Big 12 or B1G

[whaler11]

OK then, start the $$$, forget about classes, recruit partials, cheat on APR (like everyone else), etc. Those standards were phony. Didn't exist. It'll be a lot easier to win games now.

You only get to be pompous about making football players write their own term papers if you can keep your assistant coaches from raping children in your locker room showers. Penn State is 10000000x worse than Auburn, Ohio State or SMU.

Penn State and many of their supporters have gotten so far away from reality and common sense it's difficult to believe.

 

[kibblesnbits]

The public doesn't want to hear any more about the supposedly superior standards of PSU because:

1) Protecting that perception was the implicit justification for turning their backs on far worse activities.

2) How real was the basis for that perception? If they could cover up felony abuse of children for more than a decade, how hard would it be to cover up mere NCAA violations?

 

[Chin Diesel]

Penn St. and Syracuse fans and alums are starting a 10-20 year process of having every school be able to look down on them. The U had a booster scream and physically assault a member of the University in a luxury box at a football game, pay cash and photograph players on a yacht and their fans can look at PSU and 'cuse and rightfully say that those schools are scum.

We know Cecil Newton sold his sons services for $200K and he could go on TV with a straight face and say PSU and 'cuse had a culture of corruption.

Protecting a serial pedophile while on the staff and afterwards is pretty much the lowest you can go. Short of actually training terrorists to kill Americans I can't think of any more heinous crime. Marge Schott can look up at what's going on in Happy Valley and say they're scum.

 

[businesslawyer]

Penn St. and Syracuse fans and alums are starting a 10-20 year process of having every school be able to look down on them. The U had a booster scream and physically assault a member of the University in a luxury box at a football game, pay cash and photograph players on a yacht and their fans can look at PSU and 'cuse and rightfully say that those schools are scum.

We know Cecil Newton sold his sons services for $200K and he could go on TV with a straight face and say PSU and 'cuse had a culture of corruption.

Protecting a serial pedophile while on the staff and afterwards is pretty much the lowest you can go. Short of actually training terrorists to kill Americans I can't think of any more heinous crime. Marge Schott can look up at what's going on in Happy Valley and say they're scum.

No, no, no. As much as I'd love to badmouth Syracuse given their imminent departure, this is too important. Syracuse did not do anything wrong. They hired a pedophile, but that can happen to anyone who hires employees. I have not seen any reason to believe that a single person at Syracuse believed that Fine raped underage kids, and if you don't believe it happened and an investigation doesn't turn anything up there is no blame to allocate (beyond the perpetrator himself). Let me ask a question -- if it turned out that Clive Vaughn offered a $20 to a prostitute who happened to be underage, does that mean UConn is a scum university? The answer should be of course not.

Frankly, you're trivializing the horrors at PSU by comparing it to Syracuse because it puts the emphasis on what the university can't control and ignores what the university can.

 

[Chin Diesel]

No, no, no. As much as I'd love to badmouth Syracuse given their imminent departure, this is too important. Syracuse did not do anything wrong. They hired a pedophile, but that can happen to anyone who hires employees. I have not seen any reason to believe that a single person at Syracuse believed that Fine raped underage kids, and if you don't believe it happened and an investigation doesn't turn anything up there is no blame to allocate (beyond the perpetrator himself). Let me ask a question -- if it turned out that Clive Vaughn offered a $20 to a prostitute who happened to be underage, does that mean UConn is a scum university? The answer should be of course not.

Frankly, you're trivializing the horrors at PSU by comparing it to Syracuse because it puts the emphasis on what the university can't control and ignores what the university can.

We'll agree do disagree, but for me, while not as horrible as PSU, 'cuse isn't clean on this one.

I don't believe that a coach that coaches that long and has a history of taking underage ball boys on road trips with him amongst other things did so in complete secrecy. I'm not accusing any particular person in a coverup, but I refuse to believe no one knew anything.

In a way, 'cuse should be sending roses every day to PSU. Because the depravity that went on at PSU is so extreme that people aren't as shocked at the disgusting crimes being committed at 'cuse.

 

[upstater]

You only get to be pompous about making football players write their own term papers if you can keep your assistant coaches from raping children in your locker room showers. Penn State is 10000000x worse than Auburn, Ohio State or SMU.

Penn State and many of their supporters have gotten so far away from reality and common sense it's difficult to believe.

What's difficult to believe is that some people are saying PSU should maintain its standards (in all the obvious areas but one) and people with 2 cents think there's something wrong with this.

Bizarre.

This isn't morals. It's about continuing to do things the way they've been done in the past (in all the areas but one).

Pretty basic stuff to understand.

