OT: WWC (Soccer) Thread

[HuskyNan]

I’m at a bar at JFK and the entire place cheered for the first goal. It was great to see the patrons insist on changing the channel to the game

 

[SWHuskyFan]

Kind of disappointed, Sweden is obviously more scared of France than the US. Hard to get too excited about a game that your opponent isn't trying to win.

 

[eebmg]

Kind of disappointed, Sweden is obviously more scared of France than the US. Hard to get too excited about a game that your opponent isn't trying to win.

Disagree. Sweden is simply being out-hustled and out-manned. I was very impressed with the linking play, sharp diagonal passing out of the back, working out of high line traps etc. And Rose Lavelle is a revelation to me. She is fantastic and in my opinion the best player in this game. The only issue I have is the US not getting open shots on frame.

 

[SWHuskyFan]

Disagree if you like, they benched a lot of their starters. If they really wanted to win the game they wouldn’t have done that.

 

[eebmg]

Tobin Heath with a great audacious goal. Survives a VAR challenge.

 

[SWHuskyFan]

That was a great goal. I don’t understand soccer rules as well as I wish I did. It seems to me that we were offside. I don’t know what the problem was. She was clearly offside and drew 2 defenders. She didn’t touch the ball but I didn’t think that was necessary to be offsides.

 

[eebmg]

Chile misses out of the Knock out stage. Needed a 3 goal win against Thailand but could only get a 2-0 win so Nigeria sneaks in. Chile had so many chances including an unconverted Penalty Kick and shots off the wood work.

 

[Plebe]

Chile misses out of the Knock out stage. Needed a 3 goal win against Thailand but could only get a 2-0 win so Nigeria sneaks in. Chile had so many chances including an unconverted Penalty Kick and shots off the wood work.

Wow, two African countries just baaaaarely squeaking in. Cameroon on a goal in literally the last few seconds, and Nigeria on goal differential by 1 goal.

And the two South American countries barely fall short. Chile misses a late PK that would've put them through.

I'm glad there's at least a modicum of diversity among the 16 surviving teams.

 

[stamfordhusky]

That was a great goal. I don’t understand soccer rules as well as I wish I did. It seems to me that we were offside. I don’t know what the problem was. She was clearly offside and drew 2 defenders. She didn’t touch the ball but I didn’t think that was necessary to be offsides.

It's not as simple as that. She wasn't clearly "offside", rather she was clearly in an offside position - which is totally different and not a rules violation by itself. Given that she was in an offside position, to be flagged for offside in this situation, she would have to be "interfering with an opponent" in one of four possible ways:

1. preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
2. challenging an opponent for the ball or
3. clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
4. making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball.

It is clear that #1 and #2 do not apply. As for #3, Lloyd really made no attempt to play the ball and wasn't really that close to the defender who did play it. And for #4, I don't see her doing anything that clearly impacted the ability of the Swede to play the ball since she was well behind that player and didn't challenge for the ball. Thus I would agree with the VAR crew and with the Fox rules "expert" to allow the goal. Having said that, I could see a ref in real time opting to call it offside.

 

[Bama fan]

It's not as simple as that. She wasn't clearly "offside", rather she was clearly in an offside position - which is totally different and not a rules violation by itself. Given that she was in an offside position, to be flagged for offside in this situation, she would have to be "interfering with an opponent" in one of four possible ways:

1. preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
2. challenging an opponent for the ball or
3. clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
4. making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball.

It is clear that #1 and #2 do not apply. As for #3, Lloyd really made no attempt to play the ball and wasn't really that close to the defender who did play it. And for #4, I don't see her doing anything that clearly impacted the ability of the Swede to play the ball since she was well behind that player and didn't challenge for the ball. Thus I would agree with the VAR crew and with the Fox rules "expert" to allow the goal. Having said that, I could see a ref in real time opting to call it offside.

I certainly could not argue with your analysis of the offsides. . But that goal by Tobin Heath was a thing of beauty. Such a small angle in which to score. Go USA!

 

[SWHuskyFan]

Thanks for taking the time to explain that.They also changed the goal to an own goal, the defender got a toe on it.

 

[Bama fan]

I’m at a bar at JFK and the entire place cheered for the first goal. It was great to see the patrons insist on changing the channel to the game

Slainte mhaith! Drink up and enjoy!

 

[UcMiami]

Thanks for taking the time to explain that.They also changed the goal to an own goal, the defender got a toe on it.

It was a nice goal, but it clearly deflected off the defenders leg to loop over the goalie - if not for the deflection I think the goalie had it covered as it would have been into her body. I think FIFA got it right changing it to an 'own goal' according to the rules.

It used to be any player who was in an off side position when a ball was played anywhere near them stopped play for an off side. The rule was change years ago and leaves a lot of discretion to the officials. Though for defenders and especially for goalies, but increases speed of play and adds a few more goals to what is a low scoring sport.

 

[stamfordhusky]

It was a nice goal, but it clearly deflected off the defenders leg to loop over the goalie - if not for the deflection I think the goalie had it covered as it would have been into her body. I think FIFA got it right changing it to an 'own goal' according to the rules.

