OT: What's Next Celtics Fans...?

[HuskyHawk]

They have a lot of picks in this draft and maybe 2 in one of the next 2 drafts.

They will need more if it’s a rebuild

Not sure what a "rebuild" means really. There is no rebuild scenario. The ping pong balls are important on Tuesday.

I think people make too much of "stars" when evaluating the NBA. Every star was a non-star or a rookie at some point. Sure AD, Lebron and Durant were seen as sure things. But Harden? Leonard? Curry? Embiid? Giannis? There we all just guys who became stars. Sometimes not right away.

Tatum and Brown are very good players who could still become stars. Hayward is a very good player. Horford is a very good player. Smart and Morris are above average.

Ainge will shuffle the pieces and assets he has, including picks, and the team will compete for the East again next year.

 

[the Q]

Not sure what a "rebuild" means really. There is no rebuild scenario. The ping pong balls are important on Tuesday.

I think people make too much of "stars" when evaluating the NBA. Every star was a non-star or a rookie at some point. Sure AD, Lebron and Durant were seen as sure things. But Harden? Leonard? Curry? Embiid? Giannis? There we all just guys who became stars. Sometimes not right away.

Tatum and Brown are very good players who could still become stars. Hayward is a very good player. Horford is a very good player. Smart and Morris are above average.

Ainge will shuffle the pieces and assets he has, including picks, and the team will compete for the East again next year.

Harden was the 3rd overall pick.

Giannis was dubbed the player with the highest ceiling in his draft.

Leonard was an analytics guy who Fixed his slingshot form on his jumper.

Embiid would’ve been a Hakeem level prospect If not for his injury.

Curry is the amazing one to me. You read his scouting report and it’s totally fair and accurate. And yet it just didn’t matter.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Harden was the 3rd overall pick.

Giannis was dubbed the player with the highest ceiling in his draft.

Leonard was an analytics guy who Fixed his slingshot form on his jumper.

Embiid would’ve been a Hakeem level prospect If not for his injury.

Curry is the amazing one to me. You read his scouting report and it’s totally fair and accurate. And yet it just didn’t matter.

You are wrong on Giannis. I could argue that no other team was even interested in drafting him in the first round, but there was a little chatter from the Hawks. I don't think the Bucks even saw this coming in their most optimistic scenarios. I think they were hoping he could develop into a 12 and 8 forward that could play good D. No one saw him as a future all-star, much less whatever he is now.

Jokic was a second round pick.

Giannis was considered a poor pick by many experts at the time, and that was at 13. Jokic was a throwaway second round pick. Those two could be leading their teams into the NBA Finals this season.

In the 80's and 90's teams were getting a lot of picks wrong, and they were picking juniors and seniors and had a lot more resume to work with. Projecting 19 year old kids into NBA players is witchcraft at best. Don't get hung up on the draft picks.

 

[the Q]

You are wrong on Giannis. I could argue that no other team was even interested in drafting him in the first round, but there was a little chatter from the Hawks. I don't think the Bucks even saw this coming in their most optimistic scenarios. I think they were hoping he could develop into a 12 and 8 forward that could play good D. No one saw him as a future all-star, much less whatever he is now.

Jokic was a second round pick.

Giannis was considered a poor pick by many experts at the time, and that was at 13. Jokic was a throwaway second round pick. Those two could be leading their teams into the NBA Finals this season.

In the 80's and 90's teams were getting a lot of picks wrong, and they were picking juniors and seniors and had a lot more resume to work with. Projecting 19 year old kids into NBA players is witchcraft at best. Don't get hung up on the draft picks.

No I’m right. This convo has been done. He was consistently projected in the teens. He was raw but considered to have the highest upside. Pretty sure that was even mentioned on draft as well.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Harden was also traded, so as available as anyone (as was/is Kawhi). Lillard was a mid-first round pick, Jokic a 2nd rounder, Murray #7 and McCollum #10, Butler #30. There are impact players beyond the top-3. Embiid is the only top-3 draft pick that is the best guy (Simmons sucks on one of the 7 living playoff teams that was a top-3 pick for that team.
So it'd be nice if the Celtics had a top-3 pick this year or were able to trade for AD or Zion (pipe dream) but it is imminently possible that they find a championship piece amongst their bevy of picks this year (3 or 4) or next year (2 most likely). Five first rounders in next two years is very likely to yield one starter.
2019
Sacramento Kings’ top-1 protected pick
Memphis Grizzlies (If pick falls outside top-8)
Los Angeles Clippers (If pick falls outside top-14)
Own pick
2020
Memphis Grizzlies (If pick has not yet been conveyed and falls outside top-6)
Los Angeles Clippers (If pick has not yet been conveyed and falls outside top-14)
Own pick

