Watch out for UConn

[Ozzie Nelson]

I would say that there are very few really good post players in the nation. IMO, Griner, Williams and Dolson are top notch and I think that Stewart will be in the category as well. Chiney really struggled against Baylor's front line so I will need to see more from her to put her in that category. After that group there is a pretty big drop off. Being a top 10 post doesn't really mean that you are a top player in the country. I really wish that Baylor were playing Duke next season so that we could see Williams vs. Griner.

As far as Stokes is concerned, I am not saying that she doesn't have potential, but it is hard for me to say that she will be one of the top post players in the nation based on her performance in the NCAA tourney last season. And in four games against ND she scored a total of 6 points, 4 of those coming in the Final Four game. She had no points against Baylor and Stanford. She had 4 points against Duke, although she did rebound very well. I would put Destiny Williams ahead of Stokes at this stage of their careers.

Never would have predicted that.

 

[easttexastrash]

Never would have predicted that.

Convince me otherwise. I just can't see putting a player in that category when in 6 games against the other Final Four teams she scored in only two of the six games, averaging 1 point per game.

 

[doggydaddy]

I would say that there are very few really good post players in the nation. IMO, Griner, Williams and Dolson are top notch and I think that Stewart will be in the category as well. Chiney really struggled against Baylor's front line so I will need to see more from her to put her in that category. After that group there is a pretty big drop off. Being a top 10 post doesn't really mean that you are a top player in the country. I really wish that Baylor were playing Duke next season so that we could see Williams vs. Griner.

As far as Stokes is concerned, I am not saying that she doesn't have potential, but it is hard for me to say that she will be one of the top post players in the nation based on her performance in the NCAA tourney last season. And in four games against ND she scored a total of 6 points, 4 of those coming in the Final Four game. She had no points against Baylor and Stanford. She had 4 points against Duke, although she did rebound very well. I would put Destiny Williams ahead of Stokes at this stage of their careers.

I guess you had to see Stoke more to understand her potential. Basing it on the tourney is not enough in my opinion.

She had a very up and down year, the typical freshman learning curve. But from what I saw, she is a top 10 center.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Convince me otherwise. I just can't see putting a player in that category when in 6 games against the other Final Four teams she scored in only two of the six games, averaging 1 point per game.

Time will tell...I was commenting more on the predictability of your posts, rather than the validity of the comparison. In any case, I am a UCONN Fan, so I have bias also. The bias, I hope , does not extend to jerk of my knee.

 

[easttexastrash]

Time will tell...I was commenting more on the predictability of your posts, rather than the validity of the comparison. In any case, I am a UCONN Fan, so I have bias also. The bias, I hope , does not extend to jerk of my knee.

I get that. I believe that Mariah Chandler is going to have a breakout year and I have nothing other than my prediction on what I've seen.

I did agree that UCONN will have two of the top post players in the nation, so my comment was in no way an anti-UCONN comment. And Stokes will have had very limited opportunity to improve her game before the season starts since she had surgery. The summer is usually a time when a player gets to make major improvements going from fresman to sophomore seasons.

 

[vtcwbuff]

My mind is boogled.

 

[doggydaddy]

Convince me otherwise. I just can't see putting a player in that category when in 6 games against the other Final Four teams she scored in only two of the six games, averaging 1 point per game.

1st tourney game. 17 minutes, 6 points, 7 rebounds, 3 blocks.
2nd tourney game. 18 minutes, 13 points, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks.
3rd tourney game. 14 minutes, 2 points, 6 rebounds, 1 block.
4th tourney game. 5 minutes, 3 rebounds. Geno didn't play her much as Dolson was playing well and 38 minutes.
5th tourney game. 16 minutes, 4 points, 4 rebounds, 2 blocks.


Outside of the Kentucky game, she averaged around 16 minutes, 6 points, 6 rebounds and 2.25 blocks.

Just figure that for 32 minutes a game and you have 12, 12 and 4.5 blocks. Sounds damn good to me.

 

[easttexastrash]

1st tourney game. 17 minutes, 6 points, 7 rebounds, 3 blocks.
2nd tourney game. 18 minutes, 13 points, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks.
3rd tourney game. 14 minutes, 2 points, 6 rebounds, 1 block.
4th tourney game. 5 minutes, 3 rebounds. Geno didn't play her much as Dolson was playing well and 38 minutes.
5th tourney game. 16 minutes, 4 points, 4 rebounds, 2 blocks.


Outside of the Kentucky game, she averaged around 16 minutes, 6 points, 6 rebounds and 2.25 blocks.

Just figure that for 32 minutes a game and you have 12, 12 and 4.5 blocks. Sounds damn good to me.

My measuring stick is, and always will be, how you perform against the other top talent. I will need to see Stokes consistently have good numbers against the top teams before I am convinced.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Poor Elizabeth Williams. She had such promise, too. Maybe she should return her National Freshman of the Year award. And I'm sure Chiney Ogwumike is just a flash in the pan, like Alyssa Thomas.

