Who actually brings value

[noeynox]

This is very true but aside from the overarching point (which you are either deliberately ignoring or unable to comprehend) the ultimate end result of what you stated (in this environment where pursuit of further dollars takes precedent) will be schools like FSU asking themselves why schools like Wake & BC are getting the benefit of FSU's success. The next domino to fall here will be the P-5 schools who can't carry their own weight. The move to a P-4 world will be through cherry picking the best of the ACC & B-12.

I don't think this happens in out lifetime. If it was gonna happen, I think you would have seen UVA and North Carolina bolt to the Big 10 when Maryland did. They would,be bathing in dollars if they had.

 

[noeynox]

Actually ESPN is in the business of making money. Thus they show their best properties on their best channels at the best time slots. This is what drives advertising revenue. Football is thus the king, with a nod to men's basketball. Women's basketball draws little and makes little money. Putting UConn women's basketball on ESPN3 at 7:00 PM EST with 10 other women's games is not a significant revenue generator, no matter how many times they are on.

Any analysis which does not show advertising dollars generated is meaningless to ESPN.

UConn womens,basketball is one espn and espn 2 more,than wake and BC combined for all sports., so who knows,what the hell your point is.

 

[HoopsFan21]

But not because of Wake. You aren't subsidizing Wake.

If you live and pay taxes in the state of Connecticut you are.

 

[NYUConn]

But not because of Wake. You aren't subsidizing Wake.

Not in the literal sense, but in the broader sense that ESPN is a network that needs content.

They have their choice in which content they choose to show on their flagship network. They choose to show UConn games consistently at a higher rate than Wake Forest, Boston College, Rutgers, Northwestern - take your pick of any P5 bottom feeder.

They are getting these games a pennies on the dollar compared to what they pay for the right to broadcast ACC, B1G, SEC, Big 12 and PAC 12 games. So to the extent that they can show UConn games on their flagship for next to nothing and ACC conference games on ESPNU, that's a huge win for them.

Because they can afford to show UConn games cheap that gives them highly-rated content to show in between Duke, UNC and Michigan State games, allowing them to relegate Wake and BC to ESPN News. Yet, because Wake and BC are ACC schools they can still collect their paycheck and not have to worry about it.

So no, in a contractual and legal sense UConn is not subsidizing Wake and BC, but our presence on the network a dozen times a year for cheap allows those bottom feeder schools to keep cashing their P5 paychecks while keeping their TV partner (ESPN) happy.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Does it matter? UConn is being screwed. .

Yes, I would think UConn fans would want to know why thy are being " screwed over ". Without knowing what the problems are with the P5 conferences, and now the networks on how they view UConn, then no steps can be taken to alter this apparent unfair screwing, and UConn's perception nationally and outside of Connecticut with this constant screwing of UConn by everybody outside the state.... and what appears now with ESPN, even " a screwing " inside the state now, and by one of the state's biggest Corporations.

 

[SubbaBub]

FB runs CR because,
FB money goes directly to the school's because,
FB money isn't run through the NCAA becuase,
FB money started with the Bowl Committees long before the NCAA was a thing so,

FB is run by the conferences becuase they control the money,

Value is based on perception, perception is based on winning big games, Big Bowl games are the most common way to see top intersectional matchups.

The bowls are aligned with certain conferences. The opportunity to be perceived as valuable is slanted towned the affiliated conferences. The TV money follows and th P5 is born.

The money allows the division to sustain itself.

Valuable teams play in these conferences, regardless of the individual schools value. Over time the success builds a following, this following amplifies perception which amplifies money which perpetuates the divide.

To be valuable you need to be in a conference with access to a contract bowl game, then you need to win enough to build a large following. Without the winning and a large following any school can be plugged into the P5 system and be compensated as if they were "valuable".

We are more valuable per media dollar earned than any school in the nation right now. If put into a P5 situation we become more valuable than half the current P5 schools.

