Umass no longer playing FB in MAC?

[btstimpy]

Who ever said above they may replace UConn when they head for greener pastures make's good sense if they(UMass) thought a midwestern conference's traveling expense's is "a bad fit".....is the AAC not more spread out and travel more expensive and time consuming? I smell something's up only those in the know know about !?!

Seems that they only want to find a home for football. They like keeping everything else in the A10 for travel.

 

[whaler11]

UMass is betting the house that we are out of the AAC in 2 years.

Or they are betting Navy falls through.

 

[Vuce]

Is UMass really this bad? UVA played them a few years back in the Men's Lacrosse National Championship game, so they must have decent lacrosse. I think they have decent men's basketball. I don't know much else because they don't get coverage this far south other than some basketball games with VCU. I know they are struggling a bit with transitioning to FBS football. They kind of have Temple's problem with playing in a NFL stadium. Tulane also had this problem, but Tulane is addressing it.

Yes they are that bad. They made the NCAA tourney this year for the first time in 16 years and haven't won a game in it in 18 years. No one outside of folks in western Mass really follow them so the people that are touting then bringing in the Boston market don't know what they are talking about. Obviously lacrosse doesn't count for anything in conf realignment so no reason to even comment on that. In football they play in the Patriots stadium which is TWO HOURS from their campus. They are actually much closer to Uconns home field. They just spent a few million dollars improving their on campus stadium but didn't add any seats. Just some stuff with the press box and other things. They would be a drag on an already putrid conference.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Interesting. A flagship state school decided to not drag down their entire athletic department just because it would be easier to fill out a football schedule in a far flung league where they don't fit.

 

[whaler11]

Well the MAC isn't really anymore far flung than the A-10. Unless St Louis moved a few hundred miles east.

 

[gorskic]

Is UMass really this bad? UVA played them a few years back in the Men's Lacrosse National Championship game, so they must have decent lacrosse. I think they have decent men's basketball.

UMass is a lacrosse power. That is true. Unfortunately that's about where their athletic programs end.

I won't belabor basketball, but their other programs are pretty atrocious. Let's take the example of men's hockey (ice hockey to you southerners). They've been in Hockey East for what, 15 years now? They started off at the bottom of the league and have only gotten worse since. In all that time they've sent only one notable player to the NHL--Jonathan Quick (from Connecticut).

In many ways UMass is substantially where UConn was 25 years ago or so. The campus is still kind of run down and most of the buildings are of the 60's and 70's vintage. Because they're out in Western Massachusetts they don't get a lot of attention and support from the state legislature. Remember, Bostonians (who run the state) are mind-blowingly provincial. To them, UMass Boston is UMass, despite Amherst's alleged flagship status.

To be honest, I don't see things changing for UMass in terms of state support the way they have for UConn.

Sorry for the long reply.

 

[whaler11]

They could in theory be #12 for the Sun Belt.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

That is funny. Seems strange to look at state flagship schools in highly populated states and see an AD that plays in A-10 type conferences. There is really no other part of the country that does this.

Mass is an unusual state
The greater Boston area is home to a plethora of Schools ,and a good deal of the state population barely acknowledges UMass. When you have Harvard,MIT,BC,BU, and Northeastern all within subway distance a school 90 miles away has very little impact. I think The UConn campus is closer to Boston than UMass.
Connecticut 40 years ago was somewhat similar with Yale, but UConn managed to win the entire state. The number one sport in Boston is Hockey.
UMass Lowell is usually better in Hockey than UMass Amherst.

 

[UConnJim]

Unfortunately, UMass does not have support within their own state and they are a geographical outlier in Massachusetts. I don't know how many times it has to be said, but people do not care about UMass athletics, especially the people who live close to Boston.

They are a bad fit for FBS football and I predict they drop down to FCS in 2 to 5 years.

 

[CL82]

The AAC has 12. The only way umass gets an invite is if we leave for the ACC/Big 10.

If that's the case then they are not a terrible fit and I no longer care.

 

[Fishy]

UMass has always been in a tough spot - they're the flagship university in a state that refuses to recognize a flagship.

They're 100 miles from Boston in the hills of western Massachusetts and I'd almost characterize the state's relationship to UMass being almost hostile.

