A Little OT: An important Admission from Ariel Massengale | The Boneyard

A Little OT: An important Admission from Ariel Massengale

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About Diamond DeShields:
''She's one of the best players in the country,'' said Massengale, who says she's back at 100 percent. ''To have someone like that to practice against, if you can score on her and make plays against her, then I have no doubt we can do it on anyone else in the country.''

Really?
 
About Diamond DeShields:
''She's one of the best players in the country,'' said Massengale, who says she's back at 100 percent. ''To have someone like that to practice against, if you can score on her and make plays against her, then I have no doubt we can do it on anyone else in the country.''

Really?
I think Stewie, Kiah, and Mo might have something to say about that.
 
About Diamond DeShields:
''She's one of the best players in the country,'' said Massengale, who says she's back at 100 percent. ''To have someone like that to practice against, if you can score on her and make plays against her, then I have no doubt we can do it on anyone else in the country.''

Really?
Yea, I'm not sure DD is known for her defensive prowess, is she? Offensively, she's a handful, but I don't remember her being a defensive stopper.
 
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Yea, I'm not sure DD is known for her defensive prowess, is she? Offensively, she's a handful, but I don't remember her being a defensive stopper.

Massengale says the UT players will no longer follow "their own agenda" and will now listen to Warlick. I guess that means they are going to buy into the concept of TEAM- something Geno/CD have taught and insisted upon from day 1. We shall see whether DD has any interest in buying into that philosophy.
 
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No wonder none of these players are at UConn. If you put your agenda first and don't listen to your coaches, you won't be playing for Geno. No way.
 
Yea, I'm not sure DD is known for her defensive prowess, is she? Offensively, she's a handful, but I don't remember her being a defensive stopper.
I said before when transfer speculation was ongoing - I think DD as a practice player is a mixed bag because she is such a unique talent - defensively you will not have to defend many if any players with similar games, and offensively ...? If she can truly sublimate her game to the team concepts. I think it will be a hard year for her and for her teammates.
 
If you put your agenda first and don't listen to your coaches, you won't be playing for Geno. No way.
Ms. Massengale no doubt meant to credit Holly Warlick for having been right, but one can also see in her words an unintended indictment of the coach for not having a firm grip on the controls.
 
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About Diamond DeShields:
''She's one of the best players in the country,'' said Massengale, who says she's back at 100 percent. ''To have someone like that to practice against, if you can score on her and make plays against her, then I have no doubt we can do it on anyone else in the country.''

Really?
Diamond is one of the best players. She was national Freshman of the year.
 
Ms. Massengale no doubt meant to credit Holly Warlick for having been right, but one can also see in her words an unintended indictment of the coach for not having a firm grip on the controls.

Or the seniors didn't quite accept Holly as the head coach:

"It is going to be an adjustment, especially for the seniors because Pat was involved here and then they've had to see me go from an assistant coach to a head coach," Warlick said. " ... That transition, I think, at first was a little challenging but I think now they're comfortable. They understand what we want to do."
 
Ms. Massengale no doubt meant to credit Holly Warlick for having been right, but one can also see in her words an unintended indictment of the coach for not having a firm grip on the controls.
I believe that Holly was right about the difficulties of going from Assistant Coach to Head Coach of the same team. Do we have any examples of an Assistant Coach successfully taking a team over from a Head Coach? ( I don't know if I worded that correctly, but I think you know what I mean.)
 
I believe that Holly was right about the difficulties of going from Assistant Coach to Head Coach of the same team. Do we have any examples of an Assistant Coach successfully taking a team over from a Head Coach? ( I don't know if I worded that correctly, but I think you know what I mean.)

Well, uh, there's a guy at UConn named Kevin Ollie who's done that pretty well.
 
Well, uh, there's a guy at UConn named Kevin Ollie who's done that pretty well.
Good one. Kevin Ollie played in the NBA for many years, and earned the players respect for that. I don't know Holly's basketball background, but she was an assistant for much longer than Ollie was.
 
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No wonder none of these players are at UConn. If you put your agenda first and don't listen to your coaches, you won't be playing for Geno. No way.
They wouldn't last the summer without listening and DOING what Shea and Marissa told them, not to mention Chris or Geno. Holly was a bad choice to replace Pat. Shea, Marissa, Morgan Valley, people with grit and knowledge . Geno has cleaned house with less than effective players (johnson,engeln, walker, and others) and it worked well for him. He replaced them with kids that worked and played hard.
 
