Xavier’s Enrollment Challenges

[Vowelguy]

It's not just the Big East Catholic schools that are having enrollment problems. There is a shrinking college-age population.

Especially in the Northeast & Midwest. This is why I think the B1G needs to add UNC or some other southern school(s). Need more proximity to both students and recruits.

 

[Vowelguy]

Small, private, non-elite colleges are going to go extinct. It'll start at the bottom but work its way pretty high up that ladder I figure. In CT, I bet Mitchell and Albertus Magnus will close by 2035. Possibly U of Bridgeport as well

Yeah largely agree. Why would anyone go to a super-expensive mediocre private school when there's likely a more modest-ly priced, same-quality public school.

 

[Slasher]

Applications to Xavier have surged over the past decade, up 60% (due to the common app), but the yield of accepted students has plummeted by about half. Oddly, SAT scores have gone up over time. Acceptance rates are in the high 80s, so they need to figure out how to improve their yield. Cincinnati, a direct competitor, has grown enrollment as they have increased their acceptance rate to the high 80%. And I would assume their addition to the Big 12 has increased their appeal to students.

Xavier gives automatic enrollment to all Cincinnati catholic school graduates now and they still are seeing a dip in attendance. They're in deep, deep trouble.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Xavier is suffering the same fate many 2nd and worse tier privates are going to face. They have priced themselves out of their market. Tuition is about 50k, just short of 70k if you live on campus. It offers a good education, but at those prices there are other options. And with the pending demographic cliff many medium and small privates will merge or vanish over the next two decades.

I do believe Xavier will figure it out, but others won't.

 

[Chuck]

Xavier is suffering the same fate many 2nd and worse tier privates are going to face. They have priced themselves out of their market. Tuition is about 50k, just short of 70k if you live on campus. It offers a good education, but at those prices there are other options. And with the pending demographic cliff many medium and small privates will merge or vanish over the next two decades.

I do believe Xavier will figure it out, but others won't.

Just a quick note for those that haven't gone through the college application / decision process recently. We're mixing arguments in this thread. Many are saying that private schools will fail because they are too expensive, but also acknowledging how many northern kids are going to southern public schools instead.

Private schools need to make themselves competitive with out of state public school costs and attraction. Xavier isn't far off on cost, but I don't know if Xavier is attractive as a school for kids not from OH. For comparison, here is Xavier vs. a couple options.

• Xavier tuition, fees, housing, meal plan: $67,256.
• UConn is $58,780.
• Clemson is $57,600.
• Alabama $50,458 (and that's not for the awesome greek houses or dorms)
• Georgia is $44,420 (bargain)
• Michigan is $80,208 (and $5k more for juniors and seniors).

EDIT: Also adding that private schools are generally more generous with merit and financial aid (other than Alabama that is throwing money at high achievers to improve their student body). I'd be surprised if the actual cost of attendance at Xavier for a strong candidate isn't the same or less than the out of state public schools.

 

[Kolumbo]

I'll play devil's advocate for a moment. Yes, many small schools may not survive. I think we are underestimating the number of kids who want to go to a small school, who want to play sports at the DIII level, and who come from families who like the "prestige" of going to a small private school. I know many kids are not getting into UConn these days and that is just one reason they are looking south, among others of course.

 

[Vowelguy]

Just a quick note for those that haven't gone through the college application / decision process recently. We're mixing arguments in this thread. Many are saying that private schools will fail because they are too expensive, but also acknowledging how many northern kids are going to southern public schools instead.

Private schools need to make themselves competitive with out of state public school costs and attraction. Xavier isn't far off on cost, but I don't know if Xavier is attractive as a school for kids not from OH. For comparison, here is Xavier vs. a couple options.

• Xavier tuition, fees, housing, meal plan: $67,256.
• UConn is $58,780.
• Clemson is $57,600.
• Alabama $50,458 (and that's not for the awesome greek houses or dorms)
• Georgia is $44,420 (bargain)
• Michigan is $80,208 (and $5k more for juniors and seniors).

EDIT: Also adding that private schools are generally more generous with merit and financial aid (other than Alabama that is throwing money at high achievers to improve their student body). I'd be surprised if the actual cost of attendance at Xavier for a strong candidate isn't the same or less than the out of state public schools.

I randomly picked a private school in CT and here's what I came up with ...

University of New Haven: 76th in US News (Regional Universities North), Tuition: 50k
Southern CT: 64th in same category, Tuition: 13k (27k out of state)
Eastern: 66th, 14k (18k)
FitchburgSt (MA): 72nd, 12k (18k)
Central: 76th, 13k (17k)

How is this sustainable for UNH?

