What do you think about the one year audition for KO?

[8893]

Yesterday, a buddy related a study that indicated people from the midwest struggle with irony and are more or less likely to take things at face value. People from the northeast love word play, double meanings, irony and so forth.

Interesting. That description of mid-westerners is the same that is said of toddlers; i.e., they tend to be very concrete and not capable of abstraction or able to appreciate, detect or understand sarcasm. But as the brain matures, it enables more of those higher-order processes. Could make for a fascinating political study.

 

[DogMania]

Here's the thing...I don't share you're view of the fan base. I'm not actually sure there is all that big a UConn fan base. There is a Jim Calhoun fan base for sure. And if Ollie regularly puts up 19-13, 20-12 it will take 5 plus years before the fan base gets that he's mediocre. The very idea that a major power is giving the head coaching job to someone with virtually no coaching experience is crazy and everyone knows it. If this were North Carolina you'd all be shocked and likely making fun of them. This is more like a move they'd make at a D3 school, not at a 3 time national champion D-1 program. But virtually everyone defers to Calhoun...when his idea is beyond strange. And if Ollie is 19-13, we'll be hearing he's just a year away for a decade before anyone says its time for a change.

Scooter, you just love throwing these wild things out there. I'm not even from CT and I didn't arrive here till after JC got the job, and I know that there has been an avid UConn fan base for years. Granted UConn was more a regional power before JC put it on the national map, but come on!!!! There is a huge UConn fan base here and around the country regardless to who is at the helm. Now if UConn slips and has a long run of futility then I'm sure some of the fan base will errode, but to say that it's more a JC fan base, you're out of your fricken mind!

 

[ctchamps]

Manuel is the AD of not just MBB, but all athletics. He obviously knew that replacing JC would take place during his tenure but I doubt he thought it would play out as it did and even if he saw that was one of the possible scenarios, I’m sure he was hoping it would go down that way. But even so, the challenge and pay was more than enough for him to take the job. Every time we get in the car, there’s a chance we’ll get into an accident. When we do, I doubt that any of us would say, “Yeah, I saw it coming before I got into the car! I had it all under control.”

I totally get this Dog. I don't argue that WM had multiple considerations in choosing the AD position, many of them valid in taking the job. But the replacement of JC was going to be the greatest challenge for any AD and the one to get the most scrutiny. Hathaway's replacement was going to be the one in this situation. I can't speak for WM, but he had to know this imo. Furthermore any AD worth his lick had to be aware of the difficulties of replacing a legend and the potential for input by this legend. Additionally Herbst made it public knowledge that she felt JC was not treated properly in the past and that treatment was going to change under here tenure. This was before the hire of the AD.

My strong feeling is that WM came to UConn knowing there existed the possibility of the events that just took place, was prepared for that possibility, and had a set of strategies ready. My argument is with people who felt JC caught WM off guard. He didn't.

Personally, I believe JC's lines of communications with the president of the university and the AD were not this good since the time of his hire, and maybe not even then. I strongly believe that the three of them and members of JC's staff were in discussion about how to approach this almost from the beginning of Herbst's arrival. Otherwise explain how RM was hired so quickly and GM agreed to stay for one year. Or explain why Miller has stayed with the program. He and Hobbs had better resumes than KO for advancement and Miller has been with JC as an assistant longer than the other two. I feel that, for once, the people with the capabilities and understanding of all the parameters and pitfalls worked things out in a reasonable and compromising fashion (even though personally I would have done the contract differently).

And like 8893, I believe that the decision on how to approach this was orchestrated to minimize the heat applied to either WM or KO. Unreasonable people will take any jabs at the hire if it struggles, but most people are reasonable and will understand the rational for the choice and be patient. Unfortunately most reasonable people aren't blowhards and the opinion of the blowhards are what we think is the position of most people. We just have to keep reminding ourselves of this.

 

[DogMania]

You do realize we are talking about doing a search last Spring, don't you? It was hypothetical. i.e. What if Calhoun hadn't retired in the Fall?

