Welp, ACC stays together with a new agreement (LINK)

[UConnJim]

I still think they are missing a key component in CR. The value of UNC and NC State together is more valuable than the sum of their parts individually. Same with Oklahoma-Okie State, Florida-Florida State, etc. If separated, NC State could dominate the ACC while UNC flounders in a conference like the SEC. I know, can't double up states anymore, but I think they are missing how important rivalries are.

If you look at the schools that the P2 have added since 1990, virtually all of the schools have been the public flagship or co-flagship of a state: Penn St., Nebraska, Maryland, Rutgers, Oregon, Washington, UCLA, USC (one exception) in the Big 10 and Arkansas, South Carolina, Missouri, Texas A&M, Texas, Oklahoma in the SEC. And, there are still similar schools still available to the P2 like Virginia, North Carolina, Cal, Stanford (similar to USC), Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Kansas, Notre Dame (if they want to). Other possible schools would be Florida St. (the P2 have taken 2 schools from large states), Arizona St. (AAU and fast growing state), Clemson.

I just don't see the P2 taking a school that has Tech or State in their name or any privates with the exception of Stanford and Notre Dame.

 

[champs99and04]

From a cultural perspective, the fan bases of Va Tech and NC State are far more similar to those of SEC schools than the fan bases of UVA and UNC.

Back in the Beemer days when the Hokies were regularly a ranked program and often spent time in the top ten, they likely had a legitimate shot at an SEC invitation. These days that appears to be a bridge too far. NC State would need a massive step forward to land on the SEC's radar.

This is why I think the Big 12 is so well-positioned long-term. It's carved out an identity as the natural backstop for schools that either aren't quite prestigious enough for the B1G or not quite good enough for the SEC, yet still have proud histories with large, passionate fan bases. Virginia Tech and NC State, along with about a dozen other programs either already in the Big 12 or eventually headed there, fit that description to a tee.

Much like the Big East, the modern Big 12 has long sought to define itself as a coalition of likeminded, blue-collar institutions that share the distinct goal of trying to fend off extinction in a landscape increasingly dominated by the P2. Contrast its model to the jumbled mess that is the ACC, and I think it might just pull it off.

 

[billybud]

I am not a fan of the new Frankenstein conferences...the SEC has a particular strength...on any given Saturday, you can see multitudes of cars flying school colors caravanning to a conference game. Contiguity is a good thing for fandom.

The fan experience for UCF must be quite different.....their two nearest conference members are 13 and 14 hour drives distant,,,and others, well, check your bag and put on your headphones.

I like a northeastern based conference, a southern based, western based, Midwestern, etc. The made for TV cross country conferences may be good for the media networks, but football in the stands is changing.

I can tell you from my former years sitting in the stands in Tallahassee...BC, Cuse, Pitt fans were a small bunch....Florida. Miami, Clemson sold their allotments.

45 years ago, #4 Pitt came to town and we were excited...they lost their only game that year in Tallahassee...I remember that season so well...the first season going to games with my now wife. But even being #4, they were scarce.

 

[champs99and04]

I like a northeastern based conference, a southern based, western based, Midwestern, etc.

It's quite the concept, isn't it? For as much as I begrudge the SEC for killing the original Big 12, at least it still makes some sense geographically. The B1G is on another level with its contempt for tradition and common sense.

 

[Kolumbo]

If you look at the schools that the P2 have added since 1990, virtually all of the schools have been the public flagship or co-flagship of a state: Penn St., Nebraska, Maryland, Rutgers, Oregon, Washington, UCLA, USC (one exception) in the Big 10 and Arkansas, South Carolina, Missouri, Texas A&M, Texas, Oklahoma in the SEC. And, there are still similar schools still available to the P2 like Virginia, North Carolina, Cal, Stanford (similar to USC), Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Kansas, Notre Dame (if they want to). Other possible schools would be Florida St. (the P2 have taken 2 schools from large states), Arizona St. (AAU and fast growing state), Clemson.