 

[the Q]

Harden was also traded, so as available as anyone (as was/is Kawhi). Lillard was a mid-first round pick, Jokic a 2nd rounder, Murray #7 and McCollum #10, Butler #30. There are impact players beyond the top-3. Embiid is the only top-3 draft pick that is the best guy (Simmons sucks on one of the 7 living playoff teams that was a top-3 pick for that team.
So it'd be nice if the Celtics had a top-3 pick this year or were able to trade for AD or Zion (pipe dream) but it is imminently possible that they find a championship piece amongst their bevy of picks this year (3 or 4) or next year (2 most likely). Five first rounders in next two years is very likely to yield one starter.
2019
Sacramento Kings’ top-1 protected pick
Memphis Grizzlies (If pick falls outside top-8)
Los Angeles Clippers (If pick falls outside top-14)
Own pick
2020
Memphis Grizzlies (If pick has not yet been conveyed and falls outside top-6)
Los Angeles Clippers (If pick has not yet been conveyed and falls outside top-14)
Own pick

Lillard was like 6th overall. Hardly a mid first rounder.

And the clippers pick is conveyed. It’s happening this year

 

[navery12]

No I’m right. This convo has been done. He was consistently projected in the teens. He was raw but considered to have the highest upside. Pretty sure that was even mentioned on draft as well.

As someone who went down this road with him the last time it was brought up, don't bother. Facts don't matter

 

[HuskyHawk]

Lillard was like 6th overall. Hardly a mid first rounder.

And the clippers pick is conveyed. It’s happening this year

Clippers pick is locked in at #20 for 2019. Boston's own is #22. Sacramento is in the lottery so who knows. Boston is screwed if it is #1. 4.8% odds to be top 5. How the NBA draft lottery works: Zion favorites, new odds

 

[the Q]

Clippers pick is locked in at #20 for 2019. Boston's own is #22. Sacramento is in the lottery so who knows. Boston is screwed if it is #1. 4.8% odds to be top 5. How the NBA draft lottery works: Zion favorites, new odds

The kings tried really hard to screw everything up. The damn ping pong balls should fix that

 

[Dogdeacon]

No I’m right. This convo has been done. He was consistently projected in the teens. He was raw but considered to have the highest upside. Pretty sure that was even mentioned on draft as well.

Assuming you are right, it proves the point that the Celtics don't need to blow it up to rebuild. Yes some had Giannis with upside (it is unpossible to quantify the 'most' upside), others thought it a bad pick - but facts are what they are and he was picked AFTER so many guys. You mean to say every team that didn't pick Giannis acknowledged that Giannis had the most upside, yet chose someone else anyway?! C'mon - by nature of picking someone else, half the league didn't believe in Giannis or at a minimum believe it enough for it to be consensus. If it was, then he's the #1 pick! For example Philly, purposefully trying to tank and pick guys that wouldn't contribute right away chose MCW at 11. The freakin' Thunder could have undone their doom had they believed in Giannis over Steven Adams with pick #12 from Toronto via Houston via Harden trade debacle.

But IF you are right in any strange way, the Celtics will be able to get the guy with the highest upside in this draft with the Grizzlies pick at #9 (edited) or the Sacto pick at #14 (Giannis was actually picked 15th)!

 

[the Q]

Assuming you are right, it proves the point that the Celtics don't need to blow it up to rebuild. Yes some had Giannis with upside (it is unpossible to quantify the 'most' upside), others thought it a bad pick - but facts are what they are and he was picked AFTER so many guys. You mean to say every team that didn't pick Giannis acknowledged that Giannis had the most upside, yet chose someone else anyway?! C'mon - by nature of picking someone else, half the league didn't believe in Giannis or at a minimum believe it enough for it to be consensus. If it was, then he's the #1 pick! For example Philly, purposefully trying to tank and pick guys that wouldn't contribute right away chose MCW at 11. The freakin' Thunder could have undone their doom had they believed in Giannis over Steven Adams with pick #12 from Toronto via Houston via Harden trade debacle.

