OT: What's Next Celtics Fans...?

[RayIsTheGOAT]

Re-sign Kyrie
Trade whatever it takes for Anthony Davis

 

[Walker11]

Yes and no. Perry, the GM, and by all accounts the one making the basketball decisions now was not part of that front office.

Steve Mills made that call, he's Perry's boss, but seems to be letting Perry do his thing.

I think Perry signed on a week before but I get it. I just disagreed with the other guys sentiment

 

[Hugo]

Sort of. Brown starts at the shooting guard spot. He can guard them. 6’7” isn’t that unusual for a 2 in the NBA. Tatum and Hayward clearly overlap. Hayward is athletic enough to play as a big SG depending on matchups. They basically play 1-3-3-4-4 sometimes. That’s the way Steven’s system works. And as you said Morris can play as a 3.

Brown starts at the 2, but that's only because the Celts don't have a true shooting guard. He doesn't have a great handle and has trouble defending the quicker guards. I believe he's much better suited at the 3, but first they need to obtain an effective shooter at the 2 who can create their own shot. Then Brown can switch between the 2 and 3 depending on matchups.

 

[kemba]

I think Perry signed on a week before but I get it. I just disagreed with the other guys sentiment

Nope it was after. Mills was making decisions in the 2 weeks or so between Phil and Perry and in that time he managed to do the Hardaway contract and not only overpay Ron Baker of all people, but throw on a player option on top of it.

So he's right that since Perry has taken over they've done a good job stopping the circus, accumulating assets, and creating cap space. But at the same time, there are still people at the top who could mess everything up if they decide to interfere. And while Perry has done a good job of giving them the opportunity to get better through the draft and free agency, that's the easy part. Turning the picks and cap space into talent is the hard part. I believe the free agency smoke, but its still not a done deal. And remains to be seen if the front office can make the right decisions if KD doesn't work out.

 

[Cardiac]

Max out Kyrie, S&T Durant for Hayward

 

[Huskyforlife]

Why would the Pels trade AD for Tatum and the Celtics young overrated pieces? The picks they have aren't likely to be top 5.

Why would AD resign with Boston considering we all know kyrie is gone? What's left for him in Boston after everyone is traded and signs somewhere else?

If I were a Celtic fan, I'd admit our run is probably over. Cause Tatum and Brown as your best players ain't winning much, and there's hardly any cap space to sign anyone of significance.

 

[AntG168]

Yes, the same front office that gave 75 million to Tim Hardaway

no, thats not the same front office.......

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Max out Kyrie, S&T Durant for Hayward

What about Baines for Antetokuonmpo and Middleton?

 

[the Q]

Why would the Pels trade AD for Tatum and the Celtics young overrated pieces? The picks they have aren't likely to be top 5.

Why would AD resign with Boston considering we all know kyrie is gone? What's left for him in Boston after everyone is traded and signs somewhere else?

If I were a Celtic fan, I'd admit our run is probably over. Cause Tatum and Brown as your best players ain't winning much, and there's hardly any cap space to sign anyone of significance.

I get your point. There’s a few considerations:

1) how much are teams gonna put on Kyrie for stunting chemistry and tatums growth

And

2) who can present a better offer? Maybe the knicks if they offer Zion and Mitchell Robinson in a package.

 

[Kembacity]

I know I've basically seen Kemba's name never associated with the Celtics, but a month ago I had a dream that Kyrie walked to the Knicks and the Celtics signed Kemba, and regardless of the outcome otherwise I was happy as a pig in sheeeeet

 

[InKembaITrust]

Why would the Pels trade AD for Tatum and the Celtics young overrated pieces? The picks they have aren't likely to be top 5.

Why would AD resign with Boston considering we all know kyrie is gone? What's left for him in Boston after everyone is traded and signs somewhere else?

If I were a Celtic fan, I'd admit our run is probably over. Cause Tatum and Brown as your best players ain't winning much, and there's hardly any cap space to sign anyone of significance.

If Kyrie leaves, and Horford restructures his deal (which should happen), the Celtics have PLENTY of cap space to play around with.

I wouldn't say Kyrie is officially gone at this point. I'm at 60/40 he returns/leaves.

Tatum & Brown are 21 & 22 years old. With their talent, athleticism and early playoff experience these guys will be All Stars or borderline All Stars at worst for the rest of their careers.

If Kyrie stays is an AD trade inevitable?

 

[Walker11]

Horford isn't going to restructure to throw the Celtics a bone. If he declines his option he is looking for one last multiyear deal

 

[the Q]

If Kyrie leaves, and Horford restructures his deal (which should happen), the Celtics have PLENTY of cap space to play around with.

I wouldn't say Kyrie is officially gone at this point. I'm at 60/40 he returns/leaves.

Tatum & Brown are 21 & 22 years old. With their talent, athleticism and early playoff experience these guys will be All Stars or borderline All Stars at worst for the rest of their careers.

If Kyrie stays is an AD trade inevitable?

From the espn insider article.

