A Little OT: An important Admission from Ariel Massengale

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I think there is a bit of oversimplification in a lot that is being said here.

There have been some Rutgers players that didn't really (to all appearances, at least) play quite the way Vivian would have liked. I'm not convinced that any of them were on their own "agenda", rather, you got a blend of what the player instinctively wanted to do, what the player thought Vivian wanted and what they thought was forced onto them by the game flow.

No successful coach has really put up with players ignoring their coaching - but plenty of coaches perforce have accepted players who didn't quite match their desires. For a variety of reasons.

Geno has the skills that he turns to an advantage to recruit players that fit well into his program, both athletic, team concept wise and everything else.

 

[cferraro04]

kind of ironic to hear references to the Vols being a veteran team... Yeah, I know they ARE a veteran team...with good solid senior leadership. However, with all those previous, nauseating references in regards to making excuses for poor play of the "baby Vols" from years past...well...I think you know what I mean...

 

[Gate81]

sounds like trying to rally the troops so she doesn't become Rex Ryan?

 

[meyers7]

Just start the season already!

Ah, now there's something I can agree with a Vol fan about.

 

[meyers7]

To this casual observer, it seems as if Coach Warlick's best play is the offensive rebound.

That and defensive pressure into fast breaks has been the TN MO for many years now. The "Run some offense" thing really doesn't seem to work for them. (even with Harry's help)

 

[FollowerCT]

I think she did get too see things more from the coaches view. I think that will help her this year. Before the injury she was leading the team in scoring.

Sue Bird learned much sitting on the bench too ... invaluable ...

 

[sivad40]

What we heard yesterday was typical preseason happy talk with a little extra from Massengale and Holly hinting that the coach and some of the upperclassmen weren't always on the same page.[/B] All one had to do was watch the Elite 8 debacle against Maryland to realize all was not well with the lady vols. This senior class doesn't want to be another to graduate without a trip to the final four. We'll see.

It seems like ever since the Glory Johnson/Shekinna Stricklen class left, there's been a tendency for the current team to blame the previous seniors for the problems of the previous season. The irony about that is the seniors of those seasons were the best players and the underclassmen underperformed.

 

[Justavisitor]

rbny1 cited Kevin Ollie as an assistant who stepped up and did well. But there are many instances where it didn't work. In football, the immortal Vince Lombardi was succeeded by an easily forgotten Phil Bengtson and Ray Hanley succeeded Bill Parshell as coach of the Giants. There also was some fellow named Guthridge who tried in vain to fill Dean Smith's shoes at UNC.

This thread contains a lot of sniping at Ariel and DD that I think is unnecessary and unjustified. The linked article was in the tradition of pre-season optimism that is typical of coaches and returning players. The intent was to stimulate the Tennessee fan base, but then the Law of Unintended Consequences kicked in as some Boneyarders couldn't resist putting lumps of coal in Holly and Ariel's stockings.

Best post in the thread.

In defense of the players, it's one thing to listen and do as the coaches say in practice and it's another thing to listen and say as they do during the games. In the heat of battle, many times instincts and old tendencies will come into play. Simple things like "don't reach and pick up a foul", but a player doing exactly that. It's not the big things, but the fine details that the players now know can be the difference in a win or a loss. To say Geno doesn't encounter this is simply not true. I'm sure you've all heard him say he pulled a player from the game that was not doing as he said do. It happens, but the key is to learn from those mistakes and not let it keep happening. Part of this is maturity and part of this is getting better through repetition and time on the court. None of these players sets out to purposely not pay attention to their coach.

 

[Justavisitor]

I am not saying she is not one of the best players. She wasn't national Freshman of the year because of her defense. The coach is implying no one is a better defender than Diamond. To that I say hogwash.

She's a very good defender and opposing teams are definitely aware of her defensive prowess. Quick, explosive, rangy, will throw her body to the floor going for loose balls..very similar to Catchings and Maya in that regard. As a freshman, she led their team in steals and drew the toughest defensive assignments. This is not typical for a freshman.

http://thetandd.com/sports/north-ca...cle_4667c60e-c70d-11e3-8579-001a4bcf887a.html

A 6-foot-1 guard from Norcross, Ga., DeShields led the team by averaging 18 points. She was honored as the Atlantic Coast Conference freshman of the year after finishing with a league single-season freshman record 648 points. Her all-around game included being able to drive, shoot the 3 and play tough defense.

 

[Justavisitor]

I hate to tell them, but there's a new sheriff in the SEC and she's won a bunch of Olympic gold.

Time will tell.

 

[meyers7]

She's a very good defender and opposing teams are definitely aware of her defensive prowess. Quick, explosive, rangy, will throw her body to the floor going for loose balls..very similar to Catchings and Maya in that regard. As a freshman, she led their team in steals and drew the toughest defensive assignments. This is not typical for a freshman.

http://thetandd.com/sports/north-ca...cle_4667c60e-c70d-11e3-8579-001a4bcf887a.html

A 6-foot-1 guard from Norcross, Ga., DeShields led the team by averaging 18 points. She was honored as the Atlantic Coast Conference freshman of the year after finishing with a league single-season freshman record 648 points. Her all-around game included being able to drive, shoot the 3 and play tough defense.

ummm a couple things. Moore isn't really known as a defensive stopper either. Also tough defense and UNC don't really go together.

