Who succeeds Pat?

[Tonyc]

My mom and dad suffered from Pats disease. The doctors told us it would last 7 years and it did. When mom and dad first were diagnosed the disease it took over within a year. Mom was 69 and dad was 75. Sometimes it takes a little longer. Hearing about Pat and remembering what I went through with my parents scares me.

I agree Holly and Micki would be short term replacements. Im sure over the next couple of years Holly and Micki will be depended upon to step up and perhaps step into Pats shoes as the diease progresses. They have been very good and loyal asst coaches to Pat. As far as a female coach at TN, I can see that. My thoughts on Van and Jeff were two coaches who have established themselves as great recruiters and builders of programs. If Im looking for a replacement I want someone who can attract top players to the program. I would also be looking for a coach who could give me 10+ years. Why? Because it takes time to adjust, and to build. Another quesiton would be would TNs asst coaches stay if someone outside the TN program were given the job. If Im TN I looking for a top head coach. I m looking for someone who can take the program to the top. Name recognition, winning record, top recruiter, a builder, an established coach and someone who will be accepted and respected by the TN coaches and fans. If Im the decision maker it wouldnt matter to me if the coach was a male or female. What would matter is that they exhibit the attributes and skills to take TN to the top of WCBB.

 

[Vowelguy]

I question whether it was understood until this summer but it is quite possible even probable that Pat understood something was going on. There is most often an extended lag between the onset of symptoms and diagnosis. That lag is often measured in years not months. If so, Micki's in depth understanding of all aspects of the LV's system would be invaluable.

As I said, you have NO evidence that this was known about prior to this summer.

 

[Icebear]

As I said, you have NO evidence that this was known about prior to this summer.

Only my first hand experience of the disease with my father-in-law and having run a support group for dementia families for three years and serving on a committee for the Central PA Alzheimers and other Related Dementia. The support group had regular speakers including lawyers, neurologists, nurses, past caregivers who shared their experiences and many videos. Doing the committee work gave me a pretty solid understanding the normal process of the disease since we had two neurologists on the committee one of whom worked exclusively with Alheimers patients and families. So my suppositions are not just spitting in the wind but based on what would be the norm. Certainly things may occur faster or slower but the mean time between onset and diagnosis is about 30-36 months. It used to be closer to 4 years. That means Pat's onset would normally have begun in about 2008. Pursuit of a diagnosis takes time, especially, in the life of someone as busy as a college coach.

 

[SallyH]

What a horrible choice facing TN. On one hand Pat built the program and is the program and the administration should extend to her any and every consideration as to how long she is able to coach. On the other hand, Pat will leave and it might be advantageous to make the change sooner rather than later in order to dispel all the confusion over her succession. On the third hand, committed recruits want to play for Pat for at least a couple of years, and on the fourth hand (I'm a mutant) future recruits want to know for whom they will be playing. A most unfortunate situation.

 

[jdubct]

How about Kara Lawson?

 

[EricSD]

How about Kara Lawson?

i think she's having too much fun as a commentator. no coaching experience for her at all at this point either... i might have to rethink my dislike for all things tennessee if she were to take over tho!

 

[Vowelguy]

How about Kara Lawson?

Absolutely not.
Why would they hire someone with no coaching and recruiting experience?
Not a chance in a million.

 

[Vowelguy]

Only my first hand experience of the disease with my father-in-law and having run a support group for dementia families for three years and serving on a committee for the Central PA Alzheimers and other Related Dementia. The support group had regular speakers including lawyers, neurologists, nurses, past caregivers who shared their experiences and many videos. Doing the committee work gave me a pretty solid understanding the normal process of the disease since we had two neurologists on the committee one of whom worked exclusively with Alheimers patients and families. So my suppositions are not just spitting in the wind but based on what would be the norm. Certainly things may occur faster or slower but the mean time between onset and diagnosis is about 30-36 months. It used to be closer to 4 years. That means Pat's onset would normally have begun in about 2008. Pursuit of a diagnosis takes time, especially, in the life of someone as busy as a college coach.

Sorry, but your personal experience doesn't carry too much weight with me ever since you used it to claim you could diagnose a player -whom you'd never met- with depression just by watching her demeanor during the few shots of the bench seen on TV.

You may well be correct about the dx time for PHS, but remember she also has access to the best healthcare money can buy. She is not a typical patient.

