Why is the Big East terrible for UConn and where should UConn go instead?

[mike012]

Hopefully next year. UConn , St. John’s, Villanova, Creighton and Marquette are all preseason top 25 teams and suddenly the BE is back in business

 

[Kolumbo]

The reason I started this thread is because a handful of posters feel the need to beat this topic to death in every thread about every subject on the basketball board.

I will let you in on a secret. Every single poster who has ever posted on the Realignment Board or in a thread about realignment anywhere on this site, or any other site, knows most, all, or more than this about this topic. Many of us have been posting about this topic for 24 years.

The P6 became the P5 became the P4 could become the P3, P2 or P1. Got it. Is there a plan anywhere on this site for getting Connecticut on the other side of the dividing line? Because I read a lot of hope as a plan. How has that worked for the last 24 years?

We've already reached P2 status. They just haven't created a name for the ACC and Big 12 even though they are still far better off than the G6. We don't know where the dividing line will be or if a line will be relevant. A conference for football will be necessary. Then you have the fact that the bcu's and rutgerses are somehow on the right side of the line mucking things up. The Big East may be fine for programs like SJU because it doesn't have to fund football and if you have a billionaire like Mike Repole, even better. But even SJU may seek out greener pastures rather than hang out with Butler. Football separating, conference mergers, who knows. Something will happen but I'm sure we won't be able to have our cake (MSG) and eat it too (football conference)

 

[ConnMotors]

Why is the Big East terrible for UConn and where should UConn go instead?​

The Big East and INDY Football is perfect for Uconn until it ain't...$$$... because unfortunately, as has been the case for years, that's all Uconn controls......#ACC or #BIG 12

P.S. "Uconn's Big East exit fee is $30 million within the first six years of membership, dropping to $15 million after that, and to $10 million after 10 years....they left the (AAC) for the Big East in 2020"

I think that we have seen the last of conference jumping that really impacted the scope of landscape for a while. For now everyone waits for the ACC’s media rights deal to end in 2035-36. That is unless schools find a way which both Clemson and Florida State could not do. Notre Dame will still be the almighty boss and do as they please.

So what happens to UConn? Basically they are stuck in the Big East for all sports and as an Independent in football. For now it doesn’t matter. Football can control whatever schools that they want to schedule as an Indy. Hurley and Auriemma are still at the top of their games. Our Olympic sports are top notch as well as the facilities that they play in.

In ten years moves will be made. The Big Ten and SEC will swipe ACC schools. Who acts first gets the bigger gifts. Georgia Tech, Miami, North Carolina and Virginia all AAU Universities will land in the Big 10. That league will now have recruiting in the Southeast into Florida. The SEC will grab Clemson, Virginia Tech and possibly NC State. Florida State is a toss up if they wanted them but they do not need them. Other than that there really isn’t another school worthwhile to grab. So eventually the SEC poaches a school from the Big 12. Which one? That is a good question. It can be Kansas, one of the Arizona schools or Utah.

That leaves the ACC with a broken core and will need to refill. But first, If I were Stanford, California or SMU I would really talk to the Big 12 and get your asses out of the East Coast. This is when UConn finally gets into the ACC along with USF and other schools that the league wants to snag from The American.

 

[CL82]

I think that we have seen the last of conference jumping that really impacted the scope of landscape for a while. For now everyone waits for the ACC’s media rights deal to end in 2035-36. That is unless schools find a way which both Clemson and Florida State could not do. Notre Dame will still be the almighty boss and do as they please.

So what happens to UConn? Basically they are stuck in the Big East for all sports and as an Independent in football. For now it doesn’t matter. Football can control whatever schools that they want to schedule as an Indy. Hurley and Auriemma are still at the top of their games. Our Olympic sports are top notch as well as the facilities that they play in.

In ten years moves will be made. The Big Ten and SEC will swipe ACC schools. Who acts first gets the bigger gifts. Georgia Tech, Miami, North Carolina and Virginia all AAU Universities will land in the Big 10. That league will now have recruiting in the Southeast into Florida. The SEC will grab Clemson, Virginia Tech and possibly NC State. Florida State is a toss up if they wanted them but they do not need them. Other than that there really isn’t another school worthwhile to grab. So eventually the SEC poaches a school from the Big 12. Which one? That is a good question. It can be Kansas, one of the Arizona schools or Utah.

