OT: What changes are you and family making to your lifestyle due to coranavirus?

[ClifSpliffy]

Not true.

ya mean pert near every thought in ur head?
What You Should Know About the Possibility of COVID-19 Illness After Vaccination | CDC

 

[HuskyHawk]

Anyway, we kind of derailed this and I think Tom will come nuke it if it continues on this path.

The question we discussed in the spring was life changes, work, home, family, travel, day to day. I am curious what changes you think will stick and what will change back.

An example is apps for ordering takeout and online menus at restaurants via codes and smart phones, plus touchless payment. That is going to stay. That's a permanent shift. More outdoor dining is I hope a shift that sticks up north. Movies being released to stream while in the cinema? I think that will stick as well.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

Anyway, we kind of derailed this and I think Tom will come nuke it if it continues on this path.

The question we discussed in the spring was life changes, work, home, family, travel, day to day. I am curious what changes you think will stick and what will change back.

An example is apps for ordering takeout and online menus at restaurants via codes and smart phones, plus touchless payment. That is going to stay. That's a permanent shift. More outdoor dining is I hope a shift that sticks up north. Movies being released to stream while in the cinema? I think that will stick as well.

don't blame me, bud. the thread centers on 'changes' and i gave a specific example of one thing that literally changed for me and many others from last week to yesterday, and it being a 'lifestyle' thing, makes it doubly on point. another change affecting my lifestyle that ain't changing back anytime soon is the office pop-in, where being in the neighborhood of the office for a pal/business contact, i just pop-in to say hi. recent experience has taught me that most aren't there, and the reasonable guesstimate is that 1 in 4 or 5 ain't coming back.

 

[Dogdeacon]

It'll be real interesting as the world returns to normal how people adjust to going back to offices full-time, commuting and mass/public transportation generally.
Personally, my company will be flexible but request 3-4 days per week in the office which means a 1hr commute for me each way. I like working in the office better than working from home in terms of the work portion, but going back to the commute is going to feel like a massive time suck from family life and play.

In cities the fall of 2021 will be really interesting with TBD's around
TRAFFIC - so many more people will avoid mass transit & drive, eventually that becomes untenable & will force people back to mass transit
MASS TRANSIT - Masks will likely remain in play, I'd guess 50%+ will still wear. To me it makes sense as a new normal particularly during flu season. But I don't see how people will get immediately comfortable sitting shoulder to shoulder with strangers for 40 minutes, going to be weird and again I think beginning in September its traffic Armageddon in major cities for 1yr plus. For me once on the train I will wear a mask and at least for awhile try to only sit with other mask wearers.
WORK TRAVEL - I think it'll go back to same as before, busy airports 50%+ masks on planes for foreseeable future.

Beyond the ridiculous politicization of it (isn't it counterintuitive that being conservative makes you more risky about your health).
The mask thing is interesting. I'm 100% in favor of NO MASKS OUTSIDE (esp at my kids sporting events!), but I'm fine for now putting it on anywhere its required or prudent due to crowding.

Post SARS there was a contingent, mostly Asian, that wore masks in airports or large crowds. I was among those scoffing at this, thinking this was paranoid & excessive. Immediately upon Covid spreading overseas even before we were all homebound I could see & embrace the logic. I read a great piece about how people kept working & commuting amidst SARS outbreaks in other countries with super vigilant protocols. I still feel ignorant and regret my last weeks of commuting in Feb/March 2020 when I knew what was coming but blithely went unmasked drinking coffee on the train.
Facts are surviving once, it being as drastic as its been should change behavior us and make one avoid or prepare for the next outbreak. It doesn't restrict a thing you physically do, just do so with an extra precaution which hopefully avoids another widespread shutdown & crisis. Who knows if or where this or something else might re-start, but it certainly seems more likely now that there will be new & ongoing pandemic type events. You can actually wear a mask in only high risk situations and live your life normally which is what I hope to try.

 

[superjohn]

It'll be real interesting as the world returns to normal how people adjust to going back to offices full-time, commuting and mass/public transportation generally.
Personally, my company will be flexible but request 3-4 days per week in the office which means a 1hr commute for me each way. I like working in the office better than working from home in terms of the work portion, but going back to the commute is going to feel like a massive time suck from family life and play.

