Transfer thread

[JonathanXIV]

I would think there would be quite a few. Though Stewart didn't start all games and she transformed herself in the Tourney she averaged 13.4 and 6.4 her frosh year. Though she was close and she was a beast during the tourney. And in 17-18 Stewie averaged 7.8. But roundoff to 8. But here are others:

The year prior, Faris was their PF. She didn't average this. If KML was the pf then she didn't average 8 rebounds.
Swin Cash in 99-00 averaged 9.9 and 5.3
Barb Turner in 02-03 and 03-04 did average close either.

In 17-18 whoever you define as the PF Gabby or Collier they didn't average 15-8 though Collier was above 15 in scoring but 7.4 in rebounding.

In 18-19 Meg Walker was the PF I suppose and she didn't average 15 or 8. If you want to say Katie Lou was the pf she didn't average 8 rebounds. She was 6.3

And in only 1 year did Maya average above 8.5 rebounds. One year it was 7.6 though she also played sf that year. But she did average over 8 two others.

Morgan Tuck never averaged above 6 rebounds a game. And Morgan Tuck never averaged 15 ppf. Though 1 year it was 14.4

In other words, almost all out championship teams didn’t have a power forward average 15/8.

 

[JordyG]

Destiny Slocum has transferred to Arkansas View attachment 53289

Little "never gonna be happy anywhere" has found her last bus stop.

 

[CocoHusky]

Respectfully, I think there is more than one formula to make the Final Four. To argue that the only way for us to reach the Final Four is to have Edwards start and average 15 points and 8.5 rebounds a game is a bit reductionist. Not every UConn Final Four team had a power forward averaging 15/8.

With equal respect, those numbers were not selected randomly. While there are many ways to get to a final 4 I'm not sure why anyone would want to stray away from the UCONN way. The UCONN way is AA caliber play at the PF position and averages as indicated in the table below. Azura's numbers are included because sometimes that productivity does not have to come from a starter. I stand by my prior statements. For UCONN to return to the FF next season the starting PF must average 15 PPG and 8.5 rebounds per game. That is an awful lot to ask of a freshman which is where Lucy Cochrane comes back into the conversation.

 

[bballnut90]

Little "never gonna be happy anywhere" has found her last bus stop.

Would you say the same about Natalie Butler who did the exact same thing? No need to be condescending toward her for zero reason.

 

[Charliebball]

With equal respect, those numbers were not selected randomly. While there are many ways to get to a final 4 I'm not sure why anyone would want to stray away from the UCONN way. The UCONN way is AA caliber play at the PF position and averages as indicated in the table below. Azura's numbers are included because sometimes that productivity does not have to come from a starter. I stand by my prior statements. For UCONN to return to the FF next season the starting PF must average 15 PPG and 8.5 rebounds per game. That is an awful lot to ask of a freshman which is where Lucy Cochrane comes back into the conversation.
View attachment 53290

Coco are you saying that Lucy Cochrane is capable of getting 15/8 for UConn?...............respectfully I just don't see that from her videos........

 

[JonathanXIV]

With equal respect, those numbers were not selected randomly. While there are many ways to get to a final 4 I'm not sure why anyone would want to stray away from the UCONN way. The UCONN way is AA caliber play at the PF position and averages as indicated in the table below. Azura's numbers are included because sometimes that productivity does not have to come from a starter. I stand by my prior statements. For UCONN to return to the FF next season the starting PF must average 15 PPG and 8.5 rebounds per game. That is an awful lot to ask of a freshman which is where Lucy Cochrane comes back into the conversation.
View attachment 53290

While I respect your posts, I think that there are a couple of issues with your numbers. First, you state that we need a AA at power forward, but you include both Stewie and Tuck's numbers. They can't both play power forward while both are on the court. Fact is, Stewie was often not playing power forward. Similarly, your numbers are juiced a bit by including Maya's numbers. Again, she was not exclusively a power forward. In fact, most would consider her a shooting forward.

Secondly, there are a number of other years where our power forward feel short of your 15/8 standard while we still made the Final Four. Below are some examples.

