UConn to B1G expansion scenario

[HuskyHawk]

No beat writers for UConn, no beat writers for St. John's, no beat writers for Rutgers. A lot of college sports writers who do write a lot on UConn, StJ and Rutgers though. But I don't think you can compare. The NY Post sells to millions who have no interest in college sports. Also, you can't compare the Indianapolis Star to NY. Nor St. Louis. These are tiny cities by comparison.

UConn used to have 15 or more beat writers assigned to it a decade ago before the newspaper business died. They called them the "Horde." There are still several around, I forget how many. Maybe 7?

Back then, UConn had more dedicated beat writers than any other school in the country, and it wasn't close. Our road opponents bitched constantly about having to handle a media contingent for every game that was more like what you'd expect for an NCAA tournament game. Now with bloggers and all the electronic media I'm sure it has changed. But you do absolutely see coverage of UConn in the Times, Post, Boston Globe and Herald. The Globe seems particularly fascinated by the UConn women and almost treats them like a home town team.

 

[frankthetank]

There are big differences in the comparison. Most Illini are from N. Illinois. After they leave their time in C.-U. they head often to Chicago. But when it comes to the relationship of Rutgers to NYC, things are entirely different. UConn grads, if they don't stay in Hartford/New Haven/Stamford, head to Boston and New York. The state of NY itself has four university centers, so there is no central flagship as in Illinois.

That sounds akin to Indiana and Purdue, then. They both are the major public institutions in a state that's part of the Chicago area (remember that Northwest Indiana accounts for about 1 million people as part of the Chicago metro area population) with a significant number of out-of-state students (mostly from the Illinois side of the Chicago area) and most of the grads that don't end up in Indianapolis will head to Chicago (whether or not they're originally from that region) with some others heading off to Cincinnati, Louisville or the East Coast. (Indiana in particular has also been matriculating a ton of NYC-area students lately.) So, Indiana and Purdue have a *ton* of alums in the Chicago area (outside of the in-state schools, only Iowa would have more), but they aren't treated as being able to "deliver" the Chicago market. They provide a "presence" there (and when combined with all of the other Big Ten alums in Chicago, that allows the conference to "deliver" the market), but they aren't considered to be local teams in the way that Notre Dame (another Indiana school that's not much closer to Chicago distance-wise than Purdue) is.

 

[upstater]

That sounds akin to Indiana and Purdue, then. They both are the major public institutions in a state that's part of the Chicago area (remember that Northwest Indiana accounts for about 1 million people as part of the Chicago metro area population) with a significant number of out-of-state students (mostly from the Illinois side of the Chicago area) and most of the grads that don't end up in Indianapolis will head to Chicago (whether or not they're originally from that region) with some others heading off to Cincinnati, Louisville or the East Coast. (Indiana in particular has also been matriculating a ton of NYC-area students lately.) So, Indiana and Purdue have a *ton* of alums in the Chicago area (outside of the in-state schools, only Iowa would have more), but they aren't treated as being able to "deliver" the Chicago market. They provide a "presence" there (and when combined with all of the other Big Ten alums in Chicago, that allows the conference to "deliver" the market), but they aren't considered to be local teams in the way that Notre Dame (another Indiana school that's not much closer to Chicago distance-wise than Purdue) is.

I would say that's right. No one owns the market. but also because there are no huge institutions playing bigtime football, no team has captured the hearts of NYC--which is filled with transplants anyway. Presumably Rutgers could have, but instead it's been Penn State and Notre Dame football that carried NYC. Growing up, PSU was big in the northeast as well. Now, not so much.

as for basketball, UConn holds as much sway in the city as ND does for football. Lots of NY kids look up to UConn because they are the dominant school. WFAN 550 will do segments on the school more often than any others (once a month during the season). Otherwise, they don't talk about college sports.

