VaTech 67, TN 63, final | Page 5 | The Boneyard

VaTech 67, TN 63, final

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BroadwayVa said:
A number of years ago, I thought seriously about getting into AAU WBB--now this may or may not have been a local issue (not in Broadway), in the questioning of the leaders it became clear they did no 'teaching/training'--lots of playing. I have doubts this is a nation wide approach. \
Coco --you know more about this--is that the trend or was this localized??
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Unfortunately I think it has become a national bad trend. Geno himself has spoken about this as a bad thing in that there really is no teaching going on in AAU, just games being played in show case style events. Incidentally this brings to mind another urban legend. During the National championship game the legend went something like: Stewie would drive from Syracuse NY to practice with Brittney Sykes her Philadelphia Belles teammates. Brian is a good dude but that drive was 4 hours each way.
Typically those teams met on the weekend and played a bunch of games, I know this because I was in the gym and Jannah Tucker (formerly at TN now at 'Nova) might have been the best player there.
 
CocoHusky said:
During the National championship game the legend went something like: Stewie would drive from Syracuse NY to practice with Brittney Sykes her Philadelphia Belles teammates
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Yup, I remember that vividly and thought at the time: how wacked is that. I do understand the need to measure yourself against your peers, as opposed to whomever shows up for tryouts at your high school. This is what we have 'til something better comes along. Oh, wait, there is something better, however elitist; it's private schools and schollies! What a novel idea. For example: Home – Girls Basketball – Mater Dei High School
 
AAU has changed significantly in just the last ten years - teams used to be localized which allowed them to get together occasionally for serious practice (not an hour before the games start is some distant city's AAU tournament.) A lot of those teams still exist and still practice, but those teams no longer attract the local stars - the stars all get recruited by the 'super teams' - those teams recruit regionally, super regionally and nationally and because of the distances almost never get together to practice except in the city of one of the big national viewing AAU tournaments. And they have sucked the air out of the other non-school related training environment - the training camps run by good coaches with large staffs that worked on both individual and team oriented skills during the summers. Most of them had some college coaching talent involved and a lot of the staff was college or post college players helping train the next generation. The 'viewing' window at those camps for college coaches was almost entirely limited to the participating staff.

There is a lot of marketing by the AAU crowd around the super teams and the related tournaments selling parents on the importance of getting their young baller seen - and they drown out the 'sensible' advice articles and talks by others who try to counteract that marketing by suggesting training camps and HS practice are better developers of skills. Talented kids will be noticed even if they aren't playing in every AAU tournament, but it can be hard to be rational when your babies future might change with a single viewing by coach X.
 
BroadwayVa said:
Come on Chuck---The Vols barely got by JMU --until the 4th quarter --a Mid Major, in a tiny pond. Kenny Brooks (Va Tech) took over an less than successful team, recently, without time to recruit or put his stamp on this team--and THEY BEAT --the VOLs??
The Admin and Fans of UTn must be wondering about Holly.
With the level of talent Holly has had--I'm reluctant to say this--but if any of the other top 10 coaches had this team--MY OpinION--the outcomes these past few years would have been different.
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I don't disagree with anyone's comments on this thread regarding the lack of development/improvement from year to year in Holly's recruits. I've silently noted the same in observing Tennessee in action over the last few years. Simmons was a good example of a talented freshman phenom who started out setting the court on fire her 1st season...and then just plateaued - no new kinks to her game, no sense of maturation. The only Lady Vol player that caught my eye as advancing her game year-to-year was Isabel Harrison. She became their one indispensable presence on the court as a result, and it was Tennessee's bad luck she was hampered by injury her senior season.

Regarding my remarks on Holly, I am merely observing the atmosphere around her in relation to the Tenn. AD. He is far more focused on the Men's programs, particularly football, and I think as long as she manages the women's program decently without scandal or controversy, he's cool with her. Regardless of the hue and cry from the Vol Nation fanbase (which is loading up with the tar and pitchforks), he seems content with her. This recent recruiting success and the press the program got from their tournament run last spring doesn't help their cause. Neither does the fact that the fans still come out in reasonable numbers for all their home games. And we can't discount the fact that Warlick is "from the Vol family", which counts for a lot in the SEC.

