UNC / UT Martin (merged)

[UcMiami]

Petunia, the interesting thing to me about the flagrant call is, by every report I've seen, no foul was called on the floor. If no foul is called, do the rules allow the officials to stop play and look for one? Or, do the rules assume that a foul is called on the floor, and then the refs, if a flagrant is potentially there, are permitted a closer look? I can't recall ever seeing a stoppage in play to look for a foul without one being called during the course of play.

The refs can always look at any play to determine if a flagrant foul was committed. What they cannot do is call a regular foul after review - they can call a flagrant or say no flagrant occurred. That was probably their dilemma - they didn't see a foul live, they reviewed to see if there was a flagrant foul and decided ... gee we blew that, we should have called a foul, but we can't so ... having blown it once they doubled down by calling what was obviously a standard basketball move in which the fouled player provided all the momentum of contact a flagrant foul. SO two blown calls on the same play.
Followed by the UNC administration (and yes, that stuff is all run by the school, not the NCAA) deciding that having never told the arena that their was any danger on campus, it was critical to sound the alarm to announce that the danger had been contained and all was safe during a time-out in the last minute of the game!!!

To recap that last bit of news:
1. There is a 'mad man' on campus armed with something (a knife?) and campus is on lock down.
2. UNC determines the 2500 people at the arena don't need to know about this during the game so NO announcement of the lock down is made.
3. The 'mad man' is captured and the lock down is raised.
4. UNC determines the attendees at the game WHO NEVER KNEW THEY WERE POSSIBLY IN DANGER need to be immediately be alerted that there is no longer any danger. This warning is accompanied by a horn that sounds to tornado alley residents exactly like a tornado alert just to make sure it is doubly confusing.

Let me repeat that - Attendees do not need to know they are in danger, but as soon as they are no longer in danger we need to make sure they know.

And the refs do not see this as a 'non-basketball' type of occurrence in an arena that has disrupted their game and that an additional 30 seconds once the announcement is completed and the confusion cleared up would be warranted. Brain dead which seems to be the standard for refs.

 

[sarals24]

I didnt say you did...

you can play word games if you want, you know what I mean.

You quoted my post and said that the hate on this board for Diamond was ridiculous. How is that playing word games?

 

[Buzzyboy]

maybe any of "our girls" if on any other team would behave the same... who knows.

Id put the blame on the coach not a teenager who probably never had to answer to anyone.

the hate on Diamond on this board is ridiculous

Geno occasionally makes a mistake (as he's admitted) recruiting and I don't think there's any question that he did with regard to DD. He was probably not privy to every aspect of DD, the person due to limited interaction but the fact that she's had a number of technicals speaks volumes to her character. I don't think there's too many ways to justify a college freshman coming in to her freshman year and getting a bunch of technicals. If she had done any research on North Carolina and how they play the game in her recruiting process she would know that their philosophy is strictly run and gun and anything but a team oriented style. That suggests that she went there to "be the man" instead of concerning herself with winning games and championships. There are other schools besides UConn she could have gone to (Duke would be an example) where she could have maybe made a big enough difference to make her team a viable national championship caliber team. A team who commits to team basketball which is what her public responses had been but instead she chose UNC where their whole philosophy is "me first, second and third" and has been as long as I can remember. Run and gun and reckless, out of control basketball. They'll win a lot of basketball games because of the wealth of talent but they'll never be champions because they're too selfish and arrogant. I'm a bit of a purist and it'd be a shame to ever see a team like that succeed.

 

[DaddyChoc]

You quoted my post and said that the hate on this board for Diamond was ridiculous. How is that playing word games?

I didnt say Sarals hate Diamond.

"the hate"... dont care for, not fond of, rubs the wrong way, etc.

and my last sentence was added just cause I didnt want start a new post and I was ranting, the "hate" wasnt aimed only at you

 

[DaddyChoc]

Geno occasionally makes a mistake (as he's admitted) recruiting and I don't think there's any question that he did with regard to DD. He was probably not privy to every aspect of DD, the person due to limited interaction but the fact that she's had a number of technicals speaks volumes to her character. I don't think there's too many ways to justify a college freshman coming in to her freshman year and getting a bunch of technicals. If she had done any research on North Carolina and how they play the game in her recruiting process she would know that their philosophy is strictly run and gun and anything but a team oriented style. That suggests that she went there to "be the man" instead of concerning herself with winning games and championships. There are other schools besides UConn she could have gone to (Duke would be an example) where she could have maybe made a big enough difference to make her team a viable national championship caliber team. A team who commits to team basketball which is what her public responses had been but instead she chose UNC where their whole philosophy is "me first, second and third" and has been as long as I can remember. Run and gun and reckless, out of control basketball. They'll win a lot of basketball games because of the wealth of talent but they'll never be champions because they're too selfish and arrogant. I'm a bit of a purist and it'd be a shame to ever see a team like that succeed.

thats all good. so lets move on, are we going to show our character by nitpicking her every move.

she got chopped in the throat... some assume she was faking, geesh give me a break. the refs this the refs that... not one word about UT-M choking or the coach not adjusting, just a conspiracy between a teenager and some refs smh

 

[reno tony]

Actually, being retired doesn't mean you wouldn't make that error. At least it doesn't help me.