If Irving, horford and Baynes all opt out, the Celtics would have only 13m in cap rood before accounting for Rozier or Morris.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Why would the Pels trade AD for Tatum and the Celtics young overrated pieces? The picks they have aren't likely to be top 5.

Why would AD resign with Boston considering we all know kyrie is gone? What's left for him in Boston after everyone is traded and signs somewhere else?

If I were a Celtic fan, I'd admit our run is probably over. Cause Tatum and Brown as your best players ain't winning much, and there's hardly any cap space to sign anyone of significance.

That's insane. Tatum took a step backwards this year, but JBrown actually figured it out and is getting better. It is totally reasonable to assume Tatum and Hayward will be much better next year and IF Horford comes back then you are looking for that one more piece that allows them to contend with Giannis and whoever else keeps a superstar (Raptors or Sixers). It didn't work with Kyrie, but because it did almost work with Isaiah 2yrs ago and literally nobody last year it is more than reasonable to take a step back but keep building with a lot of what you have.
Even the notion of start over ignores the actual facts, the Celtics already have a ton of draft picks - which is what you'd try to get to start over. So no they won't trade their younger players for more draft picks. They can do the opposite which is trade the draft picks for a player they think can be the final key piece. Just like how they acquired Tatum AND A PICK for Fultz.

 

[the Q]

That's insane. Tatum took a step backwards this year, but JBrown actually figured it out and is getting better. It is totally reasonable to assume Tatum and Hayward will be much better next year and IF Horford comes back then you are looking for that one more piece that allows them to contend with Giannis and whoever else keeps a superstar (Raptors or Sixers). It didn't work with Kyrie, but because it did almost work with Isaiah 2yrs ago and literally nobody last year it is more than reasonable to take a step back but keep building with a lot of what you have.
Even the notion of start over ignores the actual facts, the Celtics already have a ton of draft picks - which is what you'd try to get to start over. So no they won't trade their younger players for more draft picks. They can do the opposite which is trade the draft picks for a player they think can be the final key piece. Just like how they acquired Tatum AND A PICK for Fultz.

They have a lot of picks in this draft and maybe 2 in one of the next 2 drafts.

They will need more if it’s a rebuild

 

[HuskyHawk]

They have a lot of picks in this draft and maybe 2 in one of the next 2 drafts.

They will need more if it’s a rebuild

Not sure what a "rebuild" means really. There is no rebuild scenario. The ping pong balls are important on Tuesday.

I think people make too much of "stars" when evaluating the NBA. Every star was a non-star or a rookie at some point. Sure AD, Lebron and Durant were seen as sure things. But Harden? Leonard? Curry? Embiid? Giannis? There we all just guys who became stars. Sometimes not right away.

Tatum and Brown are very good players who could still become stars. Hayward is a very good player. Horford is a very good player. Smart and Morris are above average.

Ainge will shuffle the pieces and assets he has, including picks, and the team will compete for the East again next year.

 

[the Q]

Not sure what a "rebuild" means really. There is no rebuild scenario. The ping pong balls are important on Tuesday.

I think people make too much of "stars" when evaluating the NBA. Every star was a non-star or a rookie at some point. Sure AD, Lebron and Durant were seen as sure things. But Harden? Leonard? Curry? Embiid? Giannis? There we all just guys who became stars. Sometimes not right away.

Tatum and Brown are very good players who could still become stars. Hayward is a very good player. Horford is a very good player. Smart and Morris are above average.

Ainge will shuffle the pieces and assets he has, including picks, and the team will compete for the East again next year.

Harden was the 3rd overall pick.

Giannis was dubbed the player with the highest ceiling in his draft.

Leonard was an analytics guy who Fixed his slingshot form on his jumper.

Embiid would’ve been a Hakeem level prospect If not for his injury.

Curry is the amazing one to me. You read his scouting report and it’s totally fair and accurate. And yet it just didn’t matter.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Harden was the 3rd overall pick.

Giannis was dubbed the player with the highest ceiling in his draft.

Leonard was an analytics guy who Fixed his slingshot form on his jumper.

Embiid would’ve been a Hakeem level prospect If not for his injury.

Curry is the amazing one to me. You read his scouting report and it’s totally fair and accurate. And yet it just didn’t matter.

You are wrong on Giannis. I could argue that no other team was even interested in drafting him in the first round, but there was a little chatter from the Hawks. I don't think the Bucks even saw this coming in their most optimistic scenarios. I think they were hoping he could develop into a 12 and 8 forward that could play good D. No one saw him as a future all-star, much less whatever he is now.

Jokic was a second round pick.

Giannis was considered a poor pick by many experts at the time, and that was at 13. Jokic was a throwaway second round pick. Those two could be leading their teams into the NBA Finals this season.

In the 80's and 90's teams were getting a lot of picks wrong, and they were picking juniors and seniors and had a lot more resume to work with. Projecting 19 year old kids into NBA players is witchcraft at best. Don't get hung up on the draft picks.