 

[upstater]

No, no, no. As much as I'd love to badmouth Syracuse given their imminent departure, this is too important. Syracuse did not do anything wrong. They hired a pedophile, but that can happen to anyone who hires employees. I have not seen any reason to believe that a single person at Syracuse believed that Fine raped underage kids, and if you don't believe it happened and an investigation doesn't turn anything up there is no blame to allocate (beyond the perpetrator himself). Let me ask a question -- if it turned out that Clive Vaughn offered a $20 to a prostitute who happened to be underage, does that mean UConn is a scum university? The answer should be of course not.

Frankly, you're trivializing the horrors at PSU by comparing it to Syracuse because it puts the emphasis on what the university can't control and ignores what the university can.

Absolute BS.

Have you been following Syracuse?

Sounds like you haven't.

 

[upstater]

The public doesn't want to hear any more about the supposedly superior standards of PSU because:

1) Protecting that perception was the implicit justification for turning their backs on far worse activities.

2) How real was the basis for that perception? If they could cover up felony abuse of children for more than a decade, how hard would it be to cover up mere NCAA violations?

The standards were superior in most cases. Whether I give a what the public thinks, that's another story.

 

[Chin Diesel]

What's difficult to believe is that some people are saying PSU should maintain its standards (in all the obvious areas but one) and people with 2 cents think there's something wrong with this.

Bizarre.

This isn't morals. It's about continuing to do things the way they've been done in the past (in all the areas but one).

Pretty basic stuff to understand.

And Ted K, Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer were good guys in all areas but one too. Sometimes that "one" is a big deal and can rightfully overshadows everything else.


Big difference between having written standards and actually having a culture that lived those standards. PSU talked the talk but didn't walk the walk. They were all hat and no cattle. Etc, etc, etc.

 

[upstater]

And Ted K, Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer were good guys in all areas but one too. Sometimes that "one" is a big deal and can rightfully overshadows everything else.


Big difference between having written standards and actually having a culture that lived those standards. PSU talked the talk but didn't walk the walk. They were all hat and no cattle. Etc, etc, etc.

Really? Dahmer, Bundy and Ted K were sweethearts? Errr, I wouldn't want to hang out with those guys even if I were oblivious to their secrets.

PSU football even now is #1 in measurables in academics. It wasn't just written.

 

[whaler11]

The standards were superior in most cases. Whether I give a **** what the public thinks, that's another story.

That's great. You have to understand that the public doesn't give a **** about the academic standards the football team was held to.

If they go in that direction after they cleanse themselves, bully for them - but PSU has lost the right to look down their noses at Ohio State or anyone else.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Really? Dahmer, Bundy and Ted K were sweethearts? Errr, I wouldn't want to hang out with those guys even if I were oblivious to their secrets.

PSU football even now is #1 in measurables in academics. It wasn't just written.

Jeffrey Dahmer provided shelter for young men, then ate them.
Ted Bundy was known for taking sorority girls on nice country strolls before murdering them.
Ted K was a minimalist with a low carbon footprint who happened to mail bombs to people and killed them.
Penn State has great football academics and allows a coach to corn hole boys in the shower.

 

[upstater]

That's great. You have to understand that the public doesn't give a **** about the academic standards the football team was held to.

If they go in that direction after they cleanse themselves, bully for them - but PSU has lost the right to look down their noses at Ohio State or anyone else.

The public doesn't care about academics.
Good for them.
If a PSU person says we should maintain high standards, we all know what he's referring to. If he had said, now that we're all pedophile enablers, we should just go for wins, because the public doesn't care, now that would have been an interesting tack.

 

[upstater]

Jeffrey Dahmer provided shelter for young men, then ate them.
Ted Bundy was known for taking sorority girls on nice country strolls before murdering them.
Ted K was a minimalist with a low carbon footprint who happened to mail bombs to people and killed them.
Penn State has great football academics and allows a coach to corn hole boys in the shower.

Let's see if your logic works.

Dahmer provided shelter SO he could eat them.
Bundy took women on strolls SO he could murder them.
Penn State has great academics SO they can molest boys in the shower.

HMMMM, impeccable logic.

 

[whaler11]

The public doesn't care about academics.
Good for them.
If a PSU person says we should maintain high standards, we all know what he's referring to. If he had said, now that we're all pedophile enablers, we should just go for wins, because the public doesn't care, now that would have been an interesting tack.

No, the public doesn't care about your academics if you are protecting and enabling child molesters. I know that's probably hard to wrap your head around since it's such a nuanced opinion.

"PSU person" is exactly right. It's like some sort of bizarre cult. Yeah, look down your noses at Ohio State because the kids don't go to class or Auburn because they pay their QB. You can all rest easy that your heroes that had a great APR result... certainly they should be commended for that.