That leaves the ACC with a broken core and will need to refill. But first, If I were Stanford, California or SMU I would really talk to the Big 12 and get your asses out of the East Coast. This is when UConn finally gets into the ACC along with USF and other schools that the league wants to snag from The American.

The cost to leave the ACC drops by something like 18 million a year until it levels out at $75 million in 2030. Departures may happen then.

I completely agree, though Connecticut's got no ability to compel any of this and instead has to wait for something to happen. ACC departures either in 2030 or in 2035 will likely be that "something".

 

[nelsonmuntz]

So a topic you feel has been beat to death, you thought to start a thread about it?

And the plan? There's no secret sauce. Win, put people in the stands, make more money and try to negotiate into one of the conferences and we already trying to do all those things.

It continues to be talked about because it is important and because there are actually people out there that think we should stay in the Big East.

Because this is the "Conference Realignment Board". It says so right on the top. This is the place to discuss away on realignment.

UConn is having a potential Final Four/National Championship season, yet every single fudging thread on the Basketball Board turns into an anti-Big East rant by about 5 posters, who then spiral the thread into a realignment rant. It is impossible to discuss basketball, and these handful of UConn "fans" are doing it on purpose.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The cost to leave the ACC drops by something like 18 million a year until it levels out at $75 million in 2030. Departures may happen then.

I completely agree, though Connecticut's got no ability to compel any of this and instead has to wait for something to happen. ACC departures either in 2030 or in 2035 will likely be that "something".

The Big 10 and SEC are done offering full memberships.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

We've already reached P2 status. They just haven't created a name for the ACC and Big 12 even though they are still far better off than the G6. We don't know where the dividing line will be or if a line will be relevant. A conference for football will be necessary. Then you have the fact that the bcu's and rutgerses are somehow on the right side of the line mucking things up. The Big East may be fine for programs like SJU because it doesn't have to fund football and if you have a billionaire like Mike Repole, even better. But even SJU may seek out greener pastures rather than hang out with Butler. Football separating, conference mergers, who knows. Something will happen but I'm sure we won't be able to have our cake (MSG) and eat it too (football conference)

House completely changed the financial math for football. Trying to compete at the highest level has become cost prohibitive, and I fully expect more schools to follow the Boston College model of milking the conference fees as long as they can at minimal cost.

"Football drives the bus" worked when players only cost a scholarship, or a bag of cash from a booster. When a QB costs $5 million a year, the math simply doesn't work for at least half of the P4.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I have a serious question for @nelsonmuntz :

Hypothetical scenario, three years from now two (for this excercise you can decide which two) ACC schools announce they are departing for a P-2 conference. This leads us to getting invited to either the ACC or B-12 (as a preventive measure, you can also decide which conference for this excercise) for all sports (we can ignore ice hockey and rowing).

The financial terms are less than a full share of league revenues, although better than what we receive in our current situation. Our conference revenues would then scale up over six, eight, ten years to a full share.

Do we take that deal?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I have a serious question for @nelsonmuntz :

Hypothetical scenario, three years from now two (for this excercise you can decide which two) ACC schools announce they are departing for a P-2 conference. This leads us to getting invited to either the ACC or B-12 (as a preventive measure, you can also decide which conference for this excercise) for all sports (we can ignore ice hockey and rowing).

The financial terms are less than a full share of league revenues, although better than what we receive in our current situation. Our conference revenues would then scale up over six, eight, ten years to a full share.

Do we take that deal?

Are you really all in on a single goldilocks scenario that will never happen? If the ACC or Big 12 gives UConn anything approximating a major revenue boost, then yes, we join. You are not coming up with some major insight with that scenario. In case you forgot, the last time one of those leagues lost two teams, the offer for UConn was a basketball only membership, with a look in on football in 8 years if we committed to spend tens of millions of spending with no additional revenue. And after considering it for a couple of weeks, the Big 12 pulled the offer.

