Who’s number 1 now?

[LOhunter]

Have you watched Stanford play this year? They literally have depth equivalent to Oregon at every position. Both are looking like they will be great and have plenty of depth. Stanford's depth has more experience though at this point. They are not only moving the ball at a higher level than Oregon (I've watched all games for each team), but they are defending at a much higher level than Oregon to this point. Not to say Oregon can't or won't get there, but having seen both in all games, I would take Stanford over Oregon at this point. They both have two of the deepest teams they've ever fielded, which says a lot given Stanford's history.

Difficult to understand why you believe that Stanford is defending at a "much higher level than Oregon at this point." It is only a couple of games into the season and even with all the new faces substituting through the game, Oregon has really focused on their defense and made it very difficult for the opposition to score. Looking forward to seeing Stanford and Oregon play early January and expect that game to clear a lot of the questions regarding who is deeper, plays better D and who is going to win the PAC this year.

 

[j66kicker]

Not sure if SOS rankings really matters right now - in the early portion of seasons, most top teams play a good portion of "cupcake" teams. Heck, even Connecticut has the 6th-ranked SOS in that ranking, and they haven't even played anyone yet, so what does it matter? I wonder if it has been updated since CT cancelled a number of games, including vs Louisville and Mississippi State. That had to administer a deep hit to their schedule strength, although they'll still play Baylor, Tennessee, and South Carolina on their non-conference schedule....

The linked Massey page says. "Using games thru Sun, Dec 6, 2020". The UConn page does not include the canceled Quinnipiac, Louisville & Mississippi State games, and does include the recently-added MA Lowell game. However it DOES include today's originally-scheduled Seton Hall game AND the 12/17 rescheduled Seton Hall date. ??

Massey Ratings - University of Connecticut Huskies

University of Connecticut Huskies scores and predictions for each game of the season's schedule

www.masseyratings.com

 

[soxfan23]

Oregon at 120th SOS
Stanford at 240th SOS
Baylor at 123rd SOS
Louisville at 139th SOS
NC State at 157th SOS
USC at 29th SOS

Not sure if SOS rankings really matters right now - in the early portion of seasons, most top teams play a good portion of "cupcake" teams. Heck, even Connecticut has the 6th-ranked SOS in that ranking, and they haven't even played anyone yet, so what does it matter? I wonder if it has been updated since CT cancelled a number of games, including vs Louisville and Mississippi State. That had to administer a deep hit to their schedule strength, although they'll still play Baylor, Tennessee, and South Carolina on their non-conference schedule....

It doesn't, it was sarcasm aimed at referencing Massey ratings 4 games into a season.

 

[saywho]

Difficult to understand why you believe that Stanford is defending at a "much higher level than Oregon at this point." It is only a couple of games into the season and even with all the new faces substituting through the game, Oregon has really focused on their defense and made it very difficult for the opposition to score. Looking forward to seeing Stanford and Oregon play early January and expect that game to clear a lot of the questions regarding who is deeper, plays better D and who is going to win the PAC this year.

I'm not saying Oregon did not play great D. I am just saying to this point, and yes we are only a few games in, having watched them Stanford looks to be better on defense through the first few games. That doesn't mean to diminish the defense of Oregon. I think they look to be one of the top 5 or 6 teams based on games I have seen thus far. Just from watching, my opinion is that Stanford looks to be a bit better on defense so far. Not predicting where they will be in 6 weeks just based on the few games that have been played.

 

[Figurehead]

I'm not saying Oregon did not play great D. I am just saying to this point, and yes we are only a few games in, having watched them Stanford looks to be better on defense through the first few games. That doesn't mean to diminish the defense of Oregon. I think they look to be one of the top 5 or 6 teams based on games I have seen thus far. Just from watching, my opinion is that Stanford looks to be a bit better on defense so far. Not predicting where they will be in 6 weeks just based on the few games that have been played.

Oregon held Utah to 43 points. The fewest points held by an Oregon team against a conference opponent since 2008-2009

 

[saywho]

Oregon held Utah to 43 points. The fewest points held by an Oregon team against a conference opponent since 2008-2009

Indeed. Their great defense is part of why I believe they are one of the top 5 or 6 teams in the country. I just said I think Stanford's defense is slightly ahead based on games that have been played so far. Totally cool for somebody to disagree. Just my opinion after watching their games thus far and not a diss on how Oregon is playing so far.

 

[Anchor Town]

No Stanford is very deep Too! They can hang with Oregon with their 3 point shooting too. they defend better than Oregon

If Stanford was as deep as you claim they wouldnt need Haley Jones to play 27 minutes a night against the garbage competition theyve faced so far.

 

[nwhoopfan]

If Stanford was as deep as you claim they wouldnt need Haley Jones to play 27 minutes a night against the garbage competition theyve faced so far.