 

[Marty Jackson]

I know there has been threads on Tier 1,2, and 3 rights in the passed... I'm not too savy on the searching for old threads.
can some explain what uconn's tier 2/3 rights are and where they are going today? If the AAC has a contract from ESPN that pays $x's, is the actual payout to each team increased because they are pooling everyone's Tier 3 funds? I'm assuming Uconn's Tier 3 rights are one of the highest in the AAC, hence they are subsidizing the other AAC schools.

Would that have been in the Uconn presentation as well? wouldn't that be an easy way to determine what a school is bringing to the table in terms of value? If that figure were known or more public wouldn't that debunk ESPN/Fox theory of $0 value for G5 schools. It would certainly start to formulate a view of Fishy's comments above about just how much Uconn is subsidizing both the AAC and ESPN while the university is consistently told they add $0 value.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Cheap labor built the pyramids. .

The Pyramids were built by a combo of unwilling forced indigenous labor and slave labor from captured peoples. The analogy here then is that UConn is " cheap labor" :.. or are forced " slaves " in P5 realignments, and in relationships to the Networks. If that is the case, UConn should have the right to quit being " slaves", and walk away altogether if the relationships are so slave like. Unlike the builders of the pyramids, UConn is not being forced to build ESPN even a water cooler there in Bristol, so they can cease any contracts they have with ESPN when their contract is up, and walk, if they believe in hindsight they were screwed over in the contracts they agreed too earlier with ESPN.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Damn ESPN. Trying to kill UConn using our own tax dollars. Then we the taxpayers have to give more tax dollars to make up the University's difference. Just so Wake Forest and BC are able to get a big enough cut of the ACC pie.

yes... and when that fact becomes more universally known, I think you'll have more congressional input. right now, CT is the only flagship university that was relegated. if that pool takes on Kansas or Iowa State, I think you'll start to see a backlash.
Was it a coincidence that Utah wound up in the Pac12? Their senator was the most outspoken about the BCS cartel at the time.
Suddenly he doesn't have a dog in the fight.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

Yes, we are criminally underpaid for the value we are bringing to that network. The fault of that is Aresco, the AAC, and with us..

My memory is Swiss cheese and hit or miss so maybe I'm remembering wrong. Wasn't there essentially just one bidder for our product (NBCSN?)? ESPN had the right to match it and since the initial bid was so low, that's how ESPN got it for pennies. The one good thing we got that factors into this argument was that the initial bidder was going to televise every FB game (or maybe it was FB & BB), so ESPN had to match that too. So we are on TV all the time and getting great exposure but getting pennies on the dollar.
Now someone correct what I've remembered incorrectly.

 

[NYUConn]

My memory is Swiss cheese and hit or miss so maybe I'm remembering wrong. Wasn't there essentially just one bidder for our product (NBCSN?)? ESPN had the right to match it and since the initial bid was so low, that's how ESPN got it for pennies. The one good thing we got that factors into this argument was that the initial bidder was going to televise every FB game (or maybe it was FB & BB), so ESPN had to match that too. So we are on TV all the time and getting great exposure but getting pennies on the dollar.
Now someone correct what I've remembered incorrectly.

You're memory is better than you give yourself credit for.

Basically Marinatto screwed us with the TV deal that Aresco inherited. It said that ESPN had the right to match any outside bid. NBCSN gave us a lowball bid, ESPN matched it and here we are.

 

[UConn990411]

I'm sure there are plenty of smart people who attended ACC schools, but none of them seem to make it over to this board.

 

[BUConn10]

Wait wait wait. Time and time again we have been insulted and told to shut up by this boards most rational and level headed posters that ESPN has nothing against UConn and has never actively done anything to hurt the athletic program.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Even in New England, NESN covers apparently overvalued BC more than the apparently undervalued UConn .How come ? Anyone got any possible explanations as to why it appears that even NESN is apparently " screwing over UConn " ? Does Diaco have a half hour weekly show televised throughout New England ? Why not ? BC stinks in football, but BC has a show on NESN each week with its coaches and players being interviewed. Is this NESN's fault too for " screwing over UConn " ? It could be. But if so, no reasons so far have been put forth for the " screwings " at NESN either, as near as we can tell.

