Wiggins Trashes WNBA Culture | Page 6 | The Boneyard

Wiggins Trashes WNBA Culture

Decoli2 said:
To put this in other terms, is it hard to believe individual reports of African Americans experiencing something so far outside of the norm during a routine traffic stop?
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No. If African Americans (note this is plural) as a group are experiencing something that can no longer be consider "outside the the norm". If pretty women were experiencing bullying in the WNBA of the kind Candice is reporting that would also not be outside the norm. In fact, if one other WNBA player reported this bullying, I would come closer to accepting it as the norm. Candice experience is well outside the norm because the WNBA has been in existence for 20 years now.
 
Who cares? People whose enthusiasm for the WNBA is influenced by players' proclivities off court are w-a-a-a-y-y out of line. All anyone should care about is the quality of the league's basketball product. I think the quality of basketball improves every year in the WNBA, at least it does to my eye.
 
People are struggling to know what to make of Wiggins' charges of bullying and abuse. It appears that the WNBA specifically, and WBB in general were completely blindsided by the charges.

While there is a general measure of sensitivity to Wiggins charges, not a single current or former player has come forward with a similar tale of bullying and abuse. What's more, Wiggins has not produced a single email, text or VM supporting her claim (as Jonathan Martin did), or any evidence of a contemporaneous formal or informal complaint.

Finally, some of her claims that 98% of WNBA players are gay, and she was signaled out because she was feminine, are themselves impossible to validate and appear designed to fuel controversy rather than comprehension.

Bullying and abuse are serious charges that require a thorough investigation by the WNBA, but absent supporting evidence of some kind, I am not at all comfortable with Candace Wiggins comments on this matter.
 
nwhoopfan said:
Well the anointed one was gifted a slam dunk title at the McDonald's AA game and a WNBA MVP her rookie year (wasn't even the best player on her team, that was still clearly Lisa Leslie at that point) that she didn't deserve, so it's hard to feel too bad for her.
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With all due respect, nwhoopfan, I have to disagree...

Lisa Leslie (2008): 15.1 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 2.4 apg, 2.9 bpg, 1.5 spg, 46.3 percent from the floor, 23.5 percent from three, 66.1 percent from the line

Candace Parker (2008): 18.5 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 3.4 apg, 2.2 bpg, 1.2 spg, 52.3 percent from the floor, 42.3 percent from three, 72.3 percent from the line

In 2008, Parker led the entire league in double-doubles with 17, as well as leading led the WNBA in rebounding. She was fourth in the WNBA in scoring, second in blocks (behind Leslie), and 15th in the WNBA in assists.
for the 2008 season.
 
Plebe said:
So basically we have this:

Mistie Bass, Imani Boyette, Monique Currie, Rebecca Lobo, DeLisha Milton-Jones, Ticha Penicheiro, and every other heterosexual current or former player who has spoken on the topic: "I have never experienced or witnessed anything like what she's describing."

Candice Wiggins, in response: "Of course you haven't! That's because I'm prettier and more feminine and more popular than all of you!"
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"Don't hate me because I'm beautiful"

I wonder if Swin or Sue got beat up in the W.
 
First thing I thought of...

5c863d7a1d4ff3444b9b28b6097cc347.jpg
 
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Amid backlash, Wiggins stands by controversial WNBA comments

After refusing to speak with ESPNW, Candice doubles down on her allegations in further remarks to the Union-Tribune. She also says the abuse was not just from from fellow players but also from coaches and "leaders" of the league:

There is no data on the number of gay women in the WNBA, and some commentaries about the story questioned Wiggins’ “98 percent” number. She said Tuesday that she used that figure more to be illustrative than factual.

“It was my way to illustrate the isolation that I felt personally,” Wiggins said. “I felt like the 2 percent versus the 98 percent. It felt that way to me. And it’s not just the players. It was the coaches. It was the leaders.”​

I also recommend that people watch the video of Candice commenting. It's, uh, interesting.
 
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Plebe said:
So basically we have this:

Mistie Bass, Imani Boyette, Monique Currie, Rebecca Lobo, DeLisha Milton-Jones, Ticha Penicheiro, and every other heterosexual current or former player who has spoken on the topic: "I have never experienced or witnessed anything like what she's describing."

Candice Wiggins, in response: "Of course you haven't! That's because I'm prettier and more feminine and more popular than all of you!"
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hahaha she kinda got a point but... beauty is in the eye of the beholder
 
Decoli2 said:
I don't think it's far-fetched for Candice to be the target of jealousy, but I don't think it was strictly directed at her femininity or heterosexuality, but rather a byproduct of it. I believe her femininity and physical beauty, in combination with her incredible talent, contributed to her mainstream appeal and collegiate clout. It’s likely the jealousy or feelings about her were more the result of her personality and the clout surrounding her, which her femininity/ appearance and heterosexuality contributed to. To me, it’s completely plausible to believe there’s jealousy based on popularity and appearance, especially when those two things are present in combination with super talent.

