Who actually brings value

[billybud]

Can't be right. The thing that set off the B12 was the extra money coming to the ACC from an ESPN run network for them.

We do not know the specifics of the ACC media contract...

What has been reported:

......The ACC Network will increase the league's overall value. Swofford said the many agreements will put the ACC in "the upper echelon of Power 5 conferences" and secure the league's future over the next 20 years.

.....It’s impossible to say how much revenue the ACC Network might generate. That answer will come in time, yet Jordan said with confidence recently that if the network “performs even moderately, it’ll put the ACC in a situation where they’ll be very, very competitive financially” with the SEC and Big Ten.

.....“We don’t announce the numbers on the rights fees but the rights fees, obviously, go up and there’s a more significant jump during the years before we launch the linear network, the ACC Network, in ’19,” Swofford said Thursday. “And then we’re very confident in what the network will bring financially.”

......There are the obvious financial ramifications of adding a conference network. Though no one would discuss specifics, once launched in August 2019, the ACC’s network will likely add between $5 million and $8 million to each school’s budget (and for the next two years, in the run-up to launch, the ACC’s rights deal will increase). It will lift the ACC into third place in revenue among Power Five leagues, behind the Big Ten and SEC but ahead of the Big 12 andPac-12. It’s not necessarily a bonanza, but it’s not insignificant.

 

[epark88]

We basically we need to become the Texas or Oklahoma of the AAC.

Pffft.

What, becoming the UConn of College Basketball wasn't enough?...

 

[huskymedic]

Prime time is one or two games a year on the national networks. Weeknights is not prime time. As far as ignorant,

Curious - When is "prime time" in your world?

 

[JeepCSC]

Again, for our visitors, (and I don't know why this is so difficult), ESPN pays the conference $19.8m a year (1.8m x 11). UConn alone brings in close to that.

This is what we are talking about. UConn's profits are then redistributed elsewhere by ESPN in order to keep a hold on its in-house branded conference (ACC).

UConn's profits are being redistributed to the rest of the AAC. If your argument is that the AAC is subsidizing the ACC, I'd be interested in the argument. But that is different than UConn subsidizing Wake Forest. Because that last sentence is not any way to look at anything happening with contracts and conferences.

 

[JeepCSC]

Your math is a total failure. The money made by ESPN far exceeds the conference payout. This is the entire point of this thread. It's right in the OPs post.

If you are venturing away from UConn subsidizing Wake Forest to the AAC subsidizing the ACC (which I'm now getting the impression is where you now want to take this), that becomes a different conversation.

So obviously ESPN makes more money than the conference payout. They'd be a poor business model if they merely broke even. I guess you are saying they have a bigger profit margin on the AAC and they use that to funnel money to the ACC where their profit margin is smaller. Is that the gist? Because that's nowhere in the original post or any subsequent post I've seen (to be fair I've merely glossed the last few pages). I don't know the rate of return on AAC football brings them compared to ACC football, as I imagine that is where most of the profit is made. I can guesstimate given viewers who see games, but it would be crude and not really beneficial in the end since we don't actually have access to to ESPN's books. It's an interesting theory, perhaps compelling for UConn fans who are getting screwed by being so out of place in your conference. But it's still a much different argument than the original post which was almost exclusively about UConn subsidizing teams in other conferences, which is just bizarre on the face when it has actual conference mates it is actually subsidizing without having to twist the term subsidizing beyond all normal uses of the word.

 

[CL82]

I don't assume that "any" P5 game is worth than any G5 game. However, I do think there's quite a bit of evidence that the top 1 or 2 games from each P5 conference per week consistently get bigger ratings than what the G5 can offer. Those top 1 or 2 games are where the outsized ratings come from (and in turn, what the outsized payouts are based upon).

The point, Frank, is that we aren't talking "any" G5 team. We are talking about the University of Connecticut. We routinely outdraw P5 teams.