I just don't see the P2 taking a school that has Tech or State in their name or any privates with the exception of Stanford and Notre Dame.

That is correct. And that is what I think they are missing. Michigan & Michigan State. Ole Miss & Miss State. UNC & NC State. UVA and VPI. Kansas & Kansas State. Arizona & Arizona State. As it should be, in-conference rivals. Then you got your Oklahoma & Okie State. Oregon & Oregon State. Washington & Washington State. Separation will hurt both parties.

This is why I think the Big 12 is so well-positioned long-term. It's carved out an identity as the natural backstop for schools that either aren't quite prestigious enough for the B1G or not quite good enough for the SEC, yet still have proud histories with large, passionate fan bases. Virginia Tech and NC State, along with about a dozen other programs either already in the Big 12 or eventually headed there, fit that description to a tee.

Much like the Big East, the modern Big 12 has long sought to define itself as a coalition of likeminded, blue-collar institutions that share the distinct goal of trying to fend off extinction in a landscape increasingly dominated by the P2. Contrast its model to the jumbled mess that is the ACC, and I think it might just pull it off.

I agree but it will depend on what number the B1G and SEC stop at and where they feed. Utah, Colorado, Kansas, Arizona or Arizona State, could all be targets too. The best of the Big 12 and ACC would be a great conference but some will be poached.

 

[champs99and04]

I agree but it will depend on what number the B1G and SEC stop at and where they feed. Utah, Colorado, Kansas, Arizona or Arizona State, could all be targets too. The best of the Big 12 and ACC would be a great conference but some will be poached.

That's true. All bets are off after the B1G ditched its 100-year-old contiguous model to chase LA $. At this point I see no reason it won't eventually explore expansion in states like Texas, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, and Colorado. I wouldn't even put it past them to flip a school like Missouri.

The SEC I could see standing pat at 16 for a while. They seem more committed, at this point in time, to preserving some semblance of tradition and geographical coherency. At least all their schools can still be considered southern. The B1G and ACC have gone full mask off.

UNC and UVA have long been presumed to be the next dominos to fall, but I'm now starting to wonder. You'd think that if those two schools were P2 caliber, they'd have already been scooped up. In UVA's case, especially, the shine seems to be fading. I'm not even sure the Big 12 would want them.

With brand power now being the operative term, I would not be shocked to see UNC take Duke as their dance partner in the event that they move leagues. While Duke's football program is largely a write-off, I think the SEC has more than enough room to accommodate another middling football team or two. For scheduling purposes, it wouldn't hurt to have a counterweight to Vanderbilt - especially if they decide to go back to divisions (as I think every league should).

 

[B1GEast]

That's true. All bets are off after the B1G ditched its 100-year-old contiguous model to chase LA $. At this point I see no reason it won't eventually explore expansion in states like Texas, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, and Colorado. I wouldn't even put it past them to flip a school like Missouri.

The SEC I could see standing pat at 16 for a while. They seem more committed, at this point in time, to preserving some semblance of tradition and geographical coherency. At least all their schools can still be considered southern. The B1G and ACC have gone full mask off.

UNC and UVA have long been presumed to be the next dominos to fall, but I'm now starting to wonder. You'd think that if those two schools were P2 caliber, they'd have already been scooped up. In UVA's case, especially, the shine seems to be fading. I'm not even sure the Big 12 would want them.

With brand power now being the operative term, I would not be shocked to see UNC take Duke as their dance partner in the event that they move leagues. While Duke's football program is largely a write-off, I think the SEC has more than enough room to accommodate another middling football team or two. For scheduling purposes, it wouldn't hurt to have a counterweight to Vanderbilt - especially if they decide to go back to divisions (as I think every league should).

I don't think the SEC wants to be the reason the ACC breaks up. Having the ACC around helps their cause.