In cities the fall of 2021 will be really interesting with TBD's around
TRAFFIC - so many more people will avoid mass transit & drive, eventually that becomes untenable & will force people back to mass transit
MASS TRANSIT - Masks will likely remain in play, I'd guess 50%+ will still wear. To me it makes sense as a new normal particularly during flu season. But I don't see how people will get immediately comfortable sitting shoulder to shoulder with strangers for 40 minutes, going to be weird and again I think beginning in September its traffic Armageddon in major cities for 1yr plus. For me once on the train I will wear a mask and at least for awhile try to only sit with other mask wearers.
WORK TRAVEL - I think it'll go back to same as before, busy airports 50%+ masks on planes for foreseeable future.

Beyond the ridiculous politicization of it (isn't it counterintuitive that being conservative makes you more risky about your health).
The mask thing is interesting. I'm 100% in favor of NO MASKS OUTSIDE (esp at my kids sporting events!), but I'm fine for now putting it on anywhere its required or prudent due to crowding.

Post SARS there was a contingent, mostly Asian, that wore masks in airports or large crowds. I was among those scoffing at this, thinking this was paranoid & excessive. Immediately upon Covid spreading overseas even before we were all homebound I could see & embrace the logic. I read a great piece about how people kept working & commuting amidst SARS outbreaks in other countries with super vigilant protocols. I still feel ignorant and regret my last weeks of commuting in Feb/March 2020 when I knew what was coming but blithely went unmasked drinking coffee on the train.
Facts are surviving once, it being as drastic as its been should change behavior us and make one avoid or prepare for the next outbreak. It doesn't restrict a thing you physically do, just do so with an extra precaution which hopefully avoids another widespread shutdown & crisis. Who knows if or where this or something else might re-start, but it certainly seems more likely now that there will be new & ongoing pandemic type events. You can actually wear a mask in only high risk situations and live your life normally which is what I hope to try.

You think masks will be at 50% after we're through this? I doubt 50% are still wearing masks right now.

 

[CL82]

Not true.

I love how people pretend they know things. That’s not new since covid, just more emphasized now.

“The clinical trials of Covid vaccines thus far have focused primarily on preventing the symptoms and severity of Covid rather than evaluating acquisition of the virus and transmission to others,” Creech says.

Patients who have been vaccinated can certainly still contract SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, and pass it on to others. There are two reasons for that, says Matthew Woodruff, an immunologist at Emory University.

First, he says, being vaccinated doesn't guarantee protection. Both the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines have been shown to be extremely effective — about 95% — at preventing Covid symptoms, but that still means they won't work in some people.

A worker prepares a dose of the Pfizer BioNTech in the Bronx borough of New York on Feb. 5.
Photographer: Angus Mordant/Bloomberg

“This means that in your neighborhood of 40 vaccinated individuals, even if everyone has followed CDC recommendations, there will still likely be two people at risk of contracting and spreading the disease,” Woodruff says. “We do know that those two people will likely have less-severe disease than they would have otherwise, but I don't think anyone would seriously argue that they are incapable of transmission.”

Secondly, says Woodruff, being protected from symptoms of a disease isn't the same as being free from infection.

“It is certainly possible that patients that are otherwise protected from symptoms will still have low-level infections that they may not even notice,” he says.

LINK

 

[CL82]

Not true.

I love how people pretend they know things. That’s not new since covid, just more emphasized now.

“The clinical trials of Covid vaccines thus far have focused primarily on preventing the symptoms and severity of Covid rather than evaluating acquisition of the virus and transmission to others,” Creech says.

Patients who have been vaccinated can certainly still contract SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, and pass it on to others. There are two reasons for that, says Matthew Woodruff, an immunologist at Emory University.

First, he says, being vaccinated doesn't guarantee protection. Both the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines have been shown to be extremely effective — about 95% — at preventing Covid symptoms, but that still means they won't work in some people.

A worker prepares a dose of the Pfizer BioNTech in the Bronx borough of New York on Feb. 5.
Photographer: Angus Mordant/Bloomberg

“This means that in your neighborhood of 40 vaccinated individuals, even if everyone has followed CDC recommendations, there will still likely be two people at risk of contracting and spreading the disease,” Woodruff says. “We do know that those two people will likely have less-severe disease than they would have otherwise, but I don't think anyone would seriously argue that they are incapable of transmission.”

Secondly, says Woodruff, being protected from symptoms of a disease isn't the same as being free from infection.

“It is certainly possible that patients that are otherwise protected from symptoms will still have low-level infections that they may not even notice,” he says.