 

[CL82]

UConn's profits are being redistributed to the rest of the AAC. If your argument is that the AAC is subsidizing the ACC, I'd be interested in the argument. But that is different than UConn subsidizing Wake Forest. Because that last sentence is not any way to look at anything happening with contracts and conferences.

I think one can fairly make the argument that money not spent on the American is money that is available to be spent elsewhere. ESPN has with some regularity decided the winners and losers in CR, most recently by telling the B12 that no network money was available and then publicly announcing that were going to establish one for the ACC. That single decision devalued the B12 and likely started a chain of event that will result in it's demise.

 

[HoopsFan21]

UConn's profits are being redistributed to the rest of the AAC. If your argument is that the AAC is subsidizing the ACC, I'd be interested in the argument. But that is different than UConn subsidizing Wake Forest. Because that last sentence is not any way to look at anything happening with contracts and conferences.

The tax payers of the State of Connecticut are subsidizing the ACC. That's enough to annoy me, never mind the hit the University has taken as a result of ESPN's meddling in conference realignment to protect the high profit margin UConn content provides. This shell game of "your beef is not with ESPN, Wake Forest, or the ACC, it's with your own conference!" isn't fooling anyone. It's a zero sum game: the dollars taken out of UConn and the tax payers pockets are helping fund the ACC network and the Wake Forests of the P5 conferences. You guys can pretend that the ACC dollars are siloed, but we all know it doesn't work that way anymore than you and your spouse keeping your incomes and expenses separate.

 

[JeepCSC]

I never said your beef wasn't with ESPN. It was the AAC and ESPN that came up with your contract, and if you feel your contract is wrong it is with those two you have your problems. Wake just wouldn't hurt a fly, so I wish you wouldn't pick on them. If you must go after a bottom-feeder in a different conference, make it NC State. I still might not understand the logic except in the most convoluted of ways, but it's doubtful I'd interrupt your bashing.

 

[MattMang23]

And...you can truly blame Wake Forest.

It was their President who Chaired the Division I Board of Directors and led the charge for autonomy for the P5.

I never said your beef wasn't with ESPN. It was the AAC and ESPN that came up with your contract, and if you feel your contract is wrong it is with those two you have your problems. Wake just wouldn't hurt a fly, so I wish you wouldn't pick on them. If you must go after a bottom-feeder in a different conference, make it NC State. I still might not understand the logic except in the most convoluted of ways, but it's doubtful I'd interrupt your bashing.

Well, according to billybud, it appears Wake skipped hurting flies and jumped right to hurting about 65 Division 1 FBS athletic departments.

 

[auggie22]

I'm surprised this conversation is still a thing.

To keep FSU from bolting, ESPN had to further overpay Wake in order to satisfy the "valuable properties" in the ACC... to make their numbers and still fill the air with something watchable, they had to acquire other properties (AAC) more valuable than Wake and under pay them. UCONN is subsidizing the majority of the AAC. The AAC is subsidizing the ACC contract. Te valuable properties in the ACC are subsidizing Wake. Thus, UCONN is subsidizing Wake.

 

[TerryD]

I think one can fairly make the argument that money not spent on the American is money that is available to be spent elsewhere. ESPN has with some regularity decided the winners and losers in CR, most recently by telling the B12 that no network money was available and then publicly announcing that were going to establish one for the ACC. That single decision devalued the B12 and likely started a chain of event that will result in it's demise.

Agreed. I think that ESPN had to pick a horse, and picked the East Coast ACC versus the Plains States Big 12.

I think that it was as simple as that.

 

[upstater]

Agreed. I think that ESPN had to pick a horse, and picked the East Coast ACC versus the Plains States Big 12.

I think that it was as simple as that.

Yes, you get it. Many of us said this.

