Wiggins Trashes WNBA Culture

[Plebe]

Well, looks like ESPN was taking its sweet time -

Rebecca Lobo responds to the ESPN article, first in a tweet:

 

[Plebe]

Hartford Courant tackles the topic: Wiggins Says It's 'Toxic' To Be Heterosexual In WNBA, But Lobo Doesn't Buy It

Including more from Rebecca:

"I know I've been out of the league for a long time, but I can tell you that it [Wiggins recollections] was nothing like my experience as a heterosexual in the WNBA. I couldn't relate to what she was saying at all," Lobo said. "Covering the league, being around the league, having friends in the league who still play in the league, having frank conversations with those who are still in the league, I have never heard anyone say they've had those similar experiences or that they've witnessed anything similar to what Candice is talking about. But then again, that's her perception of what her experience was.

"But I can say that her assessment that 98 percent of the players in the league are gay is absurd. That's just ridiculous. Did I have teammates on my teams that were lesbians? Yes. But there was a mix of all different types of women. It wasn't even something you talked about. It was more, there's so-and-so with her girlfriend or so-and-so with her boyfriend and you would all go out to dinner together. [Players' sexuality] was a complete nonissue on all the teams I played on."​

 

[emjay]

This reminds me of an oldish youtube video about talking to people about racism. Often, it seems that conversations about a person's statements or actions get derailed by a conversation about the person themselves. That's obviously a waste of time because none of us can peer into Candice's soul and know whether she treats people the same regardless of their sexual orientation. And it's not relevant.

What she said did is what matters here, not how she really feels deep down, and what she did was, as Orangutan put it: invoke "a persistent and harmful stereotype about women's sports generally and the WNBA specifically - the players are lesbians and straight women are unwelcome. In doing so, she made a blatantly false statement, i.e."98 percent"."

What she did was homophobic, I think we can all get why someone might refer to someone who said something homophobic as a homophobe, so let's not derail the "what she did" conversation by making it a "who she is" conversation.

Thank you for this important point. I'm grateful for this conversation, here and elsewhere on the internet, from thoughtful and compassionate voices like Imani Boyette, Monique Currie, etc.

It has been a little disheartening to read some posts in this thread perpetuating stereotypes like "many lesbians are sexually aggressive" - I felt my chest get tight and I thought, But that's not me, that's not fair. You don't even know me. And reading an assertion that many Americans find homosexuality distasteful was also depleting. Fortunately, that doesn't describe any American I've had the pleasure of meeting and befriending in person.

I wish that readers of Wiggins' article would see the wonderful WNBA faces I see when I think of openly gay players, like: Stefanie Dolson. Seimone Augustus. Elena Delle Donne. Angel McCoughtry. And others... A mix of playing styles and personalities too diverse to sum up with a statistic. Although it can probably be said that of all of them were outstanding college players in their time.

 

[iri10]

Hasn't Wiggins always had a reputation for trash talking, for being highly emotional on the court, for physical play etc.? I think she even even had a quote somewhere saying that annoying other players was an intentional aspect of her play.

I would not be surprised if she was bullied. The question is whether it was primarily related to her heterosexuality or not. Hard question to answer; even her own personal perspective might lend bias to how she sees it. But for now, given some of the other odd comments (like the 98% hyperbole), I am skeptical.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Hartford Courant tackles the topic: Wiggins Says It's 'Toxic' To Be Heterosexual In WNBA, But Lobo Doesn't Buy It

Including more from Rebecca:

"I know I've been out of the league for a long time, but I can tell you that it [Wiggins recollections] was nothing like my experience as a heterosexual in the WNBA. I couldn't relate to what she was saying at all," Lobo said. "Covering the league, being around the league, having friends in the league who still play in the league, having frank conversations with those who are still in the league, I have never heard anyone say they've had those similar experiences or that they've witnessed anything similar to what Candice is talking about. But then again, that's her perception of what her experience was.

"But I can say that her assessment that 98 percent of the players in the league are gay is absurd. That's just ridiculous. Did I have teammates on my teams that were lesbians? Yes. But there was a mix of all different types of women. It wasn't even something you talked about. It was more, there's so-and-so with her girlfriend or so-and-so with her boyfriend and you would all go out to dinner together. [Players' sexuality] was a complete nonissue on all the teams I played on."​

Lobo is also talking from 20 yrs ago... a lot of things have changed since then

 

[huskymedic]

 

[Plebe]

Lobo is also talking from 20 yrs ago... a lot of things have changed since then

Lobo retired in 2003, so if you're talking about her direct experience, more like 14 years ago. However, as she states in the article, she has continued to maintain friendships with players in the league, and says she's never heard anything like what Candice is claiming.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Support from whom?