94-95 Elliot 10.9 8.1
95-96 Elliot 8.5 7.9
99-00 Cash 9.9 5.3
00-01 Cash 12.2 7.5
01-02 Cash 14.9 8.6
01-02 Jones 14.0 6.0
02-03 Turner 10.0 5.8
03-04 Turner 13.7 4.8

A few observations. While you focused on a single player, Edwards, there have been years when UConn has gotten its production from the power forward position from multiple players. The Cash-Jones-Williams years is an example of that. And if your point is that we need a good player at power forward, I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But that's like saying UConn only gets to the Final Four when it has an AA in the starting lineup.

Having said all of that, if we do have a season next year, I think Edwards will play well. Griffin as well. And given the surplus of talent at the guard/wing position, I think you will see a lot of players in the 4 spot, including Edwards, Griffin, and Anna. But one player as power forward averaging 15/8.5. Probably not. And I'm okay with that.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

I know Cochrane talked to S.C. the first time around a bit, but I'd guess she's gonna transfer down a bit. Else why not stay where she was?

 

[CocoHusky]

Coco are you saying that Lucy Cochrane is capable of getting 15/8 for UConn?...............respectfully I just don't see that from her videos........

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying UCONN needs to get that level of productivity out of the PF position to have a FF caliber team. I don't think one player (Freshman Edwards) by herself can get you that. But a combination of Edwards and Cochrane both playing the PF position could get UCONN 15/8.5. BTW the 8.5 is far more significant than the 15.

 

[JonathanXIV]

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying UCONN needs to get that level of productivity out of the PF position to have a FF caliber team. I don't think one player (Freshman Edwards) by herself can get you that. But a combination of Edwards and Cochrane both playing the PF position could get UCONN 15/8.5. BTW the 8.5 is far more significant than the 15.

Thanks for the clarification, as you write in your original post that Edwards needs to play at an AA level.

 

[JordyG]

Would you say the same about Natalie Butler who did the exact same thing? No need to be condescending toward her for zero reason.

Natalie Butler saw a chance to go from a barely D1 program to the best program in the country. Then when it was obvious she wasn't going to play much for UConn she went to a program where she could at least play a bit for her final year. Slocum keeps going from top program to top program in an effort to find one that will cater to her. Far, far different stories.

 

[bballnut90]

Natalie Butler saw a chance to go from a barely D1 program to the best program in the country. Then when it was obvious she wasn't going to play much for UConn she went to a program where she could at least play a bit for her final year. Slocum keeps going from top program to top program in an effort to find one that will cater to her. Far, far different stories.

Calling her, 'Little "never gonna be happy anywhere"' is super patronizing for no reason when you likely dont know her story or situation at all.

 

[hoophuskee]

In other words, almost all out championship teams didn’t have a power forward average 15/8.

I'm with you. IMO Coco is making this stuff up as he or she is going along. I'm usually in a agreement with a lot of what coco says.

But listing Collier twice? And then Collier was the center last year so the pf was not 15-8. Adding Stewart to Tuck to make teh point of "PF?"????????????? . Adding then adding Stevens another time???????????????

The whole 2018-2019 season contradicts the pf comments Coco is making anyways. They got there without a 15-8.



I will add this: IMO there is and always has been an exaggerated fear of size. And it's odd- UCONN has beaten it so much and as fans we know it and we saw a few years ago South Carolina had to play small to win it all and did it-- and yet the fear of size always comes back again sooner or later. Sure - some years you are too small.

Anyhow ----
I'll refrain from this discussion for a while.
The UCONN "WAY" is not the numbers coco is using. The UCONN WAY is that UCONN wins in many ways. What did we hear way back from Pat Summit? "Rebounding wins championships." In 2002-2003 UCONN got wiped out vs Tennessee in the finals on the glass and UCONN still won. The beauty of basketball is that there isn't a numbers ppg formula from a certain position on the floor. You can win in many ways and last year proved that yet again.

 

[PAC-12HoopFan]

Little "never gonna be happy anywhere" has found her last bus stop.

I think that Slocum will find some happiness in Arkansas. Neighbors won't be sitting her during crunch time to teach her to be compliant like Rueck often did. I think that she will be unleashed in that offensive system.

 

[jonson]

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying UCONN needs to get that level of productivity out of the PF position to have a FF caliber team. I don't think one player (Freshman Edwards) by herself can get you that. But a combination of Edwards and Cochrane both playing the PF position could get UCONN 15/8.5. BTW the 8.5 is far more significant than the 15.