11 players playing 10+ minutes per game (and the 12th is only off by a minute), 9 averaging about 15 minutes or more per game. I think you doth protest too much. Break down looks really similar to Oregon's.

 

[TheFarmFan]

If Stanford was as deep as you claim they wouldnt need Haley Jones to play 27 minutes a night against the garbage competition theyve faced so far.

Jones is coming off an injury and hadn't played a game since January. I suspect Tara wants to get her comfortable again after so much time away. Indeed, Jones said before her first game back she had pre-game jitters like the start of freshman year. Not worried at all about depth. Am worried about 3 point and free throw shooting, though...

 

[nwhoopfan]

I think your numbers are wrong @Anchor Town . I see 25.7 min/game for Haley Jones. For Oregon Paopao is at 23 and Boley and Mikesell at 22. Not really seeing a difference there.

 

[saywho]

If Stanford was as deep as you claim they wouldnt need Haley Jones to play 27 minutes a night against the garbage competition theyve faced so far.

Jones is playing 25 mins/gm right now. Her highest has been 27 mins, which was yesterday where she sat the entire 4th quarter. In the first three quarters, she scored 29 points and had 13 rebounds. The 4th quarter of all their games this year have been played by their bench. When somebody is shooting 14-15 from the field, you let them play 27 mins. Most coaches would let them play the whole game, but Tara did not.

You act like 25 mins a game is a lot. Ionescu played 34 mins per game last year. If Jones had been in 9 more mins last night, she would have been at 40 points. She shot 14-15 from the field with her only miss being a 3 pointer.

If you want to compare side by side:

Players with over 10 mins/gm:
Stanford - 11 (one at 9 mins which I am not counting)
Oregon - 12 (one at 10 mins which I am counting)

Players over 14 mins/gm
Stanford - 9
Oregon - 9

Players at or over 18 mins/gm:
Stanford - 4
Oregon - 6

Most minutes by any player on the team:
Stanford - 25.7
Oregon - 23

Players averaging over 10 pts a game:
Stanford - 4 (with Belibi at 9.7)
Oregon - 4 (with Paopao at 9.5)

Players averaging over 5 pts a game:
Stanford - 8
Oregon - 8

Highest player pts per game:
Stanford - 23.3 (Jones)
Oregon - 16.8 (Boley)

Number of players with over 5 rebounds a game:
Stanford - 4 (with Prechtel at 4.7)
Oregon - 3 (with Dugalic at 4.8)

Highest player rebounds per game:
Stanford - 10.3 (Jones)
Oregon - 7.8 (Sabally)

Players with 3+ assist per game:
Stanford - 3
Oregon - 1

Player with highest assists/gm:
Stanford - 4.3 (Jones with 2 other just behind her)
Oregon - 5 (Paopao with nobody behind her)

So, if you want to talk stats, there are the stats. Both have tons of depth. Seriously. Stanford has less players playing over 18 mins. They happen to have one really good player who is playing 25 mins a game and seems to be having a pretty great season so far. But they certainly aren't using her like most teams that have a player who can score 30 pt/gm easily.

And when it comes to the schedule, nobody is saying Stanford has played a hard schedule, nor has Oregon. Pretty equivalent there, too. Washington, Colorado, Utah -- all pac 12 bottom dwellers this year. Unfortunately COVID didn't allow Stanford to play WSU this year, but given they didn't have enough scholarship players to be eligible to play (the reason they didn't play), I imagine Stanford would have padded their stats just fine in that game. Portland? Seattle? Pretty on par with Cal Poly and UNLV.

 

[LOhunter]

Indeed. Their great defense is part of why I believe they are one of the top 5 or 6 teams in the country. I just said I think Stanford's defense is slightly ahead based on games that have been played so far. Totally cool for somebody to disagree. Just my opinion after watching their games thus far and not a diss on how Oregon is playing so far.

You first stated that Stanford was playing at a "much higher" level of D and now state "Stanford's defense is slightly ahead..." Everyone is entitled to an opinion and also to change it when they are wrong. Looking forward to their first matchup in 3 weeks.

 

[saywho]

You first stated that Stanford was playing at a "much higher" level of D and now state "Stanford's defense is slightly ahead..." Everyone is entitled to an opinion and also to change it when they are wrong. Looking forward to their first matchup in 3 weeks.

Stanford is playing a higher level of defense up til this point, in my opinion. Not sure changing the adjective fronting it is really changing my opinion. So, I will just stick to being blunt about my opinion without the adjectives

 

[Anchor Town]

Jones is playing 25 mins/gm right now. Her highest has been 27 mins, which was yesterday where she sat the entire 4th quarter. In the first three quarters, she scored 29 points and had 13 rebounds. The 4th quarter of all their games this year have been played by their bench. When somebody is shooting 14-15 from the field, you let them play 27 mins. Most coaches would let them play the whole game, but Tara did not.

