Welp, ACC stays together with a new agreement (LINK)

[Rufus]

I don’t think silence means anything. Not one B1G addition spoke prior to being added. The only school that bragged ahead of time was Missouri and they didn’t get the invite.

Flugar had an inside tip on USC, but no one believed him at the time. It was still pure shock when USC and UCLA were added.

Penn State, Nebraska, Maryland and Rutgers were all surprises.

Washington and Oregon were shocking in that they joined the same time as USC and UCLA. The PAC collapsed faster than most thought possible.

Texas and Oklahoma were quiet until just days before joining the SEC.

 

[CL82]

I don’t think silence means anything. Not one B1G addition spoke prior to being added. The only school that bragged ahead of time was Missouri and they didn’t get the invite.

Flugar had an inside tip on USC, but no one believed him at the time. It was still pure shock when USC and UCLA were added.

Penn State, Nebraska, Maryland and Rutgers were all surprises.

Washington and Oregon were shocking in that they joined the same time as USC and UCLA. The PAC collapsed faster than most thought possible.

Texas and Oklahoma were quiet until just days before joining the SEC.

And Rutgers had been quietly "groomed" for years on what they needed to do to be a viable candidate. No promises, more a listing of their shortcomings.

 

[visitingcock]

For the record, I was speaking of UNC & UVA. I still believe that FSU and Clemson have higher opinions of their ability to get a P2 bid than those who will ultimately offer bids have of them.

They would be redundancies in the SEC (who I imagine will be working to alleviate the redundancies they currently have) and I have a difficult time believing the B1G would be willing to enter new territory with the B brands in their home states.

https://twitter.com/InsideCarolina?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1948463812039917958%7Ctwgr%5Ea7a053283651f4e37801b08d9249e3fb8908952c%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.secrant.com%2Frant%2Fsec-football%2Fnorth-carolina-reportedly-exploring-move-from-the-acc-to-the-sec%2F119522466%2F

 

[Milo65]

Just a guess:

UNC and UVA to the SEC - SEC has Florida already, these open new markets
Clemson to B1G saving a space for ND
Duke, FSU, Pitt and Louisville to B12- Yormark gets his basketball brand plus rivalries with Pitt/WV

This leaves Cuse, Miami, GT, NC State, SMU, Cal, Stanford, VT, BC, Wake.

 

[visitingcock]

Just a guess:

UNC and UVA to the SEC - SEC has Florida already, these open new markets
Clemson to B1G saving a space for ND
Duke, FSU, Pitt and Louisville to B12- Yormark gets his basketball brand plus rivalries with Pitt/WV

This leaves Cuse, Miami, GT, NC State, SMU, Cal, Stamford, VT, BC, Wake.

I cant see Clemson to the Big 10. Many cultural and academic differences. Same for UVA and UNC to SEC but proximity is good for travel in non-revenue sports. Has Scar forgiven them? (Yeah the old ACC Gamecocks like me are dying off).

NCState has $ value.

 

[CL82]

I cant see Clemson to the Big 10. Many cultural and academic differences. Same for UVA and UNC to SEC but proximity is good for travel in non-revenue sports. Has Scar forgiven them? (Yeah the old ACC Gamecocks like me are dying off).

NCState has $ value.

NC State has value, but does it have enough to justify an SEC invite? I'm not sure of that because the bar is so high.

 

[Milo65]

I cant see Clemson to the Big 10. Many cultural and academic differences. Same for UVA and UNC to SEC but proximity is good for travel in non-revenue sports. Has Scar forgiven them? (Yeah the old ACC Gamecocks like me are dying off).

NCState has $ value.

A lot of moving parts. Would FSU go to the B12? I don't think the B1G grabs them. State has value, but I don't believe they are an SEC team, definitely not a B1G. Possibly a B12. UVA could be left behind or could join all 3. Clemson to the SEC? It’s possible but the Cocks are already in that market. So many moving parts.

 

[visitingcock]

NC State has value, but does it have enough to justify an SEC invite? I'm not sure of that because the bar is so high.

NC State has value, but does it have enough to justify an SEC invite? I'm not sure of that because the bar is so high.

