Xavier’s Enrollment Challenges

[SU1968]

Charter Oak and CCSU should be merged.

I would argue UConn Avery Point should can sports as should Manchester CC.

You could make an argument to close WCSU if it gets an enrollment under 2,000 undergraduates.

Overall, the state of CT does a pretty good job with its organization of higher learning. There are a few head scratchers (Charter Oak and CCSU being separate institutions), but overall a solid job.

If the state of CT is like other states, many of these decisions are for political reasons, not academic ones.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Charter Oak and CCSU should be merged.

I would argue UConn Avery Point should can sports as should Manchester CC.

You could make an argument to close WCSU if it gets an enrollment under 2,000 undergraduates.

Overall, the state of CT does a pretty good job with its organization of higher learning. There are a few head scratchers (Charter Oak and CCSU being separate institutions), but overall a solid job.

Charter Oak has shown the most growth in the CSCU over the past 5 years. It is the only institution in the group that has grown compared to pre-covid numbers, and it requires must smaller investment from the state. I think UConn should buy it from the state to create UConn Global.

 

[JwittersPAC]

Charter Oak has shown the most growth in the CSCU over the past 5 years. It is the only institution in the group that has grown compared to pre-covid numbers, and it requires must smaller investment from the state. I think UConn should buy it from the state to create UConn Global.

What is UConn using for funds to purchase Charter Oak? UConn is currently running a deficit.

 

[CL82]

What is UConn using for funds to purchase Charter Oak? UConn is currently running a deficit.

From the state, obviously. Not that I'm advocating the purchase of Charter Oak.

The statement that UConn is running a deficit really does an adequately explain just how big and how valuable the university is. It has over 5 billion in total assets and about 1.3 billion in operating and non-operating revenues. It is a huge economic engine for the state.

2024 fiscal year financials

 

[JwittersPAC]

From the state, obviously. Not that I'm advocating the purchase of Charter Oak.

The statement that UConn is running a deficit really does an adequately explain just how big and how valuable the university is. It has over 5 billion in total assets and about 1.3 billion in operating and non-operating revenues. It is a huge economic engine for the state.

2024 fiscal year financials

Again not disagreeing. The state of CT would just merge Charter Oak into UConn. UConn would not purchase Charter Oak.

 

[CL82]

Again not disagreeing. The state of CT would just merge Charter Oak into UConn. UConn would not purchase Charter Oak.

Agree, but as noted above, I don't see any reason for it organizationally.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Again not disagreeing. The state of CT would just merge Charter Oak into UConn. UConn would not purchase Charter Oak.

2 different systems

 

[freescooter]

I doubt that more than an odd student or two is swapping Yale, Harvard, Princeton or Penn for UGA or Alabama. If they are then they really need better advisors.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I doubt that more than an odd student or two is swapping Yale, Harvard, Princeton or Penn for UGA or Alabama. If they are then they really need better advisors.

That X article said Danbury, not Darien.

 

[ZooCougar]

That X article said Danbury, not Darien.

Yeah it was a joke. I think the choice of town had more to do with ignorance of CT than where these kids are coming from.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Yeah it was a joke. I think the choice of town had more to do with ignorance of CT than where these kids are coming from.

Zoo, I was criticizing Scooter, not you.

I know of a few Stamford families (some friends, some work colleagues) who have sent their kids to South Carolina (Gamecocks), that school has become quite popular here over the past dozen or so years.

The atmosphere at southern schools is very different from the northeast and i can see why college aged kids would be attracted to those schools.

To Scooter's point, no, someone looking into an ivy league school most likely wouldn't want the large southern school feel, but that isn't who southern schools are targeting (and yes, there has been a large, comprehensive outreach from those schools to attract northeast students).

 

[Chin Diesel]

Zoo, I was criticizing Scooter, not you.

I know of a few Stamford families (some friends, some work colleagues) who have sent their kids to South Carolina (Gamecocks), that school has become quite popular here over the past dozen or so years.

The atmosphere at southern schools is very different from the northeast and i can see why college aged kids would be attracted to those schools.

To Scooter's point, no, someone looking into an ivy league school most likely wouldn't want the large southern school feel, but that isn't who southern schools are targeting (and yes, there has been a large, comprehensive outreach from those schools to attract northeast students).

Right. The Southern schools are poaching those mid level kids to go to State U for $30k instead of some private school in Northeast for$70k+.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Right. The Southern schools are poaching those mid level kids to go to State U for $30k instead of some private school in Northeast for$70k+.

Chin, when you have a little time check out the annual, all in costs of mid-level private schools in the northeast. You won't find many at the price you quoted. Most are 15% - 20% higher.