How about this for a hypothetical that is not a complete fantasy solution. The ACC merges with the Big East to access northern urban markets. Because the merger is basically cost free for the ACC since the Big East brings its own TV contracts, they are willing to earn UConn football up over the next 5 years until the Huskies are at a full football membership.

Would you accept that offer, or is your anti-Big East bias so overwhelming that you would rather drive the athletic program off a cliff again like we did when we joined the AAC?

 

[ConnMotors]

The Big 10 and SEC are done offering full memberships.

I’m not 100% sure that this is a true statement. At least not in the future. Both conferences will be r landing again when it’s the right time. When Oklahoma and Texas bagged ass for the SEC what did the Big 10 do? They hooked in USC and UCLA. Do you honestly think that when one conference pounces on other schools that the other will not make a move?

 

[ConnMotors]

When Coach Mike Z came up with the ACC and Big East merging I was down with that. It would be even a better idea if Stanford, California and SMU were left out if this. They are not needed and basically should be in the Big 12.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Are you really all in on a single goldilocks scenario that will never happen?

Goldilocks scenario? Yeah, we would need a perfect set of very unlikely events for another conference to cosider us. All conferences above the Big East are at perfect membership composition and it would take some unrealistic, unforseen event for any power conference to consider moving form their current hand.

If the ACC or Big 12 gives UConn anything approximating a major revenue boost, then yes, we join. You are not coming up with some major insight with that scenario. In case you forgot, the last time one of those leagues lost two teams, the offer for UConn was a basketball only membership, with a look in on football in 8 years if we committed to spend tens of millions of spending with no additional revenue. And after considering it for a couple of weeks, the Big 12 pulled the offer.

Still unable to directly respond. A standard Waylon tactic, look for something that can be attached to the issue that can be dissected and shown as a flaw or weakness in the issue, present that as the central core of the issue and thn claim some higher ground.

That attempted pursuit of us by the Big-12 ws in fact pursuit by that conference's commissioner, Yormark, with the hope that he could seel the arrangement to membership that wasn't interested. I'm not sure what that has to do with my question other than you usig it as a tactic to try to shift things, but.....

How about this for a hypothetical that is not a complete fantasy solution. The ACC merges with the Big East to access northern urban markets. Because the merger is basically cost free for the ACC since the Big East brings its own TV contracts, they are willing to earn UConn football up over the next 5 years until the Huskies are at a full football membership.

Would you accept that offer, or is your anti-Big East bias so overwhelming that you would rather drive the athletic program off a cliff again like we did when we joined the AAC?

Nice move. Call what is very likely to transpired over the next half doaen years a goldilocks scenario, then presenting a true goldilocks scenario as a legitmate counter argument. If that were to happen, yes, we absolutely accept. If I were to hit the next four drawings of both powerball and megamillions that will have net payouts exceeding $100 million, there would be never be any problems again with our athletic department as it would have a quarter billion dollar athletics endowment, but each scenario is a dream.

The ACC will not add the incredible amount ocf deadweight that the bulk of the Big East is comprised of unless they were to lose far more members (it would need to be at least six to eight) than anyone anticipates, and then the move there would be merely a bandaid attempting to reattach a severed limb. What would Seton Hall, Providence, Creighton, Marquette Butler and Xavier offer any conference with any substance? That is more than half of the conference and 60% of what has been the quality over the time since we returned. Georgetown and DePaul seem to be making it clear that their stature from the 1980's, similar to UNLV, is forwver trapped in the distant past and St John's will return to being St John's once again the day Pitino finally calls it quits.

There are two programs in the Big East with any true gravitas and one is currently being praised on their return to prominence during a season that will likely see them as an eight or nine seed in the tournament. Your narcissism is borderline off the charts now, you need to step back and reassess your perception of reality or seek professional help if you are unable to do so on your own.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Goldilocks scenario? Yeah, we would need a perfect set of very unlikely events for another conference to cosider us. All conferences above the Big East are at perfect membership composition and it would take some unrealistic, unforseen event for any power conference to consider moving form their current hand.