Yes I know I'm looking at sticker price and not the actual price being paid. The former is easier to find quickly online.

 

[Chuck]

I randomly picked a private school in CT and here's what I came up with ...

University of New Haven: 76th in US News (Regional Universities North), Tuition: 50k
Southern CT: 64th in same category, Tuition: 13k (27k out of state)
Eastern: 66th, 14k (18k)
FitchburgSt (MA): 72nd, 12k (18k)
Central: 76th, 13k (17k)

How is this sustainable for UNH?

Yes I know I'm looking at sticker price and not the actual price being paid. The former is easier to find quickly online.

I don't think we're really disagreeing. I don't think schools like UNH can compete directly with a directional state school like Southern or Eastern CT. I'm assuming that the latter are just as good (probably better) than UNH academically and I doubt UNH offers anything extra as far as student life or opportunities. I think schools like UNH are in trouble.

I'm looking more at a school like Fairfield University. I don't know much about Fairfield other than a lot of kids from our town go there. I wouldn't call it "elite." About $79k before any aid. Ranked 139th in National Universities. If a kid from NJ has no interest in a NJ state school, then he's comparing Fairfield vs out of state universities (like UConn) and the $20k per year difference may get shrunk by aid and it's a totally different academic/life experience.

There are plenty of people that have plenty of money. Their kid won't want to go to UNH or Eastern CT. They'll go out of state and that's who the private schools need to compete for.

DISCLOSURE: I have two kids in non-elite (I use the term "elite" sparingly) private colleges so I'm biased. I'm acknowledge I'm overpaying.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I'll play devil's advocate for a moment. Yes, many small schools may not survive. I think we are underestimating the number of kids who want to go to a small school, who want to play sports at the DIII level, and who come from families who like the "prestige" of going to a small private school. I know many kids are not getting into UConn these days and that is just one reason they are looking south, among others of course.

Lol. That is largely what this discussion is based on. Those kids don't exist in large enough numbers any more.

 

[John]

I don't think we're really disagreeing. I don't think schools like UNH can compete directly with a directional state school like Southern or Eastern CT. I'm assuming that the latter are just as good (probably better) than UNH academically and I doubt UNH offers anything extra as far as student life or opportunities. I think schools like UNH are in trouble.

I'm looking more at a school like Fairfield University. I don't know much about Fairfield other than a lot of kids from our town go there. I wouldn't call it "elite." About $79k before any aid. Ranked 139th in National Universities. If a kid from NJ has no interest in a NJ state school, then he's comparing Fairfield vs out of state universities (like UConn) and the $20k per year difference may get shrunk by aid and it's a totally different academic/life experience.

There are plenty of people that have plenty of money. Their kid won't want to go to UNH or Eastern CT. They'll go out of state and that's who the private schools need to compete for.

DISCLOSURE: I have two kids in non-elite (I use the term "elite" sparingly) private colleges so I'm biased. I'm acknowledge I'm overpaying.

Fairfield has gotten much more competitive on admissions in the past few years, I believe they're down to a 25% acceptance rate these days.

 

[JohnFSilver]

No they don’t. It’s going to be like pushing a boulder uphill for the tiny private Catholics.

Crazy about Xavier. I really like the campus and Cincinnati a good town. I wonder if cost finally got to them.

 

[MUFan in CT]

Just a quick note for those that haven't gone through the college application / decision process recently. We're mixing arguments in this thread. Many are saying that private schools will fail because they are too expensive, but also acknowledging how many northern kids are going to southern public schools instead.

Private schools need to make themselves competitive with out of state public school costs and attraction. Xavier isn't far off on cost, but I don't know if Xavier is attractive as a school for kids not from OH. For comparison, here is Xavier vs. a couple options.

• Xavier tuition, fees, housing, meal plan: $67,256.
• UConn is $58,780.
• Clemson is $57,600.
• Alabama $50,458 (and that's not for the awesome greek houses or dorms)
• Georgia is $44,420 (bargain)
• Michigan is $80,208 (and $5k more for juniors and seniors).

EDIT: Also adding that private schools are generally more generous with merit and financial aid (other than Alabama that is throwing money at high achievers to improve their student body). I'd be surprised if the actual cost of attendance at Xavier for a strong candidate isn't the same or less than the out of state public schools.

Marquette alum here and a big CBB fan from Connecticut and also a parent of a recent Xavier grad ('23). I still live here and I'm disappointed this years UConn / Marquette game is at the Gampel (not that it will matter because MU is surprisingly really bad this year.) I'm a long time follower on the Boneyard for the differing Big East perspective from my home state and finally decided to register.