 

[SubbaBub]

I know there has been threads on Tier 1,2, and 3 rights in the passed... I'm not too savy on the searching for old threads.
can some explain what uconn's tier 2/3 rights are and where they are going today? If the AAC has a contract from ESPN that pays $x's, is the actual payout to each team increased because they are pooling everyone's Tier 3 funds? I'm assuming Uconn's Tier 3 rights are one of the highest in the AAC, hence they are subsidizing the other AAC schools.

Would that have been in the Uconn presentation as well? wouldn't that be an easy way to determine what a school is bringing to the table in terms of value? If that figure were known or more public wouldn't that debunk ESPN/Fox theory of $0 value for G5 schools. It would certainly start to formulate a view of Fishy's comments above about just how much Uconn is subsidizing both the AAC and ESPN while the university is consistently told they add $0 value.

Tiers are a fancy way of saying which media company gets to pick first. If the B1G deal with ESPN is to provide 36 FB games and 50 BB games per season with ESPN getting to decide which games, those are Tier 1 rights. Subsequent contracts with Fox, BTN, CBS, whomever are written in such a way that they pick after ESPN, and so on down the line. Generally, Tier 3 is leftover games after the primary, and secondary oulet contract requirements are met.

The AAC sold all its rights, 1, 2, 3 for everything to ESPN. The LNH consists of UT's tier 3 content. Games neither ABC or Fox chose to air on a given week. The B12 teams own their T3 content, the ACC's were sold to Raycom which they are trying to buy back. The SEC, BIG, and P12 all have conference networks distibuting T3 content. A few random game may be left with schools to sell on their own.


For UConn, anything that was on SNY or CBS before the AAC was T3. ESPN had the T1 through the Big East, and CBS had T2 BB.

The WBB crowd is livid because until the AAC sold everything. UConn had a T3 WBB deal with SNY that paid nearly as much as the entire current AAC share.

 

[NYUConn]

Wait wait wait. Time and time again we have been insulted and told to shut up by this boards most rational and level headed posters that ESPN has nothing against UConn and has never actively done anything to hurt the athletic program.

I don't think anyone has ever argued that ESPN has done nothing to hurt UConn. I think people have made the argument that ESPN has nothing personal against UConn, which I don't think they do.

It's just business. ESPN has no reason to let us get into a P5 conference when they can make money hand over fist keeping us in The American.

Not like John Skipper is sitting in his office thinking of ways to screw us out of spite. He's looking to make money and if keeping us in the American was a way to do that, than tough luck.

 

[NYUConn]

Even in New England, NESN covers apprarently overvalued BC more than the apparently undervalued UConn .How come ? Anyone got any possible explanations as to why it appears that even NESN is apparently " screwing over UConn " ? Does Diaco have a half hour weekly show televised throughout New England ? Why not ? BC stinks in football, but BC has a show on NESN each week with its coaches and players being interviewed. Is this NESN's fault too for " screwing over UConn " ?

Umm, contracts? NESN has a broadcast agreement with the ACC. They show BC games, but also show other ACC teams every weekend too.

 

[Jimdish255]

Our problem is simple. We're the nicest house on the block and we've elevated everyone else's value disproportionately from the investments made to our own property. As long as we remain a tool for a network to provide quality content in major markets for cheap there is a huge disincentive to move us elsewhere. That's why the networks consistently work against our interests.

The only thing that can prevent this in the future is a conference that really "needs" us or a price to pay for the network blocking our movement. I don't know exactly what form that price might take or if any of the options are good, but unless we have some other guaranteed Plan B option moving fofward we need to figure out how to stop being the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[BUConn10]

I don't think anyone has ever argued that ESPN has done nothing to hurt UConn. I think people have made the argument that ESPN has nothing personal against UConn, which I don't think they do.

