WNBA -- 2023 Season

[GoChips20]

My goodness, Stewart seems to have taken her game to an entirely new level this year - not that she had a ton of room left to improve.

 

[nwhoopfan]

With Seattle and Minnesota showing signs of life, Phoenix appears to be winning the race to the bottom.

Chicago is struggling after a nice start to the season. Copper was back today but it didn't matter.

Atlanta seems to have found something. Consecutive wins against NY and Connecticut, and handling Indiana today (who were on a bit of roll themselves).

The middle of the pack is overflowing at this point of the season.

 

[azfan]

With Seattle and Minnesota showing signs of life, Phoenix appears to be winning the race to the bottom.

Chicago is struggling after a nice start to the season. Copper was back today but it didn't matter.

Atlanta seems to have found something. Consecutive wins against NY and Connecticut, and handling Indiana today (who were on a bit of roll themselves).

The middle of the pack is overflowing at this point of the season.

Little doubt. Even with DT (at this stage of her career major defensive liability) and BG back on the floor, the Mercury will be uncompetitive for the remainder of the season. Very very painful to watch.

I was disappointed in the ABC broadcast which suggested the only reason the GOAT came back was to hit 10,000.

 

[JellyBean]

With Seattle and Minnesota showing signs of life, Phoenix appears to be winning the race to the bottom.

Chicago is struggling after a nice start to the season. Copper was back today but it didn't matter.

Atlanta seems to have found something. Consecutive wins against NY and Connecticut, and handling Indiana today (who were on a bit of roll themselves).

The middle of the pack is overflowing at this point of the season.

I do like the play of Atlanta and even Indiana of late, even though they faced off today. That was a pretty good game.

I am curious to see how the Lynx play tonight against the Aces. Against the Sparks we had two games where it was close and then Minnesota got some key stops to win the game. It is like Coach Reeve has her eyes on the standings and thinking about the 2024 draft.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I am curious to see how the Lynx play tonight against the Aces.

The margin was only 6 last I looked just before halftime...ended up being a 30 point beat down. What happened? And that was with a sub par game by Wilson even. Looks like the 3 guards all had it going. Lynx just stopped scoring in the second half.

 

[JellyBean]

Welp. My Lynx played like I expected them to play against Las Vegas, timid. We have a lot of shot takers. Just not enough shot makers. Oh well. Just have to get ready for the Sparks, again, in a few days. Glad to see Emily getting some minutes out there. Hopefully she will get more minutes against the Sparks.

 

[JellyBean]

The margin was only 6 last I looked just before halftime...ended up being a 30 point beat down. What happened? And that was with a sub par game by Wilson even. Looks like the 3 guards all had it going. Lynx just stopped scoring in the second half.

That 3rd quarter. The Aces just hit a switch and my Lynx just could not figure anything out. Bad passing. Missed shots. 7 points in that 3rd quarter. The Aces really didn't do a lot defensively. It was just we missed shots and threw the ball away and the Aces just took advantage.

 

[cancontent]

@JellyBean - How long is Diamond Miller expected to be out due to injury? Feels like it's taken longer than I thought it would.

 

[baggerbob]

Welp. My Lynx played like I expected them to play against Las Vegas, timid. We have a lot of shot takers. Just not enough shot makers. Oh well. Just have to get ready for the Sparks, again, in a few days. Glad to see Emily getting some minutes out there. Hopefully she will get more minutes against the Sparks.

Outside of Collier, no one else in the starting lineup plays defense, they need someone like Emily starting.

 

[JellyBean]

@JellyBean - How long is Diamond Miller expected to be out due to injury? Feels like it's taken longer than I thought it would.

No recent updates and I agree. It is taking longer than any of us expected. Same with Aerial Powers and her left ankle.

 

[JellyBean]

Outside of Collier, no one else in the starting lineup plays defense, they need someone like Emily starting.

Dorka gives us another defensive presence out there. I love that we got Emily and hopefully she gets some minutes against the Sparks tomorrow. Her energy, especially on the defensive end, should inspire the rest of the team to play a little more defense. I think as a team, we are dead last in defensive rating. I will have to check but I am pretty sure we are either last or next to last, in a 12 team league. SMH.

 

[cancontent]

No recent updates and I agree. It is taking longer than any of us expected. Same with Aerial Powers and her left ankle.

Phew. So it's not just me being behind on things. Thanks!