Lucy Cochrane is a project, who, with time, could become a solid backup in the post. This year, she showed that she can block shots, and she has a nice mid-range jumper. But she needs to get much stronger, and, as far as I could tell, does not really have a back to the basket game. She was the last person off the bench this past year and would be playing behind Sedona Prince, Nyara Sabally, Lydia Giomi, and--likely--at least one of the incoming freshmen (Kylie Watson) in 2020-21. So leaving was, for her, the right decision imo. As would be moving down a bit.

 

[CocoHusky]

Anyhow ----
I'll refrain from this discussion for a while.
The UCONN "WAY" is not the numbers coco is using. The UCONN WAY is that UCONN wins in many ways. What did we hear way back from Pat Summit? "Rebounding wins championships." In 2002-2003 UCONN got wiped out vs Tennessee in the finals on the glass and UCONN still won. The beauty of basketball is that there isn't a numbers ppg formula from a certain position on the floor. You can win in many ways and last year proved that yet again.

Everything stat I have presented is verifiable.
LOL! That 2002-2003 team had a pair of freshman at the PF spot Willnett Crockett & Barbara Turner.
If the 2020-21 UCONN team can get that same level of productivity out of the PF position then all UCONN would need is another DT. The center in 02-03 was Jessica Moore, no worries there though Liv is being about as productive as Jessica-maybe a tad more.

 

[CocoHusky]

Having said all of that, if we do have a season next year, I think Edwards will play well. Griffin as well. And given the surplus of talent at the guard/wing position, I think you will see a lot of players in the 4 spot, including Edwards, Griffin, and Anna. .

I have seen those movies before where UCONN takes a wing sized player and masquerades then as a post. Saw it with Gabby, Napheesa, Megan, Kyla, & Aubrey. The ending of those movies sucked. There is a common theme in all the UCONN loses since 2015. UCONN starting front line has been outsized at the 4/5: Mississippi State, Notre Dame (2X), Louisville, Baylor (2X), Oregon, & South Carolina. For the sequel to the movie I'm looking to start with equal size and comparable skill in the post. It pains me to remember and write that ND brought Kristina Nelson off the bench in a FF game and UCONN had nobody to match up with her. I'm pretty sure the director of these movies did not intend them to be horror films.

 

[victor64]

I think what Geno wants to do but is reluctant, especially against quality competition, is change the style of play to a full-court pressure, position-less lineup that relies on steals and transition to counteract the lack of inside and rebounding presence. Zone is more than a periodic different look

Last season, as in the past few years, against teams like Baylor, he stays with half court man with no press. Good teams effectively slow down UConn in transition.

Against AAC teams, he would experiment and try things like half-court traps, different zones, various types of presses. All with success but not enough, in his mind, to try the strategy in big games.

The hint of potential change is the recent recruit types. McLean, Poffenbarger, Edwards, Bueckers etc. above all else, impress with their athleticism.

The caveat, of course, one requirement of a more full-court style of play is to be willing to use more of the bench.

As has been discussed on the board for years, Geno only wants to play seven, at most, in big games.

 

[oldude]

I have seen those movies before where UCONN takes a wing sized player and masquerades then as a post. Saw it with Gabby, Napheesa, Megan, Kyla, & Aubrey. The ending of those movies sucked. There is a common theme in all the UCONN loses since 2015. UCONN starting front line has been outsized at the 4/5: Mississippi State, Notre Dame (2X), Louisville, Baylor (2X), Oregon, & South Carolina. For the sequel to the movie I'm looking to start with equal size and comparable skill in the post. It pains me to remember and write that ND brought Kristina Nelson off the bench in a FF game and UCONN had nobody to match up with her. I'm pretty sure the director of these movies did not intend them to be horror films.

You could make the case that all UConn’s losses since the graduation of the Big 3 have come at the hands of top 10 teams with dominant front court size. But that obscures the fact that since the graduation of the Big 3, UConn has beaten all of those teams frequently, with the exception of MS St as follows: SC (5x), ND (3x not even counting this past season), Louisville (3x), Baylor (1x), OR (1x). Throw in some nice wins vs MD (2x), UCLA (2x) & TX (2x) and the Huskies have more than held their own against top teams with frontcourt size.

