WNBA Finals - Sun v. Aces

[triaddukefan]

Ok... I promise this will be my last Chelsea Gray post in this thread

 

[UConnCat]

Well since y'all won't let this go, I never said the CT players weren't likeable. I only pointed out the Vegas team as a whole has a more outgoing personality as a whole that appeals to the media.

One player alone doesn't sway the needle alone for the rest of the team, especially one who is hardly ever pushed forward by the organization like a Wilson, Plum , Hamby or Gray. The irony in the unnecessary digs at Riquana, is that her personality would be a perfect fit at CT, she's a very hard nosed player who is not really big on the shenanigans like the bulk of the Vegas squad and saying this doesn't mean its the diss you're making it out to be.

I think we can all agree that the entire likability discussion, which you started, btw, is ridiculous.

I was simply noting the irony of an Aces player I find unlikable (I confess to having a bias against people who threaten others with a gun) was in fact the hero of today's game.

 

[GCKSFN4L]

I think we can all agree that the entire likability discussion, which you started, btw, is ridiculous.

I was simply noting the irony of an Aces player I find unlikable (I confess to having a bias against people who threaten others with a gun) was in fact the hero of today's game.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, the more personable franchise players are, the more likely the media at large and people are more likely to root for said team, which was the whole point in my bringing it up as to why it seems as though everyone was rooting for Vegas. Riquana has had her issues, just like many other players in the league over the years, but she hardly is a factor when it comes to the team at large in that department because like I said they rarely ever promote her or push her in the forefront and if we're being honest she's was largely irrelevant for about 90% of the season as well. A much better example of this would have Liz who was actually one of the faces of the Aces with a questionable personality.

 

[bballnut90]

Ok... I promise this will be my last Chelsea Gray post in this thread

Keep the Gray posts coming, they're well deserved. Every single playoff game she shot over 50% from the floor, and the majority of her shots were tough contested looks. She did better shooting with a hand in her face creating off the dribble than she does catch and shoot. Final playoff stats were 21.7 points per game and 7 assists per game on 61% FG, 54% 3pt, and 83% FT. Instead of the 50/40/90 goal she reached 60/50 which is unreal. Could've gone to Wilson who was also spectacular but Gray was on a different level.

 

[bballnut90]

Not gonna lie, these finals were extremely underwhelming until the 4th quarter today. Lots of defense, bad offense, and not a lot of players consistently stepping up aside from Gray/Wilson/Thomas. Neither team was firing on all cylinders and the series overall definitely pales in comparison to the Storm/Aces semis. That said, the 4th quarter today was phenomenal. Connecticut looked prime to send the series to 5, but then Riquna Williams single-handedly took over the last 2 minutes, scoring 8 points in 68 seconds to retake the lead and seal the win. Plum also hit a huge bucket and A'ja Wilson made a couple of key defensive plays. Big efforts from a number of players.

Happy to see the Aces take it home, Gray and Wilson deserve a title after their efforts this post season. I think these playoffs has established Gray as a legendary playmaker and PG in the league, I don't think there's ever been a PG in the league with her sense of flair, ability to create and her ability to score, not to mention her insane clutch streak. As far Wilson, this definitely puts her in an elite category of players. In just her 5th year she's won 2 MVPS, played in 2 finals, won a title and Vegas seems primed to win a few more with their stacked roster. She'll quickly work her way up the all time ranks.

Also thrilled for Hammon to come in and make her mark on the league. I hope she gets her crack at coaching an NBA team if that's what she's looking to accomplish. Seems like she has a lot of respect from NBA players and fans. Anytime I see something women's basketball related from Bleacher Report or ESPN, Facebook comments are generally flooded with sexist comments but anytime it's about Hammon the comments usually allude to her being able to coach in the NBA. Would love to see her continue to break barriers if that's what she wants to do. Otherwise, if she wants to attempt creating the next WNBA dynasty I am all for that as well.


In regards to Connecticut, I think this may have been their last real shot unless they do some roster revamping. They had a great year and have a lot of talent but they don't have any strong up and coming players and I think they'll fall behind the likes of Vegas and potentially NY (if Stewart goes there) as a lot of their players are hitting their prime while a lot of Sun players are past theirs.

 

[DeeHusky]

Shoutout to Aja Wilson; epitome of a true #1 ranking from hoopgurlz. It has shown over time. She just keeps getting better. She deserves that statue for all that she’s done.