BTW - I do like the observations on here regarding the good fortune she has had with tournament match-ups that have inflated her post-season success. That speaks to the fact that, despite her middling coaching acumen, the team has enough talent to win against similar middling competition.
 
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chuck.r said:
I don't disagree with anyone's comments on this thread regarding the lack of development/improvement from year to year in Holly's recruits. I've silently noted the same in observing Tennessee in action over the last few years. Simmons was a good example of a talented freshman phenom who started out setting the court on fire her 1st season...and then just plateaued - no new kinks to her game, no sense of maturation. The only Lady Vol player that caught my eye as advancing her game year-to-year was Isabel Harrison. She became their one indispensable presence on the court as a result, and it was Tennessee's bad luck she was hampered by injury her senior season.

Regarding my remarks on Holly, I am merely observing the atmosphere around her in relation to the Tenn. AD. He is far more focused on the Men's programs, particularly football, and I think as long as she manages the women's program decently without scandal or controversy, he's cool with her. Regardless of the hue and cry from the Vol Nation fanbase (which is loading up with the tar and pitchforks), he seems content with her. This recent recruiting success and the press the program got from their tournament run last spring doesn't help their cause. Neither does the fact that the fans still come out in reasonable numbers for all their home games. And we can't discount the fact that Warlick is "from the Vol family", which counts for a lot in the SEC.

BTW - I do like the observations on here regarding the good fortune she has had with tournament match-ups that have inflated her post-season success. That speaks to the fact that, despite her middling coaching acumen, the team has enough talent to win against similar middling competition.
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I appreciate the kind and generous comments. Many remember the home and home games---for some they were one step below the NC's. Good luck on your season.
 
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DaddyChoc said:
Margo speaks her mind about this game
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Faithful Margo...Good for her! She said some interesting things but guuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrllllllll give it up! I'm not downing Tennessee or Holly but just give it up! Seems like they've already given up so puh-leeeeeeeeze GIVE...IT....UP! This is a "catastrophically talented" team...talented nonetheless! Having said that...their "#1 recruiting class" better hope for a miracle next year! GO UCONN!!!
 
I agree with those that suggest that UT is primarily about football and that so long as HW fields a competitive team, with no hint of scandal, she will keep her job. Right now, the biggest concern around Knoxville is the loss this past weekend on the football field vs that other SEC team from TN (Vanderbilt).

However, it is worth pointing out that of the 14 SEC women's BB teams, UT's record places them dead last at 3-2. If the Vols turn into a mediocre, middle of the pack team within the SEC, then the AD will seriously have to consider making a change.
 
I imagine Holly wont be getting an extension unless the results start turning around. The big decision comes when the lack of an extension starts affecting recruiting. At that point it will get clearer if the school intends to keep her or are just waiting to reduce the cost of getting rid of her.

From what I can find her contract seems to run thru 2019 at 665K per year. That would make her buyout 2.66 million minus what she's already been paid this year. As that number shrinks her odds of being sacked would seem to go up.
 
This thread began as a report on the result of a basketball game (VaTech 67 - Tenn. 63). My oh my! It has grown like weeds! Reading all the posts was enlightening for a while but eventually just made my head hurt.:rolleyes:

I guess we're all ready for the renewal of UConn action.

Tonight, vs. Chatanooga. GO HUSKIES!:)
 
A couple of points;
1) Holly DOES have an offensive "system"; it is the "chuck it up and rebound like crazy" system that she learned from CPS. The problem is that Holly isn't scary enough to motivate the elevation necessary, and that other teams now have great big players too.
2) According to scuttlebutt from UT fans, the new assistant coach(es?) that Holly hired last year are bang-on recruiters but no better at the xs and os and game motivation than is Holly. Don't know if that is true but it would jibe with recent history in both recruiting and play.
3) Hart is gone, and I have not heard much about the new AD's attitude toward the LV.
 
