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Who actually brings value

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I think Frank gets that. It's the BC and Wake fans that are arguing that their schools value is on par with UConn's in a vacuum that is silly.

Based on what he wrote, he doesn't get that.

His post argued that wake's money is a result of its association with FSU. But the truth is that ESPN looks at a pool of college sports profits, and then it tries to drive the best deal with the conferences that it possibly can. I agree with Frank on that.

But it's not what we are discussing. We are discussing the channel's profitmakers and the way that money is channeled from schools in one conference (UConn in the AAC) to schools in another conference (ACC). There is a limited pool of money. Judging by the # of appearances on television, we can say that some properties are more valuable (profitable) than others, and moreover, the profits subsidize the others, given that limited pool.
 
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I think Frank gets that. It's the BC and Wake fans that are arguing that their schools value is on par with UConn's .

Nobody has said this on here at all. The thread topic is about Uconn being screwed by ESPN according to the OP, and that NESN has ( apparently) no interest to Uconn football and its fans to see a Diaco weekly TV show on NESN in the fall, ... or, SNY has TV rights that allegedly might preclude Diaco from getting his Uconn football program on NESN for NESN's primarily New England based audience. (Wake/BC. other schools " values " thus seem irrelevent to the OP's Uconn TV networks topic, imo )
 
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All this talk about NESN... a network many people in Connecticut can't even watch.
 
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All this talk about NESN... a network many people in Connecticut can't even watch.
NESN has much wider distribution access to most people's homes in New England than even the B10, ACC Network does. NESN is part of the basic TV packge in most N.E. homes. SNY is far less available as a station in most New England states homes than NESN is. I think Uconn is missing an important N ew England based TV exposure outlet, if they are saying that a weekly Uconn football program highlighting Uconn football by its coaches and players on NESN is somehow unimportant. Its not like Uconn football home attendance is breaking records, that such exposure is considered unnecesary or duplicative. FSU, Miami are in the ACC, but they have negotiated local afiliate TV contracts here in Florida to broadcast a weekly tv show on their football programs in their immediate school campus locales. Their ACC contract does not preclude this separate TV negotiation with a local afiliate for their weekly local football program broadcast. To my knowledge, Uconn has not given away such rights to SNY to do so either.. or if t Uconn did, they should not have done so, imo. As mentioned above, Jim Calhoun and Geno A, BOTH viewed NESN as important exposure for their programs, and have had weekly programs on NESN hightlighting their programs during the season. But Uconn football does not believe it is needed ? Interesting, to say the least, if this is the prevailing sentiment here.
 
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NESN has much wider distribution access to most people's homes in New England than even the B10, ACC Network does. NESN is part of the basic TV packge in most N.E. homes. SNY is far less available in most New England states than NESN is. I think Uconn is missing an important TV exposure outlet, if they are saying that a weekly Uconn football program highlighting Uconn football by its coaches and players on NESN is unimportant. Its not like Uconn football home attendance is breaking records, that such exposure is consiudered unnecesary. FSU, Miami are in the ACC, but they have negotiated local afiliate TV contracts here in Florida to broadcast a weekly tv show on their football program in their immediate school campus locales. Their ACC contract does not preclude this separate TV negotiation with a local afiliate for weekly broadcast. To my knowledge, Uconn has not given away such rights to SNY either.. or if they did, they should not have, imo.
I'm glad they aren't on NESN. As one who lives in the NYC market in Connecticut, where roughly a third of us live, I can't get NESN. I get SNY and BTN though, so I'm happy for the SNY coverage of UConn. Boston metro population is 4 million, NYC 25 million, so I think SNY is the better choice for maximum exposure.
 
