Update on a Tenn recruit

[Justavisitor]

Before Pat announced her illness (last year), wasn't fan support waning? This year Pat's situation did much to revive interest in the Lady Vols. I don't think you can point to this year's interest and extrapolate that into the future. We'll have to see what happens.

Actually, both TN and UConn's fans support went down according the the attendance numbers. I also think attendance was hampered by the economy and the aging fan bases. It's imperitive for all of WCBB that programs do a better job of drawing students to support the programs, because each fan base is suffering from attrition due to economy and age. I also didn't realize that Louisville leap frogged into the #2 spot with attendance. Considering UConn was in the running for the title in 2011, I was shocked to see that the Cardinals they had better fan support. Iowa State finished off this past season at #3. Interesting that fan support is not a direct correlation to results on the court. In addition, even with Pat's announcement, the number of fans in the seats did not reach the same numbers as the Candace Parker era. The economy and loss of long time supporters due to age has definitely had it's impact.

 

[EricLA]

Elsewhere here on the Boneyard is a thread about Charlie Creme's evaluation of teams for the upcoming season.

He should have gone a bit further and added a comment about fans. Something like, "There remains an element of fans of UConn and the LadyVols who remain obsessed with one another's team."

and would you say the Red Sox and Yankees fans are obsessed with each other? how about Duke men and UNC men? Lakers and Celtics? Barcelona and Madrid?

i do get that fans sometimes roll their eyes when other fans post a lot of tennessee stuff, and some think we shouldn't talk about it as much, but they are historically the best team in WCBB, and probably UCONN's most hated rival, at least for most fans.

 

[HuskyNan]

The key is getting 6 players with balance from the point guard through the center.

Wouldn't the key be to keeping all the players? When coaches sign huge classes, they take the risk that they're going to lose someone due to decreased available playing time and the fact that the time may not increase for the player's entire four years. With teams that sign smaller classes, at least the underclassmen know that 3 or 4 players are going to graduate at the end of the year and possibly open up a slot for them.

 

[speedoo]

The YUM Center (name aside) is amazing. I've loved my trips there. However, the practice and the dorm faciliteis and Tennessee are much better than at Louisville. This is a direct result of having a great commitment to women's athletics. Jeff is a tremendous coach, and he is building up a great program there, but they are still a level below Tennessee. Closer than in years past, I'll concede, but still below. Kentucky doesn't even belong in the conversation IMO.

To touch on Darth's comment as well, Summitteers are very weary of spreading information they recieve via chat. Maria shares a lot of info to those who participate in chat only and does not want this information floating around. She gets information from knowledgable sources, and, in my experience, she's never been wrong. So most posters know quite a bit, but they don't feel comfortable sharing that info.

Maria's never been wrong? I don't know what she says in chat, but I thought she was pretty positive about getting some JC help, and we know how that turned out.

 

[Husky7882]

I trust you mean wary -- unless they've been spreading a lot more of it that we realize.

That's JS - I see this a lot (have been guilty of it myself more than once).

 

[tennfanatic00]

Maria's never been wrong? I don't know what she says in chat, but I thought she was pretty positive about getting some JC help, and we know how that turned out.

I said that, in my experience, she's never been wrong. Meaning that everything I persoanlly have heard her speak (or saw in print) has turned out to be true. She's not one for wild, baseless speculation.

 

[doggydaddy]

Maria's never been wrong? I don't know what she says in chat, but I thought she was pretty positive about getting some JC help, and we know how that turned out.

I don't think she knew that Davis was going to recind on her verbal.

 

[doggydaddy]

I said that, in my experience, she's never been wrong. Meaning that everything I persoanlly have heard her speak (or saw in print) has turned out to be true. She's not one for wild, baseless speculation.

So you missed her saying that TN would get a JC player before they turned TN down? Oh, and calling the FBI on a poor Boneyarder?