LINK

 

[superjohn]

“The clinical trials of Covid vaccines thus far have focused primarily on preventing the symptoms and severity of Covid rather than evaluating acquisition of the virus and transmission to others,” Creech says.

Patients who have been vaccinated can certainly still contract SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, and pass it on to others. There are two reasons for that, says Matthew Woodruff, an immunologist at Emory University.

First, he says, being vaccinated doesn't guarantee protection. Both the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines have been shown to be extremely effective — about 95% — at preventing Covid symptoms, but that still means they won't work in some people.

A worker prepares a dose of the Pfizer BioNTech in the Bronx borough of New York on Feb. 5.
Photographer: Angus Mordant/Bloomberg

“This means that in your neighborhood of 40 vaccinated individuals, even if everyone has followed CDC recommendations, there will still likely be two people at risk of contracting and spreading the disease,” Woodruff says. “We do know that those two people will likely have less-severe disease than they would have otherwise, but I don't think anyone would seriously argue that they are incapable of transmission.”

Secondly, says Woodruff, being protected from symptoms of a disease isn't the same as being free from infection.

“It is certainly possible that patients that are otherwise protected from symptoms will still have low-level infections that they may not even notice,” he says.

LINK

Do you really want to be posting links in this thread about fully vaxxed transmitting to unvaxxed? The evidence is strong that the chances of transmission are incredibly small. You can Google it for yourself and find dozens of articles.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

It'll be real interesting as the world returns to normal how people adjust to going back to offices full-time, commuting and mass/public transportation generally.
Personally, my company will be flexible but request 3-4 days per week in the office which means a 1hr commute for me each way. I like working in the office better than working from home in terms of the work portion, but going back to the commute is going to feel like a massive time suck from family life and play.

In cities the fall of 2021 will be really interesting with TBD's around
TRAFFIC - so many more people will avoid mass transit & drive, eventually that becomes untenable & will force people back to mass transit
MASS TRANSIT - Masks will likely remain in play, I'd guess 50%+ will still wear. To me it makes sense as a new normal particularly during flu season. But I don't see how people will get immediately comfortable sitting shoulder to shoulder with strangers for 40 minutes, going to be weird and again I think beginning in September its traffic Armageddon in major cities for 1yr plus. For me once on the train I will wear a mask and at least for awhile try to only sit with other mask wearers.
WORK TRAVEL - I think it'll go back to same as before, busy airports 50%+ masks on planes for foreseeable future.

Beyond the ridiculous politicization of it (isn't it counterintuitive that being conservative makes you more risky about your health).
The mask thing is interesting. I'm 100% in favor of NO MASKS OUTSIDE (esp at my kids sporting events!), but I'm fine for now putting it on anywhere its required or prudent due to crowding.

Post SARS there was a contingent, mostly Asian, that wore masks in airports or large crowds. I was among those scoffing at this, thinking this was paranoid & excessive. Immediately upon Covid spreading overseas even before we were all homebound I could see & embrace the logic. I read a great piece about how people kept working & commuting amidst SARS outbreaks in other countries with super vigilant protocols. I still feel ignorant and regret my last weeks of commuting in Feb/March 2020 when I knew what was coming but blithely went unmasked drinking coffee on the train.
Facts are surviving once, it being as drastic as its been should change behavior us and make one avoid or prepare for the next outbreak. It doesn't restrict a thing you physically do, just do so with an extra precaution which hopefully avoids another widespread shutdown & crisis. Who knows if or where this or something else might re-start, but it certainly seems more likely now that there will be new & ongoing pandemic type events. You can actually wear a mask in only high risk situations and live your life normally which is what I hope to try.

'Armageddon in major cities for 1yr plus.'
recently, and previously reported here, ny's mta opined for planning purposes that ridership will reach 90% of 2019 levels in 2025. and as far as say, masks and a government, whelp Texas went kommando months ago, and relative to the insane clown posse's round here, are doing, both healthwise and economywise, way better. 'member the butthurt outrage on that one from the top on down? we do. here's another local lifestyle tidbit. the State of Connecticut recently released it's state beach recc's -no mask needed if ur in the water, but if ur just barely in and stationary wading in low water, it is encouraged. so, if ur just hanging around with some pals, mebbe smoking a cig or something else while jawing(6 feet apart!) and standing in the surf, the eco-popo might roust you?