Good one. Kevin Ollie played in the NBA for many years, and earned the players respect for that. I don't know Holly's basketball background, but she was an assistant for much longer than Ollie was.
It's not about your resume--it's about your personality and abilities. Geno never played in the Wnba or Nba is there a better coach anywhere?? You've got to MAKE your players listen and do as you say--no molly coddling, fair, but tough love works well. The kids need to know whose in charge (basketball or in the home)--apparently the inmates were running the institution in Tenn.
 
. Geno has cleaned house with less than effective players (johnson,engeln, walker, and others) and it worked well for him. He replaced them with kids that worked and played hard.

I'm not sure that the above statement is completely consistent with the facts as they are understood.
At least, the this is an over-simplification.
 
I believe that Holly was right about the difficulties of going from Assistant Coach to Head Coach of the same team. Do we have any examples of an Assistant Coach successfully taking a team over from a Head Coach? ( I don't know if I worded that correctly, but I think you know what I mean.)
George Siefert won two Super Bowls after taking over the 49ers from Bill Walsh
 
I believe that Holly was right about the difficulties of going from Assistant Coach to Head Coach of the same team. Do we have any examples of an Assistant Coach successfully taking a team over from a Head Coach? ( I don't know if I worded that correctly, but I think you know what I mean.)

rbny1 cited Kevin Ollie as an assistant who stepped up and did well. But there are many instances where it didn't work. In football, the immortal Vince Lombardi was succeeded by an easily forgotten Phil Bengtson and Ray Hanley succeeded Bill Parshell as coach of the Giants. There also was some fellow named Guthridge who tried in vain to fill Dean Smith's shoes at UNC.

This thread contains a lot of sniping at Ariel and DD that I think is unnecessary and unjustified. The linked article was in the tradition of pre-season optimism that is typical of coaches and returning players. The intent was to stimulate the Tennessee fan base, but then the Law of Unintended Consequences kicked in as some Boneyarders couldn't resist putting lumps of coal in Holly and Ariel's stockings.
 
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rbny1 cited Kevin Ollie as an assistant who stepped up and did well. But there are many instances where it didn't work. In football, the immortal Vince Lombardi was succeeded by an easily forgotten Phil Bengtson and Ray Hanley succeeded Bill Parshell as coach of the Giants. There also was some fellow named Guthridge who tried in vain to fill Dean Smith's shoes at UNC.

This thread contains a lot of sniping at Ariel and DD that I think is unnecessary and unjustified. The linked article was in the tradition of pre-season optimism that is typical of coaches and returning players. The intent was to stimulate the Tennessee fan base, but then the Law of Unintended Consequences kicked in as some Boneyarders couldn't resist putting lumps of coal in Holly and Ariel's stockings.
As UCONN fans these are our inalienable rights. And the 20 minutes of video present SO many opportunities - this thread could go on for a long time without running out of fresh material.
 
Actually, Guthridge took UNC to the Final Four twice in three seasons as head coach. The bigger issue was the man who replaced Guthridge, Matt Doherty.
Doherty was so bad he got demoted to SMU...
 
Talk is cheap, but this is a good sign for Tenn. PHS' "way" has been stale and dated for years. If the program is truly ready to put it in the rear-view they might be OK.
 
Sounds like Ariel learned a lot sitting on the bench next to the coach...
I think she did get too see things more from the coaches view. I think that will help her this year. Before the injury she was leading the team in scoring.
 
Diamond is one of the best players. She was national Freshman of the year.

I am not saying she is not one of the best players. She wasn't national Freshman of the year because of her defense. The coach is implying no one is a better defender than Diamond. To that I say hogwash.
 
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What we heard yesterday was typical preseason happy talk with a little extra from Massengale and Holly hinting that the coach and some of the upperclassmen weren't always on the same page. All one had to do was watch the Elite 8 debacle against Maryland to realize all was not well with the lady vols. This senior class doesn't want to be another to graduate without a trip to the final four. We'll see.
 
