Who actually brings value | Page 7 | The Boneyard

Who actually brings value

Which part of NESN is related to the original post?
Both are networks. Both are based in New England. Both could be out to " screw Uconn ". ( or, who knows, maybe not both, just one of 'em ). The " Red Sox " are irrelevent to this topic however, imo.. although I could talk Red Sox, MLB, on here 24-7 if so warranted, and if the interest for it was present here on this forum. )
 
I think Frank gets that. It's the BC and Wake fans that are arguing that their schools value is on par with UConn's in a vacuum that is silly.
But who argues that? No one on this thread surely.

At any rate, you all got it right that UConn is subsidizing other programs, you just are focusing on the wrong ones. Just as it would be weird to hear a Carolina fan lament they are subsidizing Vanderbilt given the disparity in network exposure when Wake is the one tied contractually to them. Wake is benefitting from Carolina. Vandy is benefitting from Alabama, that's their problem. You all have Tulsa you are propping up. If you want to get mad, get mad at them or the AAC or someone UConn is actually contracted with. UConn and Wake's relationship is basically non-existent.
 
Dude, BC Sucks. See you on the field a month from now.

Are you going ? I got our tickets, and my family friends from Connecticut whose tickets I bought will be sitting right beside me. I do agree with you that BC football currently really does " suck ". Its the worst BC football team since the winless 70's season, imo. BC was blown out.. shut out at home by Umass in that winless football season, incidentally. I was at that game too ( 3 years later, I saw a revived BC beat defending National Champion Texas at Alumni, so following one's favorite team can be a roller coaster ride over the decades... haha!). Uconn has no more excuses to being winless in 13 previous head to head football matches with BC, as you are correct, BC football really does " suck " at the moment, and Uconn really should, and needs to beat BC next month. You guys have about run out of excuses now for never beating BC in football. I think.. actually know... my Uconn family friends acknowledge this now too as well. So yes, its do or die, now !
 
Last edited:
I'd agree with you there at least with respect to UConn, which this seems to point that UConn's basketball programs (both men's and women's) are subsidizing the rest of the AAC contract. UConn's women's basketball has a fairly high TV value while the rest of the AAC women's basketball probably has literally zero TV value, so the entire value of UConn's program is getting redistributed to everyone else in the AAC.

You cant get there from here with the math though. If the women are on 18 times on ESPN, and the 12 SNY games are worth $1.2m to ESPN (at a minimum, since that is the contract from 6 years ago), what are the 18 ESPN games worth? I don't think I'm crazy in saying the women are a $5m value. Say the men are worth at least as much as the women (since they get better ratings). Add football. Then look at Houston football, all the others. It simply can't be that this conference is worth $1.8m for 11 teams. 19.8m!! A year. That's what ESPN pays. I almost got there with UConn alone.
 
Both are networks. Both are based in New England. Both could be out to " screw Uconn ". ( or, who knows, maybe not both, just one of 'em ). The " Red Sox " are irrelevent to this topic however, imo.. although I could talk Red Sox, MLB, on here 24-7 if so warranted, and if the interest for it was present here on this forum. )

Yes, but one of the two networks is a contract partner of UConn that is paying us for all sports content and is using the rock bottom price they paid for content to squeeze as much value out of it as possible, given that it is exceedingly likely they get 2-3 times the amount of money they pay, if not more, in advertising revenue for games that feature UConn.

The other is NESN.
 
.-.
@Yawkey Way Yup, I will be there +11 other UConn fans. Should be an interesting event for sure.


I an hoping that BC will prove to me that on the current football " suckiness ", meter, we will " suck " less than Uconn football sucks in football this seaaon. Maybe I have my hopes up too much though, as the football bar under Addazio at the moment is lower than a limbo bar. Daz will be selling relinquished time shares by this time next season, or coaching the NFL Jets offense or head Coaching Central Connecticut State Univ ( same thing, granted, I know)
 
Players are interviwed as well on all these shows across the country,.. that just about every major football program in the country has broadcasted within their school's immediate environs. If you believe they are all boring, that may be the case.. who knows, but most all major college football programs have weekly football programs broadcast in the Fall in their immediate vicinity of their school's stadium. Even little ol BC football has one broadcasted too. The shows are chock full of feel good propaganda.. there are no hostile press shown. Such programming allows the Coach to control the entire segments that tend to be 100% positive about the program. You can't get enough of that, imo, even if the coaches on occasion are " boring ". School's still like these PR prgramming too, and see its " value " to them... or lets be real, they all wouldn't continue to do them.