The 3 straight WNBA players, apparently. I would imagine it's her way of trying to sell books, but Candace is just making herself look bad.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Lobo retired in 2003, so if you're talking about her direct experience, more like 14 years ago. However, as she states in the article, she has continued to maintain friendships with players in the league, and says she's never heard anything like what Candice is claiming.

20, 14.... same diff, things have changed, laws have changed

 

[Plebe]

20, 14.... same diff, things have changed, laws have changed

So the 5-year gap between Lobo's retirement and Wiggins's rookie year just happens to be the period when the W suddenly went from being an inclusive league where sexuality was a nonissue to the toxic and anti-hetero bullying environment Wiggins describes. I see.

 

[Plebe]

 

[DaddyChoc]

So the 5-year gap between Lobo's retirement and Wiggins's rookie year just happens to be the period when the W suddenly went from being an inclusive league where sexuality was a nonissue to the toxic and anti-hetero bullying environment Wiggins describes. I see.

who knows... people seem to assume the bullied (before the laws) cant become bullies.

and why must we start from her rookie year, is that when she says it start (I haven't read a word she said)... how long was she in the league? lets start with Lobo's last year and Wiggins last year.... whats that "period" of time?

 

[Bliss]

Lots of free publicity for her book that many will buy who previously might not have considered doing so or who were even aware of the book. Smart from a financial perspective.

 

[Orangutan]

Came across this from another board - an old Player's Tribune piece by Wiggins - The Five Toughest Players I’ve Ever Guarded | The Players' Tribune

"I call myself “The WNBA’s Most Wanted.” As in, I’m wanted: dead or alive. I’m the villain. The other team hates me. People love playing with me, but I know they hate playing against me. If the WNBA ran a player poll, “Who do you hate the most?” — I know I’d be No. 1. I know that.

And I like it. To me, it’s a testament to the fact that I’m doing my job. If my job was to make my opponents’ lives miserable, and my opponents liked me, how good of a job could I be doing?"

(emphasis mine)

As of 9/5/15 she was saying that she likes being the most hated player in the league. Now that she has a book coming out, she says she was bullied because she was straight, pretty and popular.

A cynic might say that her story changes depending what is convenient to draw attention to herself at any given time...

 

[LadyVols9]

really sad to see such ignorance come out of a school like Stanford. I always liked her feisty attitude but she just made herself the loneliest ex-WNBA ball player of all time. no longer a fan of Ms. Wiggins

 

[LadyVols9]

PS. I am still bitter that she won the Wade Trophy over Parker. laughable

 

[Jeff H]

From ESPNW
WNBA players dispute Candice Wiggins' controversial allegations


"I played in the league for 15 years -- for three different franchises -- and never experienced it personally, or witnessed any other player being bullied," said Ticha Penicheiro, a past WNBA champion who is now an agent. "I don't want to discredit her experience, if indeed she felt that. But 'nobody cares about the WNBA' and '98 percent of the league is gay' are completely false statements. So it's harder for me to give her personal experience credibility when those things are completely false."

DeLisha Milton-Jones, Imani Boyette and Layshia Clarendon are also quoted more or less offering some sympathy to Wiggins, but not at all relating to her experience. I'm waiting to see if some other WNBA player says that they had similar experiences to what Wiggins is claiming.

 

[trb123]

The 3 straight WNBA players, apparently. I would imagine it's her way of trying to sell books, but Candace is just making herself look bad.

Please help me.
Is it three straight WNBA players?
Or is it Wiggins and 2 straight WNBA players?

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

In reading some of the comments in this thread, why was I reminded of this?



(Sorry, had to interject a little humor)

 

[nwhoopfan]

PS. I am still bitter that she won the Wade Trophy over Parker. laughable

Well the anointed one was gifted a slam dunk title at the McDonald's AA game and a WNBA MVP her rookie year (wasn't even the best player on her team, that was still clearly Lisa Leslie at that point) that she didn't deserve, so it's hard to feel too bad for her.

 

[Decoli2]

From ESPNW
WNBA players dispute Candice Wiggins' controversial allegations


"I played in the league for 15 years -- for three different franchises -- and never experienced it personally, or witnessed any other player being bullied," said Ticha Penicheiro, a past WNBA champion who is now an agent. "I don't want to discredit her experience, if indeed she felt that. But 'nobody cares about the WNBA' and '98 percent of the league is gay' are completely false statements. So it's harder for me to give her personal experience credibility when those things are completely false."