It's kinda f---ed up, actually.

 

[okielite]

The number of private schools in the northeast makes it so the state flagship schools aren't the same as they are in other parts of the country. Notice that both BC and Syracuse are in power conferences and draw considerably more fan support than their respective states' flagship universities.

And the football support for Cuse and BC is marginal at best as many power conference programs draw at least double what these schools do.

 

[btstimpy]

The number of private schools in the northeast makes it so the state flagship schools aren't the same as they are in other parts of the country. Notice that both BC and Syracuse are in power conferences and draw considerably more fan support than their respective states' flagship universities.

My observation is that major college football in the Northeast has 2 teams (Notre Dame and Penn State). Everyone else plays football for their home alumni, has smaller stadiums, travels rather poorly, and gets more bang out of basketball in terms of passion. Football in the northeast is primarily played in the NFL.

The former Big East football schools in the Northeast, of which the ACC now has 3, compete at the FBS level as does Army and Navy. They were the regional rivals that Penn State beat up on for years after the Ivys de-emphasized football. Then there are a bunch of FCS schools like New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Maine, Lehigh, Delaware, Fordham, Villanova, the Ivy League, etc. UMass wants to get up to that FBS level where the AAC is and the MAC is. I don't know why the MAC didn't want to continue to allow them to keep doing what they were doing for a while longer. Something must be up with that.

 

[Gregory Koch]

I hope they go to the AAC. By which I mean I hope UConn leaves the AAC for a better conference, in which case UMass seems like a logical team to replace us.

 

[whaler11]

My observation is that major college football in the Northeast has 2 teams (Notre Dame and Penn State). Everyone else plays football for their home alumni, has smaller stadiums, travels rather poorly, and gets more bang out of basketball in terms of passion. Football in the northeast is primarily played in the NFL.

The former Big East football schools in the Northeast, of which the ACC now has 3, compete at the FBS level as does Army and Navy. They were the regional rivals that Penn State beat up on for years after the Ivys de-emphasized football. Then there are a bunch of FCS schools like New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Maine, Lehigh, Delaware, Fordham, Villanova, the Ivy League, etc. UMass wants to get up to that FBS level where the AAC is and the MAC is. I don't know why the MAC didn't want to continue to allow them to keep doing what they were doing for a while longer. Something must be up with that.

Because 13 is a stupid number of teams in a football league, when the 13th is 2-22 and keeps their better programs elsewhere.

 

[NickyNewark]

Yes they are that bad. They made the NCAA tourney this year for the first time in 16 years and haven't won a game in it in 18 years. No one outside of folks in western Mass really follow them so the people that are touting then bringing in the Boston market don't know what they are talking about. Obviously lacrosse doesn't count for anything in conf realignment so no reason to even comment on that. In football they play in the Patriots stadium which is TWO HOURS from their campus. They are actually much closer to Uconns home field. They just spent a few million dollars improving their on campus stadium but didn't add any seats. Just some stuff with the press box and other things. They would be a drag on an already putrid conference.

Lax is important to bstimp because his Cav's are pretty decent in the sport and he's all about the Director's club. He's not really "in touch" with the mindset of NE college sport's fan but at least he's consistent, snobbishly stubborn and unflappably ignorant .....the other ACC plant play's his white knight !! I find listening to them a lesson in the Art of War(pyschological) amusingly hilarious. Their both wearing an invisible innocent "halo" and strive to school us on the greatness of the ACC as some super-P5 conference whilst saying all the thing's they think we want to hear. I've come to the conclusion after much thought though stimp is the more sincere and less deceptive than his compadre. Interesting "deadly duo" ha ha from the south san's the buggy whip.

 

[NickyNewark]

And the football support for Cuse and BC is marginal at best as many power conference programs draw at least double what these schools do.

Stimp has marginal understanding of CFB in the NE as he consider's SU and BC as some kinda of eastern power's or "rival" of PSU yet ask him SU's record against PSU in the last(or only) 24 times they played...I believe w/o checking PSU 22 and SU 2 ? Maybe his view is jaded by the fact he's a longtime member of their board.