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NESN has much wider distribution access to most people's homes in New England than even the B10, ACC Network does. NESN is part of the basic TV packge in most N.E. homes. SNY is far less available in most New England states than NESN is. I think Uconn is missing an important TV exposure outlet, if they are saying that a weekly Uconn football program highlighting Uconn football by its coaches and players on NESN is somehow unimportant. Its not like Uconn football home attendance is breaking records, that such exposure is considered unnecesary or duplicative. FSU, Miami are in the ACC, but they have negotiated local afiliate TV contracts here in Florida to broadcast a weekly tv show on their football programs in their immediate school campus locales. Their ACC contract does not preclude this separate TV negotiation with a local afiliate for their weekly local football program broadcast. To my knowledge, Uconn has not given away such rights to SNY to do so either.. or if t Uconn did, they should not have done so, imo.

If the Red Sox want exposure in the Tri-State area they should be doing coaches shows on YES and SNY. Those channels are in far more homes. :rolleyes:
 
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I'm glad they aren't on NESN. As one who lives in the NYC market in Connecticut, where roughly a third of us live, I can't get NESN

I can certainly understand New Yorkers or Southern Connecticut residents not interested in NESN. That makes perfect sense.. of course. NESN stands for " New England Sports Network ". As such, its network shows are geared toward New England college, pro teams, and to its audience interests and tastes. Uconn is located in Connecticut. It recruits its football players heavily in New England ( and branches out to NY/ NJ, then nationally ) Uconn football needs to have a weekly TV show on its football program for New Englanders on NESN in the future, imo. If people ( not you ) disagree with this, thats cool and all too.
 
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We all know that the big dogs like FSU feed the smaller schools.

His post argued that wake's money is a result of its association with FSU. But the truth is that ESPN looks at a pool of college sports profits, and then it tries to drive the best deal with the conferences that it possibly can.

?
 
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If the Red Sox want exposure in the Tri-State area they should be doing coaches shows on YES and SNY. Those channels are in far more homes. :rolleyes:
lets not get into an unrelated discussion on what the Red Sox need to do in TV exposure, in a thread regarding ESPN screwing over Uconn, or what Uconn football needs to do with the networks. The Red Sox (and the Yankees, Pro teams in NY, Boston ) have so much saturated TV, Radio, print coverage both locally and nationally already, that bringing such pro teams into the thread on Uconn football seems a bit silly, with its total irrelevance here to the OP's topic.
 
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Incidentally, since the pro teams angle has now been brought up, one thing that Uconn football fans and N.E. Patriots Football fans agree on, is that ESPN is a fraudulent shitshow with its corruption, political B.S. posturings, and overall NFL groveling for the NFL and the thoroughly corrupted commish Roger Goodell.
 
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The question however is not how many people in New England watch the BC football program on NESN each week in the Fall ( few do ), the question that is germane to this thread is why nobody in New England watches a UConn football weekly program on NESN in New England, as Bob Diaco and his football program have no such NESN show in the fall for New England audiences. How come ? UConn is not a NY/ NJ school... they are a New England based school, in the N.E. state of Connecticut. Thus, UConn SHOULD have a UConn football devoted program on NESN in the fall, imo. Do you disagree ?
NESN a very MA/Boston centric broadcast (owned by the Red Sox and Bruins). As I've found living in MA for the past 20 years, when people say New England, they basically mean Boston (within 495) and portions of southern Maine and NH.
Western MA, CT, RI, and VT might as well be in another universe.
 
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Based on what he wrote, he doesn't get that.

His post argued that wake's money is a result of its association with FSU. But the truth is that ESPN looks at a pool of college sports profits, and then it tries to drive the best deal with the conferences that it possibly can. I agree with Frank on that.

But it's not what we are discussing. We are discussing the channel's profitmakers and the way that money is channeled from schools in one conference (UConn in the AAC) to schools in another conference (ACC). There is a limited pool of money. Judging by the # of appearances on television, we can say that some properties are more valuable (profitable) than others, and moreover, the profits subsidize the others, given that limited pool.

