Why is the Big East terrible for UConn and where should UConn go instead? | Page 7 | The Boneyard

Why is the Big East terrible for UConn and where should UConn go instead?

CL82 said:
The cost to leave the ACC drops by something like 18 million a year until it levels out at $75 million in 2030. Departures may happen then.

I completely agree, though Connecticut's got no ability to compel any of this and instead has to wait for something to happen. ACC departures either in 2030 or in 2035 will likely be that "something".
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The Big 10 and SEC are done offering full memberships.
 
Kolumbo said:
We've already reached P2 status. They just haven't created a name for the ACC and Big 12 even though they are still far better off than the G6. We don't know where the dividing line will be or if a line will be relevant. A conference for football will be necessary. Then you have the fact that the bcu's and rutgerses are somehow on the right side of the line mucking things up. The Big East may be fine for programs like SJU because it doesn't have to fund football and if you have a billionaire like Mike Repole, even better. But even SJU may seek out greener pastures rather than hang out with Butler. Football separating, conference mergers, who knows. Something will happen but I'm sure we won't be able to have our cake (MSG) and eat it too (football conference)
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House completely changed the financial math for football. Trying to compete at the highest level has become cost prohibitive, and I fully expect more schools to follow the Boston College model of milking the conference fees as long as they can at minimal cost.

"Football drives the bus" worked when players only cost a scholarship, or a bag of cash from a booster. When a QB costs $5 million a year, the math simply doesn't work for at least half of the P4.
 
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I have a serious question for @nelsonmuntz :

Hypothetical scenario, three years from now two (for this excercise you can decide which two) ACC schools announce they are departing for a P-2 conference. This leads us to getting invited to either the ACC or B-12 (as a preventive measure, you can also decide which conference for this excercise) for all sports (we can ignore ice hockey and rowing).

The financial terms are less than a full share of league revenues, although better than what we receive in our current situation. Our conference revenues would then scale up over six, eight, ten years to a full share.

Do we take that deal?
 
FfldCntyFan said:
I have a serious question for @nelsonmuntz :

Hypothetical scenario, three years from now two (for this excercise you can decide which two) ACC schools announce they are departing for a P-2 conference. This leads us to getting invited to either the ACC or B-12 (as a preventive measure, you can also decide which conference for this excercise) for all sports (we can ignore ice hockey and rowing).

The financial terms are less than a full share of league revenues, although better than what we receive in our current situation. Our conference revenues would then scale up over six, eight, ten years to a full share.

Do we take that deal?
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Are you really all in on a single goldilocks scenario that will never happen? If the ACC or Big 12 gives UConn anything approximating a major revenue boost, then yes, we join. You are not coming up with some major insight with that scenario. In case you forgot, the last time one of those leagues lost two teams, the offer for UConn was a basketball only membership, with a look in on football in 8 years if we committed to spend tens of millions of spending with no additional revenue. And after considering it for a couple of weeks, the Big 12 pulled the offer.

How about this for a hypothetical that is not a complete fantasy solution. The ACC merges with the Big East to access northern urban markets. Because the merger is basically cost free for the ACC since the Big East brings its own TV contracts, they are willing to earn UConn football up over the next 5 years until the Huskies are at a full football membership.

Would you accept that offer, or is your anti-Big East bias so overwhelming that you would rather drive the athletic program off a cliff again like we did when we joined the AAC?
 
nelsonmuntz said:
The Big 10 and SEC are done offering full memberships.
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I’m not 100% sure that this is a true statement. At least not in the future. Both conferences will be r landing again when it’s the right time. When Oklahoma and Texas bagged ass for the SEC what did the Big 10 do? They hooked in USC and UCLA. Do you honestly think that when one conference pounces on other schools that the other will not make a move?
 
When Coach Mike Z came up with the ACC and Big East merging I was down with that. It would be even a better idea if Stanford, California and SMU were left out if this. They are not needed and basically should be in the Big 12.
 