Neither of my daughters had interest in UConn because "everyone from my high school goes there." Both received really good financial packages from XU. My older daughter picked XU as she liked the campus and Cincinnati during the Fall Open House visit and the final cost was less than what it would have cost to attend UConn. Two years later, the younger daughter picked UVM because she wanted to do her own thing. I agree with whoever said Cincinnati is a great place to visit. OTR is a lot of fun and Reds tickets are cheap. My wife I eagerly went to Parents Weekend and tried to make a second Cincy visit for a game. CIncy is easy to drive to after you cross the Hudson. And if anyone wants to attend a road game at the Cintas, it's sad that the Listermann brewery 2 blocks away closed earlier this year.

I'm a big Marquette family as my younger brother is also an alum, as is my sister-in-law and my niece. My daughters had interest, but Marquette did not make such an attractive offer. My older daughter was especially interested who would have needed to take an additional $45k in student loans and her response was "I want to go there, but it's not worth that much additional debt."

Xavier gets about 15 students a year from Connecticut. Marquette probably only has 15 students total from Connecticut at one time. Supposedly the new Marquette President wants to change that and bring in more students from the Northeast.
I read somewhere recently that Xavier changed its student recruitment strategy 2-3 years ago and it obviously is a disaster.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Especially in the Northeast & Midwest. This is why I think the B1G needs to add UNC or some other southern school(s). Need more proximity to both students and recruits.

Droves of Michiganders, Ohioans Pennsylvanians, and Cheeseheads including Michigan, MSU, Ohio State, Penn State and Wisconsin alumni, have relocated to the Carolinas, Virginia, Georgia, etc. Plenty of B1G legacies, and others are potential prospective B1G school candidates, and UNC, UVA, or maybe NCSU, VT, and GT may enable continued strong alumni/donor relations opportunities in the Mid Atlantic & SE.

 

[upstater]

I'll play devil's advocate for a moment. Yes, many small schools may not survive. I think we are underestimating the number of kids who want to go to a small school, who want to play sports at the DIII level, and who come from families who like the "prestige" of going to a small private school. I know many kids are not getting into UConn these days and that is just one reason they are looking south, among others of course.

Some kids are actually looking for rigorous schools like this where they'll be far more likely to gain knowledge and learn skills. It's not that other schools don't give them an opportunity, but rigor matters.

I can say for certain that these smaller privates are sometimes much more rigorous than even AAU publics.

 

[upstater]

Lol. That is largely what this discussion is based on. Those kids don't exist in large enough numbers any more.

I don't think he's talking about Xavier. There has been no fall off at the prestigious schools. If anything they have become a lot more competitive. I say that because a school like Xavier admits north of 80%. Comparable schools in size like Wesleyan and Tufts (3,500 students like Xavier) are admitting 15% these days.

 

[CL82]

I can say for certain that these smaller privates are sometimes much more rigorous

 

[Sea Goat]

Yeah largely agree. Why would anyone go to a super-expensive mediocre private school when there's likely a more modest-ly priced, same-quality public school.

You mean like Syracuse at almost $90K a year?

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Crazy about Xavier. I wonder if cost finally got to them.

Don’t know much about Xavier nor whether the linked stats are correct, but if accurate accepting over 87% of applicants with enrollment of only 8.4% is less than impressive.

Demographic enrollment challenges? Net cost, even with aid? Declining interest in privates, including lesser than highest ranked Catholic schools? Reasonably good in-state publics?

College Compare Xavier, Hall, Jamaica CC, DePaul

 

[BlueandOG]

Some kids are actually looking for rigorous schools like this where they'll be far more likely to gain knowledge and learn skills. It's not that other schools don't give them an opportunity, but rigor matters.

I can say for certain that these smaller privates are sometimes much more rigorous than even AAU publics.

I teach at a small very selective private college, and I can attest from first hand experience that this is not true.

 

[Chuck]

You mean like Syracuse at almost $90K a year?

One of my kids looked at Syracuse. I was going to dissuade him (without saying no) from going, but he decided he wasn't interested on his own. Syracuse has the disadvantages of both a big state U and smaller private college without the advantages of either. Also, Syracuse has done a really good job having a few gold star programs (like Newhouse), but that's all they focus on during tours. My son asked about his major and the response was basically, "yeah, it's really good... the building is over there. Now let's show you our tv studio!"

I'm also curious to see what happens to Syracuse's yield this year. They played some crazy games with last second merit offers last year. It pissed off a lot of people who had already committed. I'd say you are a sucker if you commit to Syracuse before the last second (if at all) without a big merit package. They may be hitting their waitlist hard after May 1.

 

[upstater]

I teach at a small very selective private college, and I can attest from first hand experience that this is not true.