 

[Fightin Choke]

ummm a couple things. Moore isn't really known as a defensive stopper either. Also tough defense and UNC don't really go together.

While it may seem surprising, UNC was a good defensive team last season, and Diamond was probably a good part of the reason why. Last season, UNC ranked 23rd in the nation in points per possession (PPP), which is a defensive metric that removes pace so we can see how effective a defense really is. (Not surprisingly, UConn led the country in defensive PPP, and it really wasn't close. While some of their huge lead is attributable to their relatively weak SOS (strength of schedule), UConn clearly had the best defense last season. Here are the defensive PPP of some top teams:

1. 0.67 UConn
7. 0.79 Louisville, South Carolina
11. 0.81 Rutgers, Notre Dame
15. 0.82 West Virginia, Texas A&M, Baylor, Texas
23. 0.83 UNC, Georgia, Tennessee

While UNC had a helter skelter offense, their defense was actually quite good, especially when one considers that the freshman class received a ton of minutes and defensive concepts take a while to learn. As for offensive PPP:

1. 1.16 UConn
2. 1.13 Notre Dame
3. 1.09 Maryland, Baylor
5. 1.08 Stanford
7. 1.07 Duke
8. 1.06 NC State
11. 1.05 South Carolina, DePaul
15. 1.04 Louisville, Tennessee, Nebraska, Iowa St.
25. 1.02 West Virginia, Michigan
30. 1.01 Oregon
36. 1.00 Oklahoma, Villanova, Kentucky
48. 0.99 UNC, GTech, Syracuse, Michigan St., Oregon St.

North Carolina certainly wasn't terrible on offense, but they were stronger defensively than they were offensively. As Diamond develops, I anticipate her being an absolute terror on defense. She is tall and very mobile, so it really will come down to the coaching she receives and the effort she extends to that aspect of her game.

 

[AnotherVolFan]

She's a very good defender and opposing teams are definitely aware of her defensive prowess. Quick, explosive, rangy, will throw her body to the floor going for loose balls..very similar to Catchings and Maya in that regard. As a freshman, she led their team in steals and drew the toughest defensive assignments. This is not typical for a freshman.

http://thetandd.com/sports/north-ca...cle_4667c60e-c70d-11e3-8579-001a4bcf887a.html

A 6-foot-1 guard from Norcross, Ga., DeShields led the team by averaging 18 points. She was honored as the Atlantic Coast Conference freshman of the year after finishing with a league single-season freshman record 648 points. Her all-around game included being able to drive, shoot the 3 and play tough defense.

I thought I was the only one who admired her defensive ability even while at UNC...I mean I'm no hater....the girl will be good on BOTH sides of the ball! But hey....that's just my opinion!

 

[AnotherVolFan]

While it may seem surprising, UNC was a good defensive team last season, and Diamond was probably a good part of the reason why. Last season, UNC ranked 23rd in the nation in points per possession (PPP), which is a defensive metric that removes pace so we can see how effective a defense really is. (Not surprisingly, UConn led the country in defensive PPP, and it really wasn't close. While some of their huge lead is attributable to their relatively weak SOS (strength of schedule), UConn clearly had the best defense last season. Here are the defensive PPP of some top teams:

1. 0.67 UConn
7. 0.79 Louisville, South Carolina
11. 0.81 Rutgers, Notre Dame
15. 0.82 West Virginia, Texas A&M, Baylor, Texas
23. 0.83 UNC, Georgia, Tennessee

While UNC had a helter skelter offense, their defense was actually quite good, especially when one considers that the freshman class received a ton of minutes and defensive concepts take a while to learn. As for offensive PPP:

1. 1.16 UConn
2. 1.13 Notre Dame
3. 1.09 Maryland, Baylor
5. 1.08 Stanford
7. 1.07 Duke
8. 1.06 NC State
11. 1.05 South Carolina, DePaul
15. 1.04 Louisville, Tennessee, Nebraska, Iowa St.
25. 1.02 West Virginia, Michigan
30. 1.01 Oregon
36. 1.00 Oklahoma, Villanova, Kentucky
48. 0.99 UNC, GTech, Syracuse, Michigan St., Oregon St.

North Carolina certainly wasn't terrible on offense, but they were stronger defensively than they were offensively. As Diamond develops, I anticipate her being an absolute terror on defense. She is tall and very mobile, so it really will come down to the coaching she receives and the effort she extends to that aspect of her game.

All this done by mostly FRESHMAN! But they don't hear you tho....

 

[meyers7]

While it may seem surprising, UNC was a good defensive team last season,

It seems our opinion of a "good defensive team" differs. UNC is certainly not known for their defense.