If UNC chooses to go to the Big10, the SEC would grab a large share of the NC market FOOTBALL FANS and their eyeballs. Same for a UVA/VaTech split. The SEC likes adding new states with geographic contiguity. It also like schools that have high home attendance in football.

UNC is a monster brand and much matters on their decision. They do like their ACC empire and vassal states and probably wouldn’t consider leaving except for money projections.

 

[CL82]

If UNC chooses to go to the Big10, the SEC would grab a large share of the NC market FOOTBALL FANS and their eyeballs. Same for a UVA/VaTech split. The SEC likes adding new states with geographic contiguity. It also like schools that have high home attendance in football.

UNC is a monster brand and much matters on their decision. They do like their ACC empire and vassal states and probably wouldn’t consider leaving except for money projections.

From what we're hearing UNC appears headed to the SEC. If that's correct, I'm not sure that NC State brings enough value to justify an invite. That isn't say they're not a valuable property, they just may not be a valuable enough property particularly after UNC is already on board. Now, if the state legislature or requires both schools to go together as a package deal, that becomes a different issue.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

From a cultural perspective, the fan bases of Va Tech and NC State are far more similar to those of SEC schools than the fan bases of UVA and UNC.

Back in the Beemer days when the Hokies were regularly a ranked program and often spent time in the top ten, they likely had a legitimate shot at an SEC invitation. These days that appears to be a bridge too far. NC State would need a massive step forward to land on the SEC's radar.

 

[Drew]

 

[visitingcock]

From what we're hearing UNC appears headed to the SEC. If that's correct, I'm not sure that NC State brings enough value to justify an invite. That isn't say they're not a valuable property, they just may not be a valuable enough property particularly after UNC is already on board. Now, if the state legislature or requires both schools to go together as a package deal, that becomes a different issue.

You are correct. If UNC joins the SEC, NC State would have no value to the SEC. Indeed, I think the SEC would decline to accept UNC if the state of NC tried to dictate conference choices

 

[Kolumbo]

I still think they are missing a key component in CR. The value of UNC and NC State together is more valuable than the sum of their parts individually. Same with Oklahoma-Okie State, Florida-Florida State, etc. If separated, NC State could dominate the ACC while UNC flounders in a conference like the SEC. I know, can't double up states anymore, but I think they are missing how important rivalries are.

 

[Fishy]

I still think they are missing a key component in CR. The value of UNC and NC State together is more valuable than the sum of their parts individually. Same with Oklahoma-Okie State, Florida-Florida State, etc. If separated, NC State could dominate the ACC while UNC flounders in a conference like the SEC. I know, can't double up states anymore, but I think they are missing how important rivalries are.

If that was actually true, the SEC would not have turned down Florida State 230 times.

 

[visitingcock]

I still think they are missing a key component in CR. The value of UNC and NC State together is more valuable than the sum of their parts individually. Same with Oklahoma-Okie State, Florida-Florida State, etc. If separated, NC State could dominate the ACC while UNC flounders in a conference like the SEC. I know, can't double up states anymore, but I think they are missing how important rivalries are.

The rivalries don’t get broken. Clemson still plays SCar. FSU still plays Florida. GTech still plays UGA.

 

[Kolumbo]

If that was actually true, the SEC would not have turned down Florida State 230 times.

I know it's not the way CR is playing out but CR has been ridiculous about it. It doesn't mean it is not true. Even UConn and Syracuse although not in the same state would be a great rivalry in the ACC if they had been added together. When they play now, no real juice, so to speak.

The rivalries don’t get broken. Clemson still plays SCar. FSU still plays Florida. GTech still plays UGA.

For now. Probably not as the conferences continue to grow or the P2 split off altogether. And rivalries only really mean something within a conference. I am not in the know but I doubt Georgia fans actually consider Ga Tech a great rival anymore.

 

[visitingcock]

I know it's not the way CR is playing out but CR has been ridiculous about it. It doesn't mean it is not true. Even UConn and Syracuse although not in the same state would be a great rivalry in the ACC if they had been added together. When they play now, no real juice, so to speak.


For now. Probably not as the conferences continue to grow or the P2 split off altogether. And rivalries only really mean something within a conference. I am not in the know but I doubt Georgia fans actually consider Ga Tech a great rival anymore.