 

[auror]

“This means that in your neighborhood of 40 vaccinated individuals, even if everyone has followed CDC recommendations, there will still likely be two people at risk of contracting and spreading the disease,” Woodruff says. “We do know that those two people will likely have less-severe disease than they would have otherwise, but I don't think anyone would seriously argue that they are incapable of transmission.”

Secondly, says Woodruff, being protected from symptoms of a disease isn't the same as being free from infection.

“It is certainly possible that patients that are otherwise protected from symptoms will still have low-level infections that they may not even notice,” he says.

LINK

This excerpt is from an article in February. We know more now. At the 90-95% effective level it protects from infections, not just lowers symptoms. But yes, 5-10% of people are still vulnerable. This study came out in the end of March:

Coronavirus Disease 2019

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

 

[CL82]

Do you really want to be posting links in this thread about fully vaxxed transmitting to unvaxxed? The evidence is strong that the chances of transmission are incredibly small. You can Google it for yourself and find dozens of articles.

Did you read the article? Read the article and then post.

 

[Dogdeacon]

'Armageddon in major cities for 1yr plus.'
recently, and previously reported here, ny's mta opined for planning purposes that ridership will reach 90% of 2019 levels in 2025. and as far as say, masks and a government, whelp Texas went kommando months ago, and relative to the insane clown posse's round here, are doing, both healthwise and economywise, way better. 'member the butthurt outrage on that one from the top on down? we do. here's another local lifestyle tidbit. the State of Connecticut recently released it's state beach recc's -no mask needed if ur in the water, but if ur just barely in and stationary wading in low water, it is encouraged. so, if ur just hanging around with some pals, mebbe smoking a cig or something else while jawing(6 feet apart!) and standing in the surf, the eco-popo might roust you?

A. I'm talking about car traffic Armageddon
B. TX essentially has no mass transit so not sure the comparative point. The nyah nyah anecdotes of opening and things being mostly fine is childish at best. We all want everywhere to be fine & anecdotally crybaby comparisons aren't helping to date.
C. Speaking of, seems like y'all the one butthurt about possible laws & theoretical police, if you are so laissez faire just live your life, get vaccinating & stop complaining please.

 

[superjohn]

Did you read the article? Read the article and then post.

I read what you posted from an article which seems to be written three months ago, I don't know why you made the post though. I've read tons of literature in the past few weeks about researchers studying Covid and transmission.

An unvaxxed person can get Covid from a vaxxed person, just like you could get Covid from pushing a shopping cart in a market or you could get struck by lightning tonight taking the garbage out. There's always a chance for anything but the chances are infinitesimally small.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

Went to a hockey game and baseball game in the past two weeks in Philly and had to mask up in both venues. Hockey I understood bc it's indoors but the baseball game, we were outdoors, sitting in a pod of 4 and nowhere near anyone in our seats. The ushers held up signs in between innings to 'wear your mask' and even looked around for people who had them pulled down while sitting in their seats which I thought was a little much.

That said, I'm fine with my mask...saves people from my face.

 

[CL82]

I read what you posted from an article which seems to be written three months ago, I don't know why you made the post though. I've read tons of literature in the past few weeks about researchers studying Covid and transmission.

An unvaxxed person can get Covid from a vaxxed person, just like you could get Covid from pushing a shopping cart in a market or you could get struck by lightning tonight taking the garbage out. There's always a chance for anything but the chances are infinitesimally small.

@Dream Jobbed 2.0 said "Everyone knows you can still carry and transmit even if you’re vaxxed." He is correct.
You replied to his "Not true." You are wrong.

Particularly until we've reached "herd immunity" people should understand that while as vaccinated person your chance of contracting disease and having serious consequences is relatively low, that does not mean that you cannot transmit the disease.

 

[superjohn]

@Dream Jobbed 2.0 said "Everyone knows you can still carry and transmit even if you’re vaxxed." He is correct.
You replied to his "Not true." You are wrong.

Particularly until we've reached "herd immunity" people should understand that while as vaccinated person your chance of contracting disease and having serious consequences is relatively low, that does not mean that you cannot transmit the disease.

As I said you can also be struck by lightning, the chances are infinitesimally small though. We're not going to reach herd immunity but that doesn't matter.

 

[CL82]

As I said you can also be struck by lightning, the chances are infinitesimally small though. We're not going to reach herd immunity but that doesn't matter.

What are the odds of being struck by lightning and what the odds of an inoculated person transmitting COVID. You seem to think that is an important comparison, so you surely know the figures.