Could you quote the rule for determining an own goal? I have never seen anything put out by FIFA, and if there is something, I would love to see it. UEFA, which is the second most prestigious soccer governing organization, a number of years ago put out an official definition. Under the UEFA definition - which I think is appropriate - it is not an own goal if a shot is already on goal prior to any deflection. Under that definition I think Heath should have received credit for the goal, as it appears her initial shot would have been on goal prior to the deflection that elevated it. According to UEFA, it is not the job of the statistician or referee to guess whether the keeper would have made the save absent a deflection.

 

[Plebe]

Could you quote the rule for determining an own goal? I have never seen anything put out by FIFA, and if there is something, I would love to see it. UEFA, which is the second most prestigious soccer governing organization, a number of years ago put out an official definition. Under the UEFA definition - which I think is appropriate - it is not an own goal if a shot is already on goal prior to any deflection. Under that definition I think Heath should have received credit for the goal, as it appears her initial shot would have been on goal prior to the deflection that elevated it. According to UEFA, it is not the job of the statistician or referee to guess whether the keeper would have made the save absent a deflection.

AFAIK there is nothing in the rulebook ("Laws of the Game") about this. And according to Wikipedia:

The Laws do not stipulate any rules or procedures for crediting goals to players, and indeed such records are not a compulsory part of the game.[13] In 1997 FIFA issued detailed guidelines for crediting own goals, recognising the increasing commercial importance of statistics such as top scorer awards and fantasy football.[13] The guidelines state that credit for scoring is decided by the referee, or match commissioner if present; and "[a] defender's intervention must be deliberate in order for an own goal to be registered against him".[13] Regarding a shot which deflects or ricochets into the goal off a defender, some sources credit the score to the attacker; others count them as own goals; for others it depends on whether the original shot was off target; others are more nuanced.[13]​

​

 

[eebmg]

Germany up 2-0 after 27' and Germany is not even playing anywhere near their potential. Bad Penalty by Nigeria with a very dangerous kick to the knee led to second goal.

 

[eebmg]

Norway - Australia headed to penalty kicks. Aussies survived playing the full overtime with 10 players.

Edit: OMG. Kerr in the poll position flubs the penalty kick real bad.

Edit. Norway perfect on penalties. Aussies missed another one. Norway advances. They deserved it.

 

[JordyG]

Norway - Australia headed to penalty kicks. Aussies survived playing the full overtime with 10 players.

Edit: OMG. Kerr in the poll position flubs the penalty kick real bad.

Had to leave before the PK's. Australia certainly had their chances to win outright though.

 

[eebmg]

Had to leave before the PK's. Australia certainly had their chances to win outright though.

The game was played like the Wild West on both sides. Many chances on both sides.

 

[triaddukefan]

Norway - Australia headed to penalty kicks. Aussies survived playing the full overtime with 10 players.

Edit: OMG. Kerr in the poll position flubs the penalty kick real bad.

Edit. Norway perfect on penalties. Aussies missed another one. Norway advances. They deserved it.

Aint Kerr the one with the big mouth.... spouting about something a few games ago after they won?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Nerves really ramp up in penalty kick time. Her kick was so bad, it was maybe 10 feet over the goal! I couldn't believe it.

 

[oldude]

Nerves really ramp up in penalty kick time. Her kick was so bad, it was maybe 10 feet over the goal! I couldn't believe it.

I remember a men’s World Cup some years back when David Beckham, playing for England, flew a penalty kick well over the top of the goal. He had been living in the US and playing for the LA team for several years. A Brit I worked with explained Beckham’s miscue by suggesting that living in the US Beckham had become confused by watching too much American football...

 

[stamfordhusky]

Nerves really ramp up in penalty kick time. Her kick was so bad, it was maybe 10 feet over the goal! I couldn't believe it.

Under the extreme pressure of a World Cup shootout, a number of players have done that. Only the most courageous ones even dare to shoot high in a big situation because it is so easy to get slightly too far under the ball and sky it 10+ feet over the goal. One of the most famous misses was in the 1994 WC Final when Roberto Baggio, who was the world's POY in 1993, hit it about 15 feet over the top on a kick that had to be made to prolong the shootout vs Brazil. He still made the all-star team for that WC and won the Silver Ball.

 

[Plebe]

Under the extreme pressure of a World Cup shootout, a number of players have done that. Only the most courageous ones even dare to shoot high in a big situation because it is so easy to get slightly too far under the ball and sky it 10+ feet over the goal. One of the most famous misses was in the 1994 WC Final when Roberto Baggio, who was the world's POY in 1993, hit it about 15 feet over the top on a kick that had to be made to prolong the shootout vs Brazil. He still made the all-star team for that WC and won the Silver Ball.

And debate continues to this day whether Baggio was undone by the pressure or by that horrendous haircut.

 

[warbler1055]

In the excellent and well fought game Australia vs Norway, the best player for the Aussies sent the ball high over the bar during the PK tie breaker and pretty much ensured their defeat.