But IF you are right in any strange way, the Celtics will be able to get the guy with the highest upside in this draft with the Grizzlies pick at #8 or the Sacto pick at #14 (Giannis was actually picked 15th)!

It’s risk/reward. Depends how much risk teams want to assume.

No one wants the next Fran Vasquez

 

[the Q]

Assuming you are right, it proves the point that the Celtics don't need to blow it up to rebuild. Yes some had Giannis with upside (it is unpossible to quantify the 'most' upside), others thought it a bad pick - but facts are what they are and he was picked AFTER so many guys. You mean to say every team that didn't pick Giannis acknowledged that Giannis had the most upside, yet chose someone else anyway?! C'mon - by nature of picking someone else, half the league didn't believe in Giannis or at a minimum believe it enough for it to be consensus. If it was, then he's the #1 pick! For example Philly, purposefully trying to tank and pick guys that wouldn't contribute right away chose MCW at 11. The freakin' Thunder could have undone their doom had they believed in Giannis over Steven Adams with pick #12 from Toronto via Houston via Harden trade debacle.

But IF you are right in any strange way, the Celtics will be able to get the guy with the highest upside in this draft with the Grizzlies pick at #8 or the Sacto pick at #14 (Giannis was actually picked 15th)!

And he’s there are exceptions. But you don’t want to live on the edges.

It’s more like care counting.

 

[Lefty2one]

Dolan hasnt made a basketball decision in 6 years.That narrative is tired. The Knicks front office has been nothing short of professional and savvy(see the mitchell robinson pick).

Knicks trolls are lazy. Anyone who believes Dolan still has a hand in basketball operations is an idiot. Does anyone with a brain think the Porzingis trade would have happened if Dolan was still involved? That move was the antithesis of every Knicks move since Dolan bought the team.

 

[the Q]

Knicks trolls are lazy. Anyone who believes Dolan still has a hand in basketball operations is an idiot. Does anyone with a brain think the Porzingis trade would have happened if Dolan was still involved? That move was the antithesis of every Knicks move since Dolan bought the team.

I’d bet the farm Dolan still signed off on it

 

[Lefty2one]

Why would the Pels trade AD for Tatum and the Celtics young overrated pieces? The picks they have aren't likely to be top 5.

I'm not a Celtics fan but there really isn't going to be a great package out there for the Pels, unless something crazy shakes out in the lottery. The Lakers are pretty much out of it given Ingram's questionable long-term health. The Knicks or Bulls are probably the only other team that could put together a decent package if they land in the Top 3 of the lottery.

CHI: Some combination of Markkanen, Lavine, Carter, a 2019 Top 3 pick, future picks.
NYK: Mitch, Knox, this year's pick, future picks.

I’d bet the farm Dolan still signed off on it

Well of course, every owner has to sign off on every major move. He even said so in an interview; the deal came across his desk and he signed it without hesitation. If he was actually making decisions he absolutely vetos that deal.

 

[the Q]

I'm not a Celtics fan but there really isn't going to be a great package out there for the Pels, unless something crazy shakes out in the lottery. The Lakers are pretty much out of it given Ingram's questionable long-term health. The Knicks or Bulls are probably the only other team that could put together a decent package if they land in the Top 3 of the lottery.

CHI: Some combination of Markkanen, Lavine, Carter, a 2019 Top 3 pick, future picks.
NYK: Mitch, Knox, this year's pick, future picks.




Well of course, every owner has to sign off on every major move. He even said so in an interview; the deal came across his desk and he signed it without hesitation. If he was actually making decisions he absolutely vetos that deal.

And neither of those destinations will get a long term commitment without a lot of other shoes dropping. Cause neither is a potential winner without a lot more work after that.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm not a Celtics fan but there really isn't going to be a great package out there for the Pels, unless something crazy shakes out in the lottery. The Lakers are pretty much out of it given Ingram's questionable long-term health. The Knicks or Bulls are probably the only other team that could put together a decent package if they land in the Top 3 of the lottery.

