Xavier’s Enrollment Challenges

[JohnFSilver]

No they don’t. It’s going to be like pushing a boulder uphill for the tiny private Catholics.

Crazy about Xavier. I really like the campus and Cincinnati a good town. I wonder if cost finally got to them.

 

[MUFan in CT]

Just a quick note for those that haven't gone through the college application / decision process recently. We're mixing arguments in this thread. Many are saying that private schools will fail because they are too expensive, but also acknowledging how many northern kids are going to southern public schools instead.

Private schools need to make themselves competitive with out of state public school costs and attraction. Xavier isn't far off on cost, but I don't know if Xavier is attractive as a school for kids not from OH. For comparison, here is Xavier vs. a couple options.

• Xavier tuition, fees, housing, meal plan: $67,256.
• UConn is $58,780.
• Clemson is $57,600.
• Alabama $50,458 (and that's not for the awesome greek houses or dorms)
• Georgia is $44,420 (bargain)
• Michigan is $80,208 (and $5k more for juniors and seniors).

EDIT: Also adding that private schools are generally more generous with merit and financial aid (other than Alabama that is throwing money at high achievers to improve their student body). I'd be surprised if the actual cost of attendance at Xavier for a strong candidate isn't the same or less than the out of state public schools.

Marquette alum here and a big CBB fan from Connecticut and also a parent of a recent Xavier grad ('23). I still live here and I'm disappointed this years UConn / Marquette game is at the Gampel (not that it will matter because MU is surprisingly really bad this year.) I'm a long time follower on the Boneyard for the differing Big East perspective from my home state and finally decided to register.

Neither of my daughters had interest in UConn because "everyone from my high school goes there." Both received really good financial packages from XU. My older daughter picked XU as she liked the campus and Cincinnati during the Fall Open House visit and the final cost was less than what it would have cost to attend UConn. Two years later, the younger daughter picked UVM because she wanted to do her own thing. I agree with whoever said Cincinnati is a great place to visit. OTR is a lot of fun and Reds tickets are cheap. My wife I eagerly went to Parents Weekend and tried to make a second Cincy visit for a game. CIncy is easy to drive to after you cross the Hudson. And if anyone wants to attend a road game at the Cintas, it's sad that the Listermann brewery 2 blocks away closed earlier this year.

I'm a big Marquette family as my younger brother is also an alum, as is my sister-in-law and my niece. My daughters had interest, but Marquette did not make such an attractive offer. My older daughter was especially interested who would have needed to take an additional $45k in student loans and her response was "I want to go there, but it's not worth that much additional debt."

Xavier gets about 15 students a year from Connecticut. Marquette probably only has 15 students total from Connecticut at one time. Supposedly the new Marquette President wants to change that and bring in more students from the Northeast.
I read somewhere recently that Xavier changed its student recruitment strategy 2-3 years ago and it obviously is a disaster.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Especially in the Northeast & Midwest. This is why I think the B1G needs to add UNC or some other southern school(s). Need more proximity to both students and recruits.

Droves of Michiganders, Ohioans Pennsylvanians, and Cheeseheads including Michigan, MSU, Ohio State, Penn State and Wisconsin alumni, have relocated to the Carolinas, Virginia, Georgia, etc. Plenty of B1G legacies, and others are potential prospective B1G school candidates, and UNC, UVA, or maybe NCSU, VT, and GT may enable continued strong alumni/donor relations opportunities in the Mid Atlantic & SE.

 

[upstater]

I'll play devil's advocate for a moment. Yes, many small schools may not survive. I think we are underestimating the number of kids who want to go to a small school, who want to play sports at the DIII level, and who come from families who like the "prestige" of going to a small private school. I know many kids are not getting into UConn these days and that is just one reason they are looking south, among others of course.

Some kids are actually looking for rigorous schools like this where they'll be far more likely to gain knowledge and learn skills. It's not that other schools don't give them an opportunity, but rigor matters.

I can say for certain that these smaller privates are sometimes much more rigorous than even AAU publics.

 

[upstater]

Lol. That is largely what this discussion is based on. Those kids don't exist in large enough numbers any more.

I don't think he's talking about Xavier. There has been no fall off at the prestigious schools. If anything they have become a lot more competitive. I say that because a school like Xavier admits north of 80%. Comparable schools in size like Wesleyan and Tufts (3,500 students like Xavier) are admitting 15% these days.