 

[Kibitzer]

and would you say the Red Sox and Yankees fans are obsessed with each other? how about Duke men and UNC men? Lakers and Celtics? Barcelona and Madrid?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Also Williams and Amherst. Lehigh and Lafayette. Harvard and Yale. All Texas teams.

The difference? We have The Summitt and the Boneyard and they don't.

 

[DarthVol]

I said that, in my experience, she's never been wrong. Meaning that everything I persoanlly have heard her speak (or saw in print) has turned out to be true. She's not one for wild, baseless speculation.

Never been wrong? Seriously? In my experience she knows very little other than the propaganda crap she feeds to all the sheep at the summitt. How about those JUCO's that were coming? Oops. We didn't want them anyway because the 2013 is so awesome. And we all know the players weren't distracted at all by the Pat situation last season.....

 

[tennfanatic00]

It's common in fandom to be enthusiastic beyond reality. Look at how many people buy lottery tickets. We often hear comments from Vols referring to what was and relating it to the future. But, like your broker tells you, past performance is no guarantee of future results.

Take track record for commitment to women's athletics for instance. Do you think it would have developed if TN didn't have Pat for all those years. Isn't it more likely that, without Pat, things would have developed like the rest of the schools in the SEC? If you accept that premise, on what basis will support remain at a high level in Pat's absence? TN is already pegged to decline to perhaps as low as 4th place in the conference. If that happens, or worse, how long will support last? Fans like the feel good of being a fan of a winning team. When the team is no longer winning, support wanes. And, it seems as though TN fans are already concerned about the Athletic Director's commitment to women's sports.

Before Pat announced her illness (last year), wasn't fan support waning? This year Pat's situation did much to revive interest in the Lady Vols. I don't think you can point to this year's interest and extrapolate that into the future. We'll have to see what happens.

I think the consensus is that Elzy was a good move. But, looking into the future, is it a good idea to have 6 graduating seniors in one year? Also, if you do get 6 great recruits, how many of them will play next year, and what about the remaining 3 years. Uconn fans are worried about a class of 3 great recruits and it's impact on future recruiting. Imagine those recruits thinking about having to compete every day with 5 great players with none of them graduating in time to give you your chance in the limelight?

I think next year will be an interesting year, but I'm not buying one of the lottery tickets you're selling.

I tend to agree with your stance on fan's enthusiasm. However, I am far from that scope. I think I'm much more practical in my outlook of women's basketball than most fans.

Pat Summitt developed a tremendous program at Tennessee. Her absence will hurt, but it reamins to be seen how much it will hurt. I think it will hurt, but perhaps not as much as some think. The roots have been planted in our program, and it is easier to maintain a standard of excellence when the template has been put into place.

To have fans, you have to win consistently. That fact cannot be overstated. If UT continues to win, fan support will be there. I think we are too proud a program to go down so quickly. If we land a great 2013 class, we jolt right back up to the top of the game. If we don't, wholesale changes should be made to the program.

As I stated before, we have the resources and the tradition to recruit the best of the best, even without Pat. Putting the right people in the right roles is key for now. This makes Elzy's hire huge. It is also important, IMO to bring in a capable offensive mind to teach a cohesive offense. This is definately a crossroads situation for the Lady Vols and I am hopeful the administration will make the right moves to ensure the success of the program.

 

[Bestiarius]

To touch on Darth's comment as well, Summitteers are very weary of spreading information they recieve via chat. Maria shares a lot of info to those who participate in chat only and does not want this information floating around. She gets information from knowledgable sources, and, in my experience, she's never been wrong. So most posters know quite a bit, but they don't feel comfortable sharing that info.

I agree. The TN chat participants I know are good at keeping things secret. But, the people they give the details to can't keep a secret at all.

 

[speedoo]

I said that, in my experience, she's never been wrong. Meaning that everything I persoanlly have heard her speak (or saw in print) has turned out to be true. She's not one for wild, baseless speculation.