 

[HuskyHawk]

That sounds akin to Indiana and Purdue, then. They both are the major public institutions in a state that's part of the Chicago area (remember that Northwest Indiana accounts for about 1 million people as part of the Chicago metro area population) with a significant number of out-of-state students (mostly from the Illinois side of the Chicago area) and most of the grads that don't end up in Indianapolis will head to Chicago (whether or not they're originally from that region) with some others heading off to Cincinnati, Louisville or the East. (Indiana in particular has also been matriculating a ton of NYC-area students lately.) So, Indiana and Purdue have a *ton* of alums in the Chicago area (outside of the in-state schools, only Iowa would have more), but they aren't treated as being able to "deliver" the Chicago market. They provide a "presence" there (and when combined with all of the other Big Ten alums in Chicago, that allows the conference to "deliver" the market), but they aren't considered to be local teams in the way that Notre Dame (another Indiana school that's not much closer to Chicago distance-wise than Purdue) is.

Frank, it's exactly like that with one critical difference. There is no local team. Imagine that Notre Dame, Illinois and Northwestern all had no more pull in Chicago than Indiana, Iowa, Purdue and Wisconsin. Then your list for NYC would be UConn, Rutgers and Notre Dame at the top of the list, with Syracuse and Penn State probably next among schools that play football. UConn I think gets top billing on the basketball side, and Notre Dame for football.

The suggestion that somehow people in Manhatten, Brooklyn, Queens, LI, Westchester Cty (let alone Fairfield) embrace Rutgers as the "home team" akin to Illinois in Chicago is not accurate. That's why we keep suggesting that if the B1G wants to make NYC a B1G town, with BTN on in every sports bar, it needs a package of several schools. Rutgers, Penn State, Ohio State and Michigan is a start.

 

[upstater]

Frank, it's exactly like that with one critical difference. There is no local team. Imagine that Notre Dame, Illinois and Northwestern all had no more pull in Chicago than Indiana, Iowa, Purdue and Wisconsin. Then your list for NYC would be UConn, Rutgers and Notre Dame at the top of the list, with Syracuse and Penn State probably next among schools that play football. UConn I think gets top billing on the basketball side, and Notre Dame for football.

The suggestion that somehow people in Manhatten, Brooklyn, Queens, LI, Westchester Cty (let alone Fairfield) embrace Rutgers as the "home team" akin to Illinois in Chicago is not accurate. That's why we keep suggesting that if the B1G wants to make NYC a B1G town, with BTN on in every sports bar, it needs a package of several schools. Rutgers, Penn State, Ohio State and Michigan is a start.

One caveat. Illinois is certainly more popular in Chicago than Rutgers is in NYC. There's a difference there.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

And it's going to cost them even more when the temporary tax credit of $15 million a year isn't renewed in a few years, and the savings are sent directly to UConn's AD!

1) Ain't gonna happen.
2) $15 million is pocket lint, lost in the rounding.

 

[UPitt]

The ACC needs to add UConn and West Virginia for 17.

I don't think they will add 2 teams unless one is ND (football). Unrealistic or not, the ACC will not officially close the door on ND. The Big 10 w/11 held a spot for years as well. I also think the ACC will never consider WVU. Living in an area that covers WVU as well, I got to follow WVU applying to the ACC and SEC a couple years ago. The "insiders" quoted in the local papers indicated that WVU would never be considered for the ACC and the SEC was a long shot.

Uconn on the other hand would be a good addition to the ACC. I think Uconn fits much better in the ACC than the B1G. They will be with similar sized programs (No OSU, Michigan, PSU). Uconn may not add football value to the ACC, but they do not detract from it either. The ACC has several natural rivals, the B1G only has RU. Like Frank said, the B1G fan base wants to play OSU, Mich, PSU, Wisky, and Nebraska every year. To some fan bases in the B1G Uconn would be lumped with Maryland and Rutgers as the party crashes that took OSU or PSU off the schedule this year. In the ACC, teams like BC, Pitt, Cuse, and Ville would like to have Uconn on the schedule over Duke or Wake or maybe even GT, Virginia, and NCST because we have no history with them.