Zorro said:
A couple of points;
1) Holly DOES have an offensive "system"; it is the "chuck it up and rebound like crazy" system that she learned from CPS. The problem is that Holly isn't scary enough to motivate the elevation necessary, and that other teams now have great big players too.
2) According to scuttlebutt from UT fans, the new assistant coach(es?) that Holly hired last year are bang-on recruiters but no better at the xs and os and game motivation than is Holly. Don't know if that is true but it would jibe with recent history in both recruiting and play.
3) Hart is gone, and I have not heard much about the new AD's attitude toward the LV.
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The new assistant was definitely a recruiting coordinator type person - she had performed that function in most of her previous jobs. I don't know that she is the reason for this great class - TN had no where to go but up from this past year, and she came on board fairly late in the recruiting process for 2017. TN as a name program, the fact that they have a small roster for this year, and the HC and assistants ground work with 2017 are probably the reason for the success - the real test will be of the 2018 class after a block-buster 2017. It is a much harder sell now that the roster is fuller with top rated recruits.
 
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Zorro said:
A couple of points;
1) Holly DOES have an offensive "system"; it is the "chuck it up and rebound like crazy" system that she learned from CPS. The problem is that Holly isn't scary enough to motivate the elevation necessary, and that other teams now have great big players too.
2) According to scuttlebutt from UT fans, the new assistant coach(es?) that Holly hired last year are bang-on recruiters but no better at the xs and os and game motivation than is Holly. Don't know if that is true but it would jibe with recent history in both recruiting and play.
3) Hart is gone, and I have not heard much about the new AD's attitude toward the LV.
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Thanks for the update (item 3). I wasn't aware that there had been a recent change in AD. I believe Hart was the one I was thinking of in my earlier post.
 
SWHuskyFan said:
I imagine Holly wont be getting an extension unless the results start turning around. The big decision comes when the lack of an extension starts affecting recruiting. At that point it will get clearer if the school intends to keep her or are just waiting to reduce the cost of getting rid of her.

From what I can find her contract seems to run thru 2019 at 665K per year. That would make her buyout 2.66 million minus what she's already been paid this year. As that number shrinks her odds of being sacked would seem to go up.
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I imagine if the fans stop attending games this would also cause the AD to also remove HW. Keeping her fan base will probably keep HW her job.
 
Zorro said:
A couple of points;
1) Holly DOES have an offensive "system"; it is the "chuck it up and rebound like crazy" system that she learned from CPS. The problem is that Holly isn't scary enough to motivate the elevation necessary, and that other teams now have great big players too.
2) According to scuttlebutt from UT fans, the new assistant coach(es?) that Holly hired last year are bang-on recruiters but no better at the xs and os and game motivation than is Holly. Don't know if that is true but it would jibe with recent history in both recruiting and play.
3) Hart is gone, and I have not heard much about the new AD's attitude toward the LV.
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I don't think they have appointed a new AD yet. See UTC's Blackburn could be frontrunner for Vols' athletic director job
 
Wbbfan1 said:
Fairly accurate Review of the game:

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I think ESPN, FOX. CBS et al should dump Debbie Antonelli from their broadcast teams and hire Margo in her place. Margo is far more knowledgeable and entertaining on her worst day than Debbie is on her best day.
 
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Margo: Give the superstar the ball! Those turn overs are the other players fault. Uh, she's drinking the cool aid.
 
Margo: Give the superstar the ball! Those turn overs are the other players fault. Uh, she's drinking the cool aid.
 
oldude said:
Yes, but I'd still take her over Debbie Antonelli....
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The Lady Vols could give Margo a try on their radio broadcasts as a third wheel. A "color" commentator/analyst for maybe 3 games, and see how it goes. One thing for sure, she's no stranger to Vol Nation. She would come in with name, face and voice recognition. She would not be boring, she'd bring it!!
 
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rvwsleep said:
Here's an interesting article on the plight of the current Lady Vol program.

Recruits still volunteer for Tennessee

PS. Clay should, at least, be able to spell Summitt correctly.
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Pretty bald indictment of the TN coaching staff - and pretty accurate. It is an interesting take on HS kids and their parents - are they really that ignorant of college basketball. It is the assumption I have made in a few posts because the last two years of product on the floor at TN has been very unappetizing and yet they get the #1 class this year.
I think it is too general a statement - you look at Collier's reasoning for committing to Uconn and she talks about the development of players she sees in Uconn teams, and their success into their WNBA careers. And you see a lot of those kinds of comments from other recruits going to other programs so one suspects some of the kids and parents are going on more than pure whimsey.
 
