7
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Well personally I hope you are let down.
(but that's just my UCONN fanness talking)I think DD will be a very good player. "Really, really good" in Geno Speak. IF Russell comes back and with DD, that might be enough to get TN over the hump to be a FF team. But TN has to get over that hump first before they can think about NC. And in the 2015-16 season, you lose Burdick, Massengale and Harrison. While UCONN will have Stewart and Jefferson as Seniors. And ND is probably going to be the #2 team (Loyd, Mabrey, Reimer, Allen, Turner,
damn) and/or S. Carolina by then. And the landscape could still change depending on where Ogunbowale and Brown end up. So while your optimism is expected, UCONN has other "worries" besides TN for the next couple years.
RadyLady
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What I see as I read the thread is that a star player(s) is/are singled out as the one or ones to make a difference between a final four team or a team that goes home, i.e. as successful year vs an average or poor year (for elite teams) .
How many times has opponents faced UConn with a stellar player in the line up only to find that that player is shut down and the opponents is going home with a loss in their column? With the exception of few, the answer is many, many times. Or the opposite is true, they let the "star" player shoot to their hearts content, and shut down everyone else. Either way, UConn wins. Everyone is expected to play defense, and on the other side of the court, they read the opponents defense and set and run a play to score. We have our stars for sure, yet we always have scoring options...
Something I will never forget - back in 2008, UConn was playing their second to last conference game against DePaul. Excluding exhibition play where they had lost to the national team, they had had only one loss on the season thus far, a 73-71 game against Rutgers. In the seconds before the DePaul game was over, UConn was down by 1 point. Geno called a time out, and on a team that had Rene Montgomery, Megan Gardler, Tina Charles and a freshman Maya Moore, Geno instead looked to his senior point guard Ketia Swanier, and drew up a play for her which was executed to perfection as she ran the floor and scored the winning bucket as time ran out. It was brilliant, no one expected her to be the one to take the last shot.
Options
BTW, Rutgers was the last game on the schedule that year, and UConn avenged their loss with a 20 point thumping, 66 - 46.
Speaking of defense, Ketia finished her career as the only player in UConn history to rank among the top 10 career leaders in games played, assists and steals. She also won the Big East 6th man of the year award. I think that she may have played a little defense from time to time.
Until Tennessee gets away from depending heavily on their "stars" and looks to play team ball, they may do fairly well, but they will have a hard time achieving their goals.
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Precisely!
cockhrnleghrn
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I guess we'll just have to see what happens at the CLAW on February 23rd.Ha. Well the the new sheriff is 0-2 against Holly. As a former AA point guard herself, I'm pretty sure Holly isn't scared either.
triaddukefan
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Ha. Well the the new sheriff is 0-2 against Holly. As a former AA point guard herself, I'm pretty sure Holly isn't scared either.
A NC resident reading a back and forth between fans of teams from neighboring (and inferior) States on a UCONN message board.
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