Do you know what the definition of herd immunity is? Just curious because you seem certain it is unattainable.

 

[Excalibur]

@Dream Jobbed 2.0 said "Everyone knows you can still carry and transmit even if you’re vaxxed." He is correct.
You replied to his "Not true." You are wrong.

Particularly until we've reached "herd immunity" people should understand that while as vaccinated person your chance of contracting disease and having serious consequences is relatively low, that does not mean that you cannot transmit the disease.

Asymptomatic transmission in vaccinated people is very likely not a thing. That's what really matters. The CDC may not have said so straight up (they won't do anything without 100% confirmation) but the likelihood is near zero.

 

[superjohn]

What are the odds of being struck by lightning and what the odds of an inoculated person transmitting COVID. You seem to think that is an important comparison, so you surely know the figures.

Do you know what the definition of herd immunity is? Just curious because you seem certain it is unattainable.

Do I know know the definition of herd immunity? Now you're just being weird. Go look up more articles from three months ago.

 

[CL82]

Asymptomatic transmission in vaccinated people is very likely not a thing. That's what really matters. The CDC may not have said so straight up (they won't do anything without 100% confirmation) but the likelihood is near zero.

Is that between vaccinated people or between a vaccinated an non-vaccinated person. Both are low likelihood, but the former is would seem to be lower.

The big difference for vaccinated people is that you are very unlikely to have a sufficient viral load to transmit the disease since you are unlikely to be hospitable bReEDiNg ground to the virus. Still, if I was going from a known Covid case to known vulnerable person, I would be extraordinarily careful. That's the difference between near zero risk and no risk. That said, with the caveat that I'm not a medical professional so I defer to those of you who are.

 

[CL82]

Do I know know the definition of herd immunity? Now you're just being weird. Go look up more articles from three months ago.

Okay, so you don't. I understand. You might want to familiarize yourself with it before you start posting about it in absolutes.

 

[superjohn]

Okay, so you don't. I understand. You might want to familiarize yourself with it before you start posting about it in absolutes.

What the hell are you talking about? Of course I know what it is and we aren't reaching it, look at the rates of vaccination in the South and other parts of the country. We aren't making it compulsory and we aren't getting to that threshold our health officials have been talking about but it doesn't matter. Once we get above 50% of adults fully vaxxed in the rest of the country like we have in New England things we'll be looking really good.

 

[auror]

What the hell are you talking about? Of course I know what it is and we aren't reaching it, look at the rates of vaccination in the South and other parts of the country. We aren't making it compulsory and we aren't getting to that threshold our health officials have been talking about but it doesn't matter. Once we get above 50% of adults fully vaxxed in the rest of the country like we have in New England things we'll be looking really good.

As a country, probably not. New England will make it, though. Herd immunity is a community level thing, thankfully, as it's based on continuable local transmission. Other parts of the country can't "infect" us if we're at herd immunity locally. Small pockets may pop up, but they'll die out on their own without intervention. CT and MA are likely already there, assuming most or all of the first dosers get the 2nd dose, and we're still dosing at high levels without much fall off.



It takes a bit to ramp down, because at the core it's about the virus not being able to get R above 1.0, but it doesn't go to 0 immediately. All parts of MA are R below 0.9 and all age groups are trending way down. Hospitalizations are plummeting, after a brief spike by young people with B117.

 

[CL82]

What the hell are you talking about? Of course I know what it is and we aren't reaching it, look at the rates of vaccination in the South and other parts of the country. We aren't making it compulsory and we aren't getting to that threshold our health officials have been talking about but it doesn't matter. Once we get above 50% of adults fully vaxxed in the rest of the country like we have in New England things we'll be looking really good.

Look it up and read the definition John and you’ll realize that you were mistaken. You’re welcome.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

A. I'm talking about car traffic Armageddon
B. TX essentially has no mass transit so not sure the comparative point. The nyah nyah anecdotes of opening and things being mostly fine is childish at best. We all want everywhere to be fine & anecdotally crybaby comparisons aren't helping to date.
C. Speaking of, seems like y'all the one butthurt about possible laws & theoretical police, if you are so laissez faire just live your life, get vaccinating & stop complaining please.

odd, i don't see any ad hominems in my post. u mad, brah?
still true. texas 1.74%. ny, mass, ct, nj -start at 2.38%, then go up.
USA | Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per 1M Population | RealClearPolitics
'get vaccinating?' no, cuz: