Watch out for UConn

[vtcwbuff]

My mind is boogled.

 

[doggydaddy]

Convince me otherwise. I just can't see putting a player in that category when in 6 games against the other Final Four teams she scored in only two of the six games, averaging 1 point per game.

1st tourney game. 17 minutes, 6 points, 7 rebounds, 3 blocks.
2nd tourney game. 18 minutes, 13 points, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks.
3rd tourney game. 14 minutes, 2 points, 6 rebounds, 1 block.
4th tourney game. 5 minutes, 3 rebounds. Geno didn't play her much as Dolson was playing well and 38 minutes.
5th tourney game. 16 minutes, 4 points, 4 rebounds, 2 blocks.


Outside of the Kentucky game, she averaged around 16 minutes, 6 points, 6 rebounds and 2.25 blocks.

Just figure that for 32 minutes a game and you have 12, 12 and 4.5 blocks. Sounds damn good to me.

 

[easttexastrash]

1st tourney game. 17 minutes, 6 points, 7 rebounds, 3 blocks.
2nd tourney game. 18 minutes, 13 points, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks.
3rd tourney game. 14 minutes, 2 points, 6 rebounds, 1 block.
4th tourney game. 5 minutes, 3 rebounds. Geno didn't play her much as Dolson was playing well and 38 minutes.
5th tourney game. 16 minutes, 4 points, 4 rebounds, 2 blocks.


Outside of the Kentucky game, she averaged around 16 minutes, 6 points, 6 rebounds and 2.25 blocks.

Just figure that for 32 minutes a game and you have 12, 12 and 4.5 blocks. Sounds damn good to me.

My measuring stick is, and always will be, how you perform against the other top talent. I will need to see Stokes consistently have good numbers against the top teams before I am convinced.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Poor Elizabeth Williams. She had such promise, too. Maybe she should return her National Freshman of the Year award. And I'm sure Chiney Ogwumike is just a flash in the pan, like Alyssa Thomas.

I know that Chiney Ogwumike is a very talented player but her sophomore year might be effected substantially with the fact that her sister is now longer there to draw some of the defensive coverage. Her sister was quite often double teamed and it left her open somewhat frequently. This is not to say she isn't very talented but that's like a baseball team having an outstanding batter that can be pitched around. In her case, she might draw extra coverage which could effect her stats appreciably. I wasn't as impressed by Elizabeth Williams as were others. I think she's a good player but what little I saw of her reminds me of that Ohio State center who graduated this year or last who when UConn played them was quite ordinary, partially due to her ability to be double teamed.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Williams was in foul trouble against UCONN, if I recall correctly, and never got to play her game. She is the second best post, IMO. Chimney sees more like a 4 to me. She struggled against Baylor but obviously has all the physical abilities to dominate most teams.

What makes you think that she would be in foul trouble in almost any game against UConn and their stifling defense. If she backs off and avoids fouls she'd probably stay in the game but if she wants to play at 100% and be productive, I don't know if she can. UConn's interior help defense is overtly impressive, as their defensive stats will attest to.

 

[Buzzyboy]

I would say that there are very few really good post players in the nation. IMO, Griner, Williams and Dolson are top notch and I think that Stewart will be in the category as well. Chiney really struggled against Baylor's front line so I will need to see more from her to put her in that category. After that group there is a pretty big drop off. Being a top 10 post doesn't really mean that you are a top player in the country. I really wish that Baylor were playing Duke next season so that we could see Williams vs. Griner.

As far as Stokes is concerned, I am not saying that she doesn't have potential, but it is hard for me to say that she will be one of the top post players in the nation based on her performance in the NCAA tourney last season. And in four games against ND she scored a total of 6 points, 4 of those coming in the Final Four game. She had no points against Baylor and Stanford. She had 4 points against Duke, although she did rebound very well. I would put Destiny Williams ahead of Stokes at this stage of their careers.

I can't speak for the Duke game but I can tell you that her practice efforts were the reason she saw little or no time against Stanford and Baylor. Geno rewards great practice effort and a decent part of the season she wasn't seeing a lot of playing time because Geno felt her effort in practice "was wanting". You can throw those out as any indication of her ability.

 

[PacoSwede]

Tony not only missed on Morgan, but also -- along with everyone else -- Heather!!!

Seriously, I would not be surprised to see Heather and Brianna (? too many "Br ..." for my brain to file) Banks be the greatest (positive) surprises of the season. Though I don't know as BB would be much of a surprise.

 

[triaddukefan]

I would say that there are very few really good post players in the nation. IMO, Griner, Williams and Dolson are top notch and I think that Stewart will be in the category as well. Chiney really struggled against Baylor's front line so I will need to see more from her to put her in that category. After that group there is a pretty big drop off. Being a top 10 post doesn't really mean that you are a top player in the country. I really wish that Baylor were playing Duke next season so that we could see Williams vs. Griner.
s.

There is a very good chance that Duke will be play Baylor next year... in the Final Four. I too would love to see how they would match up.... as well as Sims vs Gray.

I cant comment on Stewart.... But I do think that Dolson along with Williams and Griner are at the top of the list in terms of Centers. At times I was impressed with Stokes.... at other times less so. In terms of top 10 ability.... yes.. she can definitely be one of the top 10 centers this year. If you are including PF's as posts... then I would add Chiney O to the mix.... and probably Hawkins of Maryland. Natasha Howard from FSU I think is primed for a breakout year.... she should benefit from not having to share the paint with Brevard this season.... at least in terms of increasing her offensive output. She definitely has top 10 ability. I like Jasmine Hassell from UGA.... the Busey (sp) kid from WVU.... as well as Dunning. Kelsey Bone sometimes... Those are some of the players off the top of my head that I think are quality posts.

 

[PacoSwede]

.... Geno rewards great practicean effort ...

I see this repeated often, but think it comes up short. As I recall, there were many former Huskies known for their effort, or never criticized for lack of it, who did not see lots of time on the floor. As a motivational gimmick, it might be helpful. As a reality, not so much. Potential to increase the team's odds of winning (short term, but also long-term) is the primary variable for playing time. Some fans sometimes disagree with Geno's assessment of potential, and no doubt he occasionally is inaccurate.

 

[easttexastrash]

I know that Chiney Ogwumike is a very talented player but her sophomore year might be effected substantially with the fact that her sister is now longer there to draw some of the defensive coverage. Her sister was quite often double teamed and it left her open somewhat frequently. This is not to say she isn't very talented but that's like a baseball team having an outstanding batter that can be pitched around. In her case, she might draw extra coverage which could effect her stats appreciably. I wasn't as impressed by Elizabeth Williams as were others. I think she's a good player but what little I saw of her reminds me of that Ohio State center who graduated this year or last who when UConn played them was quite ordinary, partially due to her ability to be double teamed.

For the record, Chiney will be a Junior, not a sophomore. The departure of Nneka will hurt the team but I suspet that Chiney's stats will increase considerably.

 

[doggydaddy]

My measuring stick is, and always will be, how you perform against the other top talent. I will need to see Stokes consistently have good numbers against the top teams before I am convinced.

I'm curious on how Chandler has done against top talent. You seem to be convinced that she will be spectacular.

 

[easttexastrash]

I'm curious on how Chandler has done against top talent. You seem to be convinced that she will be spectacular.

That is PRECISELY why I mentioned her in my previous post saying that I understand how you guys can be convinced that Stokes will do well based on what you've seen as I am also convince that Chandler will be good based on what I've see. Maybe you missed that post?

 

[easttexastrash]

I'm curious on how Chandler has done against top talent. You seem to be convinced that she will be spectacular.

For your veiwing pleasure. I have at no point said that Stokes is not a good player...just not a top 4 post player as was indicated in the OP.

Ozzie Nelson said: ↑

Time will tell...I was commenting more on the predictability of your posts, rather than the validity of the comparison. In any case, I am a UCONN Fan, so I have bias also. The bias, I hope , does not extend to jerk of my knee.​

I get that. I believe that Mariah Chandler is going to have a breakout year and I have nothing other than my prediction on what I've seen

 

[doggydaddy]

That is PRECISELY why I mentioned her in my previous post saying that I understand how you guys can be convinced that Stokes will do well based on what you've seen as I am also convince that Chandler will be good based on what I've see. Maybe you missed that post?

I saw it. I think there is a big difference between basing an opinion on practice and basing on actual games.

I guess you missed the Duke game? 12 rebounds and 5 blocks? Against one of the best centers in WCBB last year? Only one really good game, but more than Chandler has done.

Just my opinion, but I find it hypocritical to say that you need to see what Stokes does against other top talent but you don't need to see that for Chandler.

 

[doggydaddy]

For your veiwing pleasure. I have at no point said that Stokes is not a good player...just not a top 4 post player as was indicated in the OP.

Ozzie Nelson said: ↑

Time will tell...I was commenting more on the predictability of your posts, rather than the validity of the comparison. In any case, I am a UCONN Fan, so I have bias also. The bias, I hope , does not extend to jerk of my knee.​

I get that. I believe that Mariah Chandler is going to have a breakout year and I have nothing other than my prediction on what I've seen

I was arguing top 10. I never said or agreed that she was top 4. That was a silly statement.

 

[easttexastrash]

I was arguing top 10. I never said or agreed that she was top 4. That was a silly statement.

Gotcha. That was my point...the top 4 thing. Top 10 is absolutley feasible. I do think that Chandler is going to an extremely good player but I am certainly not ready to deem her top anything UNTIL I see her perform. We may both be surprised next season...you by Chandler and me by Stokes. I hope that Stokes surgery allows her to develop and reach her full potential.

 

[easttexastrash]

I saw it. I think there is a big difference between basing an opinion on practice and basing on actual games.

I guess you missed the Duke game? 12 rebounds and 5 blocks? Against one of the best centers in WCBB last year? Only one really good game, but more than Chandler has done.

Just my opinion, but I find it hypocritical to say that you need to see what Stokes does against other top talent but you don't need to see that for Chandler.

I never said that I don't need to see Chandler perform against top competition...I do! I am predicting that she will be very good but I have not said anywhere that she will be in the top 5 or 10 at her position.

 

[doggydaddy]

I never said that I don't need to see Chandler perform against top competition...I do! I am predicting that she will be very good but I have not said anywhere that she will be in the top 5 or 10 at her position.

You said she was elite and would explode next year. That is WAY more than "very good".

You also said "She could very well be Baylor's best overall athlete." and "Chandler is an INCREDIBLE mover and leaper".

There are other superlitives you used.

Everythig you've said about Chandler is way more over the top than anyone but Tony has said about Stokes.

I'm just curious why you don't need to see her against elite players?

 

[SallyH]

My bad on Chiney. I guess Tinkle played the 3?

I still think Stokes will be a top 10 post this year. Maybe I'm just not thinking of all of the players out there that are better. I'm sure others will remind me...lol.

If you are talking just centers, I think she is definately top 10.

For me, it's the fact that Kiah doesn't have to be the go-to post player. The fact that she's got Steph last year in BS and MT this year gives her the freedom to take advantage of her strengths, as opposed to EW who has the burden of doing it all.

 

[easttexastrash]

You said she was elite and would explode next year. That is WAY more than "very good".

You also said "She could very well be Baylor's best overall athlete." and "Chandler is an INCREDIBLE mover and leaper".

There are other superlitives you used.

Everythig you've said about Chandler is way more over the top than anyone but Tony has said about Stokes.

I'm just curious why you don't need to see her against elite players?

What??? I said that I do need to see her against top talent. Please re-read post 47.

I do think that Chandler will be spectacular. Saying the she will be spectacular is not the same as saying that she is a top 4 player at her position. However, I do think that she is going to kick some ass next season.