When my son (recently turned 30) was early in high school I started investigating different schools up here (won't name any as I don't want to offend anyone who may h ave gone to one). I was stunned at the cost of some of the private schools that had run of the mill acceptance standards/academic standing. I can understand a few private schools up here charging a premium rate, but I stated many times "I refuse to pay a premium for mediocrity".

The thing is many of those schools exist solely because of affluent families who feel it is beneath them to send their kid (who couldn't get into a school of choice) to a public university. I can name close to a dozen $90k a year schools up here that won't give a better education than Southern CT or Central CT, but fir the students who attend those schools, a directional state school would dishonor the family name.

 

[ZooCougar]

Zoo, I was criticizing Scooter, not you.

I know of a few Stamford families (some friends, some work colleagues) who have sent their kids to South Carolina (Gamecocks), that school has become quite popular here over the past dozen or so years.

The atmosphere at southern schools is very different from the northeast and i can see why college aged kids would be attracted to those schools.

To Scooter's point, no, someone looking into an ivy league school most likely wouldn't want the large southern school feel, but that isn't who southern schools are targeting (and yes, there has been a large, comprehensive outreach from those schools to attract northeast students).

I know. I just think it’s funny that people in other parts of the country think we all went to Ivy League schools.

I went south for school too. I get the allure.

 

[CL82]

I know. I just think it’s funny that people in other parts of the country think we all went to Ivy League schools.

I went south for school too. I get the allure.

I have to laugh when people think that Rutgers is an Ivy League school. Amazingly, it happens more than you would think.

(What it's worth that's not a knock on Rutgers, which is a decent school, rather it's commentary that a northeast school name which doesn't include a state name is presumed to be an Ivy.)

 

[Chuck]

Chin, when you have a little time check out the annual, all in costs of mid-level private schools in the northeast. You won't find many at the price you quoted. Most are 15% - 20% higher.

When my son (recently turned 30) was early in high school I started investigating different schools up here (won't name any as I don't want to offend anyone who may h ave gone to one). I was stunned at the cost of some of the private schools that had run of the mill acceptance standards/academic standing. I can understand a few private schools up here charging a premium rate, but I stated many times "I refuse to pay a premium for mediocrity".

The thing is many of those schools exist solely because of affluent families who feel it is beneath them to send their kid (who couldn't get into a school of choice) to a public university. I can name close to a dozen $90k a year schools up here that won't give a better education than Southern CT or Central CT, but fir the students who attend those schools, a directional state school would dishonor the family name.

Just an fyi to compare apples to apples (or apples to peaches). Those private schools aren't $90k compared to southern schools at $30k. The most expensive schools are about $73k for tuition and most mid-level private schools are in the $60ks. You are factoring in room and board which would push up those southern schools as well (almost $58k for Alabama). In fact, those awesome dorms and Greek houses at places like Alabama cost a lot more than standard dorms.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Just an fyi to compare apples to apples (or apples to peaches). Those private schools aren't $90k compared to southern schools at $30k. The most expensive schools are about $73k for tuition and most mid-level private schools are in the $60ks. You are factoring in room and board which would push up those southern schools as well (almost $58k for Alabama). In fact, those awesome dorms and Greek houses at places like Alabama cost a lot more than standard dorms.

Eh, not really. At least here in suburban Boston (I assume CT would be the same) kids coming out of good HS are getting merit money to head south. So much so that it's cheaper than UMass or UConn in state tuition. Those schools have been luring higher SAT/GPA northern kids for years now and have those moved up in the rankings, which makes even more appealing to northern parents. I also think Covid caused a shift, as kids up north were locked in their dorm rooms in masks and taking virtual classes while kids in say Florida, went to class as normal. Those big southern public schools are poaching kids and it's not likely to stop anytime soon.

Also, private schools are certainly more than the 60s. Hell tuition is more than that and you've got room and board in an expensive location like Boston or NYC. My daughter finished up at Northeastern this morning. It was not cheap. More than $80k a year. Now I'll admit that at every lesser private she was admitted to she got merit aid. Even UVM offered her a lot.

 

[Chuck]

Eh, not really. At least here in suburban Boston (I assume CT would be the same) kids coming out of good HS are getting merit money to head south. So much so that it's cheaper than UMass or UConn in state tuition. Those schools have been luring higher SAT/GPA northern kids for years now and have those moved up in the rankings, which makes even more appealing to northern parents. I also think Covid caused a shift, as kids up north were locked in their dorm rooms in masks and taking virtual classes while kids in say Florida, went to class as normal. Those big southern public schools are poaching kids and it's not likely to stop anytime soon.