Those are just a few reasons I would like to see Uconn in the ACC over the B1G. I do think the Uconn needing a partner is also an issue in the ACC. The ACC is more likely to add a single team because of the ND situation, but if they look to add 2 for football, who would be Uconn's partner? The options for a dance partner to the ACC are very limited (much more limited than the B1G) and as Frank said, conferences may be looking to add football power this time around. WVU's football would be a good partner if it didn't come with the WVU acedemics and WVU fan base.

I still think Uconn is in the ACC plans. After B1G signs a new contract and ACC network launches, the ACC could use Uconn to re-evaluate the ESPN contract to and pull in a few more million for each school.

 

[upstater]

1) Ain't gonna happen.
2) $15 million is pocket lint, lost in the rounding.

If 2 is true, then 1 doesn't matter, and if 1 doesn't matter, then it's easy to do, and if it's easy to do, it should be done, and it will help UConn.

I don't get this claim though that it's not going to happen. Based on what? All states stop temporary tax abatements. It happens all the time. so what are you basing it on?

 

[upstater]

I don't think they will add 2 teams unless one is ND (football). Unrealistic or not, the ACC will not officially close the door on ND. The Big 10 w/11 held a spot for years as well. I also think the ACC will never consider WVU. Living in an area that covers WVU as well, I got to follow WVU applying to the ACC and SEC a couple years ago. The "insiders" quoted in the local papers indicated that WVU would never be considered for the ACC and the SEC was a long shot.

Uconn on the other hand would be a good addition to the ACC. I think Uconn fits much better in the ACC than the B1G. They will be with similar sized programs (No OSU, Michigan, PSU). Uconn may not add football value to the ACC, but they do not detract from it either. The ACC has several natural rivals, the B1G only has RU. Like Frank said, the B1G fan base wants to play OSU, Mich, PSU, Wisky, and Nebraska every year. To some fan bases in the B1G Uconn would be lumped with Maryland and Rutgers as the party crashes that took OSU or PSU off the schedule this year. In the ACC, teams like BC, Pitt, Cuse, and Ville would like to have Uconn on the schedule over Duke or Wake or maybe even GT, Virginia, and NCST because we have no history with them.

Those are just a few reasons I would like to see Uconn in the ACC over the B1G. I do think the Uconn needing a partner is also an issue in the ACC. The ACC is more likely to add a single team because of the ND situation, but if they look to add 2 for football, who would be Uconn's partner? The options for a dance partner to the ACC are very limited (much more limited than the B1G) and as Frank said, conferences may be looking to add football power this time around. WVU's football would be a good partner if it didn't come with the WVU acedemics and WVU fan base.

I still think Uconn is in the ACC plans. After B1G signs a new contract and ACC network launches, the ACC could use Uconn to re-evaluate the ESPN contract to and pull in a few more million for each school.

As I said, the ACC bubble against WVa burst when it invited Louisville.

 

[specialisthusky]

I still think Uconn is in the ACC plans. After B1G signs a new contract and ACC network launches, the ACC could use Uconn to re-evaluate the ESPN contract to and pull in a few more million for each school.

Definitly, only it's Plan Z. Right after Plan A launching the ACC network fails and Plan B waiting or ND to join full time for the next 15 years along with 23 other plans.

The ACC wants nothing to do with UConn. BC and Cuse don't want to play us and the rest of the conference passed on UConn 3 times where arguments can be made it was the favorite to be realigned.

The ACC isn't adding UConn.

 

[UPitt]

As I said, the ACC bubble against WVa burst when it invited Louisville.

Louisville is not WVU. Have you been to Morgantown? I have and words can not describe that place. And it sucks for travel as the nearest real airport is Pittsburgh. Many teams fly into Pittsburgh and then drive over an hour to Morgantown.

 

[HuskyHawk]

One caveat. Illinois is certainly more popular in Chicago than Rutgers is in NYC. There's a difference there.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. There is nobody in NY with the pull of Illinois or ND in Chicago. Nobody. I think we're saying the same thing (I posted before seeing yours update).