 

[pj]

Being from the Midwest I dont' know much about UMass but it seems like a state flagship school in a highly populated state would be much more valuable. Heck in the whole country there are not that many state flagship schools who are not in a power conference and most of those are in low population states like Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, North Dakota, South Dakota, New Mexico. There is also a concentration in the NE with schools like UConn, UMass, Rutgers(for now), Delaware, New Hampshire, Vermont, and NY. Clearly UConn has teh best AD in that list by a wide margin. Those states dont' have the population issue that the mountain states do but for some reason they are not in power conferences and in some cases are in mid major conferences and leagues. Why is it that there are so many NE state flagship schools with mid major athletic departments? Is it just another situation where people in the NE dont' care about college football? $? No talent in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Delaware? Is high school football popular up there?

Traditionally private colleges got 90% of the students in New England and 75% in NY-NJ, while the Ivies got 90% of the federal research funding, so states didn't invest much in the public universities, they were small at both the undergrad and grad level. Whereas in the Midwest, West, and South, state universities got most of the middle-tier students and most of the research funding, which the federal government had to spread around to every state. As research funds provided income, universities were able to grow quite large.

 

[junglehusky]

MassLive article

McCutcheon stressed that the decision to leave the MAC does not indicate a desire to leave the FBS and return to the Football Championship Subdivision, despite a sentiment among some fans and school personnel that the team should make a move back down.

"We're focused on our commitment to the FBS level, which we are resolute about," he said. "We will aggressively be exploring alternate options for football and the entire athletic program."

McCutcheon wasn't concerned that the decision to leave the MAC might appear to some as a wavering of support for the move to the FBS.

"We can't control what some people are going to think or how they're going to view this," he said. "The only thing we can say is that we're committed to football at the FBS level. We think it's the appropriate position for us to position football as the state's flagship campus."

McCutcheon said any speculation as to potential conference fits – Conference USA or the newly-formed American Athletic Conference have been rumored for some time – or whether the football team would proceed as an independent program after 2015 in the case a new home isn't found would be "premature at this point."

"We have been exploring other opportunities – and again, it would be premature to talk about which particular conferences or which type of alignments those may be – but now that we are in this position, we can more aggressively and openly go out and and explore and pursue and talk with folks about what might be available to us," he said. "I think the overall university, the tradition and national respect there is for the University of Massachusetts and our athletic programs across the board will make us a very attractive brand that many conference will want to affiliate with.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

UMass has always been in a tough spot - they're the flagship university in a state that refuses to recognize a flagship.

They're 100 miles from Boston in the hills of western Massachusetts and I'd almost characterize the state's relationship to UMass being almost hostile.

It's kinda f---ed up, actually.

Too many in Massachusetts and Boston in particular, Massachusetts ends at I-495 or maybe Worcester, tops. Amherst is in New York or Ohio to the politicians on Beacon Hill. It serves as a safety school in the eyes of most parents, just like UConn was 20/30 years ago, and its support and funding reflects such. Plus, the academic side of the school is very liberal and conformational and would like nothing more to sink the entire athletic program, especially football as their program has been in the red for decades.

 

[btstimpy]

Because 13 is a stupid number of teams in a football league, when the 13th is 2-22 and keeps their better programs elsewhere.

2-22 playing in the MAC is problematic at best. It would suggest a coaching change requirement at the least. Xs and Os are an issue as well as recruiting talent. There are some good teams in the MAC, but 10-14 looks more reasonable for a bad team in the MAC. 2-22 is ridiculous.

 

[btstimpy]

Stimp has marginal understanding of CFB in the NE as he consider's SU and BC as some kinda of eastern power's or "rival" of PSU yet ask him SU's record against PSU in the last(or only) 24 times they played...I believe w/o checking PSU 22 and SU 2 ? Maybe his view is jaded by the fact he's a longtime member of their board.