Whatever dude. They are the symptom and not the cure. Saying that it will make is bigtimd is kind cargo cultish. And you probably don't know what that is.
 
Yes, but one of the two networks is a contract partner of UConn that is paying us for all sports content and is using the rock bottom price they paid for content to squeeze as much value out of it as possible, given that it is exceedingly likely they get 2-3 times the amount of money they pay, if not more, in advertising revenue for games that feature UConn.

.

If the data shows that ESPN is getting " 2-3 times the amount of money in returns that they pay in advertising costs for games featuring Uconn football " then Uconn is probably being screwed over, as the OP is claiming. Uconn officials need to renegotiate such a future relationship with ESPN then... as Uconn football can not long sustain such intentional network revenue stream " screwing overs ", once the exit fees are gone to the school. I don't pretend to know what the answer is here, but picking a fight with one of the biggest Corporations in Connecticut.. one that will have the TVmicrophones to give their side of the story to the public in any battle between Uconn and ESPN... may still be the best course of action for Uconn. Uconn has lots of value and influence ( we're told ) so Uconn should be able to marshal legal and public taxpayor outcries among its residents if it feels its football program is being harmed by ESPN intentionally, and Uconn football is not getting the revenues it believes its entitled too from the telecast of its football games.
 
Last edited:
It simply can't be that this conference is worth $1.8m for 11 teams. 19.8m!! A year. That's what ESPN pays. I almost got there with UConn alone.

Except that is exactly what the conference as a whole is worth since no network was willing to bid more than that to show their games. It's seems to me that UConn needed the AAC for football, and was willing to accept total membership in the conference as the price.

In any case I understand your angst.
 
Except that is exactly what the conference as a whole is worth since no network was willing to bid more than that to show their games. It's seems to me that UConn needed the AAC for football, and was willing to accept total membership in the conference as the price.

In any case I understand your angst.

I understand Uconn's angst. They had limited choices, once the P5 passed on them. What were they supposed to do ? The AAC .. especially in football..., was better than all the other non P5 conferences, so membership was the only viable alternative. It was hoped it would become a temporary thing for the football program, but as it turns out, that has proven not to be the case. Things can change however by 2023. Uconn can now future help its cause by winning the AAC in football, or at least becoming a routine, annual, contender for the AAC football title under Diaco in the coming years, between now and 2023.
 
No, no no. A men's basketball game aired on Saturday afternoon on CBS is worth far more than 15 women's basketball games shown on weeknights on ESPN3 (just a guess, but you get the idea).

You assume a "cliche" Women's game.

That simply is not what UConn WBB had been. It's not ESPN3 ... It's prime time. Prime network. Holidays as the premier match. I'm sorry that you are ignorant & some kind of WBB hating gnome ... but the Women's program has more demand than probably 25 Power 5 Football programs easy.
 
.-.
This is it ... Some of you outlining Power 5 fans thinks "Conferences" are going to be the Principal contracting parties forever.

We don't even know ESPN is going to survive cord cutting & executing a 20 year ACC deal is droid stupid.

There's a path forward that gives you Value on distribution channels not currently existing. And there doesn't have to be "Conference" as the facility to be on the contract.
 
As I've found living in MA for the past 20 years, when people say New England, they basically mean Boston (within 495) and portions of southern Maine and NH.

The best example was on NECN the day the Pats announced the move to Hartford. New England Cable News was calling Hartford "they".
 