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nelsonmuntz said:
Are you really all in on a single goldilocks scenario that will never happen?
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Goldilocks scenario? Yeah, we would need a perfect set of very unlikely events for another conference to cosider us. All conferences above the Big East are at perfect membership composition and it would take some unrealistic, unforseen event for any power conference to consider moving form their current hand.
nelsonmuntz said:
If the ACC or Big 12 gives UConn anything approximating a major revenue boost, then yes, we join. You are not coming up with some major insight with that scenario. In case you forgot, the last time one of those leagues lost two teams, the offer for UConn was a basketball only membership, with a look in on football in 8 years if we committed to spend tens of millions of spending with no additional revenue. And after considering it for a couple of weeks, the Big 12 pulled the offer.
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Still unable to directly respond. A standard Waylon tactic, look for something that can be attached to the issue that can be dissected and shown as a flaw or weakness in the issue, present that as the central core of the issue and thn claim some higher ground.

That attempted pursuit of us by the Big-12 ws in fact pursuit by that conference's commissioner, Yormark, with the hope that he could seel the arrangement to membership that wasn't interested. I'm not sure what that has to do with my question other than you usig it as a tactic to try to shift things, but.....
nelsonmuntz said:
How about this for a hypothetical that is not a complete fantasy solution. The ACC merges with the Big East to access northern urban markets. Because the merger is basically cost free for the ACC since the Big East brings its own TV contracts, they are willing to earn UConn football up over the next 5 years until the Huskies are at a full football membership.

Would you accept that offer, or is your anti-Big East bias so overwhelming that you would rather drive the athletic program off a cliff again like we did when we joined the AAC?
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Nice move. Call what is very likely to transpired over the next half doaen years a goldilocks scenario, then presenting a true goldilocks scenario as a legitmate counter argument. If that were to happen, yes, we absolutely accept. If I were to hit the next four drawings of both powerball and megamillions that will have net payouts exceeding $100 million, there would be never be any problems again with our athletic department as it would have a quarter billion dollar athletics endowment, but each scenario is a dream.

The ACC will not add the incredible amount ocf deadweight that the bulk of the Big East is comprised of unless they were to lose far more members (it would need to be at least six to eight) than anyone anticipates, and then the move there would be merely a bandaid attempting to reattach a severed limb. What would Seton Hall, Providence, Creighton, Marquette Butler and Xavier offer any conference with any substance? That is more than half of the conference and 60% of what has been the quality over the time since we returned. Georgetown and DePaul seem to be making it clear that their stature from the 1980's, similar to UNLV, is forwver trapped in the distant past and St John's will return to being St John's once again the day Pitino finally calls it quits.

There are two programs in the Big East with any true gravitas and one is currently being praised on their return to prominence during a season that will likely see them as an eight or nine seed in the tournament. Your narcissism is borderline off the charts now, you need to step back and reassess your perception of reality or seek professional help if you are unable to do so on your own.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
Goldilocks scenario? Yeah, we would need a perfect set of very unlikely events for another conference to cosider us. All conferences above the Big East are at perfect membership composition and it would take some unrealistic, unforseen event for any power conference to consider moving form their current hand.

Still unable to directly respond. A standard Waylon tactic, look for something that can be attached to the issue that can be dissected and shown as a flaw or weakness in the issue, present that as the central core of the issue and thn claim some higher ground.

That attempted pursuit of us by the Big-12 ws in fact pursuit by that conference's commissioner, Yormark, with the hope that he could seel the arrangement to membership that wasn't interested. I'm not sure what that has to do with my question other than you usig it as a tactic to try to shift things, but.....

Nice move. Call what is very likely to transpired over the next half doaen years a goldilocks scenario, then presenting a true goldilocks scenario as a legitmate counter argument. If that were to happen, yes, we absolutely accept. If I were to hit the next four drawings of both powerball and megamillions that will have net payouts exceeding $100 million, there would be never be any problems again with our athletic department as it would have a quarter billion dollar athletics endowment, but each scenario is a dream.

The ACC will not add the incredible amount ocf deadweight that the bulk of the Big East is comprised of unless they were to lose far more members (it would need to be at least six to eight) than anyone anticipates, and then the move there would be merely a bandaid attempting to reattach a severed limb. What would Seton Hall, Providence, Creighton, Marquette Butler and Xavier offer any conference with any substance? That is more than half of the conference and 60% of what has been the quality over the time since we returned. Georgetown and DePaul seem to be making it clear that their stature from the 1980's, similar to UNLV, is forwver trapped in the distant past and St John's will return to being St John's once again the day Pitino finally calls it quits.