 

[azfan]

Dorka gives us another defensive presence out there. I love that we got Emily and hopefully she gets some minutes against the Sparks tomorrow. Her energy, especially on the defensive end, should inspire the rest of the team to play a little more defense. I think as a team, we are dead last in defensive rating. I will have to check but I am pretty sure we are either last or next to last, in a 12 team league. SMH.

The bottom five teams in the W are interchangeable in terms of their defensive ineptitude. Phoenix, atlanta, and Dallas all give up more than 86 points per game. Opposing teams lick their chops at the number of wide open looks they get when playing these defenseless teams.

At least Atlanta and Dallas have coherent offenses and players who know what they're doing the Mercury even before the goats injury or an embarrassment in large part due to their High School coach I think. When it comes to coaching or match comes to mind when thinking about it Phoenix.

It's combination I think of chemistry and coaching, injuries, and frankly a culture within those franchises that has failed to emphasize the type of commitment necessary to defend in the W.

Another element contributing to the defensive ineptitude is the lack of preseason and lack of practice together as a team. Even a coach of the caliber of Reeves cannot overcome these issues.

What this does emphasize however is the importance of coaching as you look at the defense at the top of the league in particular the Mystics. This is a team that's dealt with injuries as well as players arriving late and yet the culture of this team as well as coaching has resulted in extraordinarily effective defense.

As a Mercury fan the game yesterday was agony. No excuses and with three starters out Sophie Cunningham is the only player on that team who's a bonafide WNBA player. While the announcers tried to find something positive to say about Phoenix and more positive in their evaluation of Sug I think that's misplaced.

It was truly embarrassing to see the Liberty manhandle and abused of mercury particularly in the paint. Jonquil Jones as an example bullied every Phoenix player. It's obvious why Onynewere didn't want to come back into the game.

Liberty were merely a prelude to what's going to happen when the Mercury confront the Aces later this week.

The Mercury lack any semblance of offense perhaps due to their High School coach. I believe they had sex clock violations on the offensive end. Well I admire players like Shay Petty they really don't belong in the W.

The locker room and culture was vitriolic last year with Skylar Diggins who we all know will never be in a Mercury uniform again. For the life of me I can't understand why the restructuring hasn't started yet with Phoenix.

Failure was assured in the preseason as the organization made the decision not to make a much-needed coaching change.




.

 

[Gus Mahler]

The Mercury lack any semblance of offense perhaps due to their High School coach. I believe they had sex clock violations on the offensive end. Well I admire players like Shay Petty they really don't belong in the W.

Reminds me of the old Rodney Dangerfield joke about his wife using sex with him as an egg timer.

 

[bballnut90]

The bottom five teams in the W are interchangeable in terms of their defensive ineptitude. Phoenix, atlanta, and Dallas all give up more than 86 points per game. Opposing teams lick their chops at the number of wide open looks they get when playing these defenseless teams.

At least Atlanta and Dallas have coherent offenses and players who know what they're doing the Mercury even before the goats injury or an embarrassment in large part due to their High School coach I think. When it comes to coaching or match comes to mind when thinking about it Phoenix.

It's combination I think of chemistry and coaching, injuries, and frankly a culture within those franchises that has failed to emphasize the type of commitment necessary to defend in the W.

Another element contributing to the defensive ineptitude is the lack of preseason and lack of practice together as a team. Even a coach of the caliber of Reeves cannot overcome these issues.

What this does emphasize however is the importance of coaching as you look at the defense at the top of the league in particular the Mystics. This is a team that's dealt with injuries as well as players arriving late and yet the culture of this team as well as coaching has resulted in extraordinarily effective defense.

As a Mercury fan the game yesterday was agony. No excuses and with three starters out Sophie Cunningham is the only player on that team who's a bonafide WNBA player. While the announcers tried to find something positive to say about Phoenix and more positive in their evaluation of Sug I think that's misplaced.

It was truly embarrassing to see the Liberty manhandle and abused of mercury particularly in the paint. Jonquil Jones as an example bullied every Phoenix player. It's obvious why Onynewere didn't want to come back into the game.

Liberty were merely a prelude to what's going to happen when the Mercury confront the Aces later this week.

The Mercury lack any semblance of offense perhaps due to their High School coach. I believe they had sex clock violations on the offensive end. Well I admire players like Shay Petty they really don't belong in the W.