Oh, I understand your argument. I don't necessarily agree that your data point (the number of ESPN appearances by UConn) supports your conclusion (that this means UConn is subsidizing schools within the P5 that aren't as valuable). UConn may very well be more valuable than Wake Forest, but I don't think that the number of ESPN appearances compared between different conferences that have different contracts supports that contention in and of itself. The only way that this would be possible is if ESPN actually pooled all of the basketball and football inventory from all conferences together and could freely pick and choose games on an a la carte basis despite paying different amounts to those conferences. If THAT were happening, then sure, you could argue that the UConns of the world are subsidizing members of the P5.

However, that's simply not how it works - ESPN is mandated to show x number of AAC games per week, and y number of ACC games per week, and z number of Big Ten games per week, et. al. So, the number of appearances by UConn certainly shows its relative value (at least for basketball) compared to the rest of the AAC. Since ESPN is mandated to show a certain number of AAC games per week, it's fair to say that ESPN finds the UConn games to be the most valuable out of its pool of AAC games. ESPN *has* to show those AAC basketball games, so it's going to ride UConn like it's Zorro compared to its other options. In contrast, I'm sure there were a lot better matchups that UConn had in the old Big East that were relegated to ESPN Regional (which would certainly make it to ESPN now if they were under the AAC contract) because ESPN had a lot better pool of games to pick and choose from in that old league. On the football side, Houston is likely going to end up with more ESPN and ABC appearances than Miami this season, yet that's because pretty much every Houston game is going to clearly be the #1 choice each week to fulfill ESPN's contractual obligations with the AAC than any notion that Houston is somehow more valuable than Miami (where ESPN is going to give priority to ACC games involving those still in the national title race like Clemson). You see this with ESPN's West Coast Conference contract, too, where ESPN fulfills its contract with that league by showing Gonzaga as much as possible (with maybe BYU thrown in every once in awhile). Same thing with ESPN's Mountain West contract obligations where it takes Boise State every chance that it gets.

You (and many others here) are also coming at this from the assumption that the AAC must be profitable for ESPN simply because it isn't paying the AAC that much. No one can know that for certain without looking at ESPN's books, but at the same time, no one should assume that the contract is profitable based on its low cost. Remember that ad revenue rates rise in a logarithmic (as opposed to linear) manner: a 5.0 rating football product doesn't just generate twice as much revenue as a 2.5 rating football product - instead, you can charge 3, 4 or 5 times as much for the 5.0 game because there's a premium associated for the larger audience (as it's becoming significantly harder to find any audiences on TV of that size). (Now, the AAC may certainly turn out to be profitable this year, but it would be because of Houston's ratings for football that have delivered at a P5 level this year.) With the exception of a handful of basketball games per year like Duke-UNC or when there's some combo of Duke/UNC/Kentucky/Kansas playing each other, the ratings for regular season college basketball simply don't approach anywhere near college football, and that's why basketball is paid accordingly.

ESPN and Fox and CBS and NBC aren't dumb: they're not paying literally hundreds of millions of dollars for P5 college football because they think they're going to lose money on those games. The P5 is getting paid because their 1 or 2 top games per week can consistently deliver a rating that is larger than any other regular season sporting event outside of the NFL... and people need to understand that those types of ratings numbers are VERY hard to find in today's fragmented TV environment. They're getting an extraordinary ad premium for those games (just as they're getting the same type of premium for NFL games and NBA playoff games), which is why they're paying a premium for those games in the first place. The rest of the games outside of those 1 or 2 top games are more or less filler (with some leagues like the SEC and Big Ten having greater depth than others) along with basketball. As long as those 1 or 2 top P5 games deliver each week, ESPN is happy and *that* is what makes them money as opposed to the filler content.

To put it into the movie context, the top P5 college football games are the equivalent of a Star Wars or Marvel movie: Disney is going to pay a massive budget for those types of movies because those are really the only movies that give it even a *chance* at massive profits. Those blockbusters might not make money every single time, but when one of them does exceed expectations (like The Force Awakens or the first Avengers movie), then it single-handedly makes the entire movie division massively profitable worldwide for multiple years. College basketball, on the other hand, is the equivalent of the low budget horror movies: low financial risk but also a low ceiling, so the amount of profit is low (albeit the profit *margin* can be high with a once-in-a-blue-moon breakout hit like Paranormal Activity).

