Xavier’s Enrollment Challenges

[ecasadoSBU]

Less domestic college-aged kids + less international students (due to policy and/or interest) sounds like a recipe for disaster for higher education.

In times like these is when people start to notice the great value of a strong state public university. I don't see schools like UConn, Stony Brook, Rutgers (N.B), Penn State (U.P) ever have to worry about these issues. They will take away prospective students from the small private U's.

 

[CL82]

Less domestic college-aged kids + less international students (due to policy and/or interest) sounds like a recipe for disaster for higher education.

In times like these is when people start to notice the great value of a strong state public university. I don't see schools like UConn, Stony Brook, Rutgers (N.B), Penn State (U.P) ever have to worry about these issues. They will take away prospective students from the small private U's.

Largely agree, but, for what it's worth, Penn State is seeing a reduction of applicants in its satellite campuses and is considering consolidating them.

You are absolutely correct that the small privates will be the first victims of any consolidation, but I think the consolidation may be pretty dramatic. I haven't looked into it deeply, but my suspicion is that the college education bubble, which has been inflated by student loans, primarily, and foreign students, secondarily, is about to burst. It's going to wipe out many of the smaller privates, and the contraction is going to be felt in the State University systems as well.

 

[WrenchFan69]

Largely agree, but, for what it's worth, Penn State is seeing a reduction of applicants in its satellite campuses and is considering consolidating them.

You are absolutely correct that the small privates will be the first victims of any consolidation, but I think the consolidation may be pretty dramatic. I haven't looked into it deeply, but my suspicion is that the college education bubble, which has been inflated by student loans, primarily, and foreign students, secondarily, is about to burst. It's going to wipe out many of the smaller privates, and the contraction is going to be felt in the State University systems as well.

Small, private, non-elite colleges are going to go extinct. It'll start at the bottom but work its way pretty high up that ladder I figure. In CT, I bet Mitchell and Albertus Magnus will close by 2035. Possibly U of Bridgeport as well

 

[Chuck]

Small, private, non-elite colleges are going to go extinct. It'll start at the bottom but work its way pretty high up that ladder I figure. In CT, I bet Mitchell and Albertus Magnus will close by 2035. Possibly U of Bridgeport as well

I've never really understood why a lot of those schools still exist. Colleges (be they state or private) need to show their value. Value does not always mean cheapest. But poorly funded private schools tend to have the negatives of both big state schools and smaller private schools, without the positives of either. Why would a kid spend a dollar more to go to Caldwell College over Montclair State University (both near each other in NJ).

That being said, well funded, national private schools will continue to be fine. It's understandable why a New Jersey kid would choose to go to Franklin & Marshall (good, but maybe not "elite") over Penn State. The price difference is nominal (especially if you need financial aid) and they offer a very different experience.

A problem with the Big East Catholic schools is that outside Villanova and Georgetown (and maybe Providence), they don't give a lot of reason for a non-local kid to go there. And, if you're local, you're probably better off at an in-state public that is a fraction of the cost. Seton Hall is not a better school than many of the NJ state schools.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

Largely agree, but, for what it's worth, Penn State is seeing a reduction of applicants in its satellite campuses and is considering consolidating them.

You are absolutely correct that the small privates will be the first victims of any consolidation, but I think the consolidation may be pretty dramatic. I haven't looked into it deeply, but my suspicion is that the college education bubble, which has been inflated by student loans, primarily, and foreign students, secondarily, is about to burst. It's going to wipe out many of the smaller privates, and the contraction is going to be felt in the State University systems as well.

Yeah. That's why I mentioned the flagship campus of those state universities. When times were good these State Universities got crazy and started expanding all over the place with small satellite campuses. The party is over and its time to consolidate back to the main campus.

Penn State has a bunch of satellite campuses with tiny enrollments. Rutgers, UConn went similar routes with satellite small campuses.

Even Stony Brook expanded to Manhattan and Southampton.

We'll have to see the fate of these as the landscape gets squeezed

 

[Chin Diesel]

I've never really understood why a lot of those schools still exist. Colleges (be they state or private) need to show their value. Value does not always mean cheapest. But poorly funded private schools tend to have the negatives of both big state schools and smaller private schools, without the positives of either. Why would a kid spend a dollar more to go to Caldwell College over Montclair State University (both near each other in NJ).

That being said, well funded, national private schools will continue to be fine. It's understandable why a New Jersey kid would choose to go to Franklin & Marshall (good, but maybe not "elite") over Penn State. The price difference is nominal (especially if you need financial aid) and they offer a very different experience.

A problem with the Big East Catholic schools is that outside Villanova and Georgetown (and maybe Providence), they don't give a lot of reason for a non-local kid to go there. And, if you're local, you're probably better off at an in-state public that is a fraction of the cost. Seton Hall is not a better school than many of the NJ state schools.

Going to a small, private school in the Northeast was a commodity. You could say you got a degree from a place few people go to.

Eventually, and I'd say correctly, people realized there wasn't enough value for the price paid. And yes, they should go away when enrollments are dropping.