I think she did get too see things more from the coaches view. I think that will help her this year. Before the injury she was leading the team in scoring.
I know she was needed on the floor, but it's hard to help but wonder how much a freshman year without all the pressure and a chance to talk to the coach during games might have helped her...
 
rbny1 cited Kevin Ollie as an assistant who stepped up and did well. But there are many instances where it didn't work. In football, the immortal Vince Lombardi was succeeded by an easily forgotten Phil Bengtson and Ray Hanley succeeded Bill Parshell as coach of the Giants. There also was some fellow named Guthridge who tried in vain to fill Dean Smith's shoes at UNC.

This thread contains a lot of sniping at Ariel and DD that I think is unnecessary and unjustified. The linked article was in the tradition of pre-season optimism that is typical of coaches and returning players. The intent was to stimulate the Tennessee fan base, but then the Law of Unintended Consequences kicked in as some Boneyarders couldn't resist putting lumps of coal in Holly and Ariel's stockings.
Mmm, hard to spin "we didn't listen to our head coach for the last couple years and instead followed our own agenda." I agree with JS that it is an incredibly damning statement, regardless of how it was intended.
 
Talk is cheap, but this is a good sign for Tenn. PHS' "way" has been stale and dated for years. If the program is truly ready to put it in the rear-view they might be OK.

IMO that is still a big "if". As long as Pat Summitt is alive she & the memories of what her teams achieved will dominate the program.
 
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This has been an interesting thread to read. I think Holly was the perfect replacement for Pat. Two season's under her belt and the talk is basically telling us that the transition to being completely Holly's program is finally here. Holly knows what she is doing and Tennessee isn't going anywhere and is holding strong even with a big change/transition post legendary coach.
 
This has been an interesting thread to read. I think Holly was the perfect replacement for Pat. Two season's under her belt and the talk is basically telling us that the transition to being completely Holly's program is finally here. Holly knows what she is doing and Tennessee isn't going anywhere and is holding strong even with a big change/transition post legendary coach.

I think the issue with Holly Warlick as the head coach is that she has yet to leave her own definitive mark on the program. Replacing a legendary coach is always difficult. Replacing a true icon of the sport who is even famous and renown in the non-sports world is that much tougher.

But after two years, I have yet to see what Coach Warlick's trademarks and signature styles are. For example, does she prefer an offense predicated on the pick-and-roll? Does she use a lot of backscreening to make lanes open for cutters? Is she implementing a four-out, one-in motion offense, with a lot of freedom for her forwards on the perimeter? Does she employ box-and-one sets on defense or have a modified zone, or does she always play man-to-man?

Admittedly, I have only seen Tennessee play nine or ten times over the past two seasons. But it looks as if Coach Warlick's "style" is simply a rehashing of Pat Summitt's style in her later years:
- Give the ball to the star player (or designated star player)
- Let that star player (or designated star player) attempt to create
- If she creates for herself or others and it works, great
- If not, the post players need to hit the glass

To this casual observer, it seems as if Coach Warlick's best play is the offensive rebound.

Also, it seems as if the post players (Harrison and Graves) do not have any range on their shots. They are both extremely effective around the basket, but they do not have consistent mid-range/foul line jumpers. This makes it difficult for the two to play together, in that it limits offensive movement. It would be good to see one of the two developing range more so they can work a high-low, be the recipient in the pick-and-pop, etc.

Against elite teams that can match TN's size or switch players quickly, it becomes a problem, as TN is not a good three-point shooting team. Don't get me wrong, the percentages are really good (36.0 percent last season). But Tennessee only made 4.6 three point shots per game last year - that ranked 232nd in the country. And while TN got to the line a lot, its 71 percent from the charity stripe (108th in the country) left a good amount of points at the line. Tennessee went 29-6 last year in large part because of its rebounding margin, which ranked 3rd in the country; for the points it was not getting from beyond the arc or at the foul line, it was able to garner through putbacks and extra possessions.

To be honest, I think a lot of this could be corrected/improved with a healthy Ariel Massengale. She is a true playmaker, not a stand and pass point guard. She averaged 12.5 points and 5.8 assists last year, but only played in 19 games. She shot over 38 percent from three (and nearly half of her shot attempts from the floor were from three) and, in only 19 games, made more three point baskets than any other player on the team outside of Meighan Simmons. If Coach Warlick "lets her loose" and allows her to be a true playmaker, with Massengale understanding the principles of what schemes Warlick wants to run, Tennessee will definitely be an improved team.
 