CHI: Some combination of Markkanen, Lavine, Carter, a 2019 Top 3 pick, future picks.
NYK: Mitch, Knox, this year's pick, future picks.




Well of course, every owner has to sign off on every major move. He even said so in an interview; the deal came across his desk and he signed it without hesitation. If he was actually making decisions he absolutely vetos that deal.

The lottery will tell us a lot. If the Pelicans get a top 2 pick, maybe Davis stays. If Boston somehow gets a top 5 from Sacramento, maybe that plus players and the #20 is enough for New Orleans? But do they do it if AD won't extend? Lots of unanswered questions.

 

[the Q]

The lottery will tell us a lot. If the Pelicans get a top 2 pick, maybe Davis stays. If Boston somehow gets a top 5 from Sacramento, maybe that plus players and the #20 is enough for New Orleans? But do they do it if AD won't extend? Lots of unanswered questions.

You can’t trade for Davis unless Kyrie resigns first.

You tell him, here’s the Max.

Here’s who will he gone next year.

Here’s brow.

In or out?

It’s pretty simple for Boston.

If he can’t commit to that, idk how you make a deal.

 

[InKembaITrust]

You can’t trade for Davis unless Kyrie resigns first.

You tell him, here’s the Max.

Here’s who will he gone next year.

Here’s brow.

In or out?

It’s pretty simple for Boston.

If he can’t commit to that, idk how you make a deal.

Yeah I'd have to agree with this.

It is pretty straight forward for Kyrie. As unlikable as he was in the playoffs this year, he is very liked around the league so at the very least he'll attract big name players.

Could KD be in the cards as well?

 

[HuskyHawk]

You can’t trade for Davis unless Kyrie resigns first.

You tell him, here’s the Max.

Here’s who will he gone next year.

Here’s brow.

In or out?

It’s pretty simple for Boston.

If he can’t commit to that, idk how you make a deal.

Yeah. I just don't see it happening. I think Kyrie is gone, and they will move on from attempting to get Davis. But I think Ainge will try to trade for somebody else. Somebody unexpected.
This was interesting. Jaylen Brown vs. Jayson Tatum: NBA coaches, GMs weigh in on trade value of Celtics youngsters

 

[Lefty2one]

And neither of those destinations will get a long term commitment without a lot of other shoes dropping. Cause neither is a potential winner without a lot more work after that.

Right, which makes the Pels' job even more difficult.

I don't think it makes sense for many teams to go after AD, which is really weird considering he's one of the best seven or so players in the league. No team wants to repeat with the Knicks did with Carmelo--Boston or NY or CHI gutting their roster to get AD is pointless in the grand scheme of things. Even if the Knicks signed KD and traded for AD, that team isn't good enough to contend after shipping out most of their other pieces to get AD. Plus, we're far enough into AD's career that you can't help but question his impact on winning. For all his individual greatness, his teams in NO have underachieved. Big men don't have the impact they once did due to how today's game is played.

For all the flack Kyrie is getting, I'd still rather have the Knicks get KD and Kyrie (I'm fine with Kyrie as your #2, just not as a #1) than any scenario involving AD. I don't think it's going to happen, despite all the smoke, but it's fun to dream.

 

[the Q]

Right, which makes the Pels' job even more difficult.

I don't think it makes sense for many teams to go after AD, which is really weird considering he's one of the best seven or so players in the league. No team wants to repeat with the Knicks did with Carmelo--Boston or NY or CHI gutting their roster to get AD is pointless in the grand scheme of things. Even if the Knicks signed KD and traded for AD, that team isn't good enough to contend after shipping out most of their other pieces to get AD. Plus, we're far enough into AD's career that you can't help but question his impact on winning. For all his individual greatness, his teams in NO have underachieved. Big men don't have the impact they once did due to how today's game is played.

For all the flack Kyrie is getting, I'd still rather have the Knicks get KD and Kyrie (I'm fine with Kyrie as your #2, just not as a #1) than any scenario involving AD. I don't think it's going to happen, despite all the smoke, but it's fun to dream.

The Knicks can get all 3. It’s possible

 

[Lefty2one]

It is, then you're filling the roster with vet min contracts. It'd be an even tougher situation than it was with first year of the Heatles. But that'd a good problem to have.

 

[the Q]

It is, then you're filling the roster with vet min contracts. It'd be an even tougher situation than it was with first year of the Heatles. But that'd a good problem to have.