If the ACC fractures, there are unknown consequences to college football, it could make the Big 12 stronger.

I think the B1G and SEC are happy being the top two college football brands.

Keeping things status quo allows those two conferences to call the shots.

They are making top $$$ and college football would diminish if the ACC went away.

What would be left if they raided. Right now it's the law of diminishing returns. Adding other schools might give you more, but what would non conference opponents qualify look like.

It's bad optics and when the B1G grabbed USC and UCLA, and the Big 12 finished off the PAC. The college football landscape dynamic changed.

Ultimately, its not in the SEC''s best interest. An already weaker ACC is much better than the ACC disappearing because the conference footprint is so close and the last thing they want is to have to divide the pie with the 12

That being said, if the ACC is raided, UNC. and UVA will have a home in the SEC.

 

[buddy]

That's true. All bets are off after the B1G ditched its 100-year-old contiguous model to chase LA $. At this point I see no reason it won't eventually explore expansion in states like Texas, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, and Colorado. I wouldn't even put it past them to flip a school like Missouri.

The SEC I could see standing pat at 16 for a while. They seem more committed, at this point in time, to preserving some semblance of tradition and geographical coherency. At least all their schools can still be considered southern. The B1G and ACC have gone full mask off.

UNC and UVA have long been presumed to be the next dominos to fall, but I'm now starting to wonder. You'd think that if those two schools were P2 caliber, they'd have already been scooped up. In UVA's case, especially, the shine seems to be fading. I'm not even sure the Big 12 would want them.

With brand power now being the operative term, I would not be shocked to see UNC take Duke as their dance partner in the event that they move leagues. While Duke's football program is largely a write-off, I think the SEC has more than enough room to accommodate another middling football team or two. For scheduling purposes, it wouldn't hurt to have a counterweight to Vanderbilt - especially if they decide to go back to divisions (as I think every league should).

Using that logic, then UConn would be an outstanding addition to the SEC. Opens the door to the northeast.

 

[Hoophound]

Using that logic, then UConn would be an outstanding addition to the SEC. Opens the door to the northeast.

Chief00 predicted this years ago. It’s so outrageous that it’s genius. Could UConn vs Bama get the Northeast back into college football? I say, yes. If it ever happens, I have vowed to make sure Chief gets credit for making the call. UConn to the SEC and the SEC laughs at Rutgers and the B1G all the way to the bank.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Chief00 predicted this years ago. It’s so outrageous that it’s genius. Could UConn vs Bama get the Northeast back into college football? I say, yes. If it ever happens, I have vowed to make sure Chief gets credit for making the call. UConn to the SEC and the SEC laughs at Rutgers and the B1G all the way to the bank.

Chiefin ain't easy.

 

[CL82]

Using that logic, then UConn would be an outstanding addition to the SEC. Opens the door to the northeast.

 

[Vowelguy]

It's bad optics and when the B1G grabbed USC and UCLA, and the Big 12 finished off the PAC. The college football landscape dynamic changed.

No one even remembers that the initial B12 killed the Southwest Conference or that the ACC did to the BgE.
And so too everyone will forget these recent changes.

I don't see the P2 stopping because (a) there are gains to be made (in some cases) and (b) they can't sit by and let the other conference scoop up assets.

Seems like we are headed to a full professional league. The SEC/B1G will be the NBA/ABA, next tier will be the G league, and then additional minor leagues after that.

 

[Vowelguy]

Chief00 predicted this years ago.

Ahem.

I've had multiple posts going back a decade or more proposing this!

 

[Hoophound]

Ahem.

I've had multiple posts going back a decade or more proposing this!

Lol. Ok, I’ll give you a footnote. Make it happen!

 

[B1GEast]

No one even remembers that the initial B12 killed the Southwest Conference or that the ACC did to the BgE.
And so too everyone will forget these recent changes.