You act like 25 mins a game is a lot. Ionescu played 34 mins per game last year. If Jones had been in 9 more mins last night, she would have been at 40 points. She shot 14-15 from the field with her only miss being a 3 pointer.

If you want to compare side by side:

Players with over 10 mins/gm:
Stanford - 11 (one at 9 mins which I am not counting)
Oregon - 12 (one at 10 mins which I am counting)

Players over 14 mins/gm
Stanford - 9
Oregon - 9

Players at or over 18 mins/gm:
Stanford - 4
Oregon - 6

Most minutes by any player on the team:
Stanford - 25.7
Oregon - 23

Players averaging over 10 pts a game:
Stanford - 4 (with Belibi at 9.7)
Oregon - 4 (with Paopao at 9.5)

Players averaging over 5 pts a game:
Stanford - 8
Oregon - 8

Highest player pts per game:
Stanford - 23.3 (Jones)
Oregon - 16.8 (Boley)

Number of players with over 5 rebounds a game:
Stanford - 4 (with Prechtel at 4.7)
Oregon - 3 (with Dugalic at 4.8)

Highest player rebounds per game:
Stanford - 10.3 (Jones)
Oregon - 7.8 (Sabally)

Players with 3+ assist per game:
Stanford - 3
Oregon - 1

Player with highest assists/gm:
Stanford - 4.3 (Jones with 2 other just behind her)
Oregon - 5 (Paopao with nobody behind her)

So, if you want to talk stats, there are the stats. Both have tons of depth. Seriously. Stanford has less players playing over 18 mins. They happen to have one really good player who is playing 25 mins a game and seems to be having a pretty great season so far. But they certainly aren't using her like most teams that have a player who can score 30 pt/gm easily.

And when it comes to the schedule, nobody is saying Stanford has played a hard schedule, nor has Oregon. Pretty equivalent there, too. Washington, Colorado, Utah -- all pac 12 bottom dwellers this year. Unfortunately COVID didn't allow Stanford to play WSU this year, but given they didn't have enough scholarship players to be eligible to play (the reason they didn't play), I imagine Stanford would have padded their stats just fine in that game. Portland? Seattle? Pretty on par with Cal Poly and UNLV.

Eh Nyara Sabally was 100% from the field the other day and was limited to just 21 minutes. Why play her more when the game is clearly in hand and your depth can get more experience. Stanford obviously feels they either needed to run up the score against lowly Washington or that Haley Jones needs more game experience.

And not sure what youre talking about re: Paopao but she is playing limited minutes because she has Chavez, Shelley, and Scherr behind her at the 1.

Graves on point guard Te-Hina Paopao:

“I thought Paopao showed that she has the chance to be an elite point guard. To do what she did in the limited minutes that she had was pretty special.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Eh Nyara Sabally was 100% from the field the other day and was limited to just 21 minutes. Why play her more when the game is clearly in hand and your depth can get more experience. Stanford obviously feels they either needed to run up the score against lowly Washington or that Haley Jones needs more game experience.

And not sure what youre talking about re: Paopao but she is playing limited minutes because she has Chavez, Shelley, and Scherr behind her at the 1.

Graves on point guard Te-Hina Paopao:

“I thought Paopao showed that she has the chance to be an elite point guard. To do what she did in the limited minutes that she had was pretty special.

I looked at game logs. Paopao has played 21, 23, 24 and 24 minutes. Jones has played 25, 25 and 27. Doesn't look like much difference to me. To say one is playing limited minutes and the other is playing too much does not compute. And as pointed out above both teams have played similarly weak schedules thus far.

 

[TheFarmFan]

Sorry, what are we debating? Which top 5 team is marginally deeper, with highly talented players as deep as the third string, or which has produced marginally better performances, among several probable All-American candidates?

Me, I'm just delighted there's so much good basketball to be seen on the Best Coast. I'd LOVE 3 years of debating whether Sabally's or Jones's near perfect games are more impressive. We're already winning if this the best one can split hairs.

 

[willtalk]

Statistically UConn is playing the best defense so far this year. They have not allowed a single point scored against them. You can not get any better than that.

 

[Lorcan]

Statistically UConn is playing the best defense so far this year. They have not allowed a single point scored against them. You can not get any better than that.

I beg to differ. Northwestern hasn’t been scored on yet this year. Clearly, their defense is better than UConn’s. Florida A&M might well have the best defense in the nation since I can guarantee they won’t be scored on this year with their ironclad defense.