The locker room and culture was vitriolic last year with Skylar Diggins who we all know will never be in a Mercury uniform again. For the life of me I can't understand why the restructuring hasn't started yet with Phoenix.

Failure was assured in the preseason as the organization made the decision not to make a much-needed coaching change.




.

Phoenix has one bonafide star in Griner and a lot of support pieces that can’t get the job done. DT is still capable offensively but her inefficiency and lack of defense hurts the team too, and she’s their second best player. Phoenix’s downfall has been building over the last decade. They’ve largely underachieved since their brilliant 2014 season, but have still made the playoffs which means they haven’t had any quality draft picks in a long time. The players they’ve landed haven’t been developed since so much of the focus has been on Taurasi/Griner/Diggins-Smith. Someone like Brianna Turner should be far better than she is right now offensively, especially when you consider she was a star at ND for many years during the peak of their program. Their roster is largely constructed of players who either shouldn’t be in the league or would be end of bench players on most other teams due to few draft picks and minimal player development. Landing Clark or Bueckers would go a long way in setting up the rebuild but it’s not at all guaranteed they’ll get a top 2 pick or that either declares next year.

 

[cancontent]

Phoenix has one bonafide star in Griner and a lot of support pieces that can’t get the job done. DT is still capable offensively but her inefficiency and lack of defense hurts the team too, and she’s their second best player. Phoenix’s downfall has been building over the last decade. They’ve largely underachieved since their brilliant 2014 season, but have still made the playoffs which means they haven’t had any quality draft picks in a long time. The players they’ve landed haven’t been developed since so much of the focus has been on Taurasi/Griner/Diggins-Smith. Someone like Brianna Turner should be far better than she is right now offensively, especially when you consider she was a star at ND for many years during the peak of their program. Their roster is largely constructed of players who either shouldn’t be in the league or would be end of bench players on most other teams due to few draft picks and minimal player development. Landing Clark or Bueckers would go a long way in setting up the rebuild but it’s not at all guaranteed they’ll get a top 2 pick or that either declares next year.

It sounds like you're challenging the previous opinion that the current coach is to blame, based on how I'm reading this. Am I correct?

Makes sense as to me it seems like the onus should be placed more on management overall than just the coaching. Not saying Nygaard doesn't have her part, but I do recall some thinking Brondello had reached a point where her style was no longer effective for the team even with their last WNBA finals appearance.

 

[Rb335]

Phoenix has one bonafide star in Griner and a lot of support pieces that can’t get the job done. DT is still capable offensively but her inefficiency and lack of defense hurts the team too, and she’s their second best player. Phoenix’s downfall has been building over the last decade. They’ve largely underachieved since their brilliant 2014 season, but have still made the playoffs which means they haven’t had any quality draft picks in a long time. The players they’ve landed haven’t been developed since so much of the focus has been on Taurasi/Griner/Diggins-Smith. Someone like Brianna Turner should be far better than she is right now offensively, especially when you consider she was a star at ND for many years during the peak of their program. Their roster is largely constructed of players who either shouldn’t be in the league or would be end of bench players on most other teams due to few draft picks and minimal player development. Landing Clark or Bueckers would go a long way in setting up the rebuild but it’s not at all guaranteed they’ll get a top 2 pick or that either declares next year.

Agreed. At some point, you need to miss the playoffs and get lucky with a good draft. In this day and age, coming in 9th and missing out on a single playoff game can be more beneficial than coming in 8th place.

It feels like the perfect storm. Your best player misses a season due to detainment. Then once she returns, your best player from the prior year is out on maternity leave. And Taurasi will most likely only continue to get more ineffective as time goes on.

Combine that with the poor coaching hire, and Phoenix wasn’t a landing spot of interest for any free agents this past year. They are carrying a roster of mainly role players. It’s going to be a long rebuild for them, unless there’s significant roster and coaching turnover in the off-season.

 

[bballnut90]

It sounds like you're challenging the previous opinion that the current coach is to blame, based on how I'm reading this. Am I correct?

Makes sense as to me it seems like the onus should be placed more on management overall than just the coaching. Not saying Nygaard doesn't have her part, but I do recall some thinking Brondello had reached a point where her style was no longer effective for the team even with their last WNBA finals appearance.

Wasn't challenging @azfan but agreeing/expanding on it with my own thoughts.