You’d also probably have someone on the MLe and the biannual excpetion.

Plus someone held over from last year....maybe.

 

[InKembaITrust]

Right, which makes the Pels' job even more difficult.

I don't think it makes sense for many teams to go after AD, which is really weird considering he's one of the best seven or so players in the league. No team wants to repeat with the Knicks did with Carmelo--Boston or NY or CHI gutting their roster to get AD is pointless in the grand scheme of things. Even if the Knicks signed KD and traded for AD, that team isn't good enough to contend after shipping out most of their other pieces to get AD. Plus, we're far enough into AD's career that you can't help but question his impact on winning. For all his individual greatness, his teams in NO have underachieved. Big men don't have the impact they once did due to how today's game is played.

For all the flack Kyrie is getting, I'd still rather have the Knicks get KD and Kyrie (I'm fine with Kyrie as your #2, just not as a #1) than any scenario involving AD. I don't think it's going to happen, despite all the smoke, but it's fun to dream.

I'm sorry, but if you can get Anthony Davis you get Anthony Davis.

Easily a top 5 NBA player. For the minimal games he played this season he went 26/12/4 with 2.5 blks and 80% from the FT line. Not to mention he's 26 years old, giving him a minimum of 7 solid years left barring any injuries.

I agree with you that there's always a risk investing in a player that is technically a 1 year rental, but Davis has already been quoted saying his legacy is far more important to him than the $. If Boston surrounds him with a winning cast and they make it to the finals his first year, why wouldn't he stay?

AD brought a below-average Pelicans team to the playoffs last year, swept the first series, and averaged 30/13.5/2/2, while shooting 83% from the FT line. He's a franchise-changing player on a big market team like the Celts. AD's style of play fits today's NBA perfectly because he can stretch the floor, hit the outside shot, and put the ball on the floor.

AD, Jokic, and Embiid are the best big men (Centers) next year and fit perfectly in today's NBA.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Knicks trolls are lazy. Anyone who believes Dolan still has a hand in basketball operations is an idiot. Does anyone with a brain think the Porzingis trade would have happened if Dolan was still involved? That move was the antithesis of every Knicks move since Dolan bought the team.

I'm certainly not lazy, but I do think trolling the Knicks fans with Dolan history & videos is valid UNTIL something goes right - like say winning basketball games. Can we wait for that until we crown your azzes?

I get they have salary cap space, but that in and of itself is nothing. Knick fans are morphing into Sixer Process truthers right before our eyes. I can understand Knicks fans buying in moreso than Sixers fans because the Knicks have been unintentionally bad, so its a fan psyche that justifiable should grab onto any hope. Its jumping the gun to say they are in great shape until the draft and free agency play out.

I'm honestly really hoping the Knicks get the #1 pick and Zion and at least one superstar free agent (KD). I love the karma of bringing frozen envelope Patrick Ewing to the lottery. I think it'd be great for basketball in general if the Knicks matter. I've been in Boston for 25yrs and other than the 'Honey Nut Cheerios incident', there really hasn't been a NY-Boston basketball rivalry during that time which is a crying shame. Sorry, but I blame the guy that's been in charge.

A reasoned view of Porzingis trade

 

[Waquoit]

I was at the barbershop this week and Jalen Rose was on the tube giving examples of wide-open guys that Kyrie ignored while jacking up suboptimal, double-teamed shots. I can't see how they can bring this guy back.

 

[the Q]

I was at the barbershop this week and Jalen Rose was on the tube giving examples of wide-open guys that Kyrie ignored while jacking up suboptimal, double-teamed shots. I can't see how they can bring this guy back.

I mean...they did break up the lakers for doing that to Shaq in the 04 finals...so there is something to this.

But keeping kyrie and figuring out how to make that work better is will their best path to contender ship in the next few years

 

[Waquoit]

But keeping kyrie and figuring out how to make that work better is will their best path to contender ship in the next few years

The only hope I see is they can pair him with a LeBron-level talent like Davis or Durant. I don't think the status quo can be figured out.

 

[the Q]

The only hope I see is they can pair him with a LeBron-level talent like Davis or Durant. I don't think the status quo can be figured out.

This I agree with. He has zero respect for brown and Tatum.