 

[Bald Husky]

I said it at the beginning of the season that the Sun lack 3-point shooting. They were missing Jasmine Thomas, but she isn't the answer either. The Aces killed them on the perimeter which made it tough to stay with them. Hats off to AT, not only being the first player in WNBA history to record a triple-double in the final but backing it up with another on Sunday. That would be 4 on the season, breaking her own record of 3 that she set Thursday. I think the Sun need a new PG, as well as one or two 3 point shooters. Bonner has had a great career, but she is too inconsistent and turnover prone. Heideman is a good back-up, but not good enough to be the starting PG. Unfortunately, they will be drafting almost last in the draft again which does not bode well for getting a really good player. Maybe it's time to give Nia Clouden a shot.

 

[bbsamjj]

The Sun are an interesting conundrum. They've been so close for so long that it's hard to think about breaking up the roster when it's a roster that's brought you to 4 straight semifinals, and two finals in those 4 years (Losing to DC in 5 and Vegas in 4, never as the higher seed). Getting Courtney Williams back was a huge upgrade over January, but then they lost Thomas so early in the season. WE'll see if they're able to keep B. Jones--she's going to get thrown a lot of money this offseason. Carrington showed promise this year; if she can continue to develop, she could be a dynamic threat. But i'm not sure what the solution is unless they somehow find a way to get Jewell Loyd to come.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

The Sun are an interesting conundrum. They've been so close for so long that it's hard to think about breaking up the roster when it's a roster that's brought you to 4 straight semifinals, and two finals in those 4 years (Losing to DC in 5 and Vegas in 4, never as the higher seed).

My post last week concerned maybe it's time to think about what they could be missing. There are of course no guarantees of healthy, chemistry, or year to year success but I think it's worth a conversation to move one of the front court players for a young guard who is a consistent shooter and scorer. I have no issue with the Sun franchise or the players but I'd say it's time to see what could be received for B Jones, J Jones, or Bonner. Thomas is simply too valuable to give up.

Vegas at present is loaded and Hammon was the icing on the cake. I believe over the years there have been too many coaching hires in every franchise that were like "hmmm well someone has to go there" (Nygard and Fisher are the two most recent but there have been dozens in the league's history). Hammon is a legit basketball coach who played then learned from one of the best in the NBA. Her roster is stacked for sure but someone has to make it all fit together. She deserves credit for that.

 

[cancontent]

My post last week concerned maybe it's time to think about what they could be missing. There are of course no guarantees of healthy, chemistry, or year to year success but I think it's worth a conversation to move one of the front court players for a young guard who is a consistent shooter and scorer. I have no issue with the Sun franchise or the players but I'd say it's time to see what could be received for B Jones, J Jones, or Bonner. Thomas is simply too valuable to give up.

Vegas at present is loaded and Hammon was the icing on the cake. I believe over the years there have been too many coaching hires in every franchise that were like "hmmm well someone has to go there" (Nygard and Fisher are the two most recent but there have been dozens in the league's history). Hammon is a legit basketball coach who played then learned from one of the best in the NBA. Her roster is stacked for sure but someone has to make it all fit together. She deserves credit for that.

Agree 100%. The front office also deserves some kudos as Fargas, Williams and Laimbeer (while there) have had an effect on this roster and how the team operates. Mr. Davis made some sound decisions when he bought the team.

 

[Aluminny69]

Congratulations, Becky Hammon!

 

[Waquoit]

I don't think the Sun need to blow it up but they do need to add some offense. I find the team very likeable.

 

[cancontent]

I don't think the Sun need to blow it up but they do need to add some offense. I find the team very likeable.

Rebuilding for the sake of rebuilding doesn't make sense to me either. Some of their adjustments helped (e.g. resigning Williams). Unfortunately, injuries hampered them in other areas. Hopefully they don't take a drastic approach because, like you, I think they're close.

 

[MSGRET]

Congratulations, Becky Hammon!

View attachment 79160

First professional championship for the City of Las Vegas. Hammon changed the way the Aces play basketball. She did the exact opposite of what Laimbeer had been doing the previous years. She made it harder to play against them by spreading the floor, sharing the ball, and embracing the 3pt shot by letting the players shoot if they're open.