 

[upstater]

This came from the Mizzou 2010 article posted elsewhere:

"They were gone and then ESPN was like if that deal blows up, we’ve got to go back and rework all of our contracts and FOX has the Pac-12 contract and it was a, there’s a term for it, not sunken costs, it was a loss leader. This idea like we’re gonna lose money on this Longhorn thing, maybe forever. Maybe eventually we’ll make money on it, but we’re gonna lose a whole hell of a lot more money if all of a sudden OU and Texas and Oklahoma State and somebody else goes to the PAC 12. Chip Brown had it right. At the last second that thing got blown up.”

There you go. Overpay for one, profit from another.

 

[Stinger92860]

Wow, you blew a gasket. Thanks for informing us that weeknight TV isn't primetime. Don't embarrass your alma mater by telling us which dreg school you graduated from. We figured that out already.

Upstater, what's wrong with you? We all know that ESPN shows UConn wbb in prime time to lose money. It's a producers like scheme.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Wake and BC are overpaid for the same reason the Jacksonville Jaguars are. They are part of a cartel that collectively negotiates media rights for all members. Does it suck for the Patriots, Cowboys and Giants? Maybe, but since they adopted that model and enhanced revenue sharing, the value of the league and each franchise has soared.

The same has happened to each of the P5 conferences. Northwestern, Purdue and Minnesota are "overpaid" too, but that's how these things work. Back when each school sold and negotiated its own media rights, the total payout was much, much smaller, and the payout to even the top schools was lower. That money helps ensure that the gulf between tOSU, Michigan and the rest doesn't become insurmountable. The less popular schools can still compete from time to time. Duke and Northwestern were both at decent a football a couple of years back. That doesn't happen without "revenue sharing".

It truly sucks when you are on the outside looking in. The real key for UConn, aside from joining one of the cartels, is alternative revenue models. What the smart NFL owners did after revenue sharing was to focus on the revenue they don't share. For UConn that's gate receipts, licensing/merchandise, concessions, etc. UConn and the AAC need to drive a much harder bargain next time, and getting T3 rights for the schools would be a huge benefit. @Fishy is certainly right that UConn is a bargain for ESPN right now. They know it and we know it.

 

[upstater]

Wake and BC are overpaid for the same reason the Jacksonville Jaguars are. They are part of a cartel that collectively negotiates media rights for all members. Does it suck for the Patriots, Cowboys and Giants? Maybe, but since they adopted that model and enhanced revenue sharing, the value of the league and each franchise has soared.

The same has happened to each of the P5 conferences. Northwestern, Purdue and Minnesota are "overpaid" too, but that's how these things work. Back when each school sold and negotiated its own media rights, the total payout was much, much smaller, and the payout to even the top schools was lower. That money helps ensure that the gulf between tOSU, Michigan and the rest doesn't become insurmountable. The less popular schools can still compete from time to time. Duke and Northwestern were both at decent a football a couple of years back. That doesn't happen without "revenue sharing".

It truly sucks when you are on the outside looking in. The real key for UConn, aside from joining one of the cartels, is alternative revenue models. What the smart NFL owners did after revenue sharing was to focus on the revenue they don't share. For UConn that's gate receipts, licensing/merchandise, concessions, etc. UConn and the AAC need to drive a much harder bargain next time, and getting T3 rights for the schools would be a huge benefit. @Fishy is certainly right that UConn is a bargain for ESPN right now. They know it and we know it.

We know they are paid for being part of the ACC.

The question being raised here is different.

The discussion is about whether ESPN's pool of money for spending on college football is augmented by the fact that it pays what is obviously a very low amount (well below value) for other conferences. The quote above from the Mizzou article that came out today shows that ESPN thinks of its college football holdings in sum, and not separately. It allows for loss leaders like the ACC and Texas, because it is crucial that it holds onto certain properties, and like Walmart, it makes up ground elsewhere to reach a profit. When its model is thrown off balance by potential college moves (as was the case in 2011 when the Big12 lost members) then the whole scale and balance needs to be rejiggered. Any additional AAC money will come at the expense of other conferences, either above it, or below it, possibly the B12. ESPN sees a "disturbance in the force" and tries to bring things into harmony.