Nobody has said this on here at all. The thread topic is about Uconn being screwed by ESPN according to the OP, and that NESN has ( apparently) no interest to Uconn football and its fans to see a Diaco weekly TV show on NESN in the fall, ... or, SNY has TV rights that allegedly might preclude Diaco from getting his Uconn football program on NESN for NESN's primarily New England based audience. (Wake/BC. other schools " values " thus seem irrelevent to the OP's Uconn TV networks topic, imo )

I would say my assumptions surrounding the SNY / NESN dilemma are pretty sound. SNY paid UCONN for programming 5 or so years ago, as leverag to get on basic in CT. If that same programming were also available on NESN ( which was already on basic in CT thanks to sox games ) then SNY would have no carrot to waive at the cable companies. I think your interpretation is not reasonable.
 
Oh, I understand your argument. I don't necessarily agree that your data point (the number of ESPN appearances by UConn) supports your conclusion (that this means UConn is subsidizing schools within the P5 that aren't as valuable). UConn may very well be more valuable than Wake Forest, but I don't think that the number of ESPN appearances compared between different conferences that have different contracts supports that contention in and of itself. The only way that this would be possible is if ESPN actually pooled all of the basketball and football inventory from all conferences together and could freely pick and choose games on an a la carte basis despite paying different amounts to those conferences. If THAT were happening, then sure, you could argue that the UConns of the world are subsidizing members of the P5.

However, that's simply not how it works - ESPN is mandated to show x number of AAC games per week, and y number of ACC games per week, and z number of Big Ten games per week, et. al. So, the number of appearances by UConn certainly shows its relative value (at least for basketball) compared to the rest of the AAC. Since ESPN is mandated to show a certain number of AAC games per week, it's fair to say that ESPN finds the UConn games to be the most valuable out of its pool of AAC games. ESPN *has* to show those AAC basketball games, so it's going to ride UConn like it's Zorro compared to its other options. In contrast, I'm sure there were a lot better matchups that UConn had in the old Big East that were relegated to ESPN Regional (which would certainly make it to ESPN now if they were under the AAC contract) because ESPN had a lot better pool of games to pick and choose from in that old league. On the football side, Houston is likely going to end up with more ESPN and ABC appearances than Miami this season, yet that's because pretty much every Houston game is going to clearly be the #1 choice each week to fulfill ESPN's contractual obligations with the AAC than any notion that Houston is somehow more valuable than Miami (where ESPN is going to give priority to ACC games involving those still in the national title race like Clemson). You see this with ESPN's West Coast Conference contract, too, where ESPN fulfills its contract with that league by showing Gonzaga as much as possible (with maybe BYU thrown in every once in awhile). Same thing with ESPN's Mountain West contract obligations where it takes Boise State every chance that it gets.

You (and many others here) are also coming at this from the assumption that the AAC must be profitable for ESPN simply because it isn't paying the AAC that much. No one can know that for certain without looking at ESPN's books, but at the same time, no one should assume that the contract is profitable based on its low cost. Remember that ad revenue rates rise in a logarithmic (as opposed to linear) manner: a 5.0 rating football product doesn't just generate twice as much revenue as a 2.5 rating football product - instead, you can charge 3, 4 or 5 times as much for the 5.0 game because there's a premium associated for the larger audience (as it's becoming significantly harder to find any audiences on TV of that size). (Now, the AAC may certainly turn out to be profitable this year, but it would be because of Houston's ratings for football that have delivered at a P5 level this year.) With the exception of a handful of basketball games per year like Duke-UNC or when there's some combo of Duke/UNC/Kentucky/Kansas playing each other, the ratings for regular season college basketball simply don't approach anywhere near college football, and that's why basketball is paid accordingly.

ESPN and Fox and CBS and NBC aren't dumb: they're not paying literally hundreds of millions of dollars for P5 college football because they think they're going to lose money on those games. The P5 is getting paid because their 1 or 2 top games per week can consistently deliver a rating that is larger than any other regular season sporting event outside of the NFL... and people need to understand that those types of ratings numbers are VERY hard to find in today's fragmented TV environment. They're getting an extraordinary ad premium for those games (just as they're getting the same type of premium for NFL games and NBA playoff games), which is why they're paying a premium for those games in the first place. The rest of the games outside of those 1 or 2 top games are more or less filler (with some leagues like the SEC and Big Ten having greater depth than others) along with basketball. As long as those 1 or 2 top P5 games deliver each week, ESPN is happy and *that* is what makes them money as opposed to the filler content.