I don't see the P2 stopping because (a) there are gains to be made (in some cases) and (b) they can't sit by and let the other conference scoop up assets.

Seems like we are headed to a full professional league. The SEC/B1G will be the NBA/ABA, next tier will be the G league, and then additional minor leagues after that.

All the B1G and SEC want is more money. They get it with the current power structure.

They want more teams in the CFO which will benefit them. The conferences will get more dollars for being in the top bowl games and playoffs.

They need out of conference games, but if all that is left is tier three level games, it won't matter.

Clemson in the ACC is worth more for both the B1G and the SEC. If that wasn't so, half of the ACC teams would have bolted.

I might be totally wrong, but that's how I'm reading it

 

[Ldandy]

I don't think the SEC wants to be the reason the ACC breaks up. Having the ACC around helps their cause.

If the ACC fractures, there are unknown consequences to college football, it could make the Big 12 stronger.

I think the B1G and SEC are happy being the top two college football brands.

Keeping things status quo allows those two conferences to call the shots.

They are making top $$$ and college football would diminish if the ACC went away.

What would be left if they raided. Right now it's the law of diminishing returns. Adding other schools might give you more, but what would non conference opponents qualify look like.

It's bad optics and when the B1G grabbed USC and UCLA, and the Big 12 finished off the PAC. The college football landscape dynamic changed.

Ultimately, its not in the SEC''s best interest. An already weaker ACC is much better than the ACC disappearing because the conference footprint is so close and the last thing they want is to have to divide the pie with the 12

That being said, if the ACC is raided, UNC. and UVA will have a home in the SEC.

The die is cast. UNC, FSU, and Clemson will not be in the ACC by 2030 or possibly sooner. The SEC won’t give a rat’s if they are deemed the reason that the ACC fails. This will be the last major conference realignment period for a long time. The SEC and B1G will make sure that they secure the programs that will put them in the most advantageous position for future TV deals.

 

[champs99and04]

I don't think the SEC wants to be the reason the ACC breaks up. Having the ACC around helps their cause.

I think the ACC is going to be the reason the ACC breaks up. The half of the conference that takes football seriously (Miami, Clemson, FSU, NC State, Louisville, VT, and maybe one or two others) is going to bolt for the Big 12 as soon as it can. The rest will disperse in whichever direction the wind blows them (for the Big East's sake, hopefully it brings some of them back to their roots).

Using that logic, then UConn would be an outstanding addition to the SEC. Opens the door to the northeast.

I don't think the SEC has any desire to expand more than a state or two beyond its existing footprint, if at all. I know that might be hard to believe in light of the B1G's imperialist takeover of the west coast, but I think SEC fans have stronger spines than B1G fans. They genuinely want the SEC to consist of southern teams and don't care as much about the business side of things.

As a UConn football fan, I'd rather be in a league where we can compete, anyway. If we stay patient and play our cards right, we could end up back in the same league as BC, Cuse, Pitt, etc. Throw in another couple schools like Temple, USF, and maybe some combination of Wake, ECU, UNC, GT, UVA, and you have a conference that actually makes sense. Hell, maybe even UMass. Remaining isolated and estranged from any natural rivalries is not the way to revive college football in the northeast.

 

[Hoophound]

I think the ACC is going to be the reason the ACC breaks up. The half of the conference that takes football seriously (Miami, Clemson, FSU, NC State, Louisville, VT, and maybe one or two others) is going to bolt for the Big 12 as soon as it can. The rest will disperse in whichever direction the wind blows them (for the Big East's sake, hopefully it brings some of them back to their roots).


I don't think the SEC has any desire to expand more than a state or two beyond its existing footprint, if at all. I know that might be hard to believe in light of the B1G's imperialist takeover of the west coast, but I think SEC fans have stronger spines than B1G fans. They genuinely want the SEC to consist of southern teams and don't care as much about the business side of things.