 

[dwalks93]

The great irony is ignorant fans will say things like "if UConn was capable of generating P5 revenue they would be in the P5." What people do not understand is many (maybe even most) P5 programs aren't generating P5 revenue and the extra money being made off the AAC contract is subsidizing the P5.

Basically moving UConn to the P5 is a double hit for ESPN....more P5 payouts and much less G5 profit to subsidize the P5. As the Mizzou thread shows, ESPN doesn't balance the books per team or even per conference but instead combines the total income versus total payouts for all their media contracts. (sorry ACC homers..UConn's issue is with WF and BC, not just Tulsa and Tulane) If paying the Big12 a little more than it generates (or giving the ACC a network) maintains the status quo (which means ESPN is making money) then that is the best outcome for ESPN. The biggest threat to ESPN is a change in the market (re-alignment) which disrupts this delicately designed house of cards.

I used to wonder why UConn did not make an offer to the ACC like "we'll join for $12 million a year for 5 years with the contract to be re-negotiated after the 5 years based on performance." Certainly UConn's content is worth more than $12 million a year and it is more than we are getting now in the AAC with a much more attractive ACC schedule. Now it all makes sense....in the current operating environment ESPN would never allow the ACC to agree to an arrangement which allows UConn to move. It is not just the $12 million (using the above example) which would be paid to UConn in the ACC...its also the $20 million in value the AAC loses if UConn leaves.

There are only 2 options:
1. Change ESPN's bottom line...maybe it is political pressure, maybe it is legal pressure, maybe it is a threat to deprive an ESPN owned property of UConn content but the state of Connecticut/UConn has to change the financial calculous for ESPN. This is business for ESPN...its not fair and its not personal Connecticut needs to become as financially ruthless as ESPN if it wants to change the outcome
2. Break up the monopoly ...ESPN/FOX control the market and, as the Big12 drama showed, they will collaborate to maintain the status quo profit. UConn/AAC needs more bidders....perhaps that is a new streaming platform, perhaps that is a direct purchase model, perhaps it is soliciting new networks to enter the sports arena but as long as ESPN sets the market the AAC has no recourse.

IMO the biggest loser in the Big12 realignment is ESPN. ESPN has been outed and it is impossible to now deny who is driving re-alignment. We'll see if Connecticut has the stones to take ESPN on but there is no doubt where the cross hairs should be focused.

 

[uconnell]

You have to compare apples to apples however. If we take some of the P5 football games matchups with uasppealing or mediocre opponents, that would be relative then to matching that up with Uconn's Women's Basketball games ratings with an inferior or unattractive opponent TV game ratings as well. As such, a BC- Uconn football game ( both suck in football ) would still outdraw in TV ratings a Uconn- BC Women's Basketball game TV rating, where only BC sucks in that sport, but Uconn is in a class by itself in the college sport. Uconn Women's basketball does no better on the West Coast for example with its TV ratings there for a game with a non west school, than a Uconn football game thats televised there does on the West Coast for a non west school's team.

I believe not too long ago that ESPN put a Syracuse game on tape delay to show an UConn's women basketball game live.

 

[SAMCRO]

Weeknights is not prime time.

Umm, ya, that is exactly when prime time is, at least to this company called Nielsen.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The great irony is ignorant fans will say things like "if UConn was capable of generating P5 revenue they would be in the P5." What people do not understand is many (maybe even most) P5 programs aren't generating P5 revenue and the extra money being made off the AAC contract is subsidizing the P5.