But this wouldn't have happened if Mark Davis had not bought the team in 2021, he bought them from MGM Resorts. MGM didn't really support them the way a pro team should be supported. Davis came in spent the money to improve their program from the bottom up, new and better equipment, better conditions and real support. He stated when he bought the team the following "These women can be such a value for our community as a whole. Get them working with kids and at clinics and making enough money so they don't have to also go over to Europe to play.

There is going to be a parade this Tuesday on at 5:30 P.M. on the Southbound portion of the Strip. It will close between Flamingo Road and Bellagio Drive from 6:00 A.M. to 11:00 P.M., the parade will last about an hour.

 

[cancontent]

First professional championship for the City of Las Vegas. Hammon changed the way the Aces play basketball. She did the exact opposite of what Laimbeer had been doing the previous years. She made it harder to play against them by spreading the floor, sharing the ball, and embracing the 3pt shot by letting the players shoot if they're open.

But this wouldn't have happened if Mark Davis had not bought the team in 2021, he bought them from MGM Resorts. MGM didn't really support them the way a pro team should be supported. Davis came in spent the money to improve their program from the bottom up, new and better equipment, better conditions and real support. He stated when he bought the team the following "These women can be such a value for our community as a whole. Get them working with kids and at clinics and making enough money so they don't have to also go over to Europe to play.

There is going to be a parade this Tuesday on at 5:30 P.M. on the Southbound portion of the Strip. It will close between Flamingo Road and Bellagio Drive from 6:00 A.M. to 11:00 P.M., the parade will last about an hour.

1) Sometimes I wish there was a fire option when liking a post because this is a huge component for Vegas' success. Definitely a chip of the old block as they say when you think of how his father structured the Raiders and built his front office staff. Not always perfect but he invested in a lot of talented people who helped make the franchise what they are.

2) The parade may be an hour, however the pre-parade celebrations could be epic (within reason I hope) .

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Rebuilding for the sake of rebuilding doesn't make sense to me either. Some of their adjustments helped (e.g. resigning Williams). Unfortunately, injuries hampered them in other areas. Hopefully they don't take a drastic approach because, like you, I think they're close.

There definitely shouldn't be a complete rebuild but I maintain the idea of moving one of the front court rotation players for a younger guard should be considered IMO.

 

[cancontent]

There definitely shouldn't be a complete rebuild but I maintain the idea of moving one of the front court rotation players for a younger guard should be considered IMO.

This isn't drastic in my mind, unless it's Jonquel Jones being considered. That would be drastic.

 

[nwhoopfan]

This isn't drastic in my mind, unless it's Jonquel Jones being considered. That would be drastic.

As good as JJ is, I think A. Thomas is their most irreplaceable player, by a wide margin. They had a good 2021 season with her injured for most of it, but she just does so many different things on the court for them.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Anybody gonna go out on a limb and predict a repeat for Vegas next year? There hasn't been a back to back Champ since the Sparks in '01 and '02. 3 of the last 4 years has seen a first time champ. Aces could make a few moves to bolster their roster like the Sky did and still end up short.

 

[bbsamjj]

Aces have to be the favorite; but they weren't exactly a dominant force this year. IMO, any of the top 4 seeds would have been worthy champions, and the Aces had to win A LOT of close games over both the Storm and Sun to win the championship.

The thing they have going for them is their roster should look pretty identical next year (at least the starters). Very unclear what so many other teams will look like.

 

[Waquoit]

This isn't drastic in my mind, unless it's Jonquel Jones being considered. That would be drastic.

I thought J. Jones was off a bit this year. The talent evaluators have to decide if she's going to bounce back or not and make moves accordingly.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I thought J. Jones was off a bit this year. The talent evaluators have to decide if she's going to bounce back or not and make moves accordingly.

Maybe it's a matter of JJ and AT don't really compliment each other all that well? JJ's MVP was while AT missed almost the entire season.

 

[bballnut90]

Anybody gonna go out on a limb and predict a repeat for Vegas next year? There hasn't been a back to back Champ since the Sparks in '01 and '02. 3 of the last 4 years has seen a first time champ. Aces could make a few moves to bolster their roster like the Sky did and still end up short.

Right now I'd say yes but it's hard to say considering the off-season is unpredictable. The Sky were 17-17 last year and their core is Parker and Vandersloot who are both past their prime. Repeating was a possibility but they never felt like a slam dunk pick.