As others have already mentioned, plenty of these kids in the northeast and mid-Atlantic regions are realizing they can go to a big southern state school for the same price as in-state tuition in the north and a helluva lot cheaper than any private school in the north. And the income outcomes for life after college are comparable. And they get to party it up in way better atmospheres.

Biggest downside is these kids nowadays won't have the joys of sneaking kegs in to dorm rooms and having a party with out getting the RA's and campus police involved.

 

[Chuck]

Going to a small, private school in the Northeast was a commodity. You could say you got a degree from a place few people go to.

Eventually, and I'd say correctly, people realized there wasn't enough value for the price paid. And yes, they should go away when enrollments are dropping.

As others have already mentioned, plenty of these kids in the northeast and mid-Atlantic regions are realizing they can go to a big southern state school for the same price as in-state tuition in the north and a helluva lot cheaper than any private school in the north. And the income outcomes for life after college are comparable. And they get to party it up in way better atmospheres.

Biggest downside is these kids nowadays won't have the joys of sneaking kegs in to dorm rooms and having a party with out getting the RA's and campus police involved.

I somewhat agree. To be clear... this isn't me crapping on any universities. Just mentioning what I've seen in my north Jersey county. Those southern schools are killing it with kids that would've gone to a mediocre public or private school in the past. Schools like URI and WVU were big northeast options for kids that didn't get into Rutgers, Penn State or others. Now, those kids are regularly going to southern schools. We haven't had any kids go to Bama/USC/Tennessee, etc. over the top public or private schools no matter the price difference. But, my town is probably a bit sheltered.

Re the keggers... my kids in northeast schools are getting plenty of access to alcohol and weed. Unfortunately, coke is making a comeback also. My son was written up twice in 2 years and the RA threw them out without submitting (as a warning) in both cases. In both cases, he was an idiot and would've been written up in my early 90s UConn days.

Keep in mind also, a lot of those private schools give tremendous financial aid. My kid's very expensive private school would be cheaper than Rutgers in state if I made less than $200k.

 

[Kolumbo]

Perhaps some of the very small privates will always be in demand. Many people simply don't want the large university atmosphere. They want the small private schools closer to home which are more like a continuation of high school. Schools where they have a chance to play DIII sports too.

 

[WrenchFan69]

Perhaps some of the very small privates will always be in demand. Many people simply don't want the large university atmosphere. They want the small private schools closer to home which are more like a continuation of high school. Schools where they have a chance to play DIII sports too.

The top small private schools will always exist. It will just consolidate where the bottomfeeders continue to drop off.

 

[huskymedic]

Going to a small, private school in the Northeast was a commodity. You could say you got a degree from a place few people go to.

Eventually, and I'd say correctly, people realized there wasn't enough value for the price paid. And yes, they should go away when enrollments are dropping.

As others have already mentioned, plenty of these kids in the northeast and mid-Atlantic regions are realizing they can go to a big southern state school for the same price as in-state tuition in the north and a helluva lot cheaper than any private school in the north. And the income outcomes for life after college are comparable. And they get to party it up in way better atmospheres.

Biggest downside is these kids nowadays won't have the joys of sneaking kegs in to dorm rooms and having a party with out getting the RA's and campus police involved.

To the point raised: Why young Americans are shunning elite universities for the Deep South

 

[History Geek]

Going to a small, private school in the Northeast was a commodity. You could say you got a degree from a place few people go to.

Eventually, and I'd say correctly, people realized there wasn't enough value for the price paid. And yes, they should go away when enrollments are dropping.

As others have already mentioned, plenty of these kids in the northeast and mid-Atlantic regions are realizing they can go to a big southern state school for the same price as in-state tuition in the north and a helluva lot cheaper than any private school in the north. And the income outcomes for life after college are comparable. And they get to party it up in way better atmospheres.

Biggest downside is these kids nowadays won't have the joys of sneaking kegs in to dorm rooms and having a party with out getting the RA's and campus police involved.

I teach in a public high school in the New Haven area. Kids going to BIG SEC state schools is definitely a growing trend, and the reason mentioned here is Reason #1.

 

[jllevin79]

I teach in a public high school in the New Haven area. Kids going to BIG SEC state schools is definitely a growing trend, and the reason mentioned here is Reason #1.

I blame TikTok. They see these videos of kids partying on game day, sorority dance clips, etc. and want to be part of the crowd. My daughter is senior, staying up north for sports, but all of her friends are looking to go down south to big state schools.

 

[ZooCougar]

I blame TikTok. They see these videos of kids partying on game day, sorority dance clips, etc. and want to be part of the crowd. My daughter is senior, staying up north for sports, but all of her friends are looking to go down south to big state schools.

Yup. The university/campus culture down there is really attractive. Social life is a priority over everything else.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Yup. The university/campus culture down there is really attractive. Social life is a priority over everything else.

With grade inflation and getting a "B" at a minimum if you just show up and complete assignments regardless of what school you attend, why not?