I don't follow you? Can you explain this in relation to what I posted. Are you trying to say if UConn had held a national search last spring that no one would have put their hat in the ring because they all would have believed KO would get the job? I'm confused. I really don't know what candidates would have shown interest. With the team no post season eligible it wouldn't have exactly been the best time to offer the position. But my frame of reference is within the realm of reality...unless you can put back time...of next spring. If Manuel does have a national search, depending on what other high major jobs also become available, and the health of our program and conference is at that time, we'll probably get some good candidates. As to one of the top ones many might want, I have no idea if one would take the job or not. If a good one does who does not have ties to UConn or the region, we will be prone to having to go through this again if that coach is successful here, because there are plenty of programs that will offer more money. This is one of the primary reasons I want someone who has ties to the program. Now I don't want just anyone. I don't want them to stick with someone isn't successful here. But I'd rather go down that road first and then if it doesn't seem that coach is up for the challenge then go outside the family. Once you do that you're susceptible to losing that coach to the highest bidder, which happens to most programs other than a small handful of storied programs.

 

[ctchamps]

Interesting. That description of mid-westerners is the same that is said of toddlers; i.e., they tend to be very concrete and not capable of abstraction or able to appreciate, detect or understand sarcasm. But as the brain matures, it enables more of those higher-order processes. Could make for a fascinating political study.

I would expect mid-westerners to be capable of changing if they moved to the northeast. If the study is accurate, it most likely indicates these people are unaware that others employ words in a manner other than face value. Toddlers and Boneyard posters on the other hand...........

 

[upstater]

Interesting. That description of mid-westerners is the same that is said of toddlers; i.e., they tend to be very concrete and not capable of abstraction or able to appreciate, detect or understand sarcasm. But as the brain matures, it enables more of those higher-order processes. Could make for a fascinating political study.

Mid-westerners are very different than Northeasterners, but danger danger danger: this is exactly what Europeans say about Americans and irony.

When I lived in the midwest (Michigan) I invited about 30 people over for a party starting at 8 pm. At about 7:40, I realized I needed to buy ice, so I ran to the corner store. When I got back to my place, not only were there about 15 people already at my door at around 10 of 8, but they were all waiting in line!!!

 

[upstater]

I don't follow you? Can you explain this in relation to what I posted. Are you trying to say if UConn had held a national search last spring that no one would have put their hat in the ring because they all would have believed KO would get the job? I'm confused. I really don't know what candidates would have shown interest. With the team no post season eligible it wouldn't have exactly been the best time to offer the position. But my frame of reference is within the realm of reality...unless you can put back time...of next spring. If Manuel does have a national search, depending on what other high major jobs also become available, and the health of our program and conference is at that time, we'll probably get some good candidates. As to one of the top ones many might want, I have no idea if one would take the job or not. If a good one does who does not have ties to UConn or the region, we will be prone to having to go through this again if that coach is successful here, because there are plenty of programs that will offer more money. This is one of the primary reasons I want someone who has ties to the program. Now I don't want just anyone. I don't want them to stick with someone isn't successful here. But I'd rather go down that road first and then if it doesn't seem that coach is up for the challenge then go outside the family. Once you do that you're susceptible to losing that coach to the highest bidder, which happens to most programs other than a small handful of storied programs.

I was responding to someone who said that Calhoun stuck Manuel in this position by resigning in the Fall and sticking him with Ollie. I said that, had a search taken place in spring, it would have resulted in the same coach hired, unless Ollie had been excluded from consideration. I don't believe a search last spring with Ollie as a candidate would have been encouraging for other prospective hires because no one wants to be passed over for an inside candidate. The realm of reality has little to do with this hypothetical since we were discussing the importance or significance of Calhoun's timing.

 

[huskymedic]

Mid-westerners are very different than Northeasterners, but danger danger danger: this is exactly what Europeans say about Americans and irony.

When I lived in the midwest (Michigan) I invited about 30 people over for a party starting at 8 pm. At about 7:40, I realized I needed to buy ice, so I ran to the corner store. When I got back to my place, not only were there about 15 people already at my door at around 10 of 8, but they were all waiting in line!!!

Hell, in the Northeast, we would have let ourselves in, put what we wanted on the TV/Stereo and already cracked a few.

 

[Waquoit]

And like 8893, I believe that the decision on how to approach this was orchestrated to minimize the heat applied to either WM or KO.

Of course, that same point was made over a month ago in this remarkably prescient post. Funny how somethings that are roundly derided originally become the conventional wisdom. But now we know why the decision was made when it was, because the timing of it put millions more dollars in JC's pocket. I get it now, I don't blame him. But what's bothering me in this thread is the continued insistence that JC did what he did solely out of his love for UConn. That's nonsense, he did what was best for JC. And if that becomes what's best for UConn as well, so much the better. All I can say is that it's comical the way some are calling the AD words like egomaniac (for doing his job) while insisting JC is being totally altruistic.