After all the nastiness to UCONN from TN over basically nothing I have NO sympathy for the Lady Vols or their fans!
If they lost every game but scored 1 point I would still be pi--ed!
May Holly Warlick get a lifetime HC contract from the University of TN!
 
rvwsleep said:
Here's an interesting article on the plight of the current Lady Vol program.

Recruits still volunteer for Tennessee

PS. Clay should, at least, be able to spell Summitt correctly.
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Points made in this excellent article have been discussed in Boneyard (and even in Vol Nation) several times except that the parents have not been blamed as much.
 
It is puzzling that Tennessee is not more successful since Pat left the picture considering how many top rated players they have been able to attract. All the opinions expressed on the Boneyard as to why this is so have merit.

There are many in Lady Vol land who are clamoring for Holly's ouster. Perhaps an equal number are blaming the players for the problems. In my opinion, both are at fault. Holly recruits the wrong type of player for the wrong reasons and everyone at Tenn has the wrong mindset for success.

I would like to illustrate my points by comparing the difference between the current UCONN vs. Tennessee way:

1. TN: I want to play for Holly. She is nice and will let me do my own thing without interference. There is nothing she needs to teach me. I want to be a star and my natural ability will win out. It will be easy.

UCONN: I want to play for Geno and his system. I realize I have raw ability and preconceived BB attitudes, but I'm still a babe in the woods and will do anything to improve and fit in. I too want to be a star and I'm willing to put in the effort to become one.

2. TN: Tennessee is in the dumps right now. I'm the person with the ability to ride in, put things right, and become the legend I deserve to be.

UCONN - I'm probably not going to exceed the accomplishments of former players, but I yearn to be part of that fantastic family while developing my skills to the fullest to fulfill my future goals.

3. TN : I know I'll always get a pat on the back no matter how I perform. Holly is a nurturer. I'll feel good about myself.

UCONN : I expect to cry alot. I will be the worst player on the roster in Geno's mind. Even so, I will never give up.I will show him through extreme effort.

4. TN : No way do I want to play for that egotistical maniac in Storrs. I don't need to run myself ragged just for him. I'm a highly desired recruit and I can succeed anywhere, and Holly really wants me. I will have lots of fun at Tennessee and the fans will adore me.I'm better than my teammates, and if they get me the ball, I'll be the one to slay UCONN and bring the Lady Vols back to their rightful place.

UCONN : I recognize that I don't know my true potential, but the UCONN staff has proven, over time, that they do. Geno may be hard to deal with in the beginning but my will is strong.

5. TN : So much playing time is available! It will be easy to break into the starting lineup with my superior skills.

UCONN : There are so many excellent players ahead of me and I will have a difficult time getting minutes.But I know the coaches will not abandon me if I put forth great effort and am willing to learn.I will always be supported through the criticism that is sure to come.

5. TN : Coach Holly is a great recruiter. Look at all the top rated players she has signed. So many are McDonalds all americans. Her philosophy - if you're a McD AA, you must be good. Bring them on, particularly if they love me. My players can do no wrong. I'll always find something to praise in them. A trophy for everyone! I've received lots of criticism for my lack of coaching skills. But underneath it all, the fans know it's the players that are the problems, not me.

UCONN : Coach Geno and staff are great recruiters. But sometimes their choices and who they reject are puzzling to the fans. Their recruiting skills are beyond our comprehension but they somehow know which players and their families are the true stars. That's why we support the UCONN staff without question.

My basic point is Holly attracts players with thought processes that are different from those of UCONN recruits. The mindset of recruits that choose UCONN and its coaching staff just produce superior results regardless of the underlying talent inherent in all top ability kids.
 
Bestiarius said:
5. TN : Coach Holly is a great recruiter. Look at all the top rated players she has signed. So many are McDonalds all americans.
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Why is she so good at attracting highly desired players when there are obviously deep problems with the program? I dunno, but here's a suggestion:
She learned the patter of recruiting from a master and repeats it pretty well. No one ever gets tired of it, because it's a new group every year that's listening (the same reason I can repeat my lectures ad nauseum :)). But game coaching can't be memorized; it's all about innate instinct and (frankly) skills.
 
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