I'm finishing up a Master's in Education and the amount of typos and poor grammar, not just on the weekly message boards, but assignments we pass between us students for review and comment, is appalling.

(Yes, I realize, I have to make at least one grammatical mistake in a comment about other's grammar).

 

[ZooCougar]

 

[ZooCougar]

With grade inflation and getting a "B" at a minimum if you just show up and complete assignments regardless of what school you attend, why not?

I'm finishing up a Master's in Education and the amount of typos and poor grammar, not just on the weekly message boards, but assignments we pass between us students for review and comment, is appalling.

(Yes, I realize, I have to make at least one grammatical mistake in a comment about other's grammar).

No typos when they are using their internet slang though.

It’s hard to write when you can’t lean on AI and Grammerly.

 

[JwittersPAC]

Wanting to go to a small Private college has traditionally been a very New England (also include NY and NJ) thing to do (excluding the Ivy League). If you travel through the midwest, South, and west most people consider going to their state university as their top college choice.

 

[CL82]

With grade inflation and getting a "B" at a minimum if you just show up and complete assignments regardless of what school you attend, why not?

I'm finishing up a Master's in Education and the amount of typos and poor grammar, not just on the weekly message boards, but assignments we pass between us students for review and comment, is appalling.

(Yes, I realize, I have to make at least one grammatical mistake in a comment about other's grammar).

A friend of mine was talking about teaching at the college level. He says that it's a completely different animal than when we went to school.

 

[JwittersPAC]

A friend of mine was talking about teaching at the college level. He says that it's a completely different animal than when we went to school.

What courses does he teach?

 

[CL82]

What courses does he teach?

Lol, you know, I never asked. Given his background, I would suspect it would be STEM related.

I've heard the same thing from others as well. One comment was that students mindsets had changed about personal accountability. Another was the good observation that it's the natural inclination of professors, particularly adjunct professors, to build their expectations from their last higher education experience, which, for the vast majority would not be undergrad. The comments I've heard is that the combination of those things, lower individual student, accountability, and unrealistic expectations for adjunct professors create a conflict of expectation of what the college experience should be.

 

[JwittersPAC]

Lol, you know, I never asked. Given his background, I would suspect it would be STEM related.

I've heard the same thing from others as well. One comment was that students mindsets had changed about personal accountability. Another was the good observation that it's the natural inclination of professors, particularly adjunct professors, to build their expectations from their last higher education experience, which, for the vast majority would not be undergrad. The comments I've heard is that the combination of those things, lower individual student, accountability, and unrealistic expectations for adjunct professors create a conflict of expectation of what the college experience should be.

Interesting to hear. I majored in applied mathematics.

 

[Exit 4]

I teach in a public high school in the New Haven area. Kids going to BIG SEC state schools is definitely a growing trend, and the reason mentioned here is Reason #1.

Its a thing all the way at the bottom of the state too. Particularly the B+ student with a 1200-1370 SAT that decides against staying home with UConn. UVM, URI, UNH, UMass, Providence, etc have - no chance. Kids don't even think one second to apply to any of those anymore.

There is a shift afoot on higher Ed away from the north. These mid and lower tier private colleges north of DC are going to be folding fast in another decade. And the notion that serious college and the best college remains on the coasts or in the northeast will be forgotten. Most employed by higher Ed don't see it coming. By that, what I mean is that they know about the demographic crunch, but they are not paying attention to the sea change in attitudes about the quality aspects. The southern schools are losing their stigma as unserious institutions.

 

[CL82]

Interesting to hear. I majored in applied mathematics.

When did you graduate? I suspect it may be at least somewhat major related, with more demanding majors having more accountability. That's just a guess on my part though.

 

[JwittersPAC]

When did you graduate? I suspect it may be at least somewhat major related, with more demanding majors having more accountability. That's just a guess on my part though.

Graduated in 1989.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Its a thing all the way at the bottom of the state too. Particularly the B+ student with a 1200-1370 SAT that decides against staying home with UConn. UVM, URI, UNH, UMass, Providence, etc have - no chance. Kids don't even think one second to apply to any of those anymore.

There is a shift afoot on higher Ed away from the north. These mid and lower tier private colleges north of DC are going to be folding fast in another decade. And the notion that serious college and the best college remains on the coasts or in the northeast will be forgotten. Most employed by higher Ed don't see it coming. By that, what I mean is that they know about the demographic crunch, but they are not paying attention to the sea change in attitudes about the quality aspects. The southern schools are losing their stigma as unserious institutions.

I think the bean counters at the universities have been well aware of the already existing, and soon to be worse, student shortage. For a while the idea was to draw from growth states and soak up the out of state tuition, and then international students.

Now, the shell game has run its course and universities have run out of stateside students, and international students are leveling off.

Doesn't help that almost everything you need to learn at a university is available online and the pace of workplace knowledge is making a college education less valuable to many.

To me the bigger gap has been the degrees universities have been awarding as compared to what the domestic marketplace needs for skills and knowledge.