DeLisha Milton-Jones, Imani Boyette and Layshia Clarendon are also quoted more or less offering some sympathy to Wiggins, but not at all relating to her experience. I'm waiting to see if some other WNBA player says that they had similar experiences to what Wiggins is claiming.

I don't think it's far-fetched for Candice to be the target of jealousy, but I don't think it was strictly directed at her femininity or heterosexuality, but rather a byproduct of it. I believe her femininity and physical beauty, in combination with her incredible talent, contributed to her mainstream appeal and collegiate clout. It’s likely the jealousy or feelings about her were more the result of her personality and the clout surrounding her, which her femininity/ appearance and heterosexuality contributed to. To me, it’s completely plausible to believe there’s jealousy based on popularity and appearance, especially when those two things are present in combination with super talent.

In the end, it’s great to hear other perspectives, but people are not created equal, so their experiences are disparate. Hearing DeLisa’s, Imani’s, and Lyashia’s experience do not tell me that Candice’s was not real, because they are not Candice. They were never surrounded in the same fame, do not look like her, play like her, or have the same personality as her. This doesn’t mean their three experiences aren’t real. I believe their stories refuting her, but I also believe Candice had a different experience.

Also note that Imani Boyette confirms Candice's sentiment about female athletes feeling like they have to be like their male counterparts. Imani says she doesn't want the press to ask her about her plans to have kids or her family because the press doesn't ask male athletes about that. In other words, Imani wants to be treated like the male NBA players. To me, Candice is saying she doesn't have to act like or be treated like "a man" to be a pro basketball player. I think her words were just badly misconstrued. She's an impressive player, and I don't think sharing her experience should discount her legacy.

 

[Plebe]

In the end, it’s great to hear other perspectives, but people are not created equal, so their experiences are disparate. Hearing DeLisa’s, Imani’s, and Lyashia’s experience do not tell me that Candice’s was not real, because they are not Candice. They were never surrounded in the same fame, do not look like her, play like her, or have the same personality as her. This doesn’t mean their three experiences aren’t real. I believe their stories refuting her, but I also believe Candice had a different experience.

So basically we have this:

Mistie Bass, Imani Boyette, Monique Currie, Rebecca Lobo, DeLisha Milton-Jones, Ticha Penicheiro, and every other heterosexual current or former player who has spoken on the topic: "I have never experienced or witnessed anything like what she's describing."

Candice Wiggins, in response: "Of course you haven't! That's because I'm prettier and more feminine and more popular than all of you!"

 

[CocoHusky]

I don't think it's far-fetched for Candice to be the target of jealousy, but I don't think it was strictly directed at her femininity or heterosexuality, but rather a byproduct of it. I believe her femininity and physical beauty, in combination with her incredible talent, contributed to her mainstream appeal and collegiate clout. It’s likely the jealousy or feelings about her were more the result of her personality and the clout surrounding her, which her femininity/ appearance and heterosexuality contributed to. To me, it’s completely plausible to believe there’s jealousy based on popularity and appearance, especially when those two things are present in combination with super talent.

In the end, it’s great to hear other perspectives, but people are not created equal, so their experiences are disparate. Hearing DeLisa’s, Imani’s, and Lyashia’s experience do not tell me that Candice’s was not real, because they are not Candice. They were never surrounded in the same fame, do not look like her, play like her, or have the same personality as her. This doesn’t mean their three experiences aren’t real. I believe their stories refuting her, but I also believe Candice had a different experience.

Also note that Imani Boyette confirms Candice's sentiment about female athletes feeling like they have to be like their male counterparts. Imani says she doesn't want the press to ask her about her plans to have kids or her family because the press doesn't ask male athletes about that. In other words, Imani wants to be treated like the male NBA players. To me, Candice is saying she doesn't have to act like or be treated like "a man" to be a pro basketball player. I think her words were just badly misconstrued. She's an impressive player, and I don't think sharing her experience should discount her legacy.

Candice is indeed a beautiful woman-one of many in the NBA. It strains credibility to believe that her beauty (which is not unique) led to an individual experience that is so far outside the norm of other players that have played in the WNBA.

 

[Decoli2]

It strains credibility to believe that her beauty (which is not unique) led to an individual experience that is so far outside the norm of other players that have played in the WNBA.

To put this in other terms, is it hard to believe individual reports of African Americans experiencing something so far outside of the norm during a routine traffic stop?[]

 

[Plebe]

To put this in other terms, is it hard to believe individual reports of African Americans experiencing something so far outside of the norm during a routine traffic stop? []

Either you have misunderstood what CocoHusky said or you are intentionally misrepresenting it. []