 

[upstater]

Louisville is not WVU. Have you been to Morgantown? I have and words can not describe that place. And it sucks for travel as the nearest real airport is Pittsburgh. Many teams fly into Pittsburgh and then drive over an hour to Morgantown.

Eh, and it's 45 minutes driving from Bradley to Storrs as well, or how about Clemson? No big airports anywhere near. Or RDU to Wake Forest? An hour. Virginia Tech? Not exactly a big burg. For VT and Charlottesville and Pitt, Morgantown is just a drive.

 

[Fishy]

All states stop temporary tax abatements. It happens all the time. so what are you basing it on?

The tax exemption was permanent.

ESPN had a standard to meet for a permanent exemption and they met it.

I'm not sure the West Virginia blockade in the ACC isn't still there. If they had been on the tree when Maryland left, perhaps the chaos that invited UL would have resulted in WV being invited instead.

I think we're under the perception that these schools presidents know what they're doing. West Virginia was unacceptable to the ACC because of their academics - and probably because of the state's backwards reputation. But in the end, they wind up with Louisville which is probably every bit as lousy as school as WV and in a state that's just as backwards.

But I still think those North Carolinian presidents will never willingly associate themselves with West Virginia.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

I don't necessarily agree or disagree, but am bemused with the dogged determination with which our shortcomings are served to us.

I think we should take up a collection and fly you to UConn for a weekend.

Someone should have been pointing out shortcomings to the powers-that-be years ago. More importantly, someone should have been listening. It's one thing for we, as fans, to think of UCONN as a "no-brainer." What %$# do we know? It's quite another for those managing the school to think the school's "laurels" allow rest. Every Business Plan ever written and every corporation's annual planning process identifies weaknesses and shortcomings. Weaknesses and shortcomings are always prevalent and no company or investor wants to discover them the hard way; like UCONN and we have.

 

[upstater]

This really sucks because the ACC is the best place for UConn.

Yeah, it would be good to be in the Big12, but face it, it would suck to travel to play Iowa st and Kansas St and Baylor and Texas Tech (did I miss anyone?). I'm sure it would suck for them to travel to Storrs as well.

Unless B1G basketball collapses and bows down to the ACC (and Ollie wins a championship) I don't see the B1G as desperate enough to add Uconn.

Really, it's the damn ACC.

This AAC conference better ramp up its game in basketball quick.

 

[CL82]

The fact that NJ is split between the NYC and Philly DMAs is an anomaly, one that I suggest would not motivate a knowledgeable 'consumer' and I think we can be confident that Delaney has much more refined data than you or I have access to. What matters is total households and there RU delivers due to the population density in northern NJ. Again, I am confident that the analysis to invite RU to the B1G was based upon that level of detail. Connecticut brings both Fairfield county and the Hartford/New Haven DMAs.

That is a lot of households. I sure that is basis of the Delaney's (supposed) review of the impact of Connecticut as a member institution. The DMA is an outdated concept based upon broadcast distances.

The information I listed regarding UConn's academic metric compared to existing AAU schools shows that UConn is already a 'comparable' institution. Now keep in mind, Frank that those numbers are before the new UConn Tech Park an $132 million dollar R&D facility designed for research in advanced manufacturing, materials, cyber-infrastructure, pharmaceuticals, biotechnology, with another $40 million in advanced equipment approved by the legislature. It is also before the new Eminent Faculty Program which will add an additional 25 to 30 new faculty and staff members.


It is also before the GE Center of Excellence which is $.7 million dollar partnership that will feature:

$1.5M Professorships

$2.7M Graduate Fellowships

$3.3M Research Grants/Equipment

Advanced Man, Materials & Contacts

Composite Molding

Materials by Design

Magnetics, Arc Interruption & Thermal Performance

Materials Joining Process

Advanced Modeling for Thermal Management
...to be continued.

I had to stop early, but I'll finish now.