Still unable to directly respond. A standard Waylon tactic, look for something that can be attached to the issue that can be dissected and shown as a flaw or weakness in the issue, present that as the central core of the issue and thn claim some higher ground.

That attempted pursuit of us by the Big-12 ws in fact pursuit by that conference's commissioner, Yormark, with the hope that he could seel the arrangement to membership that wasn't interested. I'm not sure what that has to do with my question other than you usig it as a tactic to try to shift things, but.....

Nice move. Call what is very likely to transpired over the next half doaen years a goldilocks scenario, then presenting a true goldilocks scenario as a legitmate counter argument. If that were to happen, yes, we absolutely accept. If I were to hit the next four drawings of both powerball and megamillions that will have net payouts exceeding $100 million, there would be never be any problems again with our athletic department as it would have a quarter billion dollar athletics endowment, but each scenario is a dream.

The ACC will not add the incredible amount ocf deadweight that the bulk of the Big East is comprised of unless they were to lose far more members (it would need to be at least six to eight) than anyone anticipates, and then the move there would be merely a bandaid attempting to reattach a severed limb. What would Seton Hall, Providence, Creighton, Marquette Butler and Xavier offer any conference with any substance? That is more than half of the conference and 60% of what has been the quality over the time since we returned. Georgetown and DePaul seem to be making it clear that their stature from the 1980's, similar to UNLV, is forwver trapped in the distant past and St John's will return to being St John's once again the day Pitino finally calls it quits.

There are two programs in the Big East with any true gravitas and one is currently being praised on their return to prominence during a season that will likely see them as an eight or nine seed in the tournament. Your narcissism is borderline off the charts now, you need to step back and reassess your perception of reality or seek professional help if you are unable to do so on your own.

Let's ask nicely and hope the ACC takes us, says UConn fans every year since 2003. Let us know how it turns out.

You don't want networks going down the list of ACC schools, because if there is a meaningful raid of the ACC, the likely scenario is that whatever is left would be a train wreck.

I think there is a high probability of a major upheaval with colleges and college sports in the next 5 years. It won't look anything like your "someone takes two schools" scenario though. The economic model of college sports is cooked, and colleges have enough of their own problems without subsidizing athletic programs that are losing fistfuls of cash as far as the eye can see. Boosters are cooling on NIL given the low ROI and players often seemingly mailing it in, and there are about a dozen places the entire system can break.

Anyone that repeats any version of "football drives the bus" loses all their credibility immediately because it shows they can't tell the difference between revenues and profits, and should probably focus on balancing their checkbook rather than telling the rest of us how they think expansion works.

So forgive me if I don't go along with the "Hope as a Plan" scenario of waiting quietly for two, and only two, schools to leave the ACC and that league to invite UConn and pay us something approximating full freight to do so. None of you guys have been right once.

 

[John]

Because this is the "Conference Realignment Board". It says so right on the top. This is the place to discuss away on realignment.

UConn is having a potential Final Four/National Championship season, yet every single fudging thread on the Basketball Board turns into an anti-Big East rant by about 5 posters, who then spiral the thread into a realignment rant. It is impossible to discuss basketball, and these handful of UConn "fans" are doing it on purpose.

I guess the alternative is to pretend the Big East beyond UConn and SJU is relevant this year.

 

[CL82]

Still unable to directly respond.

Honestly, did you really expect anything different?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I guess the alternative is to pretend the Big East beyond UConn and SJU is relevant this year.

The alternative is discussing UConn basketball. You should try it.

 

[Kolumbo]

House completely changed the financial math for football. Trying to compete at the highest level has become cost prohibitive, and I fully expect more schools to follow the Boston College model of milking the conference fees as long as they can at minimal cost.

"Football drives the bus" worked when players only cost a scholarship, or a bag of cash from a booster. When a QB costs $5 million a year, the math simply doesn't work for at least half of the P4.

I agree, which is why I said we already have the P2. Everyone else will still try to compete but not with the financial backing of the P2. Eventually (maybe soon) the ACC's buyer's remorse will force it to do something because FSU and Clemson will get tired of trying to compete with less money while also supporting bcu and cuse. something's gotta give.