To put it into the movie context, the top P5 college football games are the equivalent of a Star Wars or Marvel movie: Disney is going to pay a massive budget for those types of movies because those are really the only movies that give it even a *chance* at massive profits. Those blockbusters might not make money every single time, but when one of them does exceed expectations (like The Force Awakens or the first Avengers movie), then it single-handedly makes the entire movie division massively profitable worldwide for multiple years. College basketball, on the other hand, is the equivalent of the low budget horror movies: low financial risk but also a low ceiling, so the amount of profit is low (albeit the profit *margin* can be high with a once-in-a-blue-moon breakout hit like Paranormal Activity).

Note what largely has disappeared from the movie landscape: mid-budget films (those in the $50 million to $100 million range). Movie people will pay big money for the biggest brand names and they'll sprinkle in some low budget filler films, but they do NOT want to pay for that middle tier. It's basically an all-or-nothing high-or-low budget strategy in Hollywood. Well, the same people that run Hollywood happen to be the same people that sign TV sports contracts. Disney/ESPN, Fox and Comcast/NBC/Universal are applying the EXACT same budget strategy to sports (both college and pro) and basically everything else on television. A few marquee sports properties get a ton of money and the other sports properties get low budget money (with no "middle class" in between). That's yet another reason why the gap between the P5 and G5 is so massive.
Your assumption that any P5 game is worth more than any G5 game is a pretty big leap. Don't you think game ratings provides a better data point?
 
The best example was on NECN the day the Pats announced the move to Hartford. New England Cable News was calling Hartford "they".
I distinctly recall the NECN broadcast from Hartford with all the Connecticut pols, Bob Kraft too. The only one not smiling in that televised announcement show there in Hartford, was Bob Kraft. He wasn't smiling. I noticed that right off, and thought it rather odd. He looked very glum that day on TV.. like someone shot his dog. I had a feeling right then and there that Kraft was more than likely not going to ultimately put his team in Hartford. The Pols in the Mass State Legislature thought so too. They gambled in a high risk situation. But Bob Kraft ultimately blinked. He changed his mind, and the Pats were back in Foxboro by week's end. Kraft then spent a lot of money.. his own, plus investors he knew, to build a state of the art, mostly privately funded football stadium there in Foxboro. I wished Bob Kraft built a domed stadium in Boston ( was in the early plans ), but the newly built stadium there in Foxboro is a good alternative to that, imo.
 
Last edited:
You assume a "cliche" Women's game.

That simply is not what UConn WBB had been. It's not ESPN3 ... It's prime time. Prime network. Holidays as the premier match. I'm sorry that you are ignorant & some kind of WBB hating gnome ... but the Women's program has more demand than probably 25 Power 5 Football programs easy.
You have any ratings to back that up? I find your assertion hard to believe without numbers and if your assertion is correct then Uconn should become an independent just for WBB.
 
.-.
Your assumption that any P5 game is worth more than any G5 game is a pretty big leap. Don't you think game ratings provides a better data point?

I don't assume that "any" P5 game is worth than any G5 game. However, I do think there's quite a bit of evidence that the top 1 or 2 games from each P5 conference per week consistently get bigger ratings than what the G5 can offer. Those top 1 or 2 games are where the outsized ratings come from (and in turn, what the outsized payouts are based upon).
 