 

[Icebear]

What a horrible choice facing TN. On one hand Pat built the program and is the program and the administration should extend to her any and every consideration as to how long she is able to coach. On the other hand, Pat will leave and it might be advantageous to make the change sooner rather than later in order to dispel all the confusion over her succession. On the third hand, committed recruits want to play for Pat for at least a couple of years, and on the fourth hand (I'm a mutant) future recruits want to know for whom they will be playing. A most unfortunate situation.

That truly is the horrible choice indeed.

 

[Icebear]

You may well be correct about the dx time for PHS, but remember she also has access to the best healthcare money can buy. She is not a typical patient.

Yes, she does and that will be a tremendous help.

Btw, I was right about that player. It was confirmed afterwards.

 

[doggydaddy]

Sorry, but your personal experience doesn't carry too much weight with me ever since you used it to claim you could diagnose a player -whom you'd never met- with depression just by watching her demeanor during the few shots of the bench seen on TV.

You may well be correct about the dx time for PHS, but remember she also has access to the best healthcare money can buy. She is not a typical patient.

 

[doggydaddy]

Sure she makes plenty of money, but some medical treatments can be more expensive than even she can handle.

 

[OSouthBranch]

Caldwell would lose credibility if she left LSU after one year. She is better off waiting to see if PS can make it another year or two or if a replacement for PS doesnt do well.
Old rule....you never want to succeed "The Legend", you want to be the one after.

Or maybe the 2d or 3d one after. It seemed like it took 20 years after Coach Wooden retired for the door to stop revolving. I can envision something like that developing at ut. After PHS relinquishes the reins, I expect the ut fan base to be active and fractured which, is not a good base to build on.

 

[OSouthBranch]

There are two roads for Tenn. The first is to continue down the path of the last 40 years. It keeps the Summitt face on the program and is the likely path the UT admin. will choose. It means that a Summitt disciple will be the next head coach and the staff will remain the same with few changes. The downside here is that whoever becomes the coach will have a HUGE shadow over their head, will never get full credit for any success and will get full blame for anything else despite not choosing his/her own staff. The other path, the unlikely path, has the school bringing in an outsider with a proven track record. That would mean bringing his/her own people to Tenn and saying goodbye to many of Pat's assistants. Tenn is still the No. 1 job in wcbb and a Walsh or Mulky would have a hard time refusing but they would both want to choose their own staff. This path will not happen in my opinion because there is too much Pat Summitt in the marketing of the LV's. Much like UConn and Geno, the LV's are a cult of personality and it will be impossible to change that quickly.

"It means that a Summitt disciple will be the next head coach and the staff will remain the same with few changes."

The heir will, undoubtedly be a ut insider. I know ut is different from other programs in many ways, (for example, they have a "Women's Athletic Department." I believe the great majority of Div. 1 colleges simply have an "Athletic Department"); nevertheless, I expect that, like most schools facing the replacement of an iconic coach, those assisstants who do not get selected to be the next supreme leader at ut will drift away from the mother progam rather rapidly and some of them will leave immediately after the new leader is named, if not before.

Actually, I would not be surprised if one or two of them left at the end of next season and maybe against their own wishes. We shall see.

 

[OSouthBranch]

I highly doubt any of those names except possibly Walz. None of them are liked by the fan base. And I'm skeptical that they'd go with a male, but if they did then KY coach (and ex-TN asst) Mitchell would seem a more likely candidate.

I'd think the top of the list would be Warlick, DeMoss, Harper, Caldwell.

I agree with you across the board. The only male I can imagine would be Mitchell, but I can't see any male getting that job, especially a college sophomore. (Who's idea was that?)

I cannot see Sherry Cole or Muffet McGraw having any interest in that position, either. Both of them HAVE their dream job, imo.

I expect the 1st replacement to be from the ut family of coaches and players and, if not, then from the SEC. If none of them, then the ACC or possibly the southwest, but never a Yankee whether from the North or the far West.

 

[FairView]

I know the topic of this thread is natural considering the terrible news about Pat S., but somehow it is still so new that it makes me uncomfortable.

 

[EricSD]

I know the topic of this thread is natural considering the terrible news about Pat S., but somehow it is still so new that it makes me uncomfortable.

i thought about that too, but the reality is that it's being discussed on other boards and "not" discussing it doesn't make the issue disappear...

it seems to me as long as we are respectful, which we are, there's no problem with it. realistically no coach can make an admission like that without a plethora of speculation springing from the fan base...

