A Little OT: An important Admission from Ariel Massengale

[CamrnCrz1974]

There also was some fellow named Guthridge who tried in vain to fill Dean Smith's shoes at UNC.

Actually, Guthridge took UNC to the Final Four twice in three seasons as head coach. The bigger issue was the man who replaced Guthridge, Matt Doherty.

 

[OneTrickPony]

Actually, Guthridge took UNC to the Final Four twice in three seasons as head coach. The bigger issue was the man who replaced Guthridge, Matt Doherty.

Doherty was so bad he got demoted to SMU...

 

[Waquoit]

Talk is cheap, but this is a good sign for Tenn. PHS' "way" has been stale and dated for years. If the program is truly ready to put it in the rear-view they might be OK.

 

[stwainfan]

Sounds like Ariel learned a lot sitting on the bench next to the coach...

I think she did get too see things more from the coaches view. I think that will help her this year. Before the injury she was leading the team in scoring.

 

[PalPa]

Diamond is one of the best players. She was national Freshman of the year.

I am not saying she is not one of the best players. She wasn't national Freshman of the year because of her defense. The coach is implying no one is a better defender than Diamond. To that I say hogwash.

 

[UConnCat]

What we heard yesterday was typical preseason happy talk with a little extra from Massengale and Holly hinting that the coach and some of the upperclassmen weren't always on the same page. All one had to do was watch the Elite 8 debacle against Maryland to realize all was not well with the lady vols. This senior class doesn't want to be another to graduate without a trip to the final four. We'll see.

 

[OneTrickPony]

I think she did get too see things more from the coaches view. I think that will help her this year. Before the injury she was leading the team in scoring.

I know she was needed on the floor, but it's hard to help but wonder how much a freshman year without all the pressure and a chance to talk to the coach during games might have helped her...

 

[AnotherVolFan]

Just start the season already!

 

[CL82]

rbny1 cited Kevin Ollie as an assistant who stepped up and did well. But there are many instances where it didn't work. In football, the immortal Vince Lombardi was succeeded by an easily forgotten Phil Bengtson and Ray Hanley succeeded Bill Parshell as coach of the Giants. There also was some fellow named Guthridge who tried in vain to fill Dean Smith's shoes at UNC.

This thread contains a lot of sniping at Ariel and DD that I think is unnecessary and unjustified. The linked article was in the tradition of pre-season optimism that is typical of coaches and returning players. The intent was to stimulate the Tennessee fan base, but then the Law of Unintended Consequences kicked in as some Boneyarders couldn't resist putting lumps of coal in Holly and Ariel's stockings.

Mmm, hard to spin "we didn't listen to our head coach for the last couple years and instead followed our own agenda." I agree with JS that it is an incredibly damning statement, regardless of how it was intended.

 

[Huskies Rule]

They paid scant attention to Holly W's instruction the last two seasons:

''We can no longer go on our own agenda because, as it's shown the past two years, it hasn't gotten us to where we want to get to.''

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/lady-vols-theyre-heeding-warlicks-message-223447646--ncaaw.html

Thanks for the article. It'll be interesting to see if words translate into actions

 

[Beemer]

Talk is cheap, but this is a good sign for Tenn. PHS' "way" has been stale and dated for years. If the program is truly ready to put it in the rear-view they might be OK.

IMO that is still a big "if". As long as Pat Summitt is alive she & the memories of what her teams achieved will dominate the program.

 

[tennparker3]

This has been an interesting thread to read. I think Holly was the perfect replacement for Pat. Two season's under her belt and the talk is basically telling us that the transition to being completely Holly's program is finally here. Holly knows what she is doing and Tennessee isn't going anywhere and is holding strong even with a big change/transition post legendary coach.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

This has been an interesting thread to read. I think Holly was the perfect replacement for Pat. Two season's under her belt and the talk is basically telling us that the transition to being completely Holly's program is finally here. Holly knows what she is doing and Tennessee isn't going anywhere and is holding strong even with a big change/transition post legendary coach.

I think the issue with Holly Warlick as the head coach is that she has yet to leave her own definitive mark on the program. Replacing a legendary coach is always difficult. Replacing a true icon of the sport who is even famous and renown in the non-sports world is that much tougher.

But after two years, I have yet to see what Coach Warlick's trademarks and signature styles are. For example, does she prefer an offense predicated on the pick-and-roll? Does she use a lot of backscreening to make lanes open for cutters? Is she implementing a four-out, one-in motion offense, with a lot of freedom for her forwards on the perimeter? Does she employ box-and-one sets on defense or have a modified zone, or does she always play man-to-man?