 

[CL82]

I can say for certain that these smaller privates are sometimes much more rigorous

 

[Sea Goat]

Yeah largely agree. Why would anyone go to a super-expensive mediocre private school when there's likely a more modest-ly priced, same-quality public school.

You mean like Syracuse at almost $90K a year?

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Crazy about Xavier. I wonder if cost finally got to them.

Don’t know much about Xavier nor whether the linked stats are correct, but if accurate accepting over 87% of applicants with enrollment of only 8.4% is less than impressive.

Demographic enrollment challenges? Net cost, even with aid? Declining interest in privates, including lesser than highest ranked Catholic schools? Reasonably good in-state publics?

College Compare Xavier, Hall, Jamaica CC, DePaul

 

[BlueandOG]

Some kids are actually looking for rigorous schools like this where they'll be far more likely to gain knowledge and learn skills. It's not that other schools don't give them an opportunity, but rigor matters.

I can say for certain that these smaller privates are sometimes much more rigorous than even AAU publics.

I teach at a small very selective private college, and I can attest from first hand experience that this is not true.

 

[Chuck]

You mean like Syracuse at almost $90K a year?

One of my kids looked at Syracuse. I was going to dissuade him (without saying no) from going, but he decided he wasn't interested on his own. Syracuse has the disadvantages of both a big state U and smaller private college without the advantages of either. Also, Syracuse has done a really good job having a few gold star programs (like Newhouse), but that's all they focus on during tours. My son asked about his major and the response was basically, "yeah, it's really good... the building is over there. Now let's show you our tv studio!"

I'm also curious to see what happens to Syracuse's yield this year. They played some crazy games with last second merit offers last year. It pissed off a lot of people who had already committed. I'd say you are a sucker if you commit to Syracuse before the last second (if at all) without a big merit package. They may be hitting their waitlist hard after May 1.

 

[upstater]

I teach at a small very selective private college, and I can attest from first hand experience that this is not true.

My comparisons: Penn State and U. Buffalo. Both AAU schools.

The amount of work completed by students at these schools is not even half what was expected at teaching stints at U. Rochester, Brown U., and Vassar. Wesleyan and Tufts are the same, but I've never taught there.

We've been asked to reduce our standards and our course expectations in terms of reading and writing requirements. The private schools I've listed assign weekly papers and exams in all classes.

I suppose the field you're in makes a huge difference, since a science and engineering school like Penn State or U. Buffalo should be more rigorous than taking a science path at a Liberal Arts College. But the opposite is true for the Social Sciences and Humanities. You'll find a much more difficult path at the elite privates.

 

[BlueandOG]

My comparisons: Penn State and U. Buffalo. Both AAU schools.

The amount of work completed by students at these schools is not even half what was expected at teaching stints at U. Rochester, Brown U., and Vassar. Wesleyan and Tufts are the same, but I've never taught there.

We've been asked to reduce our standards and our course expectations in terms of reading and writing requirements. The private schools I've listed assign weekly papers and exams in all classes.

I suppose the field you're in makes a huge difference, since a science and engineering school like Penn State or U. Buffalo should be more rigorous than taking a science path at a Liberal Arts College. But the opposite is true for the Social Sciences and Humanities. You'll find a much more difficult path at the elite privates.

Omg we have very similar experiences. I have to offer some of my graduate students a remedial writing crash course. Plus some of my students do not have due dates to complete work. Times have changed!

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I randomly picked a private school in CT and here's what I came up with ...

University of New Haven: 76th in US News (Regional Universities North), Tuition: 50k
Southern CT: 64th in same category, Tuition: 13k (27k out of state)
Eastern: 66th, 14k (18k)
FitchburgSt (MA): 72nd, 12k (18k)
Central: 76th, 13k (17k)

How is this sustainable for UNH?

Yes I know I'm looking at sticker price and not the actual price being paid. The former is easier to find quickly online.

The subsidies that enable the residential satellite public colleges have a huge bullseye on them at the state level in every state.

There is a consolidation wave hitting colleges, and the institutions will look very different in 10 and 20 years than they do today.

For example, it would not be shocking for University of Dayton and Xavier to merge. They are 50 miles apart, both Catholic, and it is tough to argue that they should be independent.