 

[semper]

As long as we have decided to speculate and make predictions, we may as well look long. I think that Pat will hang in for two-three years, if only to continue to encourage and give her famous face to the program. Her assistants will prop her up and do the heavy lifting. Recruitment will sag and so will the program; that can't be helped. Of course, God bless her! Whenever she leaves, and maybe before, depending, they will hire a transition person, someone like Van, for a few years to let things stabilize. They will be looking and learning and thinking. In about 5 years, they will hire, depending on how all this progresses, and then that person will have the work of rebuilding what will be a top 15 team into the powerhouse of old.

I don't think Muffitt would ever go there. She drinks the green cool-aid. They will not hire anyone with a UConn connection. I think that Sherry would be the best choice for them, over the long haul, and they should really look at her.

Also, I don't think of UT as the premier WCC program in the USA. They once were, but now they have serious rivals.

 

[MilfordHusky]

How about Kara Lawson?

I thought she was in line for a position at UConn.

 

[EricSD]

Also, I don't think of UT as the premier WCC program in the USA. They once were, but now they have serious rivals.

what is "WCC"? i know WCB but not WCC... Women's College Canoodling?

as for the rest of what you said, it's interesting because there have been several treads about what would happen to both Tennessee and UCONN if/when Pat/Geno finally decided to hang it up. i tried pointing out that i thought Tennessee was like UCLA when they had Wooden, without the terrific campus, great location, or quality education. where has UCLA been since Wooden left? nowhere fast.

they have 11 NCAA championships, 10 under Wooden, and one in 1995 under Harrick. other than that, a complete goose egg. so people can talk about Tennessee having a super rich history, which it does, but once Pat goes, so does the main draw. Tennessee is an average academic school (not even in the top 100), average as far as college towns goes, and not a destination school unless you are looking for a decent football school, or a terrific WCBB school. Football won 6 NC's, but none since 1998, and the last one before that was in 1967. sure they usually have a good football team, but there are 16 teams with more NC's than tennessee football.

my point is WCBB at tennessee IS Pat Summitt. Just like WCBB at UCONN IS Geno Auriemma. Tennessee will be LUCKY to win one NC in WCBB after Pat leaves just like UCONN will be lucky to win one after Geno leaves. i know we don't want to hear it and we don't want to believe it, but history supports my statement. NC teams are about the head coach and who they recruit. Duke was nothing before Coach K. Indiana was little before and nothing after Knight. MCBB at UCONN was nothing before JC. UCLA MCBB was nothing before and after Wooden.

Kentucky and UNC might be the two exceptions to that as Rupp won 4, and Tubby, Pitino, and Hall each won one as HC. UNC might be the other exception as Guthridge has 1, Smith has 2 and Williams has 2. and i hate Calimari but he may well win another NC at Kentucky before NCAA violations catch up with him and he skedaddles...

Bottom line, IMHO Tennessee fans are delusional if they think anyone exists who can replace Pat, and even more in denial if they think the next generation will even come close to the success Pat had. this is why they (and we) should enjoy our legendary coaches while we can...

 

[Vowelguy]

eric, I agree up to a point.

It is difficult to replace legendary coaches, but as your KY & NC examples show, it can be done.

Secondly, one difference with men's basketball is still the limited number of women's programs that are serious contenders. No doubt that number has grown substantially in the past decade, but it is still dwarfed by the men's side. Just having a university that strongly supports WCBB - which TN surely has - puts them ahead of many others.

 

[EricSD]

eric, I agree up to a point.

It is difficult to replace legendary coaches, but as your KY & NC examples show, it can be done.

Secondly, one difference with men's basketball is still the limited number of women's programs that are serious contenders. No doubt that number has grown substantially in the past decade, but it is still dwarfed by the men's side. Just having a university that strongly supports WCBB - which TN surely has - puts them ahead of many others.

don't disagree. but in the cases of Kentucky, and UNC, the coaches who took over either had already won NC's elsewhere, or had a tremendous amount of success at previous places (ie. final 4's, etc). i still maintain that Kentucky and UNC are destination, dream-job schools for any MCBB head coach. on the women's side, schools like ND, Stanford, and Duke are probably destination schools. look at the recruiting success McCallie has had at Duke while Gail has pretty much flopped at Texas. and Texas/Austin is a hell of a better destination school than tennessee...

i'm not saying it can't be done. i'm just saying Tennessee fans are deluded if they think their future looks rosy because they are Tennessee...