I would say my assumptions surrounding the SNY / NESN dilemma are pretty sound. SNY paid UCONN for programming 5 or so years ago, as leverag to get on basic in CT. If that same programming were also available on NESN ( which was already on basic in CT thanks to sox games ) then SNY would have no carrot to waive at the cable companies. I think your interpretation is not reasonable.
Maybe. ND has locally based " ND football weekly " shows all around the country. Some are the same format... distributed " as is ", to many, but several are produced locally. That said, I do realize that ND's leverage is totally unlike Uconn's leverage ( as well as BC, and 90% of other schools ) and there is the possibility that SNY contract precludes Uconn having a weekly football program for themselves with NESN. I do think however the notion that Uconn is so unleveraged with the local channels that SNY will prohibit them from broadcasting a weekly show for their football program with NESN is speculative at best. Its NOT unreasonable to assume that nobody really knows right now why Uconn does not have a weekly football program on NESN, something they do have, and did have for their basketball programming each week during the seaason on NESN, and that presumably SNY had no issues with, as a result of such Uconn basketball shows broadcasting with NESN.
 
the Women's program has more demand than probably 25 Power 5 Football programs easy.[/QUOTE]

Doubt it. Nothing against Uconn's fine basketball program, but the comment that Women's Basketball, even Uconn's Women basketball, has " more demand " nationally than " 25 P5 football programs " is rather silly. Women's College Basketball has a comparatively small, niche audience, and of mostly regional interest. I'm in Florida, and the Women's College Basketball game TV ratings in the large state of Florida, even when Uconn is on, are rather dismal... they are abysmal numbers as a matter of fact. But I can only speak for the level of sports fans interest in Women's College Basketball games watching on TV in the state of Florida. Perhaps its much better in most other national regions, who knows, but I sort of doubt it.
 
Last edited:
If the data shows that ESPN is getting " 2-3 times the amount of money in returns that they pay in advertising costs for games featuring Uconn football " then Uconn is probably being screwed over, as the OP is claiming. Uconn officials need to renegotiate such a future relationship with ESPN then... as Uconn football can not long sustain such intentional network revenue stream " screwing overs ", once the exit fees are gone to the school. I don't pretend to know what the answer is here, but picking a fight with one of the biggest Corporations in Connecticut.. one that will have the TVmicrophones to give their side of the story to the public in any battle between Uconn and ESPN... may still be the best course of action for Uconn. Uconn has lots of value and influence ( we're told ) so Uconn should be able to marshal legal and public taxpayor outcries among its residents if it feels its football program is being harmed by ESPN intentionally, and Uconn football is not getting the revenues it believes its entitled too from the telecast of its football games.

It's not just football that's getting screwed. It's basketball, men's and women's.

The math is pretty simple: UConns yearly share of the AAC contact is 1.5M or so. If a UConn game (FB, MBB, WBB) is being broadcast twenty times per year, ESPN is giving us 75k per game (and top of that, ESPN is getting a payout every time CBS Sports picks up a game through their suc license agreement).

SNY, just a scant few years ago, was willing to pay us a similar amount JUST for the women's basketball games ESPN wouldn't broadcast. JUST the women's basketball games.
 
It's not

SNY, just a scant few years ago, was willing to pay us a similar amount JUST for the women's basketball games ESPN wouldn't broadcast. JUST the women's basketball games.

Why didn't Uconn sign on for that deal with SNY to have SNY broadcast all the Uconn Women's Basketball Games ? Just curious, as I don't see why Uconn could not negotiate such a plush deal for themselves. If Women's basketball is so attractive in the marketplace, then Uconn could simply adopt their own ND model and negotiate their own separate Uconn Women's Basketball contract with ( say ) SNY. ESPN be damned. ND did this. Texas did. So... whats stopping them ? Lots of football schools have a few of their football games picked up by the national networks, and then the locals ( SNY, NESN ) decide if its worth it to them and their advertisers to pick up the remaining games locally or not. If Uconn Women's Basketball was such a lucrative hot commodity, SNY would have all of their non national telecasted games on SNY, and each year too. So why isn't every non ESPN nationally televised Uconn Women's Basketball game on TV every year now with ( for example ) SNY ?
 