Well, since you are retired you can now use this as an excuse. That is of course if you are able to remember it.

5 TO GO​

 

[reno tony]

Hate is such a strong emotion and it is hard to imagine someone on this board really hating someone for some ridiculous reason. For the record, I don't hate Diamond.... but I do think she is selfish. In her defense, she may have been treated like a queen because of her skills and thinks it is all about her. She is just a nineteen year old and things can change quickly for someone at that age.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Hate is such a strong emotion and it is hard to imagine someone on this board really hating someone for some ridiculous reason. For the record, I don't hate Diamond.... but I do think she is selfish. In her defense, she may have been treated like a queen because of her skills and thinks it is all about her. She is just a nineteen year old and things can change quickly for someone at that age.

some are upset she didnt come to UConn... after drooling over her for a few years. who cares how they treat her at North Carolina, thats their problem not Geno's.

but she's the targeted player for the next 4yrs... just as CP3 then Diggins, thats the pattern I see

 

[Blueballer]

For some reason (I suppose it's because UNC out-recruited UConn last year) many here, especially some of the more intellectually challenged, seemed to have a huge emotional attachment to a possible UNC loss. That investment has resulted in the usual knee-jerk reaction of all losers, "It was the refs' fault!" No one seems to be commenting on the fact that UTM lost all composure down the stretch and blew a game they should have won.

So because we don't agree with your assesment of the flagrant, that's attributable to our collective "Sour grapes" attitude because NC
"Out-recruited" us last year. Wow that's a stretch to say the least.

 

[ocoandasoc]

Forget the announcement. Forget the flagrant foul call. Forget whether DD should have or shouldn't have chosen UConn.

The refs, for a key portion of this game, were simply out to lunch. They allowed NC to commit numerous fouls without a call. Every call that was close went to UNC. If UTM was shell shocked, it had as much to do with the refs allowing UNC to foul with impunity as any deficiency in their own game.

We see this every year. In the first round of the Women's tourney there simply aren't enough really good refs to handle all the games. In many cases, the calls all tend to go to the teams that the crowd is rooting for.

It's pointless to review individual calls -- even the best refs make mistakes. But when nearly ALL the calls are questionable, and when there are so many "non-calls," you obviously have a problem. Watch a replay of the game with an objective viewpoint and you'll see what I mean. I am neither a UTM fan or a UNC hater. But I used to run a league and hired and reviewed the refs. This was poor officiating that changed the probable outcome of the game.

 

[triaddukefan]

I will admit that if it was any other mid major that lost that way in Chapel Hill, I wouldnt have been quite as upset. But like i stated earlier... i remember when the star players from UTM were freshman and they came to Duke as a #15 seed and battled well for the first 20 minutes. Ive followed them a bit through the years.... they have become by favorite mid-major school to root for. The next year they were #15 seeds and lost vs Tennesee... and last year they were a #16 seed and got blasted by ND. They finally got a higher seed this year..... and to to see them lose in that fashion.... and to see the tears of their star senior.... and to read these quotes was just heartbreaking...


"We fought, we fought, and it's just really hard to lose that ball game when I know we deserved it, you know," Butler said. "We deserved it. We fought so hard and just had it in our hands and there it went. It hurts and it's going to hurt probably for the rest of my life but you know that's the way it goes sometimes."

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncw/recap?gameId=400547095

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncw/recap?gameId=400547095

There's not a player on the UT-Martin team that would have been recruited by NC, much less get any minutes on their team. Yet they outplayed NC today.

Actually Butler would get minutes @ UNC...... she's a top mid-major player. Finalist for the Lieberman award..... in the top 20 of all time NCAA scoring... and finished tied for the all time career 3pt'ers made.

 

[VAUConnFan]

OK lets hear you recollection because I have a tape of the game. Geno called a 4 out and gave Diana the ball to go 1 on 1 with Dales. That play put Uconn up 9 or 10 and fouled out Dales with about 2 minutes left in the NC. Sue Bird jumped into Diana's arms after the shot and I have a signed copy of that front page from the Hartford Courant hanging in my man cave. Evan if Dales was not the defender she got called for the foul. Maybe it was Roz Ross or someone else but Dales got the foul and the boot from the game.

If you have the tape, then watch the play again. My recollection does not come close to yours until the last sentence, and I can tell you it was not Ms Ross.

 

[Tonyc]

Gotta wonder with the late calls in both the mens and womens game for UNC. The flagrant foul, then the no calls against UNC then the no calls ?????? I wasnt rooting for anyone just watching the game. Why go to the replay then call it a flagrant and not a foul when it wasnt called when it happened?

Then the mens game no call for a time out and then a look at the replay I wouldve bet if it was in UNC there wouldve been a couple of seconds on the clock.