I can assure you that SCar v Clemson and FSU v Florida are still rivalries in every sport. GaTech still considers UGA a rivalry he even though the football rivalry is languishing

 

[Kolumbo]

I can assure you that SCar v Clemson and FSU v Florida are still rivalries in every sport. GaTech still considers UGA a rivalry he even though the football rivalry is languishing

Even if true, I am saying they would be more valuable playing in the same conference. I'd wager that SEC fans in general are much more interested in Alabama-Auburn than USC-Clemson.

 

[visitingcock]

Even if true, I am saying they would be more valuable playing in the same conference. I'd wager that SEC fans in general are much more interested in Alabama-Auburn than USC-Clemson.

Not right now or last year. Auburn is too down. SEC fans do care about the historic interconference rivalries of the old Eastern Division. And they may matter more now with the playoffs.


Notre Dame and UConn didn’t matter in wbb when ND went to the ACC?

 

[CL82]

Notre Dame and UConn didn’t matter in wbb when ND went to the ACC?

Pretty much

 

[Kolumbo]

Not right now or last year. Auburn is too down. SEC fans do care about the historic interconference rivalries of the old Eastern Division. And they may matter more now with the playoffs.


Notre Dame and UConn didn’t matter in wbb when ND went to the ACC?

Recency bias doesn't matter with big rivalries. Alabama-Auburn is still a much more important rivalry to the SEC making both programs more valuable. Would USC receive more hype if Clemson were in the SEC? I think so. We fans outside of SEC country know about Alabama-Auburn but don't care much about USC-Clemson, no disrespect.

 

[Kolumbo]

Speaking of UVA in the key tweest thread, I like the stadium's North End Zone Hill. It looks like a grassy hill standing room only. Imagine if UConn had incorporated "The Hill" into a new on campus stadium. Very cool. For the young uns, The Hill was the grassy hill outside the south end of Memorial Stadium where most students would go to watch games, what with kegs being allowed and all.

Improvements Coming to Scott Stadium’s North End Zone Hill for 2024 Season

virginiasports.com

UVA also has a brand new football operations center to add to the campus athletic facilities

Hardie Football Operations Center Fly Through Tour

The $80 million Hardie Football Operations Center off Massie Road, which opened in June, is a 93,000-square-foot facility including a locker room, strength and conditioning space, nutrition spaces, meeting rooms, coaches’ offices, video operations and sports medicine areas.

virginiasports.com

 

[CL82]

The Hill was the grassy hill outside the south end of Memorial Stadium where most students would go to watch games, what with kegs being allowed and all.

Of course, kegs were also allowed in the stands, provided that you covered them with your jacket as you brought them in.

 

[Kolumbo]

Of course, kegs were also allowed in the stands, provided that you covered them with your jacket as you brought them in.

Kegs were also allowed in the soccer stadium. Legit allowed. UConn was so far ahead of its time.

 

[CL82]

Kegs were also allowed in the soccer stadium. Legit allowed. UConn was so far ahead of its time.

In hindsight, I laugh how we thought that we were being stealth by partially covering a keg with a coat as we walked in. There's no way that everyone didn't know what was going on.

 

[UConnJim]

I still think they are missing a key component in CR. The value of UNC and NC State together is more valuable than the sum of their parts individually. Same with Oklahoma-Okie State, Florida-Florida State, etc. If separated, NC State could dominate the ACC while UNC flounders in a conference like the SEC. I know, can't double up states anymore, but I think they are missing how important rivalries are.

If you look at the schools that the P2 have added since 1990, virtually all of the schools have been the public flagship or co-flagship of a state: Penn St., Nebraska, Maryland, Rutgers, Oregon, Washington, UCLA, USC (one exception) in the Big 10 and Arkansas, South Carolina, Missouri, Texas A&M, Texas, Oklahoma in the SEC. And, there are still similar schools still available to the P2 like Virginia, North Carolina, Cal, Stanford (similar to USC), Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Kansas, Notre Dame (if they want to). Other possible schools would be Florida St. (the P2 have taken 2 schools from large states), Arizona St. (AAU and fast growing state), Clemson.