I think it's a failure with both coaching and management. Last year Phoenix went all in trying to create a super team around volume shooters and it failed miserably due to a multitude of factors, but with the exodus of Charles/Diggins-Smith, plus trading away DeShields for Onyenwere (another poor decision IMO), the cupboard has been left extremely bare this year. They're left with Griner and a well past her prime Taurasi as the stars. Taurasi especially is being vastly overpaid for her current value. I don't blame them for paying Diana as she's one of the best to ever suit up, but it limits their necessary rebuild effort IMO to place so much value in the 41 year old. All of this screams of poor management in recent years.

I agree some of the blame is on Brondello who largely underachieved outside of the 2014 year. The next 7 years they never won more than 20 games (121-103 record over her last 7 years), never finished higher than 4th in the league and have been consistently mediocre despite having Griner and Taurasi most of those seasons. During Brondello's tenure, Griner for a long time never seemed fully engaged/focused, and Taurasi's effort and production has also been inconsistent on a game to game basis. To be frank, I think most expected more out of Phoenix the past decade with all of the talent they had on their roster and the underachieving falls partially on Brondello's coaching.

Nygaard isn't responsible for Phoenix's current state, but I have no idea how she got the position in the first place. She was a 1 year assistant in Vegas and coached at the high school level the previous 13 years. She's seemed in over her head managing the teams she has. Especially last year trying to manage feuding stars and a stressed roster with BG locked up overseas. Kudos for her giving the best effort and still getting a limping team into the playoffs last year (without any of their big 4 playing), but based on what she's done thus far, I don't see her being part of the solution for turning around Phoenix.

 

[MilfordHusky]

The margin was only 6 last I looked just before halftime...ended up being a 30 point beat down. What happened? And that was with a sub par game by Wilson even. Looks like the 3 guards all had it going. Lynx just stopped scoring in the second half.

Vegas was a front-court oriented team under Bill. With Becky, they have become a guard oriented team. How many future Hall of Famers do they have? 2, 3, 4, maybe 5??

 

[jdote33]

Happy for Phee. I feel like there were some rumblings on Lynx Twitter about her greatness or whether she could be a true number one option. I know the Lynx are only 3-8 but she's been balling recently.

It's rough what's happening in Phoenix. Seems like they've had a string of bad luck the last two years. I'm just disappointed they didn't try to find a replacement for Skylar Diggins and find more offensive firepower. It's crazy cuz the 2021 team fit so perfectly and we're so close.

Dallas struggles r kinda interesting. I sortve feel like they don't have any facilitators and also they have an uncomfortable pecking order. Like the teams 3 best players all kinda play like it's their team. All are viable to go 7-21 on poor shot selection. But all are very talented. Furthermore Siegrist is a scorer as well. So I don't think they fit seamlessly.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Vegas was a front-court oriented team under Bill. With Becky, they have become a guard oriented team. How many future Hall of Famers do they have? 2, 3, 4, maybe 5??

5? Hmm. Parker is already there. Gray probably. Wilson well on her way. Young and Plum have a lot of work left to do.

Definitely they are more perimeter oriented now, but it's not like Wilson isn't getting plenty of touches and shots still. But yeah Bill moving on and Becky taking over is the best possible thing that could've happened for both Plum and Young.

 

[bballnut90]

5? Hmm. Parker is already there. Gray probably. Wilson well on her way. Young and Plum have a lot of work left to do.

Definitely they are more perimeter oriented now, but it's not like Wilson isn't getting plenty of touches and shots still. But yeah Bill moving on and Becky taking over is the best possible thing that could've happened for both Plum and Young.

Plum’s a lock with her scoring record for WHOF but has work to do for Naismith. Young is probably the only question mark for WHOF and at the rate she’s going I wouldn’t bet against her making it.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Plum’s a lock with her scoring record for WHOF but has work to do for Naismith. Young is probably the only question mark for WHOF and at the rate she’s going I wouldn’t bet against her making it.

I'm not sure who is closer--Gray or Wilson. A'ja was NPOY and is a 2x MVP. Plum, with her WCBB scoring record and current level of play, is on her way. Jackie is probably the farthest away, but she has become a shooter and a star. Her current stats: 21/4/3 on 60/47/83 shooting. Stellar!

 

[azfan]

As a shooting guard she would be second tier behind players like Jewell or Arike. If everyone's a star no one's a star.

That's said she's really currently the only legitimate W player starting for the Mercury. Love her personality and I think she may well have a future after playing in the booth.