Admittedly, I have only seen Tennessee play nine or ten times over the past two seasons. But it looks as if Coach Warlick's "style" is simply a rehashing of Pat Summitt's style in her later years:
- Give the ball to the star player (or designated star player)
- Let that star player (or designated star player) attempt to create
- If she creates for herself or others and it works, great
- If not, the post players need to hit the glass

To this casual observer, it seems as if Coach Warlick's best play is the offensive rebound.

Also, it seems as if the post players (Harrison and Graves) do not have any range on their shots. They are both extremely effective around the basket, but they do not have consistent mid-range/foul line jumpers. This makes it difficult for the two to play together, in that it limits offensive movement. It would be good to see one of the two developing range more so they can work a high-low, be the recipient in the pick-and-pop, etc.

Against elite teams that can match TN's size or switch players quickly, it becomes a problem, as TN is not a good three-point shooting team. Don't get me wrong, the percentages are really good (36.0 percent last season). But Tennessee only made 4.6 three point shots per game last year - that ranked 232nd in the country. And while TN got to the line a lot, its 71 percent from the charity stripe (108th in the country) left a good amount of points at the line. Tennessee went 29-6 last year in large part because of its rebounding margin, which ranked 3rd in the country; for the points it was not getting from beyond the arc or at the foul line, it was able to garner through putbacks and extra possessions.

To be honest, I think a lot of this could be corrected/improved with a healthy Ariel Massengale. She is a true playmaker, not a stand and pass point guard. She averaged 12.5 points and 5.8 assists last year, but only played in 19 games. She shot over 38 percent from three (and nearly half of her shot attempts from the floor were from three) and, in only 19 games, made more three point baskets than any other player on the team outside of Meighan Simmons. If Coach Warlick "lets her loose" and allows her to be a true playmaker, with Massengale understanding the principles of what schemes Warlick wants to run, Tennessee will definitely be an improved team.

 

[Icebear]

I hate to tell them, but there's a new sheriff in the SEC and she's won a bunch of Olympic gold.

UNfortunately, that sheriff can't suit up and step on the court.

 

[RadyLady]

I'm not sure that the above statement is completely consistent with the facts as they are understood.
At least, the this is an over-simplification.

thanks. I was about to say the same thing

 

[01Neaggrad02]

I think Stewie, Kiah, and Mo might have something to say about that.

Don;t forget KML and MoJeff...

 

[stwainfan]

In the first year Holly was the Head Coach. That team was very young. There was two seniors and a junior. Then Carter gets injured and has too redshirt. Now this years team has a more veteran team three seniors, and juniors.

 

[UConnCat]

I think the issue with Holly Warlick as the head coach is that she has yet to leave her own definitive mark on the program. Replacing a legendary coach is always difficult. Replacing a true icon of the sport who is even famous and renown in the non-sports world is that much tougher.

But after two years, I have yet to see what Coach Warlick's trademarks and signature styles are. For example, does she prefer an offense predicated on the pick-and-roll? Does she use a lot of backscreening to make lanes open for cutters? Is she implementing a four-out, one-in motion offense, with a lot of freedom for her forwards on the perimeter? Does she employ box-and-one sets on defense or have a modified zone, or does she always play man-to-man?

Admittedly, I have only seen Tennessee play nine or ten times over the past two seasons. But it looks as if Coach Warlick's "style" is simply a rehashing of Pat Summitt's style in her later years:
- Give the ball to the star player (or designated star player)
- Let that star player (or designated star player) attempt to create
- If she creates for herself or others and it works, great
- If not, the post players need to hit the glass

To this casual observer, it seems as if Coach Warlick's best play is the offensive rebound.

Also, it seems as if the post players (Harrison and Graves) do not have any range on their shots. They are both extremely effective around the basket, but they do not have consistent mid-range/foul line jumpers. This makes it difficult for the two to play together, in that it limits offensive movement. It would be good to see one of the two developing range more so they can work a high-low, be the recipient in the pick-and-pop, etc.

Against elite teams that can match TN's size or switch players quickly, it becomes a problem, as TN is not a good three-point shooting team. Don't get me wrong, the percentages are really good (36.0 percent last season). But Tennessee only made 4.6 three point shots per game last year - that ranked 232nd in the country. And while TN got to the line a lot, its 71 percent from the charity stripe (108th in the country) left a good amount of points at the line. Tennessee went 29-6 last year in large part because of its rebounding margin, which ranked 3rd in the country; for the points it was not getting from beyond the arc or at the foul line, it was able to garner through putbacks and extra possessions.