Last edited:
Why didn't Uconn sign on for that deal with SNY to have SNY broadcast all the Uconn Women's Basketball Games ? Just curious, as I don't see why Uconn could not negotiate such a plush deal for themselves. If Women's basketball is so attractive in the marketplace, then Uconn could simply adopt their own ND model and negotiate their own separate Uconn Women's Basketball contract with ( say ) SNY. ESPN be damned. ND did this. Texas did. So... whats stopping them ? Lots of football schools have a few of their football games picked up by the national networks, and then the locals ( SNY, NESN ) decide if its worth it to them and their advertisers to pick up the remaining games locally or not. If Uconn Women's Basketball was such a lucrative hot commodity, SNY would have all of their non national telecasted games on SNY, and each year too. So why isn't every Uconn Women's Basketball game on TV with ( say ) SNY ?
UConn did do that, but any such benefit was lost as soon as the AAC contract with ESPN was signed and UConn lost all of its rights and any money earned on side deals like the one struck with SNY. You should go back and read the first post of this thread for a little background and how we got to where we are.
 
.-.
Fishy 's analysis looks like a good exhibit in an antitrust lawsuit.

As this CR nightmare drags on, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the only solution just might be a lawsuit. I know it didn't work out too well for us last time, but there's no way that the P5 cartel's stranglehold on college sports is legal. In no other aspect of society would this type of monopoly be tolerated. If I started my own insurance company and The Hartford and Travelers got together and said sorry, but you can't sell your products in states where we do business, how long would it take for a judge to decide in my favor? I see no difference with the P5 cartel.
 
Fishy 's analysis looks like a good exhibit in an antitrust lawsuit.

As this CR nightmare drags on, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the only solution just might be a lawsuit. I know it didn't work out too well for us last time, but there's no way that the P5 cartel's stranglehold on college sports is legal. In no other aspect of society would this type of monopoly be tolerated. If I started my own insurance company and The Hartford and Travelers got together and said sorry, but you can't sell your products in states where we do business, how long would it take for a judge to decide in my favor? I see no difference with the P5 cartel.
 
But who argues that? No one on this thread surely.

At any rate, you all got it right that UConn is subsidizing other programs, you just are focusing on the wrong ones. Just as it would be weird to hear a Carolina fan lament they are subsidizing Vanderbilt given the disparity in network exposure when Wake is the one tied contractually to them. Wake is benefitting from Carolina. Vandy is benefitting from Alabama, that's their problem. You all have Tulsa you are propping up. If you want to get mad, get mad at them or the AAC or someone UConn is actually contracted with. UConn and Wake's relationship is basically non-existent.

Your math is a total failure. The money made by ESPN far exceeds the conference payout. This is the entire point of this thread. It's right in the OPs post.
 
Except that is exactly what the conference as a whole is worth since no network was willing to bid more than that to show their games. It's seems to me that UConn needed the AAC for football, and was willing to accept total membership in the conference as the price.

In any case I understand your angst.

That's not even the point. The point is that ESPN is ripping us off, and they are using the money to subsidize others.
 
UConn did do that, but any such benefit was lost as soon as the AAC contract with ESPN was signed and UConn lost all of its rights and any money earned on side deals like the one struck with SNY. .
Everything is negotiable. I'm sure you've heard this. If Uconn gave up a potentially lucrative Women's Basketball contract with SNY, as part of their initial agreement contract negotiation with AAC/ ESPN, then thats that, and it would appear then that there can be no more complaining about the " value of the Uconn's Women's Basketball program bring screwed over as well ". Uconn made that choice, and so its really only the football team thats being" screwed over", as Uconn did apparently freely acquiese to giving up their negotiating rights with SNY ( or NESN ) on behalf of their Women's Basketball program, it would appear in their AAC/ ESPN negotiations.
 
You have any ratings to back that up? I find your assertion hard to believe without numbers and if your assertion is correct then Uconn should become an independent just for WBB.

The women did a .7 and .8 rating multiple times last year. Against teams like South Carolina and Baylor, they pulled decent numbers. These are not world-beating numbers, though the finals are great (5 ratings in NYC). I don't think Pudge's assumption is off at all. You'll find a lot of P5 football games below that. As a matter of fact, this week's Primetime Saturday night at 8 pm game pulled a .5. UConn women beat that number multiple times last year.
 
.-.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,202
Messages
4,556,727
Members
10,442
Latest member
Virginiafan


Top Bottom