Also, private schools are certainly more than the 60s. Hell tuition is more than that and you've got room and board in an expensive location like Boston or NYC. My daughter finished up at Northeastern this morning. It was not cheap. More than $80k a year. Now I'll admit that at every lesser private she was admitted to she got merit aid. Even UVM offered her a lot.

Not attacking you, but read my post. There is conflicting comparisons of school costs. Someone compared southern schools at $30k for out of state cost vs $70k+ in the northeast. Someone else jumped in and said the northern schools are in the $90s. I was only pointing out that the comparison mixes tuition/fees for the southern state schools (even then it's not $30k for most) and tuition/fees/room/board for the privates. There are no private schools that are in the $90s for tuition and fees.

The main point seemed to be comparing mediocre private schools to southern state schools as a northern kid. Totally fair, but here are the numbers. The more elite privates are in the $70k-$73k range for tuition/fees, but it's hard to compare Amherst to Alabama. A school like Providence (I'm just picking a school that most wouldn't call "elite"), for example, is $65k and Alabama is $35k for tuition/fees (Clemson is $42k).

Room/board is important, but those costs are often similar unless you are in an expensive city, like Boston. One of my kids is in a mediocre dorm, but it's cheaper than Alabama.

Once you get into figuring out merit and financial aid, it's like herding cats. It's too hard to judge real costs until you see what that real cost would be for you/your kid. I don't judge anyone's decision on where they go to college. That goes for kids going to low rated expensive schools, low rated cheap schools and everything in between. Do what's best for you (but that includes making sure the school will be around for a while after you graduate).

 

[HuskyHawk]

Not attacking you, but read my post. The poster was comparing $30k for southern schools to $90k plus for northern private schools. I was only pointing out that it's just not accurate unless you are talking in state cost for the southern state school.

The main point seemed to be comparing mediocre private schools to southern state schools as a northern kid. The more elite privates are in the $70k-$73k range for tuition/fees, but it's hard to compare Amherst to Alabama. A school like Providence (I'm just picking a school that most wouldn't call "elite"), for example, is $65k and Alabama is $35k for tuition/fees. And those awesome dorms you see in many of the southern schools are add ons.

Once you get into figuring out merit and financial aid, it's like herding cats. It's too hard to judge real costs until you see what that real cost would be for you/your kid. I don't judge anyone's decision on where they go to college. That goes for kids going to low rated expensive schools, low rated cheap schools and everything in between. Do what's best for you (but that includes making sure the school will be around for a while after you graduate).

I get it. It's not simple and is different for every kid. Auburn is $34 out of state (so is South Carolina). Assume maybe $8k merit and that's $26. Room and board is $17 (I'll even say $20 for that sorority) so 26+20=46. Providence doesn't give much merit, so let's take Fairfield, it's relatively cheaper anyway at $59k for tuition but room and board is $22k. Merit might be about $14k, so $45+22= 67. That's still a $20k a year gap. Even a high quality midwestern school like Purdue is $44 a year out of state with no merit aid.

Most of those big state schools are better than a school like Fairfield, or Sacred Heart, have a vastly more robust alumni network, and are in a region with more job growth. Factor in the cost advantage and that kids and their parents are focusing on STEM and Business rather than liberal arts, and it's a real competitive advantage that is hard to ignore. Worcester Polytechnic is $75k. How do you choose that over Purdue as an engineering student? WPI is ranked #64 for undergrad engineering and Purdue is #8. Georgia Tech is an insane deal as well.

To your point, it's highly individualized. My kid wanted an urban environment. She hated UConn and UNH. Wouldn't even apply. I didn't even take her to Amherst. She also had no idea what she wanted to study, if you do know, that's an advantage. Northeastern was the most expensive option for her (and highest rated) but with Co-op helping to direct her towards a field of study it was a good choice. But loads of her high school classmates at a Catholic HS in metro Boston went to big southern public schools. For many it wasn't money, but warmth, football, Greek life and college fun that appealed.

 

[upstater]

Eh, not really. At least here in suburban Boston (I assume CT would be the same) kids coming out of good HS are getting merit money to head south. So much so that it's cheaper than UMass or UConn in state tuition. Those schools have been luring higher SAT/GPA northern kids for years now and have those moved up in the rankings, which makes even more appealing to northern parents. I also think Covid caused a shift, as kids up north were locked in their dorm rooms in masks and taking virtual classes while kids in say Florida, went to class as normal. Those big southern public schools are poaching kids and it's not likely to stop anytime soon.

Also, private schools are certainly more than the 60s. Hell tuition is more than that and you've got room and board in an expensive location like Boston or NYC. My daughter finished up at Northeastern this morning. It was not cheap. More than $80k a year. Now I'll admit that at every lesser private she was admitted to she got merit aid. Even UVM offered her a lot.