Like what was said in that RPP, Ollie is being given every chance to succeed. He won't be judged by the W's and L's. He needs to show that he can run a tight, professional ship. Will the players go to class, can he manage the off-court responsibilities of a HC? There is no reason to think he can't, but doing is more important than saying.

 

[Waquoit]

Or explain why Miller has stayed with the program. He and Hobbs had better resumes than KO for advancement and Miller has been with JC as an assistant longer than the other two.

That's easy, name another job Miller can get that's pays as much and has as great a lifestyle? And I would argue that he and Hobbs "had better resumes than KO for advancement. " Their resumes both include being canned from their last HC position. That's a huge minus that trumps their HC experience. No way they were ever in mix. If you were going to hire from the mid-majors, there are guys that you could get that are successful today as opposed to being fired yesterday. That is a big reason why KO was annointed, he was the only guy from the JC tree that could pass muster today.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

Here's the thing...I don't share you're view of the fan base. I'm not actually sure there is all that big a UConn fan base. There is a Jim Calhoun fan base for sure. And if Ollie regularly puts up 19-13, 20-12 it will take 5 plus years before the fan base gets that he's mediocre. The very idea that a major power is giving the head coaching job to someone with virtually no coaching experience is crazy and everyone knows it. If this were North Carolina you'd all be shocked and likely making fun of them. This is more like a move they'd make at a D3 school, not at a 3 time national champion D-1 program. But virtually everyone defers to Calhoun...when his idea is beyond strange. And if Ollie is 19-13, we'll be hearing he's just a year away for a decade before anyone says its time for a change.

I just have no idea where you're getting the idea that this fanbase would accept mediocrity considering that we haven't seen consistent mediocrity since Jim Calhoun arrived (almost 2 out of every 3 Calhoun teams won 23 games or more). I know not every Uconn fan hangs out at the Boneyard but half the posters here are ready to jump off a bridge every time we lose a single game.

Assuming that Ollie gets an extension, I think the fanbase will obviously cut him a lot of slack this year and probably next year too since we can't say for sure that the roster will look that much better in 2014 (and the 1 year contract is a built-in excuse in the event that this recruiting class is only so-so). But as soon as he gets that extension, people are going to expect big-time recruiting classes first and foremost. If he recruits well and still only wins 19 games, it won't be long until the "great recruiter, lousy coach" narrative takes off in full force.

 

[upstater]

That's easy, name another job Miller can get that's pays as much and has as great a lifestyle? And I would argue that he and Hobbs "had better resumes than KO for advancement. " Their resumes both include being canned from their last HC position. That's a huge minus that trumps their HC experience. No way they were ever in mix. If you were going to hire from the mid-majors, there are guys that you could get that are successful today as opposed to being fired yesterday. That is a big reason why KO was annointed, he was the only guy from the JC tree that could pass muster today.

And yet Hobbs at his mid-major was at least ranked as high as the top 5 in the later years. Stick around a school like GW for 10 years, and you'll get fired too!

 

[8893]

Of course, that same point was made over a month ago in this remarkably prescient post. Funny how somethings that are roundly derided originally become the conventional wisdom. But now we know why the decision was made when it was, because the timing of it put millions more dollars in JC's pocket. I get it now, I don't blame him. But what's bothering me in this thread is the continued insistence that JC did what he did solely out of his love for UConn. That's nonsense, he did what was best for JC. And if that becomes what's best for UConn as well, so much the better. All I can say is that it's comical the way some are calling the AD words like egomaniac (for doing his job) while insisting JC is being totally altruistic.

That you could describe that post as "prescient" and "roundly derided" is comical. And deluded. My reply, like many others, was full agreement that I was thinking the same (and I had a couple lingering doubts, that I explained).

As to how people here feel about the way it shook out, you have supplied the words "solely" and "totally altruistic" to push those who merely give JC the benefit of the doubt to the extreme of being sycophants and blind followers; while you take the other extreme of viewing him as solely motivated by greed and ego. Did it ever occur to you that, as with most things in life, it's not black and white, but somewhere in the middle? Like, maybe JC actually believes that it is the best thing for UConn, but, like most any other human being, he also considers what is best for himself and his family when making such a decision?

Of course JC thinks he knows better than anyone else. No, he's not always right. Gee, sounds a lot like a lot of us, doesn't he? Well, it just so happens that he's been right more often than not in my experience, and he's a guy I've met a few times and have had a lot of opportunity to observe over a few decades. I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt because he's earned it with me. I think many others feel the same. You see his flaws and reach a different conclusion because they predominate the man for you. That's life. If I chose to define people by their few flaws rather than their body of work I'd find it pretty miserable, personally. And lonely.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

I donno. In this case throw the job titles out the window.