 

[VAMike23]

 

[tomcat]

For myself, I'd rather project the performances of players, particularly those who have never played even a minute of college ball, in a conservative way. I don't know whether UConn will have one, two or three top centers, and I don't much care. Things can happen. Injuries can happen. Slumps can happen, too, as we saw last season. If everyone is operating on all cylinders, UConn should have a helluva team, though rating one player or another as an All American at this point is, to my way of thinking, a waste of breath.

The real question is whether UConn will be better than, say, Baylor next season, or better than Duke or UNC (to stir the pot just a little) . Remember that the point is not whether Stef is the #1 or #2 or #3 center in the land. It is whether the coaching staff can use Stef and her compadres to solve the Griner problem, or to continue to dominate Williams. Think about the games against Stanford a few years ago when UConn drove Jane Appel absolutely crazy. Not the last year, when Tina was dominant, but before that. With the exception of the game UConn lost, Geno and Company developed a game plan that really worked.

I remember the game in St. Thomas, when by the end of the game, Appel was practically in tears. It was not because of a dominant single player, but a team of players. That, I submit, is all that matters this year. Can the coaching staff:
-- Get the freshmen, who are used to doing things their way, to buy into the UConn system?
-- Motivate the upperclassmen -- Dolson, Hartley, etc. -- so there are none of those debilitating slumps?
-- Work the entire team through whatever adversity (including injuries) that may hit?

Just some thoughts for consideration. Hope you're all having a nice summer. It was 113 degrees here again today.

 

[doggydaddy]

What??? I said that I do need to see her against top talent. Please re-read post 47.

I do think that Chandler will be spectacular. Saying the she will be spectacular is not the same as saying that she is a top 4 player at her position. However, I do think that she is going to kick some ass next season.

Tony is the only one that said that Stokes is going to be a top 4 player at her position.

But saying all the superlatives you used implies a top player at her position. At least that is how I interprite that.

Assuming she is a 3/4, do you consider the top 10 players at that position "spectacular"? I can only think of a few players to use that word for, so maybe it's just semantics.

You seem to be saying that she will be spectacular, yet you need to see her against top competition to put her in the top 10 for her position. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Huskymaniac]

With the exception of the game UConn lost, Geno and Company developed a game plan that really worked.

I remember the game in St. Thomas, when by the end of the game, Appel was practically in tears. It was not because of a dominant single player, but a team of players. That, I submit, is all that matters this year.

Regardless of anything else, we have Geno and they don't! We may not be able to find a player that can stop the jolly green giant but we have a coach that can figure out how to stop her with a team. A team he didn't have to cheat to recruit!

 

[cferraro04]

I'm sorry but the problem other teams are going to have against UConn is really quite simple really. Their problem is going to be UConn! I think that is what TonyC was trying to point out. The match-ups are just silly difficult for other teams and there is very little drop-off coming from the bench. Habitually when UConn went to the bench in the recent past they were somewhat challenged as to where the points were going to come from. I don't see that being a problem this year. UConn is going to be long, fast and an offensive and defensive juggernaut.

Let's loot at the probable starting line-up

Stephanie Dolson - last year - 10.0 points and 6.0 rebounds; This year 12 points and 7.0 rebounds
Breanna Stewart - This year - 10 points and 7.0 rebounds
Kelly Faris - last year 6.7 points and 5.2 rebounds; This year 7.5 points and 5.0 rebounds
KML last year - 15.0 points and 5.4 rebounds; This year - 17.5 points and 5.5 rebounds
Bria Hartley - last year - 14.0 and 3.9 rebounds; This year - 15.5 points and 4.2 rebounds

Moriah Jefferson - 4 points and 1.5 rebounds

Starters + Moriah Jefferson - 66.5 points and 30.2 rebounds

or, unlikely but still potent

Stephanie Dolson - This year - 14 points and 7.0 rebounds
Breanna Stewart - This year - 12 points and 7.0 rebounds
KML - This year - 19.0 points and 5.5 rebounds
Bria Hartley - 16.5 points and 4.2 rebounds
Moriah Jefferson - 5 points and 2 rebounds (everybody else's scoring goes up do to Moriah's ability to penetrate and dish.