It was also before the State of Connecticut and JAX labs investment of $865 million and $1.1 billion, respectively, in new research and clinical facilities with and emphasis on new diagnostics, devices, & treatments for personalized medicine.

I could go on and talk about the Institute for Systems Genomics and the Institute for Creativity, Innovation & Entrepreneurship but you get the idea. Those rankings above are before millions upon millions in new investment and UConn already are comparable to existing AAU members. What do you think will happen to those rankings after this investment in research facilities and top professors has a chance to take hold?

Frank you think you understand us, but I would suggest that you have no idea who we are. We went from being a regional power in basketball to being one of the two best over the last decade and a half. We became the dominant power in woman's basketball. We made the fastest accent to a BCS bowl that I can remember and won our conference twice in our first 10 years. Academically our assent has been meteoric.

When this university and this state sets their minds toward a goal, it happens. It just is that simple and we've seen it time and again. It sure seems like it is happening now regarding the decision to become a top research institution. It's not going to be easy. It will take time, but it certainly happen given the money being invested and the state support that we have.

You have a reoccurring theme that we weight ourselves too heavily. I am sure that you are correct, as I believe that true of pretty much everyone. I would say however that you rate us far, far too lightly. Time will tell who is correct.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

If 2 is true, then 1 doesn't matter, and if 1 doesn't matter, then it's easy to do, and if it's easy to do, it should be done, and it will help UConn.

I don't get this claim though that it's not going to happen. Based on what? All states stop temporary tax abatements. It happens all the time. so what are you basing it on?

As to1: see recent post above/below (somewhere, I ain't lookin) by someone (Fishy?) related to "renewals."
" " 2: see Disney "Annual Report." $15 million is couch cushion change.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

I had to stop early, but I'll finish now.

It was also before the State of Connecticut and JAX labs investment of $865 million and $1.1 billion, respectively, in new research and clinical facilities with and emphasis on new diagnostics, devices, & treatments for personalized medicine.

I could go on and talk about the Institute for Systems Genomics and the Institute for Creativity, Innovation & Entrepreneurship but you get the idea. Those rankings above are before millions upon millions in new investment and UConn already are comparable to existing AAU members. What do you think will happen to those rankings after this investment in research facilities and top professors has a chance to take hold?

Frank you think you understand us, but I would suggest that you have no idea who we are. We went from being a regional power in basketball to being one of the two best over the last decade and a half. We became the dominant power in woman's basketball. We made the fastest accent to a BCS bowl that I can remember and won our conference twice in our first 10 years. Academically our assent has been meteoric.

When this university and this state sets their minds toward a goal, it happens. It just is that simple and we've seen it time and again. It sure seems like it is happening now regarding the decision to become a top research institution. It's not going to be easy. It will take time, but it certainly happen given the money being invested and the state support that we have.

You have a reoccurring theme that we weight ourselves too heavily. I am sure that you are correct, as I believe that true of pretty much everyone. I would say however that you rate us far, far too lightly. Time will tell who is correct.

CL82. This is great stuff. I'd feel a lot better if I knew this info was being made available to non-boneyarders (kidding but not by much).

 

[buggsy]

No beat writers for UConn, no beat writers for St. John's, no beat writers for Rutgers. A lot of college sports writers who do write a lot on UConn, StJ and Rutgers though. But I don't think you can compare. The NY Post sells to millions who have no interest in college sports. Also, you can't compare the Indianapolis Star to NY. Nor St. Louis. These are tiny cities by comparison.

UConn used to have 15 or more beat writers assigned to it a decade ago before the newspaper business died. They called them the "Horde." There are still several around, I forget how many. Maybe 7?

Dave Caldwell of The New York Times covers Rutgers exclusively for the paper. He covers other sports for the paper, but is assigned the Rutgers beat.

 

[CL82]

CL82. This is great stuff. I'd feel a lot better if I knew this info was being made available to non-boneyarders (kidding but not by much).

Feel free to shop it around. I can source it for you if you need it.