There are two programs in the Big East with any true gravitas and one is currently being praised on their return to prominence during a season that will likely see them as an eight or nine seed in the tournament. Your narcissism is borderline off the charts now, you need to step back and reassess your perception of reality or seek professional help if you are unable to do so on your own.
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Let's ask nicely and hope the ACC takes us, says UConn fans every year since 2003. Let us know how it turns out.

You don't want networks going down the list of ACC schools, because if there is a meaningful raid of the ACC, the likely scenario is that whatever is left would be a train wreck.

I think there is a high probability of a major upheaval with colleges and college sports in the next 5 years. It won't look anything like your "someone takes two schools" scenario though. The economic model of college sports is cooked, and colleges have enough of their own problems without subsidizing athletic programs that are losing fistfuls of cash as far as the eye can see. Boosters are cooling on NIL given the low ROI and players often seemingly mailing it in, and there are about a dozen places the entire system can break.

Anyone that repeats any version of "football drives the bus" loses all their credibility immediately because it shows they can't tell the difference between revenues and profits, and should probably focus on balancing their checkbook rather than telling the rest of us how they think expansion works.

So forgive me if I don't go along with the "Hope as a Plan" scenario of waiting quietly for two, and only two, schools to leave the ACC and that league to invite UConn and pay us something approximating full freight to do so. None of you guys have been right once.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Because this is the "Conference Realignment Board". It says so right on the top. This is the place to discuss away on realignment.

UConn is having a potential Final Four/National Championship season, yet every single fudging thread on the Basketball Board turns into an anti-Big East rant by about 5 posters, who then spiral the thread into a realignment rant. It is impossible to discuss basketball, and these handful of UConn "fans" are doing it on purpose.
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I guess the alternative is to pretend the Big East beyond UConn and SJU is relevant this year.
 
John said:
I guess the alternative is to pretend the Big East beyond UConn and SJU is relevant this year.
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The alternative is discussing UConn basketball. You should try it.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
House completely changed the financial math for football. Trying to compete at the highest level has become cost prohibitive, and I fully expect more schools to follow the Boston College model of milking the conference fees as long as they can at minimal cost.

"Football drives the bus" worked when players only cost a scholarship, or a bag of cash from a booster. When a QB costs $5 million a year, the math simply doesn't work for at least half of the P4.
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I agree, which is why I said we already have the P2. Everyone else will still try to compete but not with the financial backing of the P2. Eventually (maybe soon) the ACC's buyer's remorse will force it to do something because FSU and Clemson will get tired of trying to compete with less money while also supporting bcu and cuse. something's gotta give.

I'd love to see an ACC-Big East merger but that seems impossible after the ACC already pillaged the Big East. And Duke-UNC probably want to keep their place as the only show in town basketball-wise.
 
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Kolumbo said:
I agree, which is why I said we already have the P2. Everyone else will still try to compete but not with the financial backing of the P2. Eventually (maybe soon) the ACC's buyer's remorse will force it to do something because FSU and Clemson will get tired of trying to compete with less money while also supporting bcu and cuse. something's gotta give.

I'd love to see an ACC-Big East merger but that seems impossible after the ACC already pillaged the Big East. And Duke-UNC probably want to keep their place as the only show in town basketball-wise.
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Do you think all these SEC schools can continue to support $50+ million football payrolls for long? How long can TWO Mississippi schools make that math work? There is NO extra money to cover these bills in many of these schools.

Where would the money for FSU and Clemson come from? Do you think the Big 10 or SEC are handing out full memberships? No chance.

I hate BCU as much as anyone, but they have always been ahead of the curve when it comes to college athletics. Slashing support was absolutely the right move. If they can’t compete, why bother trying?
 
ConnMotors said:
When Coach Mike Z came up with the ACC and Big East merging I was down with that. It would be even a better idea if Stanford, California and SMU were left out if this. They are not needed and basically should be in the Big 12.
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There is no world in which UConn is more important than Stanford and California.
 