My comparisons: Penn State and U. Buffalo. Both AAU schools.

The amount of work completed by students at these schools is not even half what was expected at teaching stints at U. Rochester, Brown U., and Vassar. Wesleyan and Tufts are the same, but I've never taught there.

We've been asked to reduce our standards and our course expectations in terms of reading and writing requirements. The private schools I've listed assign weekly papers and exams in all classes.

I suppose the field you're in makes a huge difference, since a science and engineering school like Penn State or U. Buffalo should be more rigorous than taking a science path at a Liberal Arts College. But the opposite is true for the Social Sciences and Humanities. You'll find a much more difficult path at the elite privates.

 

[BlueandOG]

My comparisons: Penn State and U. Buffalo. Both AAU schools.

The amount of work completed by students at these schools is not even half what was expected at teaching stints at U. Rochester, Brown U., and Vassar. Wesleyan and Tufts are the same, but I've never taught there.

We've been asked to reduce our standards and our course expectations in terms of reading and writing requirements. The private schools I've listed assign weekly papers and exams in all classes.

I suppose the field you're in makes a huge difference, since a science and engineering school like Penn State or U. Buffalo should be more rigorous than taking a science path at a Liberal Arts College. But the opposite is true for the Social Sciences and Humanities. You'll find a much more difficult path at the elite privates.

Omg we have very similar experiences. I have to offer some of my graduate students a remedial writing crash course. Plus some of my students do not have due dates to complete work. Times have changed!

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I randomly picked a private school in CT and here's what I came up with ...

University of New Haven: 76th in US News (Regional Universities North), Tuition: 50k
Southern CT: 64th in same category, Tuition: 13k (27k out of state)
Eastern: 66th, 14k (18k)
FitchburgSt (MA): 72nd, 12k (18k)
Central: 76th, 13k (17k)

How is this sustainable for UNH?

Yes I know I'm looking at sticker price and not the actual price being paid. The former is easier to find quickly online.

The subsidies that enable the residential satellite public colleges have a huge bullseye on them at the state level in every state.

There is a consolidation wave hitting colleges, and the institutions will look very different in 10 and 20 years than they do today.

For example, it would not be shocking for University of Dayton and Xavier to merge. They are 50 miles apart, both Catholic, and it is tough to argue that they should be independent.

Likewise, why are there Connecticut state branches in both New Haven and New Britain? Why is there a public school in Storrs, and another In Willimantic?

This state subsidy issue is bigger unless affluent states. A lot is going to change.

 

[Kolumbo]

The subsidies that enable the residential satellite public colleges have a huge bullseye on them at the state level in every state.

There is a consolidation wave hitting colleges, and the institutions will look very different in 10 and 20 years than they do today.

For example, it would not be shocking for University of Dayton and Xavier to merge. They are 50 miles apart, both Catholic, and it is tough to argue that they should be independent.

Likewise, why are there Connecticut state branches in both New Haven and New Britain? Why is there a public school in Storrs, and another In Willimantic?

This state subsidy issue is bigger unless affluent states. A lot is going to change.

Connecticut did something which makes sense

Connecticut State Community College is now the entity formed in 2023 which merged all 12 of the community colleges in CT making it the largest community college in New England. 71k students with 18 campuses. It is part of the Connecticut State Colleges & Universities systems (CSCU) which includes Central, Eastern, Western and Southern CT State Universities

UConn and Eastern are very different but you know that. The CSCU system and Eastern are necessary because most of those kids can't get into UConn or can't afford it. They could probably further merge the 4 directional State U's but they are already part of the same system so who knows.

It's interesting how states operate differently. Florida public U's are all under the State University System of Florida. Texas has so many systems with multiple within each system.

Connecticut State Community College - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[shizzle787]

The subsidies that enable the residential satellite public colleges have a huge bullseye on them at the state level in every state.

There is a consolidation wave hitting colleges, and the institutions will look very different in 10 and 20 years than they do today.

For example, it would not be shocking for University of Dayton and Xavier to merge. They are 50 miles apart, both Catholic, and it is tough to argue that they should be independent.

Likewise, why are there Connecticut state branches in both New Haven and New Britain? Why is there a public school in Storrs, and another In Willimantic?

This state subsidy issue is bigger unless affluent states. A lot is going to change.

Charter Oak and CCSU should be merged.

I would argue UConn Avery Point should can sports as should Manchester CC.

You could make an argument to close WCSU if it gets an enrollment under 2,000 undergraduates.

Overall, the state of CT does a pretty good job with its organization of higher learning. There are a few head scratchers (Charter Oak and CCSU being separate institutions), but overall a solid job.