Note what largely has disappeared from the movie landscape: mid-budget films (those in the $50 million to $100 million range). Movie people will pay big money for the biggest brand names and they'll sprinkle in some low budget filler films, but they do NOT want to pay for that middle tier. It's basically an all-or-nothing high-or-low budget strategy in Hollywood. Well, the same people that run Hollywood happen to be the same people that sign TV sports contracts. Disney/ESPN, Fox and Comcast/NBC/Universal are applying the EXACT same budget strategy to sports (both college and pro) and basically everything else on television. A few marquee sports properties get a ton of money and the other sports properties get low budget money (with no "middle class" in between). That's yet another reason why the gap between the P5 and G5 is so massive.
 
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lets not get into an unrelated discussion on what the Red Sox need to do in TV exposure, in a thread regarding ESPN screwing over Uconn, or what Uconn football needs to do with the networks. The Red Sox (and the Yankees, Pro teams in NY, Boston ) have so much saturated TV, Radio, print coverage both locally and nationally already, that bringing such pro teams into the thread on Uconn football seems a bit silly, with its total irrelevance here to the OP's topic.

I didn't think you would mind since you brought up an unrelated discussion about coaches shows on NESN. Which part of NESN is related to the original post?
 
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I completely understand the frustration of the UConn fans here. I would agree that Wake Forest is not worth 10 times as much as UConn. The core issue is that the ACC probably *is* worth 10 times more than the AAC from a TV perspective. The fact that Florida State might be worth $100 million per year while Wake Forest is worth $5 million per year yet are paid the same is (as others have noted) based on the choice of the ACC to distribute TV money equally.

You can see a real-time annual corollary to this in the English Premier League TV distributions. When a club gets promoted, it immediately reaps exponentially more TV money than the prior year when it was in a lower division. Likewise, when a club gets demoted, its TV revenue ends up getting slashed to a fraction of what it received previously (albeit the EPL does have a system where it "smooths out" the reduction over a period of years). Nothing has really substantively changed with those clubs except for their league membership. So, is the club that was just promoted really worth 10 times as much TV-wise as the club that was just relegated? Well, if you're just looking at the value of those clubs individually in a vacuum, the answer is no. However, if you're looking at the value of the overall product that they're a part of (the entire English Premier League versus the entire lower division), you would certainly say that the EPL overall is worth 10 times (and really much more) than the lower division, so the bottom of the EPL receives that benefit.

So, Wake Forest is getting the financial benefit of being a FSU punching bag in the same way that newly-promoted EPL clubs get the financial benefit of being a Manchester United or Chelsea punching bag. The P5 has subscribed to the equal sharing of TV revenue concept with the exception of the reservation of 3rd tier rights in the Big 12... and it's not an accident that the P5 league with the most internal acrimony happens to be the Big 12. With the equal sharing concept pretty entrenched at this point, you're going to see this massive gap between the lowest tier P5 schools and the best G5 programs just as you see the TV revenue gap between the bottom 4 EPL clubs and the top 4 lower division clubs. They're getting paid within the context of the respective values of their overall leagues as opposed to what they are worth individually in a vacuum.
so you are saying that BC, Rutgers and Wake Forest should be relegated?
 
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Nobody has said this on here at all. The thread topic is about Uconn being screwed by ESPN according to the OP, and that NESN has ( apparently) no interest to Uconn football and its fans to see a Diaco weekly TV show on NESN in the fall, ... or, SNY has TV rights that allegedly might preclude Diaco from getting his Uconn football program on NESN for NESN's primarily New England based audience. (Wake/BC. other schools " values " thus seem irrelevent to the OP's Uconn TV networks topic, imo )
actually, the title of the thread is 'who brings the value'... i'm assuming you went to BC so that was probably over your head.
 