 

[Adios]

Can we get back on topic? I still cannot believe people want to go to a conference that is easily poachable by the Big 12, the B1G and the SEC. Anyone involved in college sports knows this is true. The ACC has not had success in football, which means some programs would be more than happy to leave for conferences that are (much) more successful in football. "Oh, we want to go to the ACC because of regional rivalries and because they have better basketball!". Give me a break. They'll be destroyed by other conferences if conferences expand to 16 or especially 18! "Oh, we want to go to the ACC, we want to go to the ACC...!" Think like builders. Not petty fans who just care about seeing regional basketball rivals or don't care about being in a league of declining football programs or don't care about football. The university doesn't revolve around your self-interests. If you want the school's other programs to continue being the most successful they can be, you need to have the most revenue you can possibly get. And football happens to be the means towards accomplishing that. "Oh, we want to go to the ACC!". The B1G sounds nice, sure. But until then, a Big 12 with ND, Rutgers, Louisville and WVU is a better option than the freaking ACC. Geography doesn't matter much anymore. San Diego State is coming into the Big East for football. We almost had TCU for football and we were elated. The ACC is a dead man walking. The ACC itself even admits it is by saying they are not worthy of a BCS bid. The other three conferences bordering it will be more than glad to take FSU, NC State, UNC, UMD, GTech, Miami, UVA, VTech, etc. ND obviously doesn't want to add their football to the ACC. You people want to go back to talking about ECU and Temple again? Think about the whole overall picture. Not what you want to see for games next year.

 

[RS9999X]

Can we get back on topic? I still cannot believe people want to go to a conference that is easily poachable by the Big 12, the B1G and the SEC. "Oh, we want to go to the ACC, we want to go to the ACC...!" Think like builders. Not petty fans who just care about seeing regional basketball rivals .

Butchy this is Fantasy Football alignment. What happened? Did the Texas Boards at Scout give you up?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: 1/6/2012 8:53 AM
UConn and Rutgers into the Big 12

Butchy wrote: There's some of us who would rather join you than the ACC. As a UConn grad, I can say our athletic program speaks for itself. And I think the NY market would enjoy Texas and the prairies coming here. Cincinnati and Louisville also obviously make solid additions. Add us four and it will not be regretted.​

Here we go again!

Not this again.

 

[Adios]

Butchy this is Fantasy Football alignment. What happened? Did the Texas Boards at Scout give you up?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: 1/6/2012 8:53 AM
UConn and Rutgers into the Big 12

Butchy wrote: There's some of us who would rather join you than the ACC. As a UConn grad, I can say our athletic program speaks for itself. And I think the NY market would enjoy Texas and the prairies coming here. Cincinnati and Louisville also obviously make solid additions. Add us four and it will not be regretted.​

Here we go again!

Not this again.

No one's saying it's a bad idea. Go back to playing with your dolls.

 

[Adios]

It is very easy to create rivalries in such a conference*. How come we can't edit our own old posts anymore?

I think the Big 12 fans, at the very least, would be open to this idea. Their noses are just a little too high up in the air to admit they like the idea by just saying "not this again".

It is incredible to think two schools that were huge in establishing the two biggest sports would be in the same conference. Naismith at Kansas for basketball and Rutgers in gridiron football.

Learn to read.

 

[zls44]

No one's saying it's a bad idea.

Ok, then allow me: it's a horrible idea.

 

[businesslawyer]

We'll agree do disagree, but for me, while not as horrible as PSU, 'cuse isn't clean on this one.

I don't believe that a coach that coaches that long and has a history of taking underage ball boys on road trips with him amongst other things did so in complete secrecy. I'm not accusing any particular person in a coverup, but I refuse to believe no one knew anything.

In a way, 'cuse should be sending roses every day to PSU. Because the depravity that went on at PSU is so extreme that people aren't as shocked at the disgusting crimes being committed at 'cuse.

So you're willing to badmouth an instititution because "you don't believe" as opposed to actual facts and evidence? O.K. You can believe what you want. But I will live my life not believing people did awful things unless I have a reason to, as opposed to a feeling. And I say that recognizing that it may turn out that facts that we don't know of yet prove you right.

But for what gut feelings are worth, I don't believe for a moment that Boeheim didn't 100% believe that Fine was not a pedophile at the time that he spoke to the press about the matter the first time.

 

[Waquoit]

Let me ask a question -- if it turned out that Clive Vaughn offered a $20 to a prostitute who happened to be underage, does that mean UConn is a scum university?

You are out of line here. He did no such thing. I don't care if this is a hypothetical. Use your own name.

 

[businesslawyer]

You are out of line here. He did no such thing. I don't care if this is a hypothetical. Use your own name.

In case anyone besides W was at all confused by my hypothetical, I have no reason whatsoever to believe that Vaughn solicited a prostitute who was underage, rather than of age.

O.K.? The point (fairly obviously I thought) is that schools are not responsible for criminal acts of their employees, unless the schools don't act appropriately upon discovering them.

 

[Waquoit]

I got your point. You missed mine. It was lousy of you to drag a guy through the mud again while exaggerating his offense, even on a message board.

 

[Excalibur]

Did you miss the "if" in his post?