As a UConn football fan, I'd rather be in a league where we can compete, anyway. If we stay patient and play our cards right, we could end up back in the same league as BC, Cuse, Pitt, etc. Throw in another couple schools like Temple, USF, and maybe some combination of Wake, ECU, UNC, GT, UVA, and you have a conference that actually makes sense. Hell, maybe even UMass. Remaining isolated and estranged from any natural rivalries is not the way to revive college football in the northeast.

That league will hurt basketball. It needs to be a stronger combo than that, and I think it will be.

In our region, the old Big East schools with some combo of basketball only schools is ideal. I know people don’t like the hybrid but having Cuse, BC etc. back and taking Nova, SJU, Georgetown and one or two of Marquette and PC would make a nice conference. I’m not too big on bringing in schools like ECU and Temple. That’s a step down that will ruin things.

 

[CL82]

That league will hurt basketball. It needs to be a stronger combo than that, and I think it will be.

In our region, the old Big East schools with some combo of basketball only schools is ideal. I know people don’t like the hybrid but having a Cuse, BC etc. back and taking Nova, SJU, Georgetown and one or two of Marquette and PC would make a nice conference. I’m not too big on bringing in schools like ECU and Temple. That’s a step down that will ruin things.

Maybe the best way to avoid the issues that plague the old big east hybrid format is simply to have a separate football conference and have those teams join the big east for other sports. That way, the big east conference remains a basketball center conference, which seems more stable, albeit less lucrative. The football schools could then keep whatever they make without worrying about the basketball only's begging for scraps.

All that said, I think it's far more likely that we would join the ACC remnant teams in the ACC. That branding has value and is likely to produce more revenue than a new football conference of former Big East schools.

 

[buddy]

I think the ACC is going to be the reason the ACC breaks up. The half of the conference that takes football seriously (Miami, Clemson, FSU, NC State, Louisville, VT, and maybe one or two others) is going to bolt for the Big 12 as soon as it can. The rest will disperse in whichever direction the wind blows them (for the Big East's sake, hopefully it brings some of them back to their roots).


I don't think the SEC has any desire to expand more than a state or two beyond its existing footprint, if at all. I know that might be hard to believe in light of the B1G's imperialist takeover of the west coast, but I think SEC fans have stronger spines than B1G fans. They genuinely want the SEC to consist of southern teams and don't care as much about the business side.

As a UConn football fan, I'd rather be in a league where we can compete, anyway. If we stay patient and play our cards right, we could end up back in the same league as BC, Cuse, Pitt, etc. Throw in another couple schools like Temple, USF, and maybe some combination of Wake, ECU, UNC, GT, UVA, and you have a conference that actually makes sense. Hell, maybe even UMass. Remaining isolated and estranged from any natural rivalries is not the way to revive college football in the northeast.

It was a joke! There is no chance of SEC or B1G admission. For the SEC, they are still in the CSA.

 

[CL82]

It was a joke! There is no chance of SEC or B1G admission. For the SEC, they are still in the CSA.

Way to walk it back, buddy! No, you are on record as being the leading advocate of the Connecticut to the SEC rumors. You're going to have to find a way to live with that.

 

[JeepCSC]

UNC and UVA have long been presumed to be the next dominos to fall, but I'm now starting to wonder. You'd think that if those two schools were P2 caliber, they'd have already been scooped up.

The ACC has only lost one program, a cash-strapped Maryland that the B10 hoped would shake out a few others. The penalties and GOR have basically locked up all the ACC programs the last dozen years. There has been no chance for poaching until now (or more likely in 4 years or so).

 

[huskymedic]

 

[CL82]

What does this do to every other conferences grant of rights? It's a settlement, not an adjudication so it would have minimal value in determining what another conference is GOR means.

 

[buddy]

Way to walk it back, buddy! No, you are on record as being the leading advocate of the Connecticut to the SEC rumors. You're going to have to find a way to live with that.

I think I could live with that!