I'm not sure that the above statement is completely consistent with the facts as they are understood.
At least, the this is an over-simplification.

thanks. I was about to say the same thing
 
In the first year Holly was the Head Coach. That team was very young. There was two seniors and a junior. Then Carter gets injured and has too redshirt. Now this years team has a more veteran team three seniors, and juniors.
 
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I think the issue with Holly Warlick as the head coach is that she has yet to leave her own definitive mark on the program. Replacing a legendary coach is always difficult. Replacing a true icon of the sport who is even famous and renown in the non-sports world is that much tougher.

But after two years, I have yet to see what Coach Warlick's trademarks and signature styles are. For example, does she prefer an offense predicated on the pick-and-roll? Does she use a lot of backscreening to make lanes open for cutters? Is she implementing a four-out, one-in motion offense, with a lot of freedom for her forwards on the perimeter? Does she employ box-and-one sets on defense or have a modified zone, or does she always play man-to-man?

Admittedly, I have only seen Tennessee play nine or ten times over the past two seasons. But it looks as if Coach Warlick's "style" is simply a rehashing of Pat Summitt's style in her later years:
- Give the ball to the star player (or designated star player)
- Let that star player (or designated star player) attempt to create
- If she creates for herself or others and it works, great
- If not, the post players need to hit the glass

To this casual observer, it seems as if Coach Warlick's best play is the offensive rebound.

Also, it seems as if the post players (Harrison and Graves) do not have any range on their shots. They are both extremely effective around the basket, but they do not have consistent mid-range/foul line jumpers. This makes it difficult for the two to play together, in that it limits offensive movement. It would be good to see one of the two developing range more so they can work a high-low, be the recipient in the pick-and-pop, etc.

Against elite teams that can match TN's size or switch players quickly, it becomes a problem, as TN is not a good three-point shooting team. Don't get me wrong, the percentages are really good (36.0 percent last season). But Tennessee only made 4.6 three point shots per game last year - that ranked 232nd in the country. And while TN got to the line a lot, its 71 percent from the charity stripe (108th in the country) left a good amount of points at the line. Tennessee went 29-6 last year in large part because of its rebounding margin, which ranked 3rd in the country; for the points it was not getting from beyond the arc or at the foul line, it was able to garner through putbacks and extra possessions.

To be honest, I think a lot of this could be corrected/improved with a healthy Ariel Massengale. She is a true playmaker, not a stand and pass point guard. She averaged 12.5 points and 5.8 assists last year, but only played in 19 games. She shot over 38 percent from three (and nearly half of her shot attempts from the floor were from three) and, in only 19 games, made more three point baskets than any other player on the team outside of Meighan Simmons. If Coach Warlick "lets her loose" and allows her to be a true playmaker, with Massengale understanding the principles of what schemes Warlick wants to run, Tennessee will definitely be an improved team.

I agree with a lot of what you say, particularly about Holly. I'm now less bullish on Massengale than I was when she was a freshman at Tenn. I thought she had all the tools to be a great point guard coming out of high school. At Tennessee, the bigger the game the less aggressively Massengale has played. I've never sensed that the coaches have failed to "let her loose,"; rather, it seems she's been the one to tighten up. Holly called her out after the Stanford game in 2012 and she responded with better play. I never agreed with those who said the LVs played better with Carter at the point after Massengale's injury last season. Although the starting point guard spot is reportedly up for grabs I have to believe Tenn will be a better team with Massengale at the starting pg spot.
 
It is no secret what the problem at TENN is and it has nothing to do with their talent level. All one need do was watch them play and it became apparent why they've gone so long without even a FF appearance, let alone a title.

As the top programs have continued to improve and the talent is more spread out, the days of chucking it up and crashing the boards, is no where near as successful as it was years ago. Combined with a lack of sound team defense strategies and the result has been a number of losses to teams with less raw talent and far less athletic ability, in many cases.

Time will tell if Massengale's admission holds water.
 
I don't see a bit of controversy in any of the statements by Ariel or Holly. Frankly, these comments are predictable for a team who has a coach in their 3rd year with seniors who started under a different coach. As for Diamond, I am sure glad we don't have to guard her. That's all I know.
 
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