 

[the Q]

You are wrong on Giannis. I could argue that no other team was even interested in drafting him in the first round, but there was a little chatter from the Hawks. I don't think the Bucks even saw this coming in their most optimistic scenarios. I think they were hoping he could develop into a 12 and 8 forward that could play good D. No one saw him as a future all-star, much less whatever he is now.

Jokic was a second round pick.

Giannis was considered a poor pick by many experts at the time, and that was at 13. Jokic was a throwaway second round pick. Those two could be leading their teams into the NBA Finals this season.

In the 80's and 90's teams were getting a lot of picks wrong, and they were picking juniors and seniors and had a lot more resume to work with. Projecting 19 year old kids into NBA players is witchcraft at best. Don't get hung up on the draft picks.

No I’m right. This convo has been done. He was consistently projected in the teens. He was raw but considered to have the highest upside. Pretty sure that was even mentioned on draft as well.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Harden was also traded, so as available as anyone (as was/is Kawhi). Lillard was a mid-first round pick, Jokic a 2nd rounder, Murray #7 and McCollum #10, Butler #30. There are impact players beyond the top-3. Embiid is the only top-3 draft pick that is the best guy (Simmons sucks on one of the 7 living playoff teams that was a top-3 pick for that team.
So it'd be nice if the Celtics had a top-3 pick this year or were able to trade for AD or Zion (pipe dream) but it is imminently possible that they find a championship piece amongst their bevy of picks this year (3 or 4) or next year (2 most likely). Five first rounders in next two years is very likely to yield one starter.
2019
Sacramento Kings’ top-1 protected pick
Memphis Grizzlies (If pick falls outside top-8)
Los Angeles Clippers (If pick falls outside top-14)
Own pick
2020
Memphis Grizzlies (If pick has not yet been conveyed and falls outside top-6)
Los Angeles Clippers (If pick has not yet been conveyed and falls outside top-14)
Own pick

 

[the Q]

Harden was also traded, so as available as anyone (as was/is Kawhi). Lillard was a mid-first round pick, Jokic a 2nd rounder, Murray #7 and McCollum #10, Butler #30. There are impact players beyond the top-3. Embiid is the only top-3 draft pick that is the best guy (Simmons sucks on one of the 7 living playoff teams that was a top-3 pick for that team.
So it'd be nice if the Celtics had a top-3 pick this year or were able to trade for AD or Zion (pipe dream) but it is imminently possible that they find a championship piece amongst their bevy of picks this year (3 or 4) or next year (2 most likely). Five first rounders in next two years is very likely to yield one starter.
2019
Sacramento Kings’ top-1 protected pick
Memphis Grizzlies (If pick falls outside top-8)
Los Angeles Clippers (If pick falls outside top-14)
Own pick
2020
Memphis Grizzlies (If pick has not yet been conveyed and falls outside top-6)
Los Angeles Clippers (If pick has not yet been conveyed and falls outside top-14)
Own pick

Lillard was like 6th overall. Hardly a mid first rounder.

And the clippers pick is conveyed. It’s happening this year

 

[navery12]

No I’m right. This convo has been done. He was consistently projected in the teens. He was raw but considered to have the highest upside. Pretty sure that was even mentioned on draft as well.

As someone who went down this road with him the last time it was brought up, don't bother. Facts don't matter

 

[HuskyHawk]

Lillard was like 6th overall. Hardly a mid first rounder.

And the clippers pick is conveyed. It’s happening this year

Clippers pick is locked in at #20 for 2019. Boston's own is #22. Sacramento is in the lottery so who knows. Boston is screwed if it is #1. 4.8% odds to be top 5. How the NBA draft lottery works: Zion favorites, new odds

 

[the Q]

Clippers pick is locked in at #20 for 2019. Boston's own is #22. Sacramento is in the lottery so who knows. Boston is screwed if it is #1. 4.8% odds to be top 5. How the NBA draft lottery works: Zion favorites, new odds

The kings tried really hard to screw everything up. The damn ping pong balls should fix that

 

[Dogdeacon]

No I’m right. This convo has been done. He was consistently projected in the teens. He was raw but considered to have the highest upside. Pretty sure that was even mentioned on draft as well.

Assuming you are right, it proves the point that the Celtics don't need to blow it up to rebuild. Yes some had Giannis with upside (it is unpossible to quantify the 'most' upside), others thought it a bad pick - but facts are what they are and he was picked AFTER so many guys. You mean to say every team that didn't pick Giannis acknowledged that Giannis had the most upside, yet chose someone else anyway?! C'mon - by nature of picking someone else, half the league didn't believe in Giannis or at a minimum believe it enough for it to be consensus. If it was, then he's the #1 pick! For example Philly, purposefully trying to tank and pick guys that wouldn't contribute right away chose MCW at 11. The freakin' Thunder could have undone their doom had they believed in Giannis over Steven Adams with pick #12 from Toronto via Houston via Harden trade debacle.

But IF you are right in any strange way, the Celtics will be able to get the guy with the highest upside in this draft with the Grizzlies pick at #9 (edited) or the Sacto pick at #14 (Giannis was actually picked 15th)!