I'd love to see an ACC-Big East merger but that seems impossible after the ACC already pillaged the Big East. And Duke-UNC probably want to keep their place as the only show in town basketball-wise.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I agree, which is why I said we already have the P2. Everyone else will still try to compete but not with the financial backing of the P2. Eventually (maybe soon) the ACC's buyer's remorse will force it to do something because FSU and Clemson will get tired of trying to compete with less money while also supporting bcu and cuse. something's gotta give.

I'd love to see an ACC-Big East merger but that seems impossible after the ACC already pillaged the Big East. And Duke-UNC probably want to keep their place as the only show in town basketball-wise.

Do you think all these SEC schools can continue to support $50+ million football payrolls for long? How long can TWO Mississippi schools make that math work? There is NO extra money to cover these bills in many of these schools.

Where would the money for FSU and Clemson come from? Do you think the Big 10 or SEC are handing out full memberships? No chance.

I hate BCU as much as anyone, but they have always been ahead of the curve when it comes to college athletics. Slashing support was absolutely the right move. If they can’t compete, why bother trying?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

When Coach Mike Z came up with the ACC and Big East merging I was down with that. It would be even a better idea if Stanford, California and SMU were left out if this. They are not needed and basically should be in the Big 12.

There is no world in which UConn is more important than Stanford and California.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Honestly, did you really expect anything different?

You two live in a fantasy world where if we ask nicely they will say yes.

 

[shizzle787]

The Big East has two issues right now:

1. Georgetown spends like a major conference program but has nothing to show for it. Either Cooley needs to go or other internal issues need to be solved.

2. Four programs in the league are not pulling their weight financially: Seton Hall, Xavier, Butler, and DePaul.

The Big East has a TV deal with good visibility and a financial payout for basketball similar to that of the ACC and Big 12. It’s not all bad.

Of the seven programs that spend adequately on revenue sharing, three are going to the tournament this year (UConn, St. John’s, Nova).

UConn and Nova both have the money and a stable coaching situation for the foreseeable future.

St. John’s will not have Pitino forever, but if Repole continues to bankroll them, they will get a good replacement.

Providence simply needs a new coach. They spent $10 million on their roster this year (according to Field of 68). If they get a new coach and continue to spend, they will be fine.

Marquette and Creighton both spend a lot. McDemott’s successor needs to be good, and Shaka needs to embrace the portal.

I’m not sure what Georgetown’s problem is but they have money for a top coach and a really good roster.

Serious discussions need to be had about getting Seton Hall, Xavier, and Butler up to $9 million per year in revenue sharing.

Also, it’s probably time to boot DePaul from the league. They don’t bring the Chicago market, they don’t spend, and they’ve sucked forever.

 

[Kolumbo]

Let's ask nicely and hope the ACC takes us, says UConn fans every year since 2003. Let us know how it turns out.

You don't want networks going down the list of ACC schools, because if there is a meaningful raid of the ACC, the likely scenario is that whatever is left would be a train wreck.

I think there is a high probability of a major upheaval with colleges and college sports in the next 5 years. It won't look anything like your "someone takes two schools" scenario though. The economic model of college sports is cooked, and colleges have enough of their own problems without subsidizing athletic programs that are losing fistfuls of cash as far as the eye can see. Boosters are cooling on NIL given the low ROI and players often seemingly mailing it in, and there are about a dozen places the entire system can break.

Anyone that repeats any version of "football drives the bus" loses all their credibility immediately because it shows they can't tell the difference between revenues and profits, and should probably focus on balancing their checkbook rather than telling the rest of us how they think expansion works.

So forgive me if I don't go along with the "Hope as a Plan" scenario of waiting quietly for two, and only two, schools to leave the ACC and that league to invite UConn and pay us something approximating full freight to do so. None of you guys have been right once.

What do you expect this likely upheaval to look like? If football splits off, then I suppose that solves a lot of problems and the entire basketball fan base would probably be much happier going back to regional rivalries. If the P2 split off, then everyone else is at the cheap kiddy table which makes finding a football conference easier for UConn. But it seems highly unlikely UConn and the Big East would continue forward with the status quo in a major upheaval scenario. UConn would have options.