Transfers (merged threads)

[oldude]

I mean, I agree, but I don't think it'd be an easy call for UT either way. I agree that Westbrook faced criticism at TN that was sometimes unwarranted, but when she basically called for Holly's firing, got her wish, and then still transferred anyway, I think she lost some benefit of the doubt in terms of whether UT fans should be expected to look favorably on her, and whether the UT administration should do everything they can to ease her transfer. Think about it: if she seeks the waiver because of a coaching change she sought to help bring about, that would create some pretty bizarre perverse incentives. Get your coach fired so you can leave without having to sit out a year!

In light of this conversation, I wonder whether even this potential wrinkle might give Geno pause if he's seriously considering her, at least unless he can get a verbal assurance from UT that they'll waive her transfer prior to him formally accepting her. Otherwise, the potential drama of an NCAA appeal and back-and-forth with UT just as they're restarting the series after a very fraught prior decade just doesn't seem worth it to me. There are plenty of other good transfer spots for Westbrook, and she may not be worth the baggage for UConn - especially when what they really need is a post, not another guard.

You raise legitimate points. So assuming the transfer happens, it may simply come down to how the coach wants to deal with the situation. Geno did not oppose AEH’s immediate eligibility at MS St because it was time to move on. If there is any WBB program in the country where it’s time to move on it’s at TN. With the resumption of the UConn-TN rivalry, hopefully KJH realizes that it’s time to move on in Knoxville.

 

[Plebe]

The way I read the term "incoming college athletes" makes me think that only applies to freshmen and transfers, not to Westbrook, who would not be an incoming college athlete vis-a-vis Tennessee.

ETA: sure enough, Raoul's blog clarified that this does not apply to returning players.

Yes, this is clearly the "Braxton Beverly rule," designed to avoid a similar debacle:
Don't let NCAA off the hook for clearing Braxton Beverly -- there are others waiting

 

[oldude]

She was the number 2 player in the class who has had 2 years of horrendous coaching. Let's see what Evina can do with good coaching and within a offense system that has actually been updated for this century and not to the last.

I would actually argue that Walker & Westbrook were #1 & #1A in their class, as I believe they both earned one or more NPOY awards. Beyond the terrible coaching, Westbrook was playing out of position in an offense that didn’t fully exploit her skills.

Put Westbrook in Geno’s 5-out, motion offense where everyone is expected to pass, cut and shoot, and give her the opportunity to develop under the best coaching staff in WBB and she will be outstanding.

 

[Jmsdawg]

I don’t believe there’s ever been an instance when a coach was let go that a school did not approve a waiver for immediate eligibility.

Promise Taylor and I understand the transfer from Cal to Louisville will have to sit out but if you think UT will approve a waiver for Westbrook to any school you have more faith in UT than I do.

 

[DaBball]

I would actually argue that Walker & Westbrook were #1 & #1A in their class, as I believe they both earned one or more NPOY awards. Beyond the terrible coaching, Westbrook was playing out of position in an offense that didn’t fully exploit her skills.

Put Westbrook in Geno’s 5-out, motion offense where everyone is expected to pass, cut and shoot, and give her the opportunity to develop under the best coaching staff in WBB and she will be outstanding.

Westbrook's issue, according to UT fans, is she really, really wants to be a PG. She would be so much better off the ball.

 

[lebronfan23]

The NCAA made three (relatively) good decisions on transfers

 

[Jmsdawg]

One additional question. Do we know if MS St actually requested a waiver? Taylor would have been a backup all season behind SEC POY Tiera McCowan. By sitting out a year, Vic potentially gets to have her as his starting center for 3 yrs.

Vic requested the waiver for Promise and AEH at the same time, AEH granted, Promise was not.

 

[Geesworld]

She had alot of dumb turnovers. Some things shouldnt have to be taught. She hurt the team just a much as she helped. Bonehead turnovers were an understatement. Please go back and watch again for yourself.

Watching Tennessee play last season was a bad brand of basketball. Far cry of what Tennessee used to be. I think EW will be a great addition but I think she will need fine tuning. You can definitely see that she developed bad habits. Something I think UCONN culture could fix.

 

[Charliebball]

Somehow the idea of Tennessee granting the waiver knowing they're headed up to Storrs to face the Huskies (and, if they granted it, Westbrook) this fall makes me think they'd more than hesitate to grant it if she were to transfer to UConn. Even close to a decade after Pat retired from the program, IMHO the women's basketball rivalry between UConn and UT is far, far more rivalrous than MSU and Ole Miss.