I know that Chiney Ogwumike is a very talented player but her sophomore year might be effected substantially with the fact that her sister is now longer there to draw some of the defensive coverage. Her sister was quite often double teamed and it left her open somewhat frequently. This is not to say she isn't very talented but that's like a baseball team having an outstanding batter that can be pitched around. In her case, she might draw extra coverage which could effect her stats appreciably. I wasn't as impressed by Elizabeth Williams as were others. I think she's a good player but what little I saw of her reminds me of that Ohio State center who graduated this year or last who when UConn played them was quite ordinary, partially due to her ability to be double teamed.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Williams was in foul trouble against UCONN, if I recall correctly, and never got to play her game. She is the second best post, IMO. Chimney sees more like a 4 to me. She struggled against Baylor but obviously has all the physical abilities to dominate most teams.

What makes you think that she would be in foul trouble in almost any game against UConn and their stifling defense. If she backs off and avoids fouls she'd probably stay in the game but if she wants to play at 100% and be productive, I don't know if she can. UConn's interior help defense is overtly impressive, as their defensive stats will attest to.

 

[Buzzyboy]

I would say that there are very few really good post players in the nation. IMO, Griner, Williams and Dolson are top notch and I think that Stewart will be in the category as well. Chiney really struggled against Baylor's front line so I will need to see more from her to put her in that category. After that group there is a pretty big drop off. Being a top 10 post doesn't really mean that you are a top player in the country. I really wish that Baylor were playing Duke next season so that we could see Williams vs. Griner.

As far as Stokes is concerned, I am not saying that she doesn't have potential, but it is hard for me to say that she will be one of the top post players in the nation based on her performance in the NCAA tourney last season. And in four games against ND she scored a total of 6 points, 4 of those coming in the Final Four game. She had no points against Baylor and Stanford. She had 4 points against Duke, although she did rebound very well. I would put Destiny Williams ahead of Stokes at this stage of their careers.

I can't speak for the Duke game but I can tell you that her practice efforts were the reason she saw little or no time against Stanford and Baylor. Geno rewards great practice effort and a decent part of the season she wasn't seeing a lot of playing time because Geno felt her effort in practice "was wanting". You can throw those out as any indication of her ability.

 

[PacoSwede]

Tony not only missed on Morgan, but also -- along with everyone else -- Heather!!!

Seriously, I would not be surprised to see Heather and Brianna (? too many "Br ..." for my brain to file) Banks be the greatest (positive) surprises of the season. Though I don't know as BB would be much of a surprise.

 

[triaddukefan]

I would say that there are very few really good post players in the nation. IMO, Griner, Williams and Dolson are top notch and I think that Stewart will be in the category as well. Chiney really struggled against Baylor's front line so I will need to see more from her to put her in that category. After that group there is a pretty big drop off. Being a top 10 post doesn't really mean that you are a top player in the country. I really wish that Baylor were playing Duke next season so that we could see Williams vs. Griner.
s.

There is a very good chance that Duke will be play Baylor next year... in the Final Four. I too would love to see how they would match up.... as well as Sims vs Gray.

I cant comment on Stewart.... But I do think that Dolson along with Williams and Griner are at the top of the list in terms of Centers. At times I was impressed with Stokes.... at other times less so. In terms of top 10 ability.... yes.. she can definitely be one of the top 10 centers this year. If you are including PF's as posts... then I would add Chiney O to the mix.... and probably Hawkins of Maryland. Natasha Howard from FSU I think is primed for a breakout year.... she should benefit from not having to share the paint with Brevard this season.... at least in terms of increasing her offensive output. She definitely has top 10 ability. I like Jasmine Hassell from UGA.... the Busey (sp) kid from WVU.... as well as Dunning. Kelsey Bone sometimes... Those are some of the players off the top of my head that I think are quality posts.

 

[PacoSwede]

.... Geno rewards great practicean effort ...

I see this repeated often, but think it comes up short. As I recall, there were many former Huskies known for their effort, or never criticized for lack of it, who did not see lots of time on the floor. As a motivational gimmick, it might be helpful. As a reality, not so much. Potential to increase the team's odds of winning (short term, but also long-term) is the primary variable for playing time. Some fans sometimes disagree with Geno's assessment of potential, and no doubt he occasionally is inaccurate.

 

[easttexastrash]

I know that Chiney Ogwumike is a very talented player but her sophomore year might be effected substantially with the fact that her sister is now longer there to draw some of the defensive coverage. Her sister was quite often double teamed and it left her open somewhat frequently. This is not to say she isn't very talented but that's like a baseball team having an outstanding batter that can be pitched around. In her case, she might draw extra coverage which could effect her stats appreciably. I wasn't as impressed by Elizabeth Williams as were others. I think she's a good player but what little I saw of her reminds me of that Ohio State center who graduated this year or last who when UConn played them was quite ordinary, partially due to her ability to be double teamed.

For the record, Chiney will be a Junior, not a sophomore. The departure of Nneka will hurt the team but I suspet that Chiney's stats will increase considerably.