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Coaches shows are boring. They went out with Atari and H/jobs.
Players are interviwed as well on all these shows across the country,.. that just about every major football program in the country has broadcasted within their school's immediate environs. If you believe they are all boring, that may be the case.. who knows, but most all major college football programs have weekly football programs broadcast in the Fall in their immediate vicinity of their school's stadium. Even little ol BC football has one broadcasted too. The shows are chock full of feel good propaganda.. there are no hostile press shown. Such programming allows the Coach to control the entire segments that tend to be 100% positive about the program. You can't get enough of that, imo, even if the coaches on occasion are " boring ". School's still like these PR prgramming too, and see its " value " to them... or lets be real, they all wouldn't continue to do them.
 
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Oh, I understand your argument. I don't necessarily agree that your data point (the number of ESPN appearances by UConn) supports your conclusion (that this means UConn is subsidizing schools within the P5 that aren't as valuable). UConn may very well be more valuable than Wake Forest, but I don't think that the number of ESPN appearances compared between different conferences that have different contracts supports that contention in and of itself. The only way that this would be possible is if ESPN actually pooled all of the basketball and football inventory from all conferences together and could freely pick and choose games on an a la carte basis despite paying different amounts to those conferences. If THAT were happening, then sure, you could argue that the UConns of the world are subsidizing members of the P5.

However, that's simply not how it works - ESPN is mandated to show x number of AAC games per week, and y number of ACC games per week, and z number of Big Ten games per week, et. al. So, the number of appearances by UConn certainly shows its relative value (at least for basketball) compared to the rest of the AAC. Since ESPN is mandated to show a certain number of AAC games per week, it's fair to say that ESPN finds the UConn games to be the most valuable out of its pool of AAC games. ESPN *has* to show those AAC basketball games, so it's going to ride UConn like it's Zorro compared to its other options. In contrast, I'm sure there were a lot better matchups that UConn had in the old Big East that were relegated to ESPN Regional (which would certainly make it to ESPN now if they were under the AAC contract) because ESPN had a lot better pool of games to pick and choose from in that old league. On the football side, Houston is likely going to end up with more ESPN and ABC appearances than Miami this season, yet that's because pretty much every Houston game is going to clearly be the #1 choice each week to fulfill ESPN's contractual obligations with the AAC than any notion that Houston is somehow more valuable than Miami (where ESPN is going to give priority to ACC games involving those still in the national title race like Clemson). You see this with ESPN's West Coast Conference contract, too, where ESPN fulfills its contract with that league by showing Gonzaga as much as possible (with maybe BYU thrown in every once in awhile). Same thing with ESPN's Mountain West contract obligations where it takes Boise State every chance that it gets.

You (and many others here) are also coming at this from the assumption that the AAC must be profitable for ESPN simply because it isn't paying the AAC that much. No one can know that for certain without looking at ESPN's books, but at the same time, no one should assume that the contract is profitable based on its low cost. Remember that ad revenue rates rise in a logarithmic (as opposed to linear) manner: a 5.0 rating football product doesn't just generate twice as much revenue as a 2.5 rating football product - instead, you can charge 3, 4 or 5 times as much for the 5.0 game because there's a premium associated for the larger audience (as it's becoming significantly harder to find any audiences on TV of that size). (Now, the AAC may certainly turn out to be profitable this year, but it would be because of Houston's ratings for football that have delivered at a P5 level this year.) With the exception of a handful of basketball games per year like Duke-UNC or when there's some combo of Duke/UNC/Kentucky/Kansas playing each other, the ratings for regular season college basketball simply don't approach anywhere near college football, and that's why basketball is paid accordingly.

ESPN and Fox and CBS and NBC aren't dumb: they're not paying literally hundreds of millions of dollars for P5 college football because they think they're going to lose money on those games. The P5 is getting paid because their 1 or 2 top games per week can consistently deliver a rating that is larger than any other regular season sporting event outside of the NFL... and people need to understand that those types of ratings numbers are VERY hard to find in today's fragmented TV environment. They're getting an extraordinary ad premium for those games (just as they're getting the same type of premium for NFL games and NBA playoff games), which is why they're paying a premium for those games in the first place. The rest of the games outside of those 1 or 2 top games are more or less filler (with some leagues like the SEC and Big Ten having greater depth than others) along with basketball. As long as those 1 or 2 top P5 games deliver each week, ESPN is happy and *that* is what makes them money as opposed to the filler content.