Basically moving UConn to the P5 is a double hit for ESPN....more P5 payouts and much less G5 profit to subsidize the P5. As the Mizzou thread shows, ESPN doesn't balance the books per team or even per conference but instead combines the total income versus total payouts for all their media contracts. (sorry ACC homers..UConn's issue is with WF and BC, not just Tulsa and Tulane) If paying the Big12 a little more than it generates (or giving the ACC a network) maintains the status quo (which means ESPN is making money) then that is the best outcome for ESPN. The biggest threat to ESPN is a change in the market (re-alignment) which disrupts this delicately designed house of cards.

I used to wonder why UConn did not make an offer to the ACC like "we'll join for $12 million a year for 5 years with the contract to be re-negotiated after the 5 years based on performance." Certainly UConn's content is worth more than $12 million a year and it is more than we are getting now in the AAC with a much more attractive ACC schedule. Now it all makes sense....in the current operating environment ESPN would never allow the ACC to agree to an arrangement which allows UConn to move. It is not just the $12 million (using the above example) which would be paid to UConn in the ACC...its also the $20 million in value the AAC loses if UConn leaves.

There are only 2 options:
1. Change ESPN's bottom line...maybe it is political pressure, maybe it is legal pressure, maybe it is a threat to deprive an ESPN owned property of UConn content but the state of Connecticut/UConn has to change the financial calculous for ESPN. This is business for ESPN...its not fair and its not personal Connecticut needs to become as financially ruthless as ESPN if it wants to change the outcome
2. Break up the monopoly ...ESPN/FOX control the market and, as the Big12 drama showed, they will collaborate to maintain the status quo profit. UConn/AAC needs more bidders....perhaps that is a new streaming platform, perhaps that is a direct purchase model, perhaps it is soliciting new networks to enter the sports arena but as long as ESPN sets the market the AAC has no recourse.

IMO the biggest loser in the Big12 realignment is ESPN. ESPN has been outed and it is impossible to now deny who is driving re-alignment. We'll see if Connecticut has the stones to take ESPN on but there is no doubt where the cross hairs should be focused.

Now, in light of all this, we can think about the leak (which had to come from Tranghese) to Blauds, threatening that UConn could fly the coop to the Big East. It was meant to rattle this house of cards, it was a warning (as I said at the time). It didn't do enough obviously, but it seems to me that Benedict knows he needs to call ESPN out on this and let them know we aren't going to allow UConn to continue to suffer the short end of this stick beyond the current AAC deal.

I suspect that the next couple of years for UConn are all about facilitating a viable option that moves us out of the "underpaid and highly profitable" collection in ESPN's portfolio. Benedict mentioned discussions he wants to have with them, and I have little doubt that the message will be reiterated. Meanwhile, we'll talk to Fox, SNY and anyone else, to assess our options when the AAC contract ends. We need leverage.

 

[HoopsFan21]

I believe not too long ago that ESPN put a Syracuse game on tape delay to show an UConn's women basketball game live.

Yeah that happened 2 or 3 years ago during the NCAA tourney. The women were playing in the 4 o'clock time slot I believe, and Syracuse had a game that was starting around that same time or at one of those funky men's tourney times like 3:56 or 4:07. Syracuse got bumped for the UConn women and the Syracuse game was shown later that night on tape delay.

 

[SubbaBub]

UConn should open a school of sports media. That would eventually fix this problem.

 

[lne001]

Umm, ya, that is exactly when prime time is, at least to this company called Nielsen.

If weekday nights are prime time for sports (not normal network programs), when the hell is non-prime time - 3AM? Prime time to me is whenever the advertising rates are the highest, which I'm guessing is still the weekend for sports. You can define it as whatever makes you happy.

 

[MattMang23]

Yeah that happened 2 or 3 years ago during the NCAA tourney. The women were playing in the 4 o'clock time slot I believe, and Syracuse had a game that was starting around that same time or at one of those funky men's tourney times like 3:56 or 4:07. Syracuse got bumped for the UConn women and the Syracuse game was shown later that night on tape delay.

Unless Cuse was in the NIT at the time I don't know how that's possible. The men's tourney isn't played on the ESPN networks.