For the Aces, all of their players are in their prime or reaching their prime. Their starting 5 is quite young and if all are back they'll be heavy favorites to repeat next year. I see New York, Connecticut, Washington and Chicago all as potential title teams next year too. The rest all need more talent influx or a change in coaching.

 

[nwhoopfan]

The Sky were 17-17 last year and their core is Parker and Vandersloot who are both past their prime. Repeating was a possibility but they never felt like a slam dunk pick.

But they were clearly much better during the regular season in '22 than '21. And there were some younger legs in the rotation like Copper, Meesseman, Stevens, Gardner, Allemand. I don't know that I'm going to attribute it to age, they just couldn't recapture the magic in the playoffs this season.

 

[awhom111]

First professional championship for the City of Las Vegas. Hammon changed the way the Aces play basketball. She did the exact opposite of what Laimbeer had been doing the previous years. She made it harder to play against them by spreading the floor, sharing the ball, and embracing the 3pt shot by letting the players shoot if they're open.

But this wouldn't have happened if Mark Davis had not bought the team in 2021, he bought them from MGM Resorts. MGM didn't really support them the way a pro team should be supported. Davis came in spent the money to improve their program from the bottom up, new and better equipment, better conditions and real support. He stated when he bought the team the following "These women can be such a value for our community as a whole. Get them working with kids and at clinics and making enough money so they don't have to also go over to Europe to play.

There is going to be a parade this Tuesday on at 5:30 P.M. on the Southbound portion of the Strip. It will close between Flamingo Road and Bellagio Drive from 6:00 A.M. to 11:00 P.M., the parade will last about an hour.

In retrospect, MGM was clearly just trying to establish a relationship with the NBA so that they could have the edge on being the official betting partner and that is what happened.

 

[MSGRET]

In retrospect, MGM was clearly just trying to establish a relationship with the NBA so that they could have the edge on being the official betting partner and that is what happened.

Just because they are the official betting partner doesn't stop any of the other sports books in the State of Nevada taking bets on the games. Many Vegans are happy that Davis bought the team because MGM Resorts never gave D about the WNBA or the team, they were just a write off as far as they were concerned.

 

[bballnut90]

But they were clearly much better during the regular season in '22 than '21. And there were some younger legs in the rotation like Copper, Meesseman, Stevens, Gardner, Allemand. I don't know that I'm going to attribute it to age, they just couldn't recapture the magic in the playoffs this season.

Agree with this, (though Gardner isn't exactly young at 32 years old.) My point though was that the Sky were predicted to be in the title mix but they were never an obvious frontrunner over other teams like Vegas, Seattle and Phoenix in the preseason. They got hot at the right time and rode it to a title last year and made some strong offseason changes that kept them in the mix along with other top teams.

Looking at Vegas, you have 4 standout players (3 former #1 picks) who are all continuing to improve each year and haven't reached their full potential yet (besides maybe Chelsea Gray). Assuming they'll be back, all of them will probably be even better than they were this year, and there doesn't appear to be any other loaded teams headed into next year aside from maybe Connecticut and whoever lands the Stewart sweepstakes.

Worth noting, the WNBA landscape looks a lot different than it did 12 months ago. Gone are Bird/Fowles, BG is locked up overseas, Taurasi showed significant decline, Charles is no longer the star she once was, EDD continues to have health problems, Cambage is out of the league, who knows if Angel will play again and Diggins-Smith left for personal reasons at the end of the year. A lot of star power is gone but much of the young talent is stockpiled in Vegas, as their 3 consecutive #1 picks from 2017-2019 is paying off in a big way. We'll see what the off season brings but as of now Vegas looks like the clear cut #1 team headed into 2023.

 

[nwhoopfan]

though Gardner isn't exactly young at 32 years old

Yeah, I thought of that, but she brought a lot of energy off the bench and certainly didn't look like a player approaching late in her career.

 

[oldhusky]

First professional championship for the City of Las Vegas. Hammon changed the way the Aces play basketball. She did the exact opposite of what Laimbeer had been doing the previous years. She made it harder to play against them by spreading the floor, sharing the ball, and embracing the 3pt shot by letting the players shoot if they're open.

But this wouldn't have happened if Mark Davis had not bought the team in 2021, he bought them from MGM Resorts. MGM didn't really support them the way a pro team should be supported. Davis came in spent the money to improve their program from the bottom up, new and better equipment, better conditions and real support. He stated when he bought the team the following "These women can be such a value for our community as a whole. Get them working with kids and at clinics and making enough money so they don't have to also go over to Europe to play.