 

[Tonyc]

Right now I dont care whos number 1 in the polls. UConn has the best team in WCBB and thats it as far as I am concerned. We wont know how good they are right now however the future is right around the corner and Im dying just waiting for the weekend to start.

 

[Flyinsouth]

This season more than most, we will need to get at least 10-15 games in to see what teams are really capable of. There are teams that have yet to play their first game going up against teams several games in and teams that will be missing key players and key practice time due to Covid restrictions. These factors can severely skew statistics and trends early on.

 

[DefenseBB]

Its all up in the air. Nobody looks unbeatable to me and it’s really not worth ranking until more top 25 teams start playing more top 25 teams. Everybody looks like a national champion beating up on Wichita Directional Academy. When you play teams that match your ability then your flaws are exposed... as we’ve already seen with SC and others.

Kind of self-serving comment coming from a "juggernaut" team that just lost to an underrated NC State team...Of course you have to say that, otherwise you can't justify a #1 rank or banner...

Having watched Stanford twice and Oregon once, I would say that @Floridaduck is "DaffyDuck" as Stanford IS Deeper than Oregon and has as much experience OR MORE than Oregon.
This Stanford team could be unbeatable if Tara can get over the last 28 years of big game stinkers once she gets to the Final Four. To be fair, to me, this is her deepest team ever. Time will tell.

Edit-Floridaduck's comment so flustered me, I did some research. Oregon has exactly 4 players who played previous to this year, with 1 (Mikesell) elsewhere. That means they have a grand total of 80 combined starts for Oregon (76 by Boley). Meanwhile, Stanford, returns 10 Players with 254 starts combined. But yeah, Oregon is as experienced as Stanford...

 

[Floridaduck]

Edit-Floridaduck's comment so flustered me, I did some research. Oregon has exactly 4 players who played previous to this year, with 1 (Mikesell) elsewhere. That means they have a grand total of 80 combined starts for Oregon (76 by Boley). Meanwhile, Stanford, returns 10 Players with 254 starts combined. But yeah, Oregon is as experienced as Stanford...
[/QUOTE]
Sorry to confuse you. The comment I quibbled about was "deeper". I also posted that Stanford depth is more experienced (by far) and the Card is certainly favored to win the Pac 12. Oregon does appear to have 12 players capable of playing successfully at the Pac 12 level. As does Stanford. Two very deep benches giving both coaches injury insurance, versatility, and match up combinations.

Stanford has the more experienced bench and players have been coached up and played together enough to mesh on offense and defense.

As a team Oregon is a work in progress that way. But that doesn't negate the fact that Oregon is 12 deep... equal in depth, not less deep. We'll see how it all works out.
Stanford is #1 and the Pac-12 favorite without a doubt.

 

[LOhunter]

Edit-Floridaduck's comment so flustered me, I did some research. Oregon has exactly 4 players who played previous to this year, with 1 (Mikesell) elsewhere. That means they have a grand total of 80 combined starts for Oregon (76 by Boley). Meanwhile, Stanford, returns 10 Players with 254 starts combined. But yeah, Oregon is as experienced as Stanford...

Sorry to confuse you. The comment I quibbled about was "deeper". I also posted that Stanford depth is more experienced (by far) and the Card is certainly favored to win the Pac 12. Oregon does appear to have 12 players capable of playing successfully at the Pac 12 level. As does Stanford. Two very deep benches giving both coaches injury insurance, versatility, and match up combinations.

Stanford has the more experienced bench and players have been coached up and played together enough to mesh on offense and defense.

As a team Oregon is a work in progress that way. But that doesn't negate the fact that Oregon is 12 deep... equal in depth, not less deep. We'll see how it all works out.
Stanford is #1 and the Pac-12 favorite without a doubt.
[/QUOTE]
“Pac 12 favorite without a doubt?” Seems like there is plenty of doubt being expressed by others. Experience is over-rated as a barometer for success in college basketball, especially when you are talking about elite recruits. No one can argue that Oregon has the fewest returning starters, fewest players with Pac 12 experience, fewest players with college game experience in the Pac 12 and perhaps in the entire NCAA. Yet they are clearly an elite team and I argue that there are less than a half dozen teams (including Stanford) who have any chance of beating them.

 

[Floridaduck]

Yet they are clearly an elite team and I argue that there are less than a half dozen teams (including Stanford) who have any chance of beating them.

I have them at #6 but i will take #8 (LOL). Sunday's game at Corvallis is a real test and the wheels could come off playing such a high talent team. Looking forward to how the new players mesh in that one.

 

[Alydar]

Stanford is playing a higher level of defense up til this point, in my opinion. Not sure changing the adjective fronting it is really changing my opinion. So, I will just stick to being blunt about my opinion without the adjectives

To play a high level of defense a team needs to face a high level offense. Let me know when Stanford faces one.