Maybe you were not around when Summitt ended the series and everyone was trying to figure out why. As I recall, Maria was saying, or at least implying some pretty wild and baseless things regarding the recruitment of Maya Moore back then.. And as the Summitt moderator, she at least allowed, and continues to allow, a lot of incredible things to be said on that board on that subject, or related to that subject. All the Geno cheats baloney, to be specific.

So for many of us here, her credibility is not great.

 

[tennfanatic00]

Never been wrong? Seriously? In my experience she knows very little other than the propaganda crap she feeds to all the sheep at the summitt. How about those JUCO's that were coming? Oops. We didn't want them anyway because the 2013 is so awesome. And we all know the players weren't distracted at all by the Pat situation last season.....

First, Maria stated several times that recruiting is fluid. Things change constantly and with teenage girls, it's tough to speculate about what decisions they will make. With the JUCOs, I never saw her post anything that promised the JUCOs were coming, just that Tennessee was actively looking at them.

As for Pat's situation last season, the players themselves said at every opportunity that they were not affected by it. You have to trust your sources even if your emotions tell you otherwise. I'll stand up for Maria any chance I get. She works very hard to provide us any inside info she can get, and she do a great job. IMO she doesn't fall into the rhetoric of the recruiting process. She has sources, tells us who they are, and gives us the information she knows we are dying to hear. The only thing she asks is that whatever she says in chat stays there.

 

[EricLA]

Never been wrong? Seriously? In my experience she knows very little other than the propaganda crap she feeds to all the sheep at the summitt. How about those JUCO's that were coming? Oops. We didn't want them anyway because the 2013 is so awesome. And we all know the players weren't distracted at all by the Pat situation last season.....

Darth, i want to know who the hell you are lol. you are like a breath of fresh air (i'm sure you've probably been banned on that board, if not already, then very soon).

all joking aside... I'm sure Tennessee fans will tell you that Maria has a lot of inside information as she is, by all accounts, tight with the coaches and other reporters who cover the LV's. i'm sure she "knows" what she's told by the coaches. i'm very curious at this point what players Tennessee fans feel they "lead" for or have a good shot at.

I've heard Russell/Muvunga may favor L'ville. Reimer may favor Notre Dame. Deshields may favor UCONN. Davis and Tennessee are no longer interested in each other. Umeri may favor Duke. McCall seems to be looking at Stanford and UCONN. Is Harper even looking at Tenn? I know they are after Greenwell and Tucker. who's left in the top 10 to make up this incredible class of 6? unless there are about 15 kids in the top 10, it doesn't seem they are going to be landing the "greatest class in the history of WCBB"...

 

[doggydaddy]

I tend to agree with your stance on fan's enthusiasm. However, I am far from that scope. I think I'm much more practical in my outlook of women's basketball than most fans.

Pat Summitt developed a tremendous program at Tennessee. Her absence will hurt, but it reamins to be seen how much it will hurt. I think it will hurt, but perhaps not as much as some think. The roots have been planted in our program, and it is easier to maintain a standard of excellence when the template has been put into place.

To have fans, you have to win consistently. That fact cannot be overstated. If UT continues to win, fan support will be there. I think we are too proud a program to go down so quickly. If we land a great 2013 class, we jolt right back up to the top of the game. If we don't, wholesale changes should be made to the program.

As I stated before, we have the resources and the tradition to recruit the best of the best, even without Pat. Putting the right people in the right roles is key for now. This makes Elzy's hire huge. It is also important, IMO to bring in a capable offensive mind to teach a cohesive offense. This is definately a crossroads situation for the Lady Vols and I am hopeful the administration will make the right moves to ensure the success of the program.

4 letters for you. UCLA. You can't get any more iconic than Wooden. Or successful as UCLA was during his tenure.

It's all about the coach. UCONN will have a dip as well when Geno retires. And the sudden departure of Pat is unique in it's circumstance. It makes the adjustment much more difficult.

You can add an offensive mind, but the players and Warick have both insisted that Pat's philosophy will remain, you win with defense and rebounding. I don't see that changing.