We are also looking at this issue solely from the standpoint of UConn, and what they don’t have. If we expand our view, all of the usual suspects, with the possible exception of Stanford and SC have significant rebuilding challenges in their own right. OR, Baylor, Louisville & MD all lost a ton of talent. Even, SC lost 2 of their very best players to the W.

UConn may not be the best team in the country next season, but I have a hard time finding 4 teams that I would rank ahead of them for spots in the FF.

 

[Tonyc]

I would think that if a kid like Lucy is transferring she is gonna wanna play. At 6'6 she will play somewhere. If she came to UConn would she be happy sharing time with Liv and later with Piath and DeBerry. Would they be happy sharing time with her. How long will it take for all of them to develop and who would want to sit? We have seen it takes time for bigs to develop and she needs time to develop just like every body else coming in. Oregon as I mentioned in a post last year has alot of bigs and you can only play one or two at a time so it was like throw them up against the wall and see what sticks. Well now we know why she is leaving as someone mentioned in a post that she was last off the bench and with the new kids coming in at Oregon she doesnt have much else to do but transfer if she wants to play. Why would UConn with the classes they have coming in and knowing Lucy wants to play take a chance on her and a chance on loosing what they have coming in? If shes not gonna play for Oregon after one season then Oregon must have talked to her about playtime and with who's coming in at Oregon well I think she knows what she has to do to play.

In the long term I would think that kids will look twice at Oregon. Oregon has Prince 6'7 ready this season. She was at Texas and had some schools she was considering. Now Lucy leaves as does some others and with graduation and kids leaving early to turn pro you would think Lucy at 6'6 would see some playtime. Maybe she wouldve maybe not. My guess is maybe not and thats why shes leaving. Just my thoughts.

Geno knows what he's doing. He needs a backup for Liv and he needs to develop Piath and be ready for Deberry. So I would look for UConn to try to get someone who is willing to share time with Liv or be a backup for Liv. Hey weve got alot of talent coming in and we dont want to mess that up.

 

[CocoHusky]

I would think that if a kid like Lucy is transferring she is gonna wanna play. At 6'6 she will play somewhere. If she came to UConn would she be happy sharing time with Liv and later with Piath and DeBerry. Would they be happy sharing time with her. How long will it take for all of them to develop and who would want to sit? We have seen it takes time for bigs to develop and she needs time to develop just like every body else coming in. Oregon as I mentioned in a post last year has alot of bigs and you can only play one or two at a time so it was like throw them up against the wall and see what sticks. Well now we know why she is leaving as someone mentioned in a post that she was last off the bench and with the new kids coming in at Oregon she doesnt have much else to do but transfer if she wants to play. Why would UConn with the classes they have coming in and knowing Lucy wants to play take a chance on her and a chance on loosing what they have coming in? If shes not gonna play for Oregon after one season then Oregon must have talked to her about playtime and with who's coming in at Oregon well I think she knows what she has to do to play.

In the long term I would think that kids will look twice at Oregon. Oregon has Prince 6'7 ready this season. She was at Texas and had some schools she was considering. Now Lucy leaves as does some others and with graduation and kids leaving early to turn pro you would think Lucy at 6'6 would see some playtime. Maybe she wouldve maybe not. My guess is maybe not and thats why shes leaving. Just my thoughts.

Geno knows what he's doing. He needs a backup for Liv and he needs to develop Piath and be ready for Deberry. So I would look for UConn to try to get someone who is willing to share time with Liv or be a backup for Liv. Hey weve got alot of talent coming in and we dont want to mess that up.

Lucy will be no different than any other recruit-of course she is going to have to want to come to UCONN. Should she decide to come to UCONN, the minutes she gets will be those that she earns-just like every other UCONN player in history. The roster is at 10 players right now and I don't understand this line of thinking that says don't recruit more post players because DeBerry, Piath are coming. Do we think Edwards is guaranteed to be the starting PF this year or do we think she'll have to earn it-just like every other UCONN player in history? Paige? DeBerry will have to earn her minutes when she gets to UCONN. If Lucy and Paith are the ones standing in Amari's way then Amari shouldn't be that worried.
UCONN had a pair of forwards on the roster last year that averaged 16.7 MPG last year. One of those forwards started in 18 of 28 games averaged 3.1 PPG and 2.6 RPG. My guess is that Lucy would do a little better than that if she earned 17 MPG. Is Lucy willing to only play 17 MPG for UCONN- IDK! Let's find out.