In the end, it’s great to hear other perspectives, but people are not created equal, so their experiences are disparate. Hearing DeLisa’s, Imani’s, and Lyashia’s experience do not tell me that Candice’s was not real, because they are not Candice. They were never surrounded in the same fame, do not look like her, play like her, or have the same personality as her. This doesn’t mean their three experiences aren’t real. I believe their stories refuting her, but I also believe Candice had a different experience.

Also note that Imani Boyette confirms Candice's sentiment about female athletes feeling like they have to be like their male counterparts. Imani says she doesn't want the press to ask her about her plans to have kids or her family because the press doesn't ask male athletes about that. In other words, Imani wants to be treated like the male NBA players. To me, Candice is saying she doesn't have to act like or be treated like "a man" to be a pro basketball player. I think her words were just badly misconstrued. She's an impressive player, and I don't think sharing her experience should discount her legacy.
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well said
 
CamrnCrz1974 said:
With all due respect, nwhoopfan, I have to disagree...

Lisa Leslie (2008): 15.1 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 2.4 apg, 2.9 bpg, 1.5 spg, 46.3 percent from the floor, 23.5 percent from three, 66.1 percent from the line

Candace Parker (2008): 18.5 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 3.4 apg, 2.2 bpg, 1.2 spg, 52.3 percent from the floor, 42.3 percent from three, 72.3 percent from the line

In 2008, Parker led the entire league in double-doubles with 17, as well as leading led the WNBA in rebounding. She was fourth in the WNBA in scoring, second in blocks (behind Leslie), and 15th in the WNBA in assists.
for the 2008 season.
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That's weird, apparently I've had their stats transposed in my mind for almost a decade. I thought it was strange the MVP went to a player averaging 15/8, and now I see that wasn't the case. My mistake. It was still really surprising that a rookie won it, but she was more deserving than I realized. Thank you for correcting my misperception.
 
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Plebe said:
Amid backlash, Wiggins stands by controversial WNBA comments

After refusing to speak with ESPNW, Candice doubles down on her allegations in further remarks to the Union-Tribune. She also says the abuse was not just from from fellow players but also from coaches and "leaders" of the league:

There is no data on the number of gay women in the WNBA, and some commentaries about the story questioned Wiggins’ “98 percent” number. She said Tuesday that she used that figure more to be illustrative than factual.

“It was my way to illustrate the isolation that I felt personally,” Wiggins said. “I felt like the 2 percent versus the 98 percent. It felt that way to me. And it’s not just the players. It was the coaches. It was the leaders.”​

I also recommend that people watch the video of Candice commenting. It's, uh, interesting.
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Holy Crap! That's what a Stanford education sounds like?!? Kinda cringe-worthy, right?
Never liked Wiggins. Always seemed kind of self-absorbed in a Skyler Diggins kind of way... FWIW, Skyler would be a good one to ask about this... she also is convinced that she is very pretty and puts it out there very overtly in ads and appearances. If Skyler is hetero, she might be a good test case for Wiggins' assertions.
 
psconn said:
Holy Crap! That's what a Stanford education sounds like?!? Kinda cringe-worthy, right?
Never liked Wiggins. Always seemed kind of self-absorbed in a Skyler Diggins kind of way... FWIW, Skyler would be a good one to ask about this... she also is convinced that she is very pretty and puts it out there very overtly in ads and appearances. If Skyler is hetero, she might be a good test case for Wiggins' assertions.
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Diggins is in her prime of getting money, you think she's gonna take sides on a issue like this... aint happen'
 
Pretty clear (to me at last) that she falls under the category of people who believe that any tough times they have must be the result of a conspiracy which is what bullying is. :(

This is pretty common. I know of multiple people in my workplace who I would characterize like this. The sad part is that they are totally convinced of it. :(:(
 
eebmg said:
Pretty clear (to me at last) that she falls under the category of people who believe that any tough times they have must be the result of a conspiracy which is what bullying is. :(

This is pretty common. I know of multiple people in my workplace who I would characterize like this. The sad part is that they are totally convinced of it. :(:(
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and this is why they stay bullied sometimes because if they do speak out there's backlash... "she's just trying to sell a book". Some other former WNBA players are saying "I wish a b**** would try to bully me" or "fight their as**s if they're bullying you".