 

[doggydaddy]

First, Maria stated several times that recruiting is fluid. Things change constantly and with teenage girls, it's tough to speculate about what decisions they will make. With the JUCOs, I never saw her post anything that promised the JUCOs were coming, just that Tennessee was actively looking at them.

As for Pat's situation last season, the players themselves said at every opportunity that they were not affected by it. You have to trust your sources even if your emotions tell you otherwise. I'll stand up for Maria any chance I get. She works very hard to provide us any inside info she can get, and she do a great job. IMO she doesn't fall into the rhetoric of the recruiting process. She has sources, tells us who they are, and gives us the information she knows we are dying to hear. The only thing she asks is that whatever she says in chat stays there.

Recruiting is a crapshoot, and I agree with you about Maria. She didn't promise the JC's or even one of them would verbal with TN.

I know that Maria is the source that whenever she asked the players, they say Pat's situation didn't distract them. Personally, I find that hard to believe. They are young women who were going through an incredibly difficult situation. There is no way it didn't distract them in some way. Just because they told Maria that doesn't make it so.

The chats? To each their own. It's just so silly to me that anything she says in the chat is a secret. Not only are there many many posters in the chat, but many many others she sends the info to. She can't feel comfortable with it staying quiet, no matter how much she asks that it is confidential. So, it can't be real important info that she could risk getting out. Mostly fluff, and pep talks, I would guess.

I have a problem with insults to UConn, Geno and even May Moore and her mom continue to be posted there with no issues. You don't seem like the type that participates in that kind of stuff, but I'm surprised with how you ignore the fact that Maria let's it happen.

And lastly, thank you for posting on this board and sharing your opinion.

 

[tennfanatic00]

Recruiting is a crapshoot, and I agree with you about Maria. She didn't promise the JC's or even one of them would verbal with TN.

I know that Maria is the source that whenever she asked the players, they say Pat's situation didn't distract them. Personally, I find that hard to believe. They are young women who were going through an incredibly difficult situation. There is no way it didn't distract them in some way. Just because they told Maria that doesn't make it so.

The chats? To each their own. It's just so silly to me that anything she says in the chat is a secret. Not only are there many many posters in the chat, but many many others she sends the info to. She can't feel comfortable with it staying quiet, no matter how much she asks that it is confidential. So, it can't be real important info that she could risk getting out. Mostly fluff, and pep talks, I would guess.

I have a problem with insults to UConn, Geno and even May Moore and her mom continue to be posted there with no issues. You don't seem like the type that participates in that kind of stuff, but I'm surprised with how you ignore the fact that Maria let's it happen.

And lastly, thank you for posting on this board and sharing your opinion.

That was nice. Thank you.

We can agree to disagree on the chats. I've mostly gotten recaps, but when I've participated in the chats, there has been some valuable knowledge shared. She usually provides backstory of something about Pat, a recruit's decision, a transfer etc. It's usually from a trusted source. The secret thing is a little odd to me as well, but that's what she requests, so I abide by that.

I have no idea what happened with Maya Moore. There hasn't been anything concrete presented to me that indicates cheating. Maybe others have more inside info that I missed out on. The boards are a way to vent and voice opinions..even if it is purely specualtion. Rivalries have a way of bringing out the worst in fans.

I like coming here. I love the dialogue and I love how passionate the fanbase is. I'll continue to read and post here as long as I am welcome!

 

[Tonyc]

It will be interesting to watch what happens at Tenn. Holly and I give her credit got a very good recruiter. Now Tenn needs to develop their players and not just beat teams with more talent. Those days are over. Youve got to build and develop your talent into a team. Maybe Holly can do that. As far as Tenn getting top players, well youve got to look at who's left. I dont have any knowledge but I would think after all she said Diamond is coming to UConn. I dont think it matters who Tenn gets they will wont be at UConns level for a very long time. Geno has distanced himself from everybody, for at least the 4 years and with Diamond Chong McCall and Reimer on the radar UConn is almost invincable for the next few years. Geno CD and UConn will not only set a new standard, they will hold almost every record in WCBB for a long time.