Likewise, why are there Connecticut state branches in both New Haven and New Britain? Why is there a public school in Storrs, and another In Willimantic?

This state subsidy issue is bigger unless affluent states. A lot is going to change.

 

[Kolumbo]

The subsidies that enable the residential satellite public colleges have a huge bullseye on them at the state level in every state.

There is a consolidation wave hitting colleges, and the institutions will look very different in 10 and 20 years than they do today.

For example, it would not be shocking for University of Dayton and Xavier to merge. They are 50 miles apart, both Catholic, and it is tough to argue that they should be independent.

Likewise, why are there Connecticut state branches in both New Haven and New Britain? Why is there a public school in Storrs, and another In Willimantic?

This state subsidy issue is bigger unless affluent states. A lot is going to change.

Connecticut did something which makes sense

Connecticut State Community College is now the entity formed in 2023 which merged all 12 of the community colleges in CT making it the largest community college in New England. 71k students with 18 campuses. It is part of the Connecticut State Colleges & Universities systems (CSCU) which includes Central, Eastern, Western and Southern CT State Universities

UConn and Eastern are very different but you know that. The CSCU system and Eastern are necessary because most of those kids can't get into UConn or can't afford it. They could probably further merge the 4 directional State U's but they are already part of the same system so who knows.

It's interesting how states operate differently. Florida public U's are all under the State University System of Florida. Texas has so many systems with multiple within each system.

Connecticut State Community College - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[shizzle787]

The subsidies that enable the residential satellite public colleges have a huge bullseye on them at the state level in every state.

There is a consolidation wave hitting colleges, and the institutions will look very different in 10 and 20 years than they do today.

For example, it would not be shocking for University of Dayton and Xavier to merge. They are 50 miles apart, both Catholic, and it is tough to argue that they should be independent.

Likewise, why are there Connecticut state branches in both New Haven and New Britain? Why is there a public school in Storrs, and another In Willimantic?

This state subsidy issue is bigger unless affluent states. A lot is going to change.

Charter Oak and CCSU should be merged.

I would argue UConn Avery Point should can sports as should Manchester CC.

You could make an argument to close WCSU if it gets an enrollment under 2,000 undergraduates.

Overall, the state of CT does a pretty good job with its organization of higher learning. There are a few head scratchers (Charter Oak and CCSU being separate institutions), but overall a solid job.

 

[SU1968]

Charter Oak and CCSU should be merged.

I would argue UConn Avery Point should can sports as should Manchester CC.

You could make an argument to close WCSU if it gets an enrollment under 2,000 undergraduates.

Overall, the state of CT does a pretty good job with its organization of higher learning. There are a few head scratchers (Charter Oak and CCSU being separate institutions), but overall a solid job.

If the state of CT is like other states, many of these decisions are for political reasons, not academic ones.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Charter Oak and CCSU should be merged.

I would argue UConn Avery Point should can sports as should Manchester CC.

You could make an argument to close WCSU if it gets an enrollment under 2,000 undergraduates.

Overall, the state of CT does a pretty good job with its organization of higher learning. There are a few head scratchers (Charter Oak and CCSU being separate institutions), but overall a solid job.

Charter Oak has shown the most growth in the CSCU over the past 5 years. It is the only institution in the group that has grown compared to pre-covid numbers, and it requires must smaller investment from the state. I think UConn should buy it from the state to create UConn Global.

 

[JwittersPAC]

Charter Oak has shown the most growth in the CSCU over the past 5 years. It is the only institution in the group that has grown compared to pre-covid numbers, and it requires must smaller investment from the state. I think UConn should buy it from the state to create UConn Global.

What is UConn using for funds to purchase Charter Oak? UConn is currently running a deficit.

 

[CL82]

What is UConn using for funds to purchase Charter Oak? UConn is currently running a deficit.

From the state, obviously. Not that I'm advocating the purchase of Charter Oak.

The statement that UConn is running a deficit really does an adequately explain just how big and how valuable the university is. It has over 5 billion in total assets and about 1.3 billion in operating and non-operating revenues. It is a huge economic engine for the state.

2024 fiscal year financials

 

[JwittersPAC]

From the state, obviously. Not that I'm advocating the purchase of Charter Oak.

The statement that UConn is running a deficit really does an adequately explain just how big and how valuable the university is. It has over 5 billion in total assets and about 1.3 billion in operating and non-operating revenues. It is a huge economic engine for the state.