There is going to be a parade this Tuesday on at 5:30 P.M. on the Southbound portion of the Strip. It will close between Flamingo Road and Bellagio Drive from 6:00 A.M. to 11:00 P.M., the parade will last about an hour.

As a part time Vegas resident, I agree completely regarding the change in style of play, and the ownership change has been a major plus in every way. I suspect the Aces will have an advantage going forward because of the ownership and the city. Vegas has a reputation of being a high class organization which could influence the decisions of free agents, as could the city itself.

It will be interesting to see how much support the Aces have at this rally. This has been a sports town for a long time and even more so with the recent additions of the Golden Knights and Raiders along with the Aces. Women's basketball, however, has been more of a cultural transformation. Interest in the NBA via the summer league, and collegiate men's basketball because of UNLV has been strong for a long time but many have not followed women's basketball until perhaps now.

I have been a little frustrated with the local newspaper/web site coverage regarding the Aces. Only now are they getting major coverage. Because there was not a natural base of women's basketball fans here, it has been an evolving process. I would call regular season attendance ok but not great. But now people are paying attention to the Aces and women's basketball. In some ways Vegas now is in a position like the Huskies in 1995. That championship created a whole new group of women's basketball fans that did not exist before. Maybe to a lesser degree, but I think many new women's basketball fans in Vegas will be created as well.

It seems like being in contention doesn't move the needle much for someone who isn't already a fan, but when you win a championship those new fans come out of the woodwork.

 

[Carnac]

Not gonna lie, these finals were extremely underwhelming until the 4th quarter today. Lots of defense, bad offense, and not a lot of players consistently stepping up aside from Gray/Wilson/Thomas. Neither team was firing on all cylinders and the series overall definitely pales in comparison to the Storm/Aces semis. That said, the 4th quarter today was phenomenal. Connecticut looked prime to send the series to 5, but then Riquna Williams single-handedly took over the last 2 minutes, scoring 8 points in 68 seconds to retake the lead and seal the win. Plum also hit a huge bucket and A'ja Wilson made a couple of key defensive plays. Big efforts from a number of players.

Happy to see the Aces take it home, Gray and Wilson deserve a title after their efforts this post season. I think these playoffs has established Gray as a legendary playmaker and PG in the league, I don't think there's ever been a PG in the league with her sense of flair, ability to create and her ability to score, not to mention her insane clutch streak. As far Wilson, this definitely puts her in an elite category of players. In just her 5th year she's won 2 MVPS, played in 2 finals, won a title and Vegas seems primed to win a few more with their stacked roster. She'll quickly work her way up the all time ranks.

Also thrilled for Hammon to come in and make her mark on the league. I hope she gets her crack at coaching an NBA team if that's what she's looking to accomplish. Seems like she has a lot of respect from NBA players and fans. Anytime I see something women's basketball related from Bleacher Report or ESPN, Facebook comments are generally flooded with sexist comments but anytime it's about Hammon the comments usually allude to her being able to coach in the NBA. Would love to see her continue to break barriers if that's what she wants to do. Otherwise, if she wants to attempt creating the next WNBA dynasty I am all for that as well.


In regards to Connecticut, I think this may have been their last real shot unless they do some roster revamping. They had a great year and have a lot of talent but they don't have any strong up and coming players and I think they'll fall behind the likes of Vegas and potentially NY (if Stewart goes there) as a lot of their players are hitting their prime while a lot of Sun players are past theirs.

Excellent post BBnut. The Aces with Hammon at the helm and Gray, Wilson and Plum at the height of their game, Stokes clogging up the middle and getting her fair share of rebounds, and Williams able to make clutch shots off the bench when needed, are an awesome combination to for teams to overcome. The Aces have also become a desired destination for free agents. They are the defending world champions, and who doesn't like to be in Las Vegas? I'm there now as I write this, and I'm having a wonderful time.

Going to the parade later this afternoon. The parade route/length will be very short. Only about 200 yards. From Caesars Palace to the Bellagio fountain

where a stage has been set up for closing ceremonies and remarks by the governor, team officials, Hammon and the players. It's gonna be wild. A lot of the city will turn out for this. Those championship tee shirts that the players wore post game are the hottest item in town. Las Vegas is in the grip of Aces mania.