UNC is not in the top 50 in ppg, 36th in FG%, 29 in 3 pt FG%. Not really outstanding. But if you think that's good, I just have a bit higher standard. (probably a UCONN thing)

I thought I was the only one who admired her defensive ability even while at UNC...I mean I'm no hater....the girl will be good on BOTH sides of the ball! But hey....that's just my opinion!

She may become a good defensive player, but as of now, nothing special. At least nothing that she's "known for". But we are not gonna know for 2-3 years.

 

[LadyVols9]

I hate to tell them, but there's a new sheriff in the SEC and she's won a bunch of Olympic gold.

Ha. Well the the new sheriff is 0-2 against Holly. As a former AA point guard herself, I'm pretty sure Holly isn't scared either.

 

[AnotherVolFan]

It seems our opinion of a "good defensive team" differs. UNC is certainly not known for their defense.

UNC is not in the top 50 in ppg, 36th in FG%, 29 in 3 pt FG%. Not really outstanding. But if you think that's good, I just have a bit higher standard. (probably a UCONN thing)


She may become a good defensive player, but as of now, nothing special. At least nothing that she's "known for". But we are not gonna know for 2-3 years.

Was anyone really KNOWN for their defensive prowess their freshman year of college? I think where Ariel was getting at was DDs athleticism on the defensive end. I don't see anyone else in the country that can match her athleticism on the defensive end, combined with her height besides Stewie. I understood where Ariel was coming from even without my orange colored glasses on. But that's just me.

 

[Icebear]

You forgot to take out the Orange contacts, too.

 

[Alydar]

It hit me that Tenn fans were just as gaga 4 years ago. I thought it might be enlightening to compare last year ....

Simmons 28.1 MPG __41.6 FG%__ 83.2 FT% __ 36.0 3PT% __ 2.7 RPG __ 2,3 APG __ 0.9 A/T ........... 16.5 PPG

DeShields 27.9 MPG__ 42.6 FG%__ 77.6 FT%__ 27.9 3PT%__ 5.4 RPG__ 2.6 APG__ 0.8 A/T ................ 18.0 PPG

Simmons was criticized for being a mediocre gunner. DD's numbers tell the same story.

That extra point and a half will be decisive. LOL

 

[Fightin Choke]

It seems our opinion of a "good defensive team" differs. UNC is certainly not known for their defense.

UNC is not in the top 50 in ppg, 36th in FG%, 29 in 3 pt FG%. Not really outstanding. But if you think that's good, I just have a bit higher standard. (probably a UCONN thing)

Your idea of the stats that define defensive excellence are a bit dated. While each of the stats you cited (ppg allowed, FG% allowed, 3FG allowed) tell part of the picture, defensive points per possession (PPP) is far more inclusive. Defensive PPP include those stats, but also factors in the pace of the game, rebounding, turnovers forced, and points surrendered at the FT line. That's why UNC had the 23rd best defense in the country last season, despite playing what Sagarin considered the 6th toughest schedule in the country. For example, you argued that UNC was not even top 50 in points against. In fact, they were 130th in the nation, but that's in part due to the fact that their pace is the 19th fastest in the nation, so opposing offenses had more trips down the floor. Of course their own offense benefitted as well if you only consider PPG numbers (UNC is ranked 21st in PPG, but their offensive PPP is 43rd).

UNC shined in defensive statistics that you omitted. They were 7th in steals/game and 23rd in turnovers forced. If the opponent cannot get off a shot, who cares the percentage they shoot? They were 37th in rebounds/game. When you combine all the stats, UNC opponents scored an average of 0.83 points/trip down the floor, which was 23rd best in the nation last season. If you do not consider that a good defense (23rd out of 347 teams, which is top 7%), then I guess the being a UConn fan really has destroyed your perspective.

 

[johnnyc]

Another entertaining preseason of Tenn talking themselves into a good team while us UConn fans are stuck with the same ole boring 'damn our practices are tougher then our games'.

 

[ctfjr]

I wonder if Massengale's opening comment could be interpreted as a shot against her former teammate Simmons, who never struck me as being all about the team. JMO.

Simmons never met a shot she didn't like.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Another entertaining preseason of Tenn talking themselves into a good team while us UConn fans are stuck with the same ole boring 'damn our practices are tougher then our games'.

Didn't Tennessee have the best back or front court in the country last year or something like that? I feel like the teams that are always chirping about how great they are also are the ones that end up watching the championship game on TV.

 

[HuskyNan]

Didn't Tennessee have the best back or front court in the country last year or something like that? I feel like the teams that are always chirping about how great they are also are the ones that end up watching the championship game on TV.

Kids are asked a question on how their team will be this year and they try to answer positively. What are they supposed to say? UConn players are given instructions on how to address the press and I imagine players on all other top teams are as well. It's the players' version of coachspeak, not chirping (warning-explicit language at this link).

 

[tennparker3]

I love the downplay of Diamonds game. She played half the year with a broken hand and just continued to get better and better. 30 and 38 point performances at Duke and at NC State and was exceptional in her first post season.

But this season without Diamond or Mercedes still has us crazy Tennessee fans excited. I can't wait to see Jannah get in a game.