2024 fiscal year financials

Again not disagreeing. The state of CT would just merge Charter Oak into UConn. UConn would not purchase Charter Oak.

 

[CL82]

Again not disagreeing. The state of CT would just merge Charter Oak into UConn. UConn would not purchase Charter Oak.

Agree, but as noted above, I don't see any reason for it organizationally.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Again not disagreeing. The state of CT would just merge Charter Oak into UConn. UConn would not purchase Charter Oak.

2 different systems

 

[freescooter]

I doubt that more than an odd student or two is swapping Yale, Harvard, Princeton or Penn for UGA or Alabama. If they are then they really need better advisors.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I doubt that more than an odd student or two is swapping Yale, Harvard, Princeton or Penn for UGA or Alabama. If they are then they really need better advisors.

That X article said Danbury, not Darien.

 

[ZooCougar]

That X article said Danbury, not Darien.

Yeah it was a joke. I think the choice of town had more to do with ignorance of CT than where these kids are coming from.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Yeah it was a joke. I think the choice of town had more to do with ignorance of CT than where these kids are coming from.

Zoo, I was criticizing Scooter, not you.

I know of a few Stamford families (some friends, some work colleagues) who have sent their kids to South Carolina (Gamecocks), that school has become quite popular here over the past dozen or so years.

The atmosphere at southern schools is very different from the northeast and i can see why college aged kids would be attracted to those schools.

To Scooter's point, no, someone looking into an ivy league school most likely wouldn't want the large southern school feel, but that isn't who southern schools are targeting (and yes, there has been a large, comprehensive outreach from those schools to attract northeast students).

 

[Chin Diesel]

Zoo, I was criticizing Scooter, not you.

I know of a few Stamford families (some friends, some work colleagues) who have sent their kids to South Carolina (Gamecocks), that school has become quite popular here over the past dozen or so years.

The atmosphere at southern schools is very different from the northeast and i can see why college aged kids would be attracted to those schools.

To Scooter's point, no, someone looking into an ivy league school most likely wouldn't want the large southern school feel, but that isn't who southern schools are targeting (and yes, there has been a large, comprehensive outreach from those schools to attract northeast students).

Right. The Southern schools are poaching those mid level kids to go to State U for $30k instead of some private school in Northeast for$70k+.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Right. The Southern schools are poaching those mid level kids to go to State U for $30k instead of some private school in Northeast for$70k+.

Chin, when you have a little time check out the annual, all in costs of mid-level private schools in the northeast. You won't find many at the price you quoted. Most are 15% - 20% higher.

When my son (recently turned 30) was early in high school I started investigating different schools up here (won't name any as I don't want to offend anyone who may h ave gone to one). I was stunned at the cost of some of the private schools that had run of the mill acceptance standards/academic standing. I can understand a few private schools up here charging a premium rate, but I stated many times "I refuse to pay a premium for mediocrity".

The thing is many of those schools exist solely because of affluent families who feel it is beneath them to send their kid (who couldn't get into a school of choice) to a public university. I can name close to a dozen $90k a year schools up here that won't give a better education than Southern CT or Central CT, but fir the students who attend those schools, a directional state school would dishonor the family name.

 

[ZooCougar]

Zoo, I was criticizing Scooter, not you.

I know of a few Stamford families (some friends, some work colleagues) who have sent their kids to South Carolina (Gamecocks), that school has become quite popular here over the past dozen or so years.

The atmosphere at southern schools is very different from the northeast and i can see why college aged kids would be attracted to those schools.

To Scooter's point, no, someone looking into an ivy league school most likely wouldn't want the large southern school feel, but that isn't who southern schools are targeting (and yes, there has been a large, comprehensive outreach from those schools to attract northeast students).

I know. I just think it’s funny that people in other parts of the country think we all went to Ivy League schools.

I went south for school too. I get the allure.

 

[CL82]

I know. I just think it’s funny that people in other parts of the country think we all went to Ivy League schools.

I went south for school too. I get the allure.

I have to laugh when people think that Rutgers is an Ivy League school. Amazingly, it happens more than you would think.

(What it's worth that's not a knock on Rutgers, which is a decent school, rather it's commentary that a northeast school name which doesn't include a state name is presumed to be an Ivy.)