 

[doggydaddy]

My measuring stick is, and always will be, how you perform against the other top talent. I will need to see Stokes consistently have good numbers against the top teams before I am convinced.

I'm curious on how Chandler has done against top talent. You seem to be convinced that she will be spectacular.

 

[easttexastrash]

I'm curious on how Chandler has done against top talent. You seem to be convinced that she will be spectacular.

That is PRECISELY why I mentioned her in my previous post saying that I understand how you guys can be convinced that Stokes will do well based on what you've seen as I am also convince that Chandler will be good based on what I've see. Maybe you missed that post?

 

[easttexastrash]

I'm curious on how Chandler has done against top talent. You seem to be convinced that she will be spectacular.

For your veiwing pleasure. I have at no point said that Stokes is not a good player...just not a top 4 post player as was indicated in the OP.

Ozzie Nelson said: ↑

Time will tell...I was commenting more on the predictability of your posts, rather than the validity of the comparison. In any case, I am a UCONN Fan, so I have bias also. The bias, I hope , does not extend to jerk of my knee.​

I get that. I believe that Mariah Chandler is going to have a breakout year and I have nothing other than my prediction on what I've seen

 

[doggydaddy]

That is PRECISELY why I mentioned her in my previous post saying that I understand how you guys can be convinced that Stokes will do well based on what you've seen as I am also convince that Chandler will be good based on what I've see. Maybe you missed that post?

I saw it. I think there is a big difference between basing an opinion on practice and basing on actual games.

I guess you missed the Duke game? 12 rebounds and 5 blocks? Against one of the best centers in WCBB last year? Only one really good game, but more than Chandler has done.

Just my opinion, but I find it hypocritical to say that you need to see what Stokes does against other top talent but you don't need to see that for Chandler.

 

[doggydaddy]

For your veiwing pleasure. I have at no point said that Stokes is not a good player...just not a top 4 post player as was indicated in the OP.

Ozzie Nelson said: ↑

Time will tell...I was commenting more on the predictability of your posts, rather than the validity of the comparison. In any case, I am a UCONN Fan, so I have bias also. The bias, I hope , does not extend to jerk of my knee.​

I get that. I believe that Mariah Chandler is going to have a breakout year and I have nothing other than my prediction on what I've seen

I was arguing top 10. I never said or agreed that she was top 4. That was a silly statement.

 

[easttexastrash]

I was arguing top 10. I never said or agreed that she was top 4. That was a silly statement.

Gotcha. That was my point...the top 4 thing. Top 10 is absolutley feasible. I do think that Chandler is going to an extremely good player but I am certainly not ready to deem her top anything UNTIL I see her perform. We may both be surprised next season...you by Chandler and me by Stokes. I hope that Stokes surgery allows her to develop and reach her full potential.

 

[easttexastrash]

I saw it. I think there is a big difference between basing an opinion on practice and basing on actual games.

I guess you missed the Duke game? 12 rebounds and 5 blocks? Against one of the best centers in WCBB last year? Only one really good game, but more than Chandler has done.

Just my opinion, but I find it hypocritical to say that you need to see what Stokes does against other top talent but you don't need to see that for Chandler.

I never said that I don't need to see Chandler perform against top competition...I do! I am predicting that she will be very good but I have not said anywhere that she will be in the top 5 or 10 at her position.

 

[doggydaddy]

I never said that I don't need to see Chandler perform against top competition...I do! I am predicting that she will be very good but I have not said anywhere that she will be in the top 5 or 10 at her position.

You said she was elite and would explode next year. That is WAY more than "very good".

You also said "She could very well be Baylor's best overall athlete." and "Chandler is an INCREDIBLE mover and leaper".

There are other superlitives you used.

Everythig you've said about Chandler is way more over the top than anyone but Tony has said about Stokes.

I'm just curious why you don't need to see her against elite players?

 

[SallyH]

My bad on Chiney. I guess Tinkle played the 3?

I still think Stokes will be a top 10 post this year. Maybe I'm just not thinking of all of the players out there that are better. I'm sure others will remind me...lol.

If you are talking just centers, I think she is definately top 10.

For me, it's the fact that Kiah doesn't have to be the go-to post player. The fact that she's got Steph last year in BS and MT this year gives her the freedom to take advantage of her strengths, as opposed to EW who has the burden of doing it all.

 

[easttexastrash]

You said she was elite and would explode next year. That is WAY more than "very good".

You also said "She could very well be Baylor's best overall athlete." and "Chandler is an INCREDIBLE mover and leaper".

There are other superlitives you used.

Everythig you've said about Chandler is way more over the top than anyone but Tony has said about Stokes.

I'm just curious why you don't need to see her against elite players?

What??? I said that I do need to see her against top talent. Please re-read post 47.

I do think that Chandler will be spectacular. Saying the she will be spectacular is not the same as saying that she is a top 4 player at her position. However, I do think that she is going to kick some ass next season.