It's just business. ESPN has no reason to let us get into a P5 conference when they can make money hand over fist keeping us in The American.

Not like John Skipper is sitting in his office thinking of ways to screw us out of spite. He's looking to make money and if keeping us in the American was a way to do that, than tough luck.

When you view ESPN as a corporate entity it comes off an non-personal, just business as they want it to appear. But when you realize "ESPN" is just a collection of individual people sitting in conference rooms, you can quickly see how it very well could have personal undertones and motives veiled under the plethora of excuses we have heard regarding expansion over the years, or "just business". I mean you are probably right in the grand scheme of things but when you think back to how a few months ago ESPN's chairman or something went on to become the Syracuse AD you become skeptical again. It's like when JP Morgan or something similar hires politicians to nice armchair lobby jobs after serving their short terms. It must have been nice to have someone influential who has your back during all those realignment talks BEFORE it went public, giving your school a head start for the lifeboats.

 

[Exit 4]

I don't think anyone has ever argued that ESPN has done nothing to hurt UConn. I think people have made the argument that ESPN has nothing personal against UConn, which I don't think they do.

It's just business. ESPN has no reason to let us get into a P5 conference when they can make money hand over fist keeping us in The American.

Not like John Skipper is sitting in his office thinking of ways to screw us out of spite. He's looking to make money and if keeping us in the American was a way to do that, than tough luck.

I agree - except I do think that if this was Syracuse the top at ESPN would have been more conscience to help their alma mater avoid our fate. They may not have been successful, but I do think they would pull the strings they could.

 

[Big Calihouns]

Even in New England, NESN covers apparently overvalued BC more than the apparently undervalued UConn .How come ? Anyone got any possible explanations as to why it appears that even NESN is apparently " screwing over UConn " ? Does Diaco have a half hour weekly show televised throughout New England ? Why not ? BC stinks in football, but BC has a show on NESN each week with its coaches and players being interviewed. Is this NESN's fault too for " screwing over UConn " ? It could be. But if so, no reasons so far have been put forth for the " screwings ", as near as we can tell.

How come BC doesn't have the same exposure on SNY in the biggest media market in the country, but UConn does? Stop trolling. You're just as pathetic as you schools athletic dept.

 

[NYUConn]

When you view ESPN as a corporate entity it comes off an non-personal, just business as they want it to appear. But when you realize "ESPN" is just a collection of individual people sitting in conference rooms, you can quickly see how it very well could have personal undertones and motives veiled under the plethora of excuses we have heard regarding expansion over the years, or "just business". I mean you are probably right in the grand scheme of things but when you think back to how a few months ago ESPN's chairman or something went on to become the Syracuse AD you become skeptical again. It's like when JP Morgan or something similar hires politicians to nice armchair lobby jobs after serving their short terms. It must have been nice to have someone influential who has your back during all those realignment talks BEFORE it went public, giving your school a head start for the lifeboats.

I mean, by that logic you should take it personal every time your heating bill goes up in the winter because your local oil distributor lives in your community.

 

[Fishy]

The coverage of UConn athletics, on ESPN, major networks and regional sports networks, is far greater than the coverage of BC athletics.

It's not a point that can be debated so the usual ACC defenders are invited to leave the thread - we don't need you at the moment and you're adding nothing so sit this one out.

Clear? (Don't answer - just go.)

 

[BUConn10]

I mean, by that logic you should take it personal every time your heating bill goes up in the winter because your local oil distributor lives in your community.

That's a poor analogy. The oils distributor has no personal or historical qualms with me, plus he has no reason to plot against me. Not really sure how that example applies. Whatever

 

[Fairfield_1st]

Umm, contracts? NESN has a broadcast agreement with the ACC. They show BC games, but also show other ACC teams every weekend too.