To put it into the movie context, the top P5 college football games are the equivalent of a Star Wars or Marvel movie: Disney is going to pay a massive budget for those types of movies because those are really the only movies that give it even a *chance* at massive profits. Those blockbusters might not make money every single time, but when one of them does exceed expectations (like The Force Awakens or the first Avengers movie), then it single-handedly makes the entire movie division massively profitable worldwide for multiple years. College basketball, on the other hand, is the equivalent of the low budget horror movies: low financial risk but also a low ceiling, so the amount of profit is low (albeit the profit *margin* can be high with a once-in-a-blue-moon breakout hit like Paranormal Activity).

Note what largely has disappeared from the movie landscape: mid-budget films (those in the $50 million to $100 million range). Movie people will pay big money for the biggest brand names and they'll sprinkle in some low budget filler films, but they do NOT want to pay for that middle tier. It's basically an all-or-nothing high-or-low budget strategy in Hollywood. Well, the same people that run Hollywood happen to be the same people that sign TV sports contracts. Disney/ESPN, Fox and Comcast/NBC/Universal are applying the EXACT same budget strategy to sports (both college and pro) and basically everything else on television. A few marquee sports properties get a ton of money and the other sports properties get low budget money (with no "middle class" in between). That's yet another reason why the gap between the P5 and G5 is so massive.

Your first paragraph makes an excellent point. Those appearances are indeed part of the contract, which cuts into the point we're making.

However, the second part of Fishy's original post was about the tier 3 SNY contract with women's bball. On that alone, you see how ESPN makes a tremendous amount on the contract. They get all that stuff for pennies.
 
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Players are interviwed as well on all these shows across the country,.. that just about every major football program in the country has broadcasted within their school's immediate environs. If you believe they are all boring, that may be the case.. who knows, but most all major college football programs have weekly football programs broadcast in the Fall in their immediate vicinity of their school's stadium. Even little ol BC football has one broadcasted too. The shows are chock full of feel good propaganda.. there are no hostile press shown. Such programming allows the Coach to control the entire segments that tend to be 100% positive about the program. You can't get enough of that, imo, even if the coaches on occasion are " boring ". School's still like these PR prgramming too, and see its " value " to them... or lets be real, they all wouldn't continue to do them.

While BC football was being preempted by rodeo in Boston, Peter Gammons was replying to a Mike Francesa question of New York's WFAN 660:

Francesa: "How are things in Boston, is everyone excited about the opening of the baseball season."
Gammons: "Not really, everyone up here is locked into watching UConn."
 
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NESN a very MA/Boston centric broadcast (owned by the Red Sox and Bruins). As I've found living in MA for the past 20 years, when people say New England, they basically mean Boston (within 495) and portions of southern Maine and NH.
Western MA, CT, RI, and VT might as well be in another universe.
While perhaps true, Uconn basketball programs with Calhoun, Geno were on NESN, so both Uconn and NESN saw the benefits to the school's exposure on NESN. Uconn football and NESN apparently do not see a similar " value " to have such similar programming for Uconn's football program, despite the fact that no league contracts prohibit such local afiliate alliances for such individual school's weekly programming that Geno and Calhoun had with NESN.
 
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While BC football was being preempted by rodeo in Boston, Peter Gammons was replying to a Mike Francesa question of New York's WFAN 660:

Francesa: "How are things in Boston, is everyone excited about the opening of the baseball season."
Gammons: "Not really, everyone up here is locked into watching UConn."

. haha!... I like Peter Gammons, so don't get me wrong, but Gammons doesn't know if a football is stuffed or pumped. He couldn't tell us the name of a current football player at either BC or Uconn to save his life( lol!)
 

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