 

[Bayareahusky]

I share the same with thoughts on Maria..... vis a vis blind support for allegations vs our program 5 yrs ago..... others in TN have adopted the same stance..... "Pat said it, so it must be true".... never mind that 11 out of 12 charges she submitted to NCAA were unfounded..... TN fans still consider us as guilty, and don't let go of it. I agree with poster that head of the TN board shouldn't hold onto these allegations, though they have been judged to be untrue. Their board is full of the banter "We do it the honest way", the right way, etc.... I say let them hold onto whatever they want to think of as true. We will just go on and be the best.

 

[Tonyc]

That was nice. Thank you.

We can agree to disagree on the chats. I've mostly gotten recaps, but when I've participated in the chats, there has been some valuable knowledge shared. She usually provides backstory of something about Pat, a recruit's decision, a transfer etc. It's usually from a trusted source. The secret thing is a little odd to me as well, but that's what she requests, so I abide by that.

I have no idea what happened with Maya Moore. There hasn't been anything concrete presented to me that indicates cheating. Maybe others have more inside info that I missed out on. The boards are a way to vent and voice opinions..even if it is purely specualtion. Rivalries have a way of bringing out the worst in fans.

I like coming here. I love the dialogue and I love how passionate the fanbase is. I'll continue to read and post here as long as I am welcome!

To answer you thought on what happened to Maya. As I was told by a very big Tenn fan who I havent heard from in a while. Maya was UCOnns for a very long time. Alot of insiders at Tenn knew it. Maya was UCOnns. There was talk about Caroline going to one school and EDD to another. I expressed my thoughts based on what I had heard that both would end up at UConn. On that Sunday night when EDD made her decision I recieved a call from a Tenn fans congradulating me on EDD choosing UConn. We spoke for quite sometime and the following morning it was offical. UConn landing Caroline who did attend Pats camp, EDD and Maya is what started the jealously and trouble only to backfire in Tenns face. Its sad because what once was WCBB major attraction turned out to be the demise of Tenn.

It dosnt matter what happends now, Tenn will wont be what they were for a very long time if they ever recover. UConn will be the face of WCBB for a very long time, as long as Geno is head coach and if he plans it right they wont lose a beat. I think Geno is smart enough to realize that.

 

[alexrgct]

First you said the problem was having a "new" coach. Now you've changed it to having a mediocre coach. Which is it?

Warlick was the only option. To argue TN should've (or could've) done something different ignores reality. For all we know, PHS might still be coaching, and it was only the AD who persuaded her to agree to this interim solution.

And either way, would the program really be in better shape if they announced to everyone that they were throwing overboard Summit's pick for someone else?`

There is no logical scenario under which Warlick wasnt the coach.

Um...I said new. The three schools I mentioned hired proven head coaches. Not sure why it was too difficult to decipher the premise unless you're just trying to make it difficult.

 

[Vowelguy]

Um...I said new. The three schools I mentioned hired proven head coaches. Not sure why it was too difficult to decipher the premise unless you're just trying to make it difficult.

Ah. You're referring to "new to head coaching." They're ALL new head coaches at their respective institutions.

 

[EricLA]

I share the same with thoughts on Maria..... vis a vis blind support for allegations vs our program 5 yrs ago..... others in TN have adopted the same stance..... "Pat said it, so it must be true".... never mind that 11 out of 12 charges she submitted to NCAA were unfounded..... TN fans still consider us as guilty, and don't let go of it. I agree with poster that head of the TN board shouldn't hold onto these allegations, though they have been judged to be untrue. Their board is full of the banter "We do it the honest way", the right way, etc.... I say let them hold onto whatever they want to think of as true. We will just go on and be the best.

One thing i did not know is that Tennessee actually leads that battle 2-1. they have had 2 secondary violations and we have had 1.

 

[JS]

I'll continue to read and post here as long as I am welcome!

You are. I've said before, and recently, that what you're doing can be hard -- a bit like running the gauntlet. But you're doing it well.