I've also noticed ACC soccer games on there and of course, the ACC gets their own tab on their ticker.
Even though they're called NESN with the NE meaning New England, this station really should be called MSN. They are extremely Mass focused. I've seen them do profiles of kids in high school, but never one outside of Mass. I love catching all the Sox games on there and looking forward to a season of the Bruins, but outside of that it is unwatchable.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Umm, contracts? NESN has a broadcast agreement with the ACC. They show BC games, but also show other ACC teams every weekend too.

NESN contract however with the ACC does not include individual school's shows on NESN. These individual school's athletics shows were negotiated for New England audiences separately, between NESN and the individual schools. As such, BC and ND were able to negotiate weekly shows for themselves with NESN for New England audiences. There is absolutely nothing in a current AAC contract that prevents UConn from individually negotiating with NESN a show to televise a similar show for themselves on NESN for New England audiences. But UConn has failed to negotiate any such show for themselves for their football program in New England. One would just assume that UConn football fans would want to know why NESN is apparently " screwing UConn " too. Does UConn share any responsibility for not having a weekly football show on NESN at the present time ? If so, who at UConn ? Or is NESN just one more entity out to " screw UConn " by apparent intention.

 

[NYUConn]

NESN contract however with the ACC does not include individual school's shows on NESN. These individual school's athletics shows were negotiated for New England audiences separately, between NESN and the individual schools. As such, BC and ND were able to negotiate weekly shows for themselves with NESN for New England audiences. There is absolutely nothing in a current AAC contract that prevents UConn from individually negotiating with NESN a show to televise a similar show for themselves on NESN for New England audiences. But UConn has failed to negotiate any such show for themselves for their football program in New England. One would just assume that UConn football fans would want to know why NESN is apparently " screwing UConn " too. Yes ?... No ?

Kind of like how UConn has individual shows on SNY?

Congrats on your 30 minute "Inside BC Football" program on NESN every Tuesday night at 6:30. You've truly cornered the market on BC fans who have gotten home from work and have the channel on while preparing dinner before the Bruins game.

Go home dude.

 

[WestHartHusk]

NESN contract however with the ACC does not include individual school's shows on NESN. These individual school's athletics shows were negotiated for New England audiences separately, between NESN and the individual schools. As such, BC and ND were able to negotiate weekly shows for themselves with NESN for New England audiences. There is absolutely nothing in a current AAC contract that prevents UConn from individually negotiating with NESN a show to televise a similar show for themselves on NESN for New England audiences. But UConn has failed to negotiate any such show for themselves for their football program in New England. One would just assume that UConn football fans would want to know why NESN is apparently " screwing UConn " too. Does UConn share any responsibility for not having a weekly football show on NESN at the present time ? If so, who at UConn ?

We already have shows on SNY (14m households), which reaches significantly more viewers than NESN (4m household). So what is your point?

 

[Samoo]

Unfortunately networks don't pay for individual teams. So one XFL's teams ratings being better than the Browns is irrelevant if the NFL's rating collectively are still 50 times bigger than the XFL's collectively.

But not because of Wake. You aren't subsidizing Wake.

Note the context where UConn was just, on Monday, kept trapped in the AAC. This happened quite possibly due to backroom maneuvering of ESPN in order to keep paying cheaply for content for which they would otherwise need to pay market value.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Kind of like how UConn has individual shows on SNY?

Congrats on your 30 minute "Inside BC Football" program on NESN every Tuesday night at 6:30. You've truly cornered the market on BC fans who have gotten home from work and have the channel on while preparing dinner before the Bruins game.

Go home dude.

The question however is not how many people in New England watch the BC football program on NESN each week in the Fall ( few do ), the question that is germane to this thread is why nobody in New England watches a UConn football weekly program on NESN in New England, as Bob Diaco and his football program have no such NESN show in the fall for New England audiences. How come ? UConn is not a NY/ NJ school... they are a New England based school, in the N.E. state of Connecticut. Thus, UConn SHOULD have a UConn football devoted program on NESN in the fall, imo. Do you disagree ?