Penn State just played Syracuse in football in 2013, and I was on the Penn State board right after that when B1G fans from Purdue and Ohio State posted on the Penn State board that Syracuse is no rival of Penn State. You would be shocked Nicky with how many Penn State fans crucified the Big Ten posters for suggesting such a thing. The Big Ten folks were told in no uncertain terms that they are clueless as to who Penn State's rivals are. Syracuse is one in the minds of many of the Penn State fans. If the series record is that bad, I don't quite know why. So is Pittsburgh by the way.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Penn State just played Syracuse in football in 2013, and I was on the Penn State board right after that when B1G fans from Purdue and Ohio State posted on the Penn State board that Syracuse is no rival of Penn State. You would be shocked Nicky with how many Penn State fans crucified the Big Ten posters for suggesting such a thing. The Big Ten folks were told in no uncertain terms that they are clueless as to who Penn State's rivals are. Syracuse is one in the minds of many of the Penn State fans. If the series record is that bad, I don't quite know why. So is Pittsburgh by the way.

College rivalries, as least pre TV driven conference realignment, are driven by groups of friends from the same high school who end up at different schools. Thus, I am not surprised that Penn State views Syracuse as a more of a rival overall than Indiana, Minnesota, etc. because most students at Penn State have friends at Syracuse, Pitt, etc. and not the B1G schools. Those are the schools that Penn State students visit on weekend road trips with, trash talking their friends at the game, and then playing beer die with them after. It’s the same reason why when I was at UConn, our rivals were BC, Syracuse and Providence, URI, UNH because that is where my peers went. Today, it’s still Syracuse and BD; but the old Yankee and Big E Catholics schools have been replaced by Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State, etc.

 

[Vuce]

http://www.masslive.com/sports/inde...itiv.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-1

"As a rule, FBS schools don't leave one league until they are sure of their next one. That is not the case with UMass, which has little to offer unless it caves in and joins another league in all sports - which could wind up as a desperate, no-choice solution down the road.
Can it offer the Boston market? Check the Gillette attendance figures and the 2014 schedule (with three games moved back in Amherst) for your answer."

 

[btstimpy]

Well the MAC isn't really anymore far flung than the A-10. Unless St Louis moved a few hundred miles east.

Any chance of a mass move within CAA football to upgrade to FBS? Could Maine, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Delaware, James Madison, Albany, and Stonybrook all upgrade at once? That could create the league UMass would like.

Otherwise it's the AAC or C-USA. Both of these require travel to Florida and Texas.

 

[whaler11]

Any chance of a mass move within CAA football to upgrade to FBS? Could Maine, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Delaware, James Madison, Albany, and Stonybrook all upgrade at once? That could create the league UMass would like.

Otherwise it's the AAC or C-USA. Both of these require travel to Florida and Texas.

Rhode Island already tried to downgrade to 40 scholarships and the NEC but came back to the CAA.

Highly doubt anymore than one or two of those schools is even seriously comtemplating it.

 

[pepband99]

Interesting. A flagship state school decided to not drag down their entire athletic department just because it would be easier to fill out a football schedule in a far flung league where they don't fit.

1) Call me when they declare they're going independent. Then you can:
2) Watch the dumpster fire of UMass athletics grow, and see what you're suggesting for UConn, you dope.

 

[Murph]

Any chance of a mass move within CAA football to upgrade to FBS? Could Maine, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Delaware, James Madison, Albany, and Stonybrook all upgrade at once? That could create the league UMass would like.

Otherwise it's the AAC or C-USA. Both of these require travel to Florida and Texas.

It's expensive, but wouldn't you WANT to go to TEX and FLA for recruiting purposes?

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Any chance of a mass move within CAA football to upgrade to FBS? Could Maine, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Delaware, James Madison, Albany, and Stonybrook all upgrade at once? That could create the league UMass would like.

Otherwise it's the AAC or C-USA. Both of these require travel to Florida and Texas.

The U Maine system has about a $36 million deficit right now and are cutting 200 positions, including faculty. They do not have the money nor the stomach to upgrade football. URI has been going back and forth about cutting scholarships. New Hampshire I believe has the lowest per capita funding of higher education in the country, so UNH would have to find a donor to upgrade football, which is not likely unless Chip Kelly suddenly felt generous. Thus, unless a miracle happens, UConn and BC are going to be the only college major football programs in New England in the foreseeable future.

 

[billybud]

Maine is at .74 of the national average on higher ed public spending (FY 2011).....Fla is at .77, as a comparison.

Massachusetts is one of the lower tier public spending states per capita in the country...at .66 the national average in public spending per capita.