To be honest, I think a lot of this could be corrected/improved with a healthy Ariel Massengale. She is a true playmaker, not a stand and pass point guard. She averaged 12.5 points and 5.8 assists last year, but only played in 19 games. She shot over 38 percent from three (and nearly half of her shot attempts from the floor were from three) and, in only 19 games, made more three point baskets than any other player on the team outside of Meighan Simmons. If Coach Warlick "lets her loose" and allows her to be a true playmaker, with Massengale understanding the principles of what schemes Warlick wants to run, Tennessee will definitely be an improved team.

I agree with a lot of what you say, particularly about Holly. I'm now less bullish on Massengale than I was when she was a freshman at Tenn. I thought she had all the tools to be a great point guard coming out of high school. At Tennessee, the bigger the game the less aggressively Massengale has played. I've never sensed that the coaches have failed to "let her loose,"; rather, it seems she's been the one to tighten up. Holly called her out after the Stanford game in 2012 and she responded with better play. I never agreed with those who said the LVs played better with Carter at the point after Massengale's injury last season. Although the starting point guard spot is reportedly up for grabs I have to believe Tenn will be a better team with Massengale at the starting pg spot.

 

[geneticrex]

It is no secret what the problem at TENN is and it has nothing to do with their talent level. All one need do was watch them play and it became apparent why they've gone so long without even a FF appearance, let alone a title.

As the top programs have continued to improve and the talent is more spread out, the days of chucking it up and crashing the boards, is no where near as successful as it was years ago. Combined with a lack of sound team defense strategies and the result has been a number of losses to teams with less raw talent and far less athletic ability, in many cases.

Time will tell if Massengale's admission holds water.

 

[LadyVols9]

I don't see a bit of controversy in any of the statements by Ariel or Holly. Frankly, these comments are predictable for a team who has a coach in their 3rd year with seniors who started under a different coach. As for Diamond, I am sure glad we don't have to guard her. That's all I know.

 

[ThisJustIn]

If I recall correctly, Geno's transition into UConn wasn't totally without issues. Coaching players he didn't recruit and selling a new system can be tough.

That being said, one could say that Holly DID recruit these folks -- though Pat signed them. Whatever the reason for the lack of buy in, it seems only fair to look at Holly's body of word starting now. Then we can use Cam's questions as a template for evaluation.

 

[Alydar]

I don't see a bit of controversy in any of the statements by Ariel or Holly. Frankly, these comments are predictable for a team who has a coach in their 3rd year with seniors who started under a different coach. As for Diamond, I am sure glad we don't have to guard her. That's all I know.

You talk like Holly arrived in Knoxville 3 years ago. I'd guess that like most assistants, Holly spent more time with the freshmen 3 years ago than Pat and was likely involved in their recruitment. It's wrong to suggest that they aren't "her" players.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

UNfortunately, that sheriff can't suit up and step on the court.

No, but that sheriff finally has a team as talented as almost any other in the country. It took a while for Dawn to get top recruits, but now she has them.

I can't wait to see 18,000 at the CLAW for Tennessee's trip to Columbia this season.

 

[stwainfan]

No, but that sheriff finally has a team as talented as almost any other in the country. It took a while for Dawn to get top recruits, but now she has them.

I can't wait to see 18,000 at the CLAW for Tennessee's trip to Columbia this season.

Ready for the game

 

[Bestiarius]

What we heard yesterday was typical preseason happy talk with a little extra from Massengale and Holly hinting that the coach and some of the upperclassmen weren't always on the same page. All one had to do was watch the Elite 8 debacle against Maryland to realize all was not well with the lady vols. This senior class doesn't want to be another to graduate without a trip to the final four. We'll see.

The question is, if they were on the same page, would things have been better? The implication of the LV's talk is that Holly is an excellent coach, but she was facing circumstances that prevented her from performing to her ability. How many potential legends are there sitting out there waiting for their chance? Of all the coaches only a very small percentage have the ability to be great. To me, that's the main reason why legend followers usually fail. They are just not that good. Not much to do with who they followed.

Holly is competent in some areas, but has many shortcomings as a coach. There is a reason why the team didn't listen to her last year. It's nice to see that this year the team intends to follow her lead. Shortly, we will see if the pavement of that road of good intentions is painted orange, or leads to a more traditional place.