The Big East has two issues right now:

1. Georgetown spends like a major conference program but has nothing to show for it. Either Cooley needs to go or other internal issues need to be solved.

2. Four programs in the league are not pulling their weight financially: Seton Hall, Xavier, Butler, and DePaul.

The Big East has a TV deal with good visibility and a financial payout for basketball similar to that of the ACC and Big 12. It’s not all bad.

Of the seven programs that spend adequately on revenue sharing, three are going to the tournament this year (UConn, St. John’s, Nova).

UConn and Nova both have the money and a stable coaching situation for the foreseeable future.

St. John’s will not have Pitino forever, but if Repole continues to bankroll them, they will get a good replacement.

Providence simply needs a new coach. They spent $10 million on their roster this year (according to Field of 68). If they get a new coach and continue to spend, they will be fine.

Marquette and Creighton both spend a lot. McDemott’s successor needs to be good, and Shaka needs to embrace the portal.

I’m not sure what Georgetown’s problem is but they have money for a top coach and a really good roster.

Serious discussions need to be had about getting Seton Hall, Xavier, and Butler up to $9 million per year in revenue sharing.

Also, it’s probably time to boot DePaul from the league. They don’t bring the Chicago market, they don’t spend, and they’ve sucked forever.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Let's ask nicely and hope the ACC takes us, says UConn fans every year since 2003. Let us know how it turns out.

You don't want networks going down the list of ACC schools, because if there is a meaningful raid of the ACC, the likely scenario is that whatever is left would be a train wreck.

I think there is a high probability of a major upheaval with colleges and college sports in the next 5 years. It won't look anything like your "someone takes two schools" scenario though. The economic model of college sports is cooked, and colleges have enough of their own problems without subsidizing athletic programs that are losing fistfuls of cash as far as the eye can see. Boosters are cooling on NIL given the low ROI and players often seemingly mailing it in, and there are about a dozen places the entire system can break.

Anyone that repeats any version of "football drives the bus" loses all their credibility immediately because it shows they can't tell the difference between revenues and profits, and should probably focus on balancing their checkbook rather than telling the rest of us how they think expansion works.

So forgive me if I don't go along with the "Hope as a Plan" scenario of waiting quietly for two, and only two, schools to leave the ACC and that league to invite UConn and pay us something approximating full freight to do so. None of you guys have been right once.
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What do you expect this likely upheaval to look like? If football splits off, then I suppose that solves a lot of problems and the entire basketball fan base would probably be much happier going back to regional rivalries. If the P2 split off, then everyone else is at the cheap kiddy table which makes finding a football conference easier for UConn. But it seems highly unlikely UConn and the Big East would continue forward with the status quo in a major upheaval scenario. UConn would have options.
 
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Kolumbo said:
What do you expect this likely upheaval to look like? If football splits off, then I suppose that solves a lot of problems and the entire basketball fan base would probably be much happier going back to regional rivalries. If the P2 split off, then everyone else is at the cheap kiddy table which makes finding a football conference easier for UConn. But it seems highly unlikely UConn and the Big East would continue forward with the status quo in a major upheaval scenario. UConn would have options.
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Why is your default position that football suddenly becoming financially unviable for universities is bad for the Big East? Walk me through that math.
 
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The Big East is the best available option but at the same time is really bad for us.

Just look at the polls today. They will penalize us unreasonably for losing to a good St. John’s team.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Why is your default position that football suddenly becoming financially unviable for universities is bad for the Big East? Walk me through that math.
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I have a hard time figuring out what exactly your argument is. We both believe the NIL bubble will burst sooner rather than later for the majority of football programs. Sooner or later more programs than not will realize they can't keep trying to keep up with the Joneses. Football will be financially viable, just not at the current spending levels. That creates more opportunity for UConn to join a football conference, whether basketball stays in the Big East or not.
 
Kolumbo said:
I agree, which is why I said we already have the P2. Everyone else will still try to compete but not with the financial backing of the P2. Eventually (maybe soon) the ACC's buyer's remorse will force it to do something because FSU and Clemson will get tired of trying to compete with less money while also supporting bcu and cuse. something's gotta give.