But who knows. KJH may be inclined to be nicer than Pat ever was! But granting it, having her transfer to UConn, and then having to play her this fall would be more than a little bit of a slap in the face, given how Westbrook's tenure at UT ended and the history between the two programs.

important to remember that other players/recruits will be watching to see what Tennessee does where ever Westbrook goes...............not granting permission to an out of conference team just does not look good

 

[Sifaka]

[...] but when she basically called for Holly's firing [...] .

That is your interpretation of her rather ambiguous words. You appear to assume that AD Fulmer fired Warlick—at least in part—due to the possible opinion of a single player. You may choose to believe this, but that is not grounds for presenting that interpretation as fact.


Westbrook: "...steps need to be taken with our staff..."


source:

 

[CocoHusky]

If TN does in fact retain the right to grant immediate eligibility to Westbrook, there are a couple of other factors. UConn can appeal directly to the NCAA. Considering the extremely difficult environment and criticism that Westbrook faced at TN, there’s a very good chance that the NCAA would grant the waiver.
The other issue is public relations. The hiring of KJH is supposed to signal a new era at TN. To then go after a young player who obviously struggled through a bad situation not of her own making is petty and vindictive.

TN does not have the right to grant or oppose immediate eligibility This language and the practice is outdated. Under the old transfer procedures a school could restrict the schools to which a player can transfer or could grant what was formerly know as an "unconditional release"- meaning the school did not care where the player ended up. That is all gone as of April 2018. A school can no longer restrict where a player ends up.
Immediate eligibility is and has always been a separate matter entirely administered by the NCAA and per the NCAA website sometimes adjudicated by the athletic conferences.
Under the immediate transfer waiver process (both old and new process) the school does get to support or not support the application for immediate eligibility. Support by the old school for immediately is a consideration but not a guarantee of it. More importantly the entire process is confidential-meaning that we will never know if TN supported the application or not. Therefore this is not about public relations because we will never know. Just like we don't know if UCONN supported AEH's application for immediate eligibility at Mississippi State.

 

[oldude]

Westbrook's issue, according to UT fans, is she really, really wants to be a PG. She would be so much better off the ball.

By taking a visit to UConn, Westbrook clearly must know that she won’t be the pg next year and with Paige & Nika coming in the following year, there would certainly be competition for that role.

I would also argue that UConn’s offense is far more of a “positionless” offense then TN. Everyone is expected to handle and pass the ball. Geno will tell you that Lou was his best passer this season. So if Westbrook does end up at UConn, she will have an opportunity to develop her pg skills, whether or not she actually plays pg.

 

[Charliebball]

I mean, I agree, but I don't think it'd be an easy call for UT either way. I agree that Westbrook faced criticism at TN that was sometimes unwarranted, but when she basically called for Holly's firing, got her wish, and then still transferred anyway, I think she lost some benefit of the doubt in terms of whether UT fans should be expected to look favorably on her, and whether the UT administration should do everything they can to ease her transfer. Think about it: if she seeks the waiver because of a coaching change she sought to help bring about, that would create some pretty bizarre perverse incentives. Get your coach fired so you can leave without having to sit out a year!

In light of this conversation, I wonder whether even this potential wrinkle might give Geno pause if he's seriously considering her, at least unless he can get a verbal assurance from UT that they'll waive her transfer prior to him formally accepting her. Otherwise, the potential drama of an NCAA appeal and back-and-forth with UT just as they're restarting the series after a very fraught prior decade just doesn't seem worth it to me. There are plenty of other good transfer spots for Westbrook, and she may not be worth the baggage for UConn - especially when what they really need is a post, not another guard.

I think the majority of Tennessee fans believe Westbrook did the team a favor....................the sense I get based on their forum is that perhaps 80% of the fans wanted Holly out and it was Westbrook who had the nerve to say what so many were thinking and helped to bring about positive change..................the 20% of Holly loyalists were vocal enough to make EW's continued stay uncomfortable so why not move on for a fresh start...............whether that fresh start will be in Storrs CT is another story.

 

[victor64]

Let's assume that Evina didn't travel all the way to UCONN just to roller skate with Megan and her teammates. Let's also assume, prior to the visit that Geno did his homework (no inside info but this is as safe a bet as there is).

Given that, the following conclusions can be jumped too.