Ask yourself this: who do you think would be a better judge of what it takes to win at UConn, Jim Calhoun or Warde Manuel?

No doubt Warde Manuel is far better qualified to find a fit for every other position in the athletic department. But I have to say, if I was forced to choose, I think Calhoun has a better shot of finding a worthwhile candidate than Manuel.

Sorry Warde. I still love ya.

 

[Waquoit]

And yet Hobbs at his mid-major was at least ranked as high as the top 5 in the later years. Stick around a school like GW for 10 years, and you'll get fired too!

I'm surprised you miss the point. It wasn't that Hobbs didn't do a good job at GW. We know he did. But his ultimate sacking disqualifies him from getting a top-tier HC job like UConn at this time.

 

[freescooter]

I donno. In this case throw the job titles out the window.

Ask yourself this: who do you think would be a better judge of what it takes to win at UConn, Jim Calhoun or Warde Manuel?

No doubt Warde Manuel is far better qualified to find a fit for every other position in the athletic department. But I have to say, if I was forced to choose, I think Calhoun has a better shot of finding a worthwhile candidate than Manuel.

Sorry Warde. I still love ya.

Here's the problem with that line of thinking...Calhoun wasn't looking for the best guy to win at UConn. he simply wasn't and he stated as much on a number of occasions. He was looking for the best "UConn guy" or rather the best "Calhoun guy." That is a significant narrowing of the field. by the way we are seeing a similar narrowing of the field in the selection of assistants. I mean over the years UConn has actually had good assistant coaches who didn't play for UConn. Tom Moore, Howie in the early years. Andre laFluer before his "unfortunate incident" It isn't so outrageous to think that a slightly different point of view might be worth having.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Here's the problem with that line of thinking...Calhoun wasn't looking for the best guy to win at UConn. he simply wasn't and he stated as much on a number of occasions. He was looking for the best "UConn guy" or rather the best "Calhoun guy."

I'd love to see quotes. Forgive me for not taking your word here.

 

[8893]

Here's the problem with that line of thinking...Calhoun wasn't looking for the best guy to win at UConn. he simply wasn't and he stated as much on a number of occasions.

I have not heard or read of him stating anything to this effect on any occasion. Not saying he didn't; I just haven't heard or seen it. Can you please refer me to any instance in which he did?

 

[freescooter]

I have not heard or read of him stating anything to this effect on any occasion. Not saying he didn't; I just haven't heard or seen it. Can you please refer me to any instance in which he did?

Now you guys are really really being disingenuous. You think all his talk about keeping it "in the family" meant he was going to give his wife Pat the job? Come on. Unbelievable!

 

[upstater]

Now you guys are really really being disingenuous. You think all his talk about keeping it "in the family" meant he was going to give his wife Pat the job? Come on. Unbelievable!

You're twisting it. The best guy could very well be in the family.

 

[upstater]

I'm surprised you miss the point. It wasn't that Hobbs didn't do a good job at GW. We know he did. But his ultimate sacking disqualifies him from getting a top-tier HC job like UConn at this time.

The point I was making is that the likely candidates at mid-majors have the good fortune of not having been there as long as Hobbs. Remember, at one time, even Leitao was a hot candidate for the job he turned in at DePaul, which seemed to impress everyone. Very few coaches succeed at the top levels and become mainstays.

 

[freescooter]

You're twisting it. The best guy could very well be in the family.

I'm not twisting anything. When you only consider only UConn guys you don't know what the pool would have been. Just like if you are filling a position in the UB English Dept and you only consider UB English Dept. graduates, you'll never know if someone with a degree from Yale might have been better...

 

[8893]

Now you guys are really really being disingenuous. You think all his talk about keeping it "in the family" meant he was going to give his wife Pat the job? Come on. Unbelievable!

No, I didn't think he was referring to his wife Pat. I also didn't think he was stating that he wasn't looking for the best guy for the job. A preference is not the same as an exclusive requirement.

 

[upstater]

I'm not twisting anything. When you only consider only UConn guys you don't know what the pool would have been. Just like if you are filling a position in the UB English Dept and you only consider UB English Dept. graduates, you'll never know if someone with a degree from Yale might have been better...