I'd love to see an ACC-Big East merger but that seems impossible after the ACC already pillaged the Big East. And Duke-UNC probably want to keep their place as the only show in town basketball-wise.
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Why would the ACC want to merge with the NBE? The most certainly could get anyone they want without taking the dreck. UConn would join tomorrow. Villanova would too. Who else would they want? Georgetown because BCU needs a help holding up the league? St John’s who couldn’t even find a coach willing to take the job last go round? What happens when Rick leaves?

Duke and UNC are undoubtedly the cream of the ACC but they are not the only major players. Virginia, Louisville, NC State have long histories of success. Syracuse is going through what many teams go through when they lose a Hall of Fame coach. Ask Villanova how that can go. We’ll see if they get it right this time? Tell me why they want to add Butler and DePaul and Georgetown and Providence.
 
freescooter said:
Why would the ACC want to merge with the NBE? The most certainly could get anyone they want without taking the dreck. UConn would join tomorrow. Villanova would too. Who else would they want? Georgetown because BCU needs a help holding up the league? St John’s who couldn’t even find a coach willing to take the job last go round? What happens when Rick leaves?

Duke and UNC are undoubtedly the cream of the ACC but they are not the only major players. Virginia, Louisville, NC State have long histories of success. Syracuse is going through what many teams go through when they lose a Hall of Fame coach. Ask Villanova how that can go. We’ll see if they get it right this time? Tell me why they want to add Butler and DePaul and Georgetown and Providence.
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The ACC wouldn't want a merger but if it got pillaged and half the conference left it may need to take drastic measures. duke and unc are the only perennial powers these days. I could see a scenario where the ACC remnants would want to merge with the Big East if only to remain relevant in basketball. Obviously the chances are slim but who knows what will happen. Keep butler and xavier along for wins. I'm optimistic about depaul for some reason. Georgetown is the biggest failure given its resources (almost $4 billion endowment) and market but even Georgetown should be able to figure it out again after hanging itself with Ewing. DePaul, Georgetown, SJU - all large Catholic universities 20k+ enrollments in big markets. They need to succeed for the Big East to thrive.
 
ConnMotors said:
I think that we have seen the last of conference jumping that really impacted the scope of landscape for a while. For now everyone waits for the ACC’s media rights deal to end in 2035-36. That is unless schools find a way which both Clemson and Florida State could not do. Notre Dame will still be the almighty boss and do as they please.

So what happens to UConn? Basically they are stuck in the Big East for all sports and as an Independent in football. For now it doesn’t matter. Football can control whatever schools that they want to schedule as an Indy. Hurley and Auriemma are still at the top of their games. Our Olympic sports are top notch as well as the facilities that they play in.

In ten years moves will be made. The Big Ten and SEC will swipe ACC schools. Who acts first gets the bigger gifts. Georgia Tech, Miami, North Carolina and Virginia all AAU Universities will land in the Big 10. That league will now have recruiting in the Southeast into Florida. The SEC will grab Clemson, Virginia Tech and possibly NC State. Florida State is a toss up if they wanted them but they do not need them. Other than that there really isn’t another school worthwhile to grab. So eventually the SEC poaches a school from the Big 12. Which one? That is a good question. It can be Kansas, one of the Arizona schools or Utah.

That leaves the ACC with a broken core and will need to refill. But first, If I were Stanford, California or SMU I would really talk to the Big 12 and get your asses out of the East Coast. This is when UConn finally gets into the ACC along with USF and other schools that the league wants to snag from The American.
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Things will happen much sooner because of BIG and SEC media deals coming to close.

Everything I’ve heard is 2028-2030 for next round
 
TLDR: I think we're stuck in the Big East so we need the other teams to suck it up and get better. I'd like us to find a football home because I don't think Indy is sustainable... or fun.

Long version: We love to reference the Peanuts comic of Lucy pulling the ball from Charlie Brown. I thought Lucy was a jerk the first few times I saw this. But, even as a kid, I started to get annoyed by Charlie Brown falling for the trick every single time. At least take a less aggressive approach to the ball Chuck (Brown... not me).