Here is the out of state tuition at these SEC schools:

• Alabama: $25,950
• Auburn: $26,424
• Georgia: $27,574
• Tennessee: $28,380
• Florida: $28,590
• South Carolina: $29,898

UConn is $23,000 and UMass is $18,000.

So, if they give any significant amount of aid, they fall below the expenditure-per-student number which has to be in the 20s. They'd be losing money if they undercut UConn or UMass.

I'm not saying you're wrong but the math isn't mathing.

If you told me this were true at Michigan ($62k), I'd believe it 100%.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Here is the out of state tuition at these SEC schools:

• Alabama: $25,950
• Auburn: $26,424
• Georgia: $27,574
• Tennessee: $28,380
• Florida: $28,590
• South Carolina: $29,898

UConn is $23,000 and UMass is $18,000.

So, if they give any significant amount of aid, they fall below the expenditure-per-student number which has to be in the 20s. They'd be losing money if they undercut UConn or UMass.

I'm not saying you're wrong but the math isn't mathing.

If you told me this were true at Michigan ($62k), I'd believe it 100%.

Those numbers are wrong. Bama is $34,542 Auburn is $35,986. UGA is 30,878. UT 33,336. Florida 30,900 South Carolina 36,988.

By the way, I don't think they are throwing merit at every northern kid. I think they target some to boost their stats, like most do with merit. They don't really need to for others because they are affordable enough already compared to our local privates or even out of state publics in the north.

I look at where the kids from my daughter's Catholic HS in metro Boston go. It's stunning how many go to these schools. Clemson is probably the most popular. 6 kids from her class went to Clemson. 3 Auburn. 3 Tennessee. 3 Bama. Many others too. This is a change.

 

[upstater]

Those numbers are wrong. Bama is $34,542 Auburn is $35,986. UGA is 30,878. UT 33,336. Florida 30,900 South Carolina 36,988.

That makes it even worse then. In-state tuition should be less even after merit aid.

Like I said, if you're telling me you went to Michigan because they gave you $20k, I will certainly believe Michigan admitted you for $43k per year. They're making money. But if you're telling me Alabama gave you $15k, I won't believe it. They'd be losing money on the deal.

 

[HuskyHawk]

That makes it even worse then. In-state tuition should be less even after merit aid.

Like I said, if you're telling me you went to Michigan because they gave you $20k, I will certainly believe Michigan admitted you for $43k per year. They're making money. But if you're telling me Alabama gave you $15k, I won't believe it. They'd be losing money on the deal.

Those are the out of state numbers. But in state isn't in the 20s. At Bama it is under 12.

Cost of Attendance - Afford | The University of Alabama

Affording college at the University of Alabama

afford.ua.edu

 

[Chin Diesel]

Chin, when you have a little time check out the annual, all in costs of mid-level private schools in the northeast. You won't find many at the price you quoted. Most are 15% - 20% higher.

When my son (recently turned 30) was early in high school I started investigating different schools up here (won't name any as I don't want to offend anyone who may h ave gone to one). I was stunned at the cost of some of the private schools that had run of the mill acceptance standards/academic standing. I can understand a few private schools up here charging a premium rate, but I stated many times "I refuse to pay a premium for mediocrity".

The thing is many of those schools exist solely because of affluent families who feel it is beneath them to send their kid (who couldn't get into a school of choice) to a public university. I can name close to a dozen $90k a year schools up here that won't give a better education than Southern CT or Central CT, but fir the students who attend those schools, a directional state school would dishonor the family name.

Yeah, I figured I was lowballing the tuition and room and board. OTOH, so many kids are getting grants or scholarships, who knows what the average MSRP really is for many privates.

Regardless, the Ivies are safe, but the smaller schools whose financial outcomes for employment aren't crazy good are going the way of the Dodo. And the northeast is ground zero for small, private schools. Not enough kids coming out of HS and more and more wanting to go south for the college experience.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Here is the out of state tuition at these SEC schools:

• Alabama: $25,950
• Auburn: $26,424
• Georgia: $27,574
• Tennessee: $28,380
• Florida: $28,590
• South Carolina: $29,898

UConn is $23,000 and UMass is $18,000.

So, if they give any significant amount of aid, they fall below the expenditure-per-student number which has to be in the 20s. They'd be losing money if they undercut UConn or UMass.

I'm not saying you're wrong but the math isn't mathing.

If you told me this were true at Michigan ($62k), I'd believe it 100%.

Are your numbers for UConn & UMass in state or out of state? They appear to be very low of they are out of state numbers (which is how it reads).