So if you're not a fighting... and you speak up in a safe place you still get bullied. All because the audience have their own brash response to bullying. And if you're one of the people she's talking about of course it seems that it doesn't happen.
 
Ms. Wiggin's claims of bullying are serious and should be taken very seriously. However, I think it is fair for people to express some concern and skepticism about aspects of what Ms. Wiggins has said.

She made sweeping allegations without any specifics. Some of the statements she made are false ('98% of women in the WNBA are gay') and others are almost assuredly exaggerations ('people tried to hurt me every day'). I don't doubt that she felt out of place and uncomfortable on her teams. I also don't necessarily doubt that she experienced harsh treatment by some players who didn't like her. But it is concerning when a person alleges that large groups of unnamed people assaulted and bullied her on a regular basis and yet gives no supporting details or examples of the bullying that she faced. She could give multiple examples of specific behaviors without naming names. She could talk specifically about how coaches acknowledged, ignored and/or supported this behavior without naming them. She could tell about specific things that were said to her or ways in which she was treated differently.

I don't doubt that Ms. Wiggins perceives that this happened to her because she believes that she is pretty and popular and others are jealous of her. As people are want to say "that is Ms. Wiggins' reality." However when she talks to reporters (which is her right) she is asking for it to become part of our reality. Many of us would be happy to champion someone who stands up to bullying if they speak of their experience with sober non-exaggerated statements. She, of course, doesn't have to do that. But when you make dramatic and exaggerated allegations without putting any "meat on the bones" then some (many, most) people will hesitate to sign on to those statements and ask questions.
 
HuskyNan said:
"Don't hate me because I'm beautiful"

I wonder if Swin or Sue got beat up in the W.
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Well that's not really a good example. They are from UCONN. Who's gonna try to beat up or bully someone from UCONN??

UCONN is the one who knocks.

 
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JudgeSCR said:
Ms. Wiggin's claims of bullying are serious and should be taken very seriously. However, I think it is fair for people to express some concern and skepticism about aspects of what Ms. Wiggins has said.

She made sweeping allegations without any specifics. Some of the statements she made are false ('98% of women in the WNBA are gay') and others are almost assuredly exaggerations ('people tried to hurt me every day'). I don't doubt that she felt out of place and uncomfortable on her teams. I also don't necessarily doubt that she experienced harsh treatment by some players who didn't like her. But it is concerning when a person alleges that large groups of unnamed people assaulted and bullied her on a regular basis and yet gives no supporting details or examples of the bullying that she faced. She could give multiple examples of specific behaviors without naming names. She could talk specifically about how coaches acknowledged, ignored and/or supported this behavior without naming them. She could tell about specific things that were said to her or ways in which she was treated differently.

I don't doubt that Ms. Wiggins perceives that this happened to her because she believes that she is pretty and popular and others are jealous of her. As people are want to say "that is Ms. Wiggins' reality." However when she talks to reporters (which is her right) she is asking for it to become part of our reality. Many of us would be happy to champion someone who stands up to bullying if they speak of their experience with sober non-exaggerated statements. She, of course, doesn't have to do that. But when you make dramatic and exaggerated allegations without putting any "meat on the bones" then some (many, most) people will hesitate to sign on to those statements and ask questions.
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Very good post Judge. Plainly she hopes you will buy her book expecting to find it all in there. This is just cynical, self-aggrandizing BS from Ms. Wiggins.
 
JudgeSCR said:
Ms. Wiggin's claims of bullying are serious and should be taken very seriously. However, I think it is fair for people to express some concern and skepticism about aspects of what Ms. Wiggins has said.

She made sweeping allegations without any specifics. Some of the statements she made are false ('98% of women in the WNBA are gay') and others are almost assuredly exaggerations ('people tried to hurt me every day'). I don't doubt that she felt out of place and uncomfortable on her teams. I also don't necessarily doubt that she experienced harsh treatment by some players who didn't like her. But it is concerning when a person alleges that large groups of unnamed people assaulted and bullied her on a regular basis and yet gives no supporting details or examples of the bullying that she faced. She could give multiple examples of specific behaviors without naming names. She could talk specifically about how coaches acknowledged, ignored and/or supported this behavior without naming them. She could tell about specific things that were said to her or ways in which she was treated differently.