 

[donalddoowop]

I think what Geno wants to do but is reluctant, especially against quality competition, is change the style of play to a full-court pressure, position-less lineup that relies on steals and transition to counteract the lack of inside and rebounding presence. Zone is more than a periodic different look

Last season, as in the past few years, against teams like Baylor, he stays with half court man with no press. Good teams effectively slow down UConn in transition.

Against AAC teams, he would experiment and try things like half-court traps, different zones, various types of presses. All with success but not enough, in his mind, to try the strategy in big games.

The hint of potential change is the recent recruit types. McLean, Poffenbarger, Edwards, Bueckers etc. above all else, impress with their athleticism.

The caveat, of course, one requirement of a more full-court style of play is to be willing to use more of the bench.

As has been discussed on the board for years, Geno only wants to play seven, at most, in big games.

If you go back and watch some of UConn's games when they had ten good players in the early part of the 2000's, you will see Geno substituted freely and played more than just seven players.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Respectfully, I think there is more than one formula to make the Final Four. To argue that the only way for us to reach the Final Four is to have Edwards start and average 15 points and 8.5 rebounds a game is a bit reductionist. Not every UConn Final Four team had a power forward averaging 15/8.

Edwards at forward is a must for a national championship in the 2020-21 season. She will rebound and defend beyond her freshman status. She will not average 15 points per game. However, Edwards will be enough of a scoring threat to free Olivia from double teams. Thus allowing Olivia to average 17-19 points per game. With the passing abilities of the guards and Olivia I see Edwards after January 15 averaging 7 to 10 points per game.

 

[donalddoowop]

I believe next season will see the unveiling of Griffin's outside shot. Her mid range and three point shot.

 

[Jim R]

You could make the case that all UConn’s losses since the graduation of the Big 3 have come at the hands of top 10 teams with dominant front court size. But that obscures the fact that since the graduation of the Big 3, UConn has beaten all of those teams frequently, with the exception of MS St as follows: SC (5x), ND (3x not even counting this past season), Louisville (3x), Baylor (1x), OR (1x). Throw in some nice wins vs MD (2x), UCLA (2x) & TX (2x) and the Huskies have more than held their own against top teams with frontcourt size.

We are also looking at this issue solely from the standpoint of UConn, and what they don’t have. If we expand our view, all of the usual suspects, with the possible exception of Stanford and SC have significant rebuilding challenges in their own right. OR, Baylor, Louisville & MD all lost a ton of talent. Even, SC lost 2 of their very best players to the W.

UConn may not be the best team in the country next season, but I have a hard time finding 4 teams that I would rank ahead of them for spots in the FF. (Agreed)

You could make the case that all UConn’s losses since the graduation of the Big 3 have come at the hands of top 10 teams with dominant front court size.
That case has already been made in our losses. I think the question is, Why are we making it hard on our ourselves? Can we win with less height? Yes - Geno & staff have done a good job of capitalizing on our strengths (quickness, offensive movement & passing, trapping defenses, etc), and masking our weaknesses many years, to win. But, more frontline height would sure make it easier. Do you think it was simply coincidence that Baylor's, Oregon's, Miss State, USC's ascension came with height included. In WCBB, trying to rebound or shoot over a 6'4" or taller (not to mention Griner or McCowan) center, is no easy feat. And, when there are a pair of those (6'3" or taller), on a front line, it's even tougher. And, if they happen to be fairly mobile, and can pass, watch out.
But that obscures the fact that since the graduation of the Big 3, UConn has beaten all of those teams frequently, with the exception of MS St. As teams have become more competitive, due to improved coaching, and top prospects choosing a greater variety of schools to attend, how many of the FF schools won without front court height, especially against Top 10 teams outside their conference? (I tend to weigh victories outside of conference play, especially away games, as a better indicator of a team's strength).
At the end of the day, while UCONN has done it time and again, why would any Basketball team (the object is to put the ball in a 10 Foot high basket) want to compete against a taller team.....when you don't have to?

 

[HopJim]

This thread is getting a bit old. Do you need an AA power forward to win NCAA's? No, but it makes it easier. Do you need an AA center, AA point guard, AA shooting guard? Let's not kid ourselves - no team is perfect but UConn has shown a blueprint for how to win and how to win multiple years.