Someone keeps post U Cheat. I can see why after yesterday.

 

[VAUConnFan]

Screwed indeed -- but instead of experiencing the customary genital satisfaction, there is a vital need to schedule a visit to a proctologist.

Such a way with words. I love it!

 

[BooRadley]

I didnt say you did...

you can play word games if you want, you know what I mean.

It wasn't Sarals getting sloppy with words, it was you... Over the years, you have a built quite a habit of tossing around the word "hate" as if you are a tweener caught in some coolness vortex. You do it with such ease and condescension that I've come to believe that you may be oblivious to your own use of it; in any event, given that you are a not fad fixated tweener, it is a habit that you may want to consider growing beyond and dropping. Just say and write what you actually mean and forum life goes on a bit smoother for us all.

YOPB

 

[meyers7]

but she's the targeted player for the next 4yrs... just as CP3 then Diggins, thats the pattern I see

This is sports, what's the problem with that?

 

[calpedaler]

I'm so glad we have poster here to tell me what I should post.

 

[reno tony]

If you have the tape, then watch the play again. My recollection does not come close to yours until the last sentence, and I can tell you it was not Ms Ross.

There is a video of the play on another thread and Jackson was covering DT. But Dales came over to help when DT went up for the shot and fouled D. But Dales wasn't covering D. I will try to find the video and attach it to this post.
Got this from another poster, it is at about the 4 minute mark.

 

[doggydaddy]

some are upset she didnt come to UConn... after drooling over her for a few years. who cares how they treat her at North Carolina, thats their problem not Geno's.

but she's the targeted player for the next 4yrs... just as CP3 then Diggins, thats the pattern I see

The pattern I see is you finding another non-Uconn player to defend against any criticisms.

Why?

 

[DaddyChoc]

It wasn't Sarals getting sloppy with words, it was you... Over the years, you have a built quite a habit of tossing around the word "hate" as if you are a tweener caught in some coolness vortex. You do it with such ease and condescension that I've come to believe that you may be oblivious to your own use of it; in any event, given that you are a not fad fixated tweener, it is a habit that you may want to consider growing beyond and dropping. Just say and write what you actually mean and forum life goes on a bit smoother for us all.

YOPB

I am a tweener... I roll with youngsters so my definition of hate may be a lil different from what you're use to. As smart as you are I'm sure you understand what I mean, as you has adjusted to my style over the years. I'm not making anything smooth for anyone who nitpicks on a player because they decided not to come to UConn. Diamond is UNC problem not Geno's

 

[DaddyChoc]

The pattern I see is you finding another non-Uconn player to defend against any criticisms.

Why?

Good Morning DD... I believe no player's attitude or demeanor etc should be a topic because we have no idea about that player. If you want to say she doesn't have good arch on her jumper cool... but to tarnish someone character to over the line based on watching them play basketball on television. Do you know what people think of you based one few message board comment, I'm sure those that know you think you're sweet as pie.

 

[doggydaddy]

Good Morning DD... I believe no player's attitude or demeanor etc should be a topic because we have no idea about that player. If you want to say she doesn't have good arch on her jumper cool... but to tarnish someone character to over the line based on watching them play basketball on television. Do you know what people think of you based one few message board comment, I'm sure those that know you think you're sweet as pie.

I don't know why you felt the need to post that last sentence. This has nothing to do with me.

For 4 years you defended Parker's occasional poor behavior. You defended Diggins occasional poor behavior. Now it's DeSheids occasion poor behavior.

It's clear that it existed. It's just not watching them play. It's interviews as well.

You were ok when DeSheilds said that the opponents should be embarrassed to lose to a bunch of freshman? Not cool.

Hopefully she will grow up. Maybe the publicity of her behavior will help speed that up. She is an amazing player.

You blame it on the coaches. That is a cop out. The players are young but no matter what, they are responsible for their behavior.

 

[doggydaddy]

I am a tweener... I roll with youngsters so my definition of hate may be a lil different from what you're use to. As smart as you are I'm sure you understand what I mean, as you has adjusted to my style over the years. I'm not making anything smooth for anyone who nitpicks on a player because they decided not to come to UConn. Diamond is UNC problem not Geno's

Roll with youngsters?

I find your interpretation of why posters criticize DeShields insulting. You have NO proof that any poster is criticizing her because she didn't choose UConn. I'm thinking she would get the same attention, just like Parker and Diggins, if she never considered Uconn.

The thing those three have in common is their occasional attitude that rubs folks the wrong way. I felt the same about Latta. I'm sure there are others.

Yeah, I know, DT. She appears to be the exception. Can't think of any other Uconn players with attitudes like that.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Roll with youngsters?

I find your interpretation of why posters criticize DeShields insulting. You have NO proof that any poster is criticizing her because she didn't choose UConn

you think they'll admit that, come on DD...

 

[doggydaddy]

you think they'll admit that, come on DD...

It's unfair of you to say that when you don't point out the specific poster.

You are only guessing that is their reason.