I don't doubt that Ms. Wiggins perceives that this happened to her because she believes that she is pretty and popular and others are jealous of her. As people are want to say "that is Ms. Wiggins' reality." However when she talks to reporters (which is her right) she is asking for it to become part of our reality. Many of us would be happy to champion someone who stands up to bullying if they speak of their experience with sober non-exaggerated statements. She, of course, doesn't have to do that. But when you make dramatic and exaggerated allegations without putting any "meat on the bones" then some (many, most) people will hesitate to sign on to those statements and ask questions.
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She has supposedly kept journals, so she has the details, but... she is in the process of writing a book... so she is not going to give any details away now. You'll have to buy the book.
 
trb123 said:
Please help me.
Is it three straight WNBA players?
Or is it Wiggins and 2 straight WNBA players?
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It would be three this season and two besides her last season.
 
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noirwestern said:
Add another voice of dissent to the list: http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2017...about-the-wnba-says-about-her-and-the-league/
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Whoa. Kayte Christensen (played in the NBA for 6 seasons) was in no mood to pull punches. By far the most scathing response I've seen in print.

Well, I’m also a straight woman who was in a serious relationship throughout the course of my 6-year career (which would qualify as being “vocal in my identity as a straight woman”) and never ONCE was there an issue with that. Never once was there any form of jealousy or bullying. My boyfriend and I were not only welcomed with open arms but we both spent significant time with my teammates off the court. Is it possible that I was the exception? Hardly. I had multiple straight teammates who’s husbands and boyfriends shared the same experience. ...

The crazy thing about all the garbage Wiggins has spewed about her former employer and co-workers is that the WNBA from day one has been one of the most (if not the most) inclusive environments in professional sports. And that goes from the women on the court, coaches on the bench and executives in the front offices to the fans in stands. ...

But for Wiggins to take it a step further and say “The way I looked, the way I played – those things contributed to the tension,” is just another example of a deluded individual who apparently doesn’t understand the dynamics of professional sports. ...

When someone talks about the way they look working against them it screams EGO. I’ve got three words for you…get over yourself! You thought life in the WNBA was hard? If that’s how you look at yourself then life after isn’t going to be any easier.​
 
Here's another searing takedown of Candice's allegations, courtesy of Chantel Tremitiere:

WNBA bullying claim 'made me sick to my stomach,' York grad says

I know now that you could have never played on my team because I would have been the FIRST to call you and check you on this. I guarantee the next day in practice you would have "hit the ground" on numerous occasions, not for being heterosexual, but for being stupid.​

I can PROMISE you one thing. Lesbians, whether they are in the league or not, don't really hate heterosexuals. They DO hate homophobic people. I will not make any assumptions about what kind of teammate you were. Making assumptions has obviously landed you in the inauspicious position you are now. Lesbians don't have time to hate on or bully anyone else because they are too busy fighting against the people who hate on or bully them.​
 
FASTEDDY said:
Is anyone surprised that the WNBA is predominantly filled with gay players. It may not be 98% but I would bet its around 70-75%.

Like it or not, it is one of the reasons the league has a lot of trouble gaining a more mainstream following.
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I think this is unfortunately true. The league spent its first several seasons trying to minimize if not totally ignore that the majority of its players were gay. That may have seemed, or actually was necessary to build a more homogenous fanbase of straight and gay fans. It does seem that since the league decided to acknowledge the fact that most players are gay, attendance has been on a downward curve. It peaked during the era when the league was actively downplaying it. Maybe what the league thought would happen has happened regarding fan interest.

I don't know if there are parents out there who don't want to encourage their daughters to become fans or take them to games for that reason, although it's certainly likely that there are. You can label those folks as homophobes if you want to, but I can understand why they might not be comfortable with their children emulating a lifestyle that can make life considerably more challenging for their kids. It's not right to jump to that conclusion, but as a parent I understand why it's a valid concern to them.

We used to attend quite a few WNBA games and followed the league for its first several seasons, but we gradually lost interest in it, having nothing to do with the league's acknowledgment of its predominantly gay player composition. I personally couldn't care less whether male or female players are straight or gay. I value them based on performance, personality, or some combination of both. Sue Wicks was my favorite WNBA player from that era, and I believe she may have been one of the first players to openly state they were gay. But I get why some folks might have turned away because of it, and I'm not inclined to condemn anybody for exercising their own moral judgment about those things. You can think they're wrong, but they're entitled to their own opinion on that subject. It's not my job to judge what others think and do. I can disagree with it, but they're entitled to believe what they want to.
 
why did you lose interest... not sure I saw that in your post
 
UConnNick said:
I think this is unfortunately true. The league spent its first several seasons trying to minimize if not totally ignore that the majority of its players were gay. That may have seemed, or actually was necessary to build a more homogenous fanbase of straight and gay fans. It does seem that since the league decided to acknowledge the fact that most players are gay, attendance has been on a downward curve.
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When has the league ever issued any statement about how many of the players are gay? Somehow I missed that.
 
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