 

[stwainfan]

what is "WCC"? i know WCB but not WCC... Women's College Canoodling?

as for the rest of what you said, it's interesting because there have been several treads about what would happen to both Tennessee and UCONN if/when Pat/Geno finally decided to hang it up. i tried pointing out that i thought Tennessee was like UCLA when they had Wooden, without the terrific campus, great location, or quality education. where has UCLA been since Wooden left? nowhere fast.

they have 11 NCAA championships, 10 under Wooden, and one in 1995 under Harrick. other than that, a complete goose egg. so people can talk about Tennessee having a super rich history, which it does, but once Pat goes, so does the main draw. Tennessee is an average academic school (not even in the top 100), average as far as college towns goes, and not a destination school unless you are looking for a decent football school, or a terrific WCBB school. Football won 6 NC's, but none since 1998, and the last one before that was in 1967. sure they usually have a good football team, but there are 16 teams with more NC's than tennessee football.

my point is WCBB at tennessee IS Pat Summitt. Just like WCBB at UCONN IS Geno Auriemma. Tennessee will be LUCKY to win one NC in WCBB after Pat leaves just like UCONN will be lucky to win one after Geno leaves. i know we don't want to hear it and we don't want to believe it, but history supports my statement. NC teams are about the head coach and who they recruit. Duke was nothing before Coach K. Indiana was little before and nothing after Knight. MCBB at UCONN was nothing before JC. UCLA MCBB was nothing before and after Wooden.

Kentucky and UNC might be the two exceptions to that as Rupp won 4, and Tubby, Pitino, and Hall each won one as HC. UNC might be the other exception as Guthridge has 1, Smith has 2 and Williams has 2. and i hate Calimari but he may well win another NC at Kentucky before NCAA violations catch up with him and he skedaddles...

Bottom line, IMHO Tennessee fans are delusional if they think anyone exists who can replace Pat, and even more in denial if they think the next generation will even come close to the success Pat had. this is why they (and we) should enjoy our legendary coaches while we can...

Eric I agree that there is no one who can replace Pat Summitt. A true legend like her can't be replaced.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Very good points, but -​

Mentioning Van seems pointless. Do we all realize how old he is? And he never had super great success at the college level - although he would argue that was because he had to play Tennessee all the time.​

 

[Icebear]

I cannot imagine TN hiring any man as a head coach in place of Pat. I think that simply would be unacceptable to too many involved.

 

[jdubct]

The question remains how long does she want to continue to coach. I would imagine, like other coaching giants (Joe Paterno, for example), she will want to continue to coach as long as she thinks she can do a good job. Could be 1 year, could be 3 years, could be 5 years. Who knows. At the time when she wants to step down, I would imagine that she would be replaced by a current or ex-Tennessee coach.

 

[Vowelguy]

The question remains how long does she want to continue to coach. I would imagine, like other coaching giants (Joe Paterno, for example), she will want to continue to coach as long as she thinks she can do a good job. Could be 1 year, could be 3 years, could be 5 years. Who knows. At the time when she wants to step down, I would imagine that she would be replaced by a current or ex-Tennessee coach.

She said that she'd like to coach for 3 more years. While that's not carved in stone, I took that as some indication of how she thought the disease would progress. And to some extent as an upper bound on that.

I imagine that this season (or next) she will transition to being more of a figure-head, with DeMoss or Warlick taking over day-to-day operations, setting up the next coach.

 

[ScarlettB]

I think UT might want to consider taking the route Florida State took when choosing a replacement for Bobby Bowden. They should start immediately to either look for their next head coach and hire them as associate head coach under Pat starting with the 2012-2013 season, or if they are going to promote one of their assistants, make it known as soon as possible. This will stabilize the program and should help with recruiting. They should be able to avoid the unpleasantness of forcing Pat to retire before she is ready (as with Bobby) as Pat will retire due to her illness, not because some of the boosters and fans think that the legend is too old to coach and that the game has passed them by.

 

[Icebear]

She said that she'd like to coach for 3 more years. While that's not carved in stone, I took that as some indication of how she thought the disease would progress. And to some extent as an upper bound on that.

I imagine that this season (or next) she will transition to being more of a figure-head, with DeMoss or Warlick taking over day-to-day operations, setting up the next coach.

This is very close to what I think will happen.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Some men's coaches should be considered. Off the top of my head, I would suggest Chuck Martin at Marist, and Steve Alford at UNM.
I don't think Muffet Mcgraw will be offered the job. If she is offered the job, there is a very good chance, she will take it.

Chuck Martin??? He has done a terrible job at Marist and will almost certainly be fired at the end of the year.