If I know all the candidates that are out there pretty well, and I determine (based on my criteria for the job) that an insider would be the best candidate, then I've hired the best candidate.

 

[freescooter]

No, I didn't think he was referring to his wife Pat. I also didn't think he was stating that he wasn't looking for the best guy for the job. A preference is not the same as an exclusive requirement.

Oh please just stop...he has been focused on Ollie for 2 years. He has said multiple times that he wanted to keep it in the family. He wasn't interested in anyone outside his circle. To suggest that he considered folks outside his UConn circle is either intentionally ignoring reality or a sign of complete ignorance. I don't think you guys are ignorant...You are going to tell me with a straight face that if you were looking for the best guy to take over a major program you would select a guy who had never been a head coach, had only 2 years experience as a coach at any level? Come on. You are going to say if you opened the job up, only Kevin Ollie would have been considered? Please... But if you limit the selection to the "UConn family" the options get pretty small and given that nobody else burned it up, he's as good as any.

 

[freescooter]

If I know all the candidates that are out there pretty well, and I determine (based on my criteria for the job) that an insider would be the best candidate, then I've hired the best candidate.

You know what, I give up. If Calhoun had named his wife the new head coach you guys would be oon here trying to say she was the only person qualified to do it...You know he didn't consider anyone outside his circle. you know he didn't want to see the job go to anyone outside his circle no matter how qualified. Yet you still claim he "knows the best candidate for the job." Bullsh1t!

 

[8893]

Oh please just stop...he has been focused on Ollie for 2 years. He has said multiple times that he wanted to keep it in the family. He wasn't interested in anyone outside his circle. To suggest that he considered folks outside his UConn circle is either intentionally ignoring reality or a sign of complete ignorance. I don't think you guys are ignorant...You are going to tell me with a straight face that if you were looking for the best guy to take over a major program you would select a guy who had never been a head coach, had only 2 years experience as a coach at any level? Come on. You are going to say if you opened the job up, only Kevin Ollie would have been considered? Please... But if you limit the selection to the "UConn family" the options get pretty small and given that nobody else burned it up, he's as good as any.

Sorry, not stopping. I don't know his thought process and I don't pretend to. You claim that you do; I'm not that presumptuous. What I do know is that I like what I see so far, and until proven otherwise I am giving the guy the benefit of the doubt that he lobbied for the person whom he thought was best to succeed him as head coach at UConn. I believe that he really saw something special in Kevin, as have many, many others both within and outside the UConn community. I think many of the rest of us are starting to see that now, too. You don't, so be it. Enjoy your Sendek analogies and conspiracy theories. I've got a season to look forward to.

 

[metsfan2323]

Oh please just stop...he has been focused on Ollie for 2 years. He has said multiple times that he wanted to keep it in the family. He wasn't interested in anyone outside his circle. To suggest that he considered folks outside his UConn circle is either intentionally ignoring reality or a sign of complete ignorance. I don't think you guys are ignorant...You are going to tell me with a straight face that if you were looking for the best guy to take over a major program you would select a guy who had never been a head coach, had only 2 years experience as a coach at any level? Come on. You are going to say if you opened the job up, only Kevin Ollie would have been considered? Please... But if you limit the selection to the "UConn family" the options get pretty small and given that nobody else burned it up, he's as good as any.

You do realize that if Manuel made a selection from an open pool that there would still be a high chance of failure, probably more then 60 % plus it would have pissed off the large basketball alumni family that JC has built. Why take a chance on losing that powerful alumni support?

Going JC's way first should have been a layup for Manuel, it takes all of the pressure off of him because if KO fails it will be viewed as JC's fault, Manuel will get a free pass and he will at that point get to go out and make his selection without pissing off the UCONN basketball family.

Now you may think that JC should have publicly and gleefully turned over the keys to Manuel so he can make the decision, but who are you to tell JC what to do? Why should JC or any of us have any faith in a football guy who's last job was at mighty Buffalo. Manuel has no basketball track record, none.

Did Steve Jobs internally hand pick Apple's successor or did they have an open search?

 

[aceboon]

lol, ya'll still arguing with this dude? damn, 30 pages...

 

[upstater]

You know what, I give up. If Calhoun had named his wife the new head coach you guys would be oon here trying to say she was the only person qualified to do it...You know he didn't consider anyone outside his circle. you know he didn't want to see the job go to anyone outside his circle no matter how qualified. Yet you still claim he "knows the best candidate for the job." Bullsh1t!

Yeah the wife is equivalent to Kevin Ollie and we're the crazies.