We can claim that the Big 12 and ACC, and even the Big Ten have made mistakes in taking teams over UConn. But, while they are hurt by the bad decisions, we are hurt more. I fully expect UConn to be in the Big East for basketball for the foreseeable future. That includes after any 2030 shake up. For whatever reason, we're unwanted. We're like the spotted elephant or the doll in Rudolph. They weren't even misfits... but nobody wanted them for some reason.

The only way I see us getting picked by the Big 12 or ACC is if they get decimated. At that point, I really don't know if it would be worth leaving the Big East. It certainly wouldn't be smart financially to pay an exit fee and joining fee should the best properties be poached. I can see the ACC, for example, taking USF, Memphis, Tulane and others ahead of UConn until it would look like the AAC part 2. Why? Why wouldn't they. We haven't even been a rumored addition since we fell asleep and let Louisville send in the hookers. And the Big 12 totally used us to get their PAC 12 group by scaring them into thinking they'd take us.

If we get picked, and the deal works, then great. Otherwise, we need to bully the rest of the Big East into stepping up their basketball. The schools in the Big East like to think they are superior to the Catholic schools of the A10 or lower. They need to spend money to keep that perception as reality.

I do think we'd be better off in a football conference if we can pull it off without too much financial damage, but there is no G5 that I'd want our other sports to join.
 
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I said that when the ACC media rights deal comes to an end and schools become available then this is when the next wave of realignment takes place. One person said that the SEC will not expand. I’m sorry but I cannot agree with that comment. The Big 10 wants to move into the Southeast and Florida. The ACC will be hung out to dry. Miami, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, Clemson, Florida State are all schools mentioned as saying see ya at some point.

I mentioned that California, SMU and Stanford should bag ass. This was said just because of the raid that would take place. Plus, the Big 12 would be a better fit for all three of those schools. Are there any teams in the Big 12 that the SEC would want to add? I mentioned one of the Arizona schools and Utah would be great additions.

In the Big East you have 10 basketball schools and UConn which I will refer to as a football schools. Once departing universities decide on their new destinations how many schools are left as part of the ACC? Left behind would be Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College, Duke and Wake Forest. Then NC State, Georgia Tech and Florida State are probable. Add UConn and any East Coast school from the American Conference. This then becomes a 20 school league.

Clemson, Miami, North Carolina and both Virginia schools are certain to say good bye. Notre Dame can do whatever it wants as they normally do. Is this going to happen? I doubt it. But for UConn this would be the only chance of us to get into a real conference and get out of being an Independent.

Dream on…..
 
ConnMotors said:
I said that when the ACC media rights deal comes to an end and schools become available then this is when the next wave of realignment takes place. One person said that the SEC will not expand. I’m sorry but I cannot agree with that comment. The Big 10 wants to move into the Southeast and Florida. The ACC will be hung out to dry. Miami, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, Clemson, Florida State are all schools mentioned as saying see ya at some point.

I mentioned that California, SMU and Stanford should bag ass. This was said just because of the raid that would take place. Plus, the Big 12 would be a better fit for all three of those schools. Are there any teams in the Big 12 that the SEC would want to add? I mentioned one of the Arizona schools and Utah would be great additions.

In the Big East you have 10 basketball schools and UConn which I will refer to as a football schools. Once departing universities decide on their new destinations how many schools are left as part of the ACC? Left behind would be Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College, Duke and Wake Forest. Then NC State, Georgia Tech and Florida State are probable. Add UConn and any East Coast school from the American Conference. This then becomes a 20 school league.

Clemson, Miami, North Carolina and both Virginia schools are certain to say good bye. Notre Dame can do whatever it wants as they normally do. Is this going to happen? I doubt it. But for UConn this would be the only chance of us to get into a real conference and get out of being an Independent.

Dream on…..
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Go ahead and disagree but many schools in the P2 are not pleased with how big these conferences are getting and the travel to go with it.

And where are both Virginia schools going? Gimme a break. Maybe if Tech moves for free. Even then.
 
uconnyankee said:
Things will happen much sooner because of BIG and SEC media deals coming to close.

Everything I’ve heard is 2028-2030 for next round
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Where do you hear things about Conference realignment? You better not mean another thread on these boards... ;)
 
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