1. Geno is fairly certain that she will be granted a waiver. Evina's value is not as great if they have to wait a season like they did with Azura.

2. Geno has thoroughly investigated what issues (real or imagined) exist with Evina's mother.

3. Evina understands that she won't play point at UCONN.

4. Pursing Evina doesn't impact the recruitment of Anna Mazurat.

5. Determining whether Evina blends with her potential teammates is being established this weekend.

6. Just because she is visiting does not mean a commitment is forthcoming. I am sure the Oregon schools will get an extensive look.

 

[Geesworld]

The NCAA made three (relatively) good decisions on transfers

For immediate play
#3 option (WALK ON) Looks like the best option.
#2 option Is it just freshman or all incoming players? If it's all players, then transferring just got a lot more simple.

 

[CocoHusky]

Let's pump the brakes a little. Let's go with what we know. Evina is visiting UCONN-That's it!
We don't know where else she will visit.
We don't know if Geno, the staff, the team will accept her.
We don't know what position she will play if she is accepted.
We don't even know if her mother is visiting with her.

 

[CocoHusky]

Let's assume that Evina didn't travel all the way to UCONN just to roller skate with Megan and her teammates. Let's also assume, prior to the visit that Geno did his homework (no inside info but this is as safe a bet as there is).

Given that, the following conclusions can be jumped too.

1. Geno is fairly certain that she will be granted a waiver. Evina's value is not as great if they have to wait a season like they did with Azura.

2. Geno has thoroughly investigated what issues (real or imagined) exist with Evina's mother.

3. Evina understands that she won't play point at UCONN.

4. Pursing Evina doesn't impact the recruitment of Anna Mazurat.

5. Determining whether Evina blends with her potential teammates is being established this weekend.

6. Just because she is visiting does not mean a commitment is forthcoming. I am sure the Oregon schools will get an extensive look.

 

[Dillon77]

For immediate play
#3 option (WALK ON) Looks like the best option.
#2 option Is it just freshman or all incoming players? If it's all players, then transferring just got a lot more simple.

I read that as just freshmen. As in, your parents just dropped you off for summer semester and your coach suddenly is canned (for whatever reason) and he/she is the reason you came. You can transfer to another school without having to sit out a year.

 

[Dillon77]

Let's pump the brakes a little. Let's go with what we know. Evina is visiting UCONN-That's it!
We don't know where else she will visit.
We don't know if Geno, the staff, the team will accept her.
We don't know what position she will play if she is accepted.
We don't even know if her mother is visiting with her.

Good idea...it's raining in the northeast. Don't want to slide off the road by going too fast...
(Sorry, hearing too many homilies this week...)

 

[Geesworld]

I read that as just freshmen. As in, your parents just dropped you off for summer semester and your coach suddenly is canned (for whatever reason) and he/she is the reason you came. You can transfer to another school without having to sit out a year.

That is how I'm reading it, too.

 

[CocoHusky]

I read that as just freshmen. As in, your parents just dropped you off for summer semester and your coach suddenly is canned (for whatever reason) and he/she is the reason you came. You can transfer to another school without having to sit out a year.

That is how I'm reading it, too.

I'm reading (maybe hoping) it's a little different. That provision, freshmen to transfer and be immediately eligible, was already in place by the school simply releasing the Freshmen from the signed NLI. Kate Cain was released by Delaware and immediately eligible at Nebraska. A second consideration is that why should that privilege (benefit?) only apply to freshmen when ALL the players on the roster also made an agreement to play for that same coach?
One other thing that's key with this change ( at least the way In intrepreting it) is the NCAA is also saying don't even bother us with a waiver application for this: If you coach leaves "peace out"!

 

[Hayven]

Crystal seems to be back in Tennessee for Easter weekend, so she’s not with the team during Westbrook’s “visit” with Megan. If Westbrook didn’t have to sit the year for the transfer rule, Crystal would have to be on campus with the rest of the team to see if Westbrook is a good fit.

 

[CocoHusky]

Crystal seems to be back in Tennessee for Easter weekend, so she’s not with the team during Westbrook’s “visit” with Megan. If Westbrook didn’t have to sit the year for the transfer rule, Crystal would have to be on campus with the rest of the team to see if Westbrook is a good fit.

Y?

 

[Hayven]

Y?

Why would she go home if a highly-sought transfer was on campus for the weekend?

 

[hoopsdiva]

Why would she go home if a highly-sought transfer was on campus for the weekend?

Cuz it's Easter?