I just don't see the P2 taking a school that has Tech or State in their name or any privates with the exception of Stanford and Notre Dame.

 

[champs99and04]

From a cultural perspective, the fan bases of Va Tech and NC State are far more similar to those of SEC schools than the fan bases of UVA and UNC.

Back in the Beemer days when the Hokies were regularly a ranked program and often spent time in the top ten, they likely had a legitimate shot at an SEC invitation. These days that appears to be a bridge too far. NC State would need a massive step forward to land on the SEC's radar.

This is why I think the Big 12 is so well-positioned long-term. It's carved out an identity as the natural backstop for schools that either aren't quite prestigious enough for the B1G or not quite good enough for the SEC, yet still have proud histories with large, passionate fan bases. Virginia Tech and NC State, along with about a dozen other programs either already in the Big 12 or eventually headed there, fit that description to a tee.

Much like the Big East, the modern Big 12 has long sought to define itself as a coalition of likeminded, blue-collar institutions that share the distinct goal of trying to fend off extinction in a landscape increasingly dominated by the P2. Contrast its model to the jumbled mess that is the ACC, and I think it might just pull it off.

 

[billybud]

I am not a fan of the new Frankenstein conferences...the SEC has a particular strength...on any given Saturday, you can see multitudes of cars flying school colors caravanning to a conference game. Contiguity is a good thing for fandom.

The fan experience for UCF must be quite different.....their two nearest conference members are 13 and 14 hour drives distant,,,and others, well, check your bag and put on your headphones.

I like a northeastern based conference, a southern based, western based, Midwestern, etc. The made for TV cross country conferences may be good for the media networks, but football in the stands is changing.

I can tell you from my former years sitting in the stands in Tallahassee...BC, Cuse, Pitt fans were a small bunch....Florida. Miami, Clemson sold their allotments.

45 years ago, #4 Pitt came to town and we were excited...they lost their only game that year in Tallahassee...I remember that season so well...the first season going to games with my now wife. But even being #4, they were scarce.

 

[champs99and04]

I like a northeastern based conference, a southern based, western based, Midwestern, etc.

It's quite the concept, isn't it? For as much as I begrudge the SEC for killing the original Big 12, at least it still makes some sense geographically. The B1G is on another level with its contempt for tradition and common sense.

 

[Kolumbo]

If you look at the schools that the P2 have added since 1990, virtually all of the schools have been the public flagship or co-flagship of a state: Penn St., Nebraska, Maryland, Rutgers, Oregon, Washington, UCLA, USC (one exception) in the Big 10 and Arkansas, South Carolina, Missouri, Texas A&M, Texas, Oklahoma in the SEC. And, there are still similar schools still available to the P2 like Virginia, North Carolina, Cal, Stanford (similar to USC), Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Kansas, Notre Dame (if they want to). Other possible schools would be Florida St. (the P2 have taken 2 schools from large states), Arizona St. (AAU and fast growing state), Clemson.

I just don't see the P2 taking a school that has Tech or State in their name or any privates with the exception of Stanford and Notre Dame.

That is correct. And that is what I think they are missing. Michigan & Michigan State. Ole Miss & Miss State. UNC & NC State. UVA and VPI. Kansas & Kansas State. Arizona & Arizona State. As it should be, in-conference rivals. Then you got your Oklahoma & Okie State. Oregon & Oregon State. Washington & Washington State. Separation will hurt both parties.

This is why I think the Big 12 is so well-positioned long-term. It's carved out an identity as the natural backstop for schools that either aren't quite prestigious enough for the B1G or not quite good enough for the SEC, yet still have proud histories with large, passionate fan bases. Virginia Tech and NC State, along with about a dozen other programs either already in the Big 12 or eventually headed there, fit that description to a tee.

Much like the Big East, the modern Big 12 has long sought to define itself as a coalition of likeminded, blue-collar institutions that share the distinct goal of trying to fend off extinction in a landscape increasingly dominated by the P2. Contrast its model to the jumbled mess that is the ACC, and I think it might just pull it off.

I agree but it will depend on what number the B1G and SEC stop at and where they feed. Utah, Colorado, Kansas, Arizona or Arizona State, could all be targets too. The best of the Big 12 and ACC would be a great conference but some will be poached.