Kelly Faris - 6 points 4.5 rebounds

Starters + Kelly - 72.5 points and 30.2 rebounds

Now let's go to the bench players...

Caroline Doty - Last Year - 5.0 points and 2.2 rebounds; This year 5.0 points and 2.2 rebounds.
Heather Buck - Last Year - 2.3 points and 3.0 rebounds; This year 2.3 points and 3.0 rebounds
Kiah Stokes - Last Year - 4.5 points and 4.5 rebounds; This year 6 points and 5.o rebounds
Morgan Tuck This year 4.5 points and 4.0 rebounds
Brianna Banks - last year 3.6 points and 1.1 rebounds; This year 4.5 points and 2.0 rebounds
Laura Engeln - last year 1.2 points and .8 rebounds; This year 2 points and 1.0 rebounds


With Kelly Starting and Moriah coming in off the bench
Total from the bench - 24.3 points and 17 rebounds
Total per game 90.8 and 47.2 rebounds

With Moriah Starting and Kelly coming off the bench
Total from the bench - 24.3 points and 17 rebounds
Total per game 96.8 points and 47.2 rebounds

If I take the obligatory 10 percent discount for compiling figures with my Husky blue glasses on I still get 81.7 points and 42.5 rebounds with Kelly starting and 87.12 points and 42.5 rebounds with Moriah starting.

This brings me to my original statement: The problem other teams are going to have with UConn this year is UConn. We are going to be an offensive juggernaut, they are going to have a match-up nightmare when they play UConn. UConn is long, fast and can score from a number of options. They will be tough on the boards.

Now, that we have discussed offense what about defense. We are going to be very tough on defense with out length, upper classman experience, speed on speed and Geno's defensive sets...teams are going to have a difficult time scoring. Opponents averaged 47.0 points and 31.3 rebounds last year. I look for UConn to duplicate those numbers this year. The problem other teams are going to have is to score more than 80 points against UConn. Only Notre Dame did that (83 pts) in our last game during the NCCA's . Notre Dame also scored 72 points during the regular season making them the only other team to score over 70 points against UConn. Now, ask yourself, do you think that Notre Dame without Peters, Novosel and Mallory will score over 70 points against UConn this year? Not happening... So, what does that give us...it gives us a team that is going to be very stingy on the defensive end but who will more than likely score mid 70s to 80 points per game. I think there is UConn and Baylor and everyone else... JMHO

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Great Post CF!!!!

 

[Bigpetunia]

Thank you, Nan, for injecting some intelligence into a nutty (but fun) discussion among fans who've been deprived of Husky BB for too many months. So here's a question I would ask: Given that we've now anointed three of our players in the top five in the entire country (WOW!) who would care to wager with me that none of the anointed will get as many minutes on the floor this season than the unanointed Kelly Faris??

 

[doggydaddy]

Thank you, Nan, for injecting some intelligence into a nutty (but fun) discussion among fans who've been deprived of Husky BB for too many months. So here's a question I would ask: Given that we've now anointed three of our players in the top five in the entire country (WOW!) who would care to wager with me that none of the anointed will get as many minutes on the floor this season than the unanointed Kelly Faris??

That was 3 of the top 4 posts, not 3 of the top 4 players.

The original statement was over the top, but you don't have to overstate what was said to make it even MORE over the top!!!

And it was only ONE poster, Tony, who said that, so no anointing here.

I agree about Faris getting more minutes than the 3 players mentioned.

 

[doggydaddy]

I can see you are squarely in the "Doty not starting" group, CF. Other than that, your numbers look pretty good to me.

ND is really going to struggle with UConn this year. Just go back 3 seasons and before that and you will get a picture of the probable scores.

It will be like Diggins freshman year. She will be changing her head band so often, her head wil spin...lol.

 

[msf22b]

Trash's point is well taken except for the fact that Stokes' problem was not physical in nature.