Transfer portal part 2

[TC22]

Come to Ole Miss! We will recruit over you in the transfer portal every year!

If coaches don't win they lose their job. You really can't blame them. It is kind of crazy though - IDK what the answer is. Every player can't have a starting position.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

You can add Louisville to that list as well. I mean if it works go for it!

This is what AAU coaches are talking about currently. The Portal is making life hard on high school kids.

Perhaps it will cause a further expansion of the talent to some of the schools on the cusp of taking a step towards national consistency. Some of these "mid-majors" looked very competitive. I would say that the BE is the conference benefiting the most from the portal talent push. They made noise in the tournament and this was after some of their teams barely made the cut. It's also a better environment if you're rebuilding from scratch like Syracuse or Minnesota. Not sure why AAU coaches in particular would have a dog in this fight.

 

[HuskyFan1125]

Perhaps it will cause a further expansion of the talent to some of the schools on the cusp of taking a step towards national consistency. Some of these "mid-majors" looked very competitive. I would say that the BE is the conference benefiting the most from the portal talent push. They made noise in the tournament and this was after some of their teams barely made the cut. It's also a better environment if you're rebuilding from scratch like Syracuse or Minnesota. Not sure why AAU coaches in particular would have a dog in this fight.

I can answer that actually. Kids are being recruited over by the transfer portal. Keep in mind we are not necessarily talking about top shelf talent, but they are by no means immune. AAU coaches work with these kids and help them get exposure. They get scholarship offers and in the women's game they seem to take the highest offer not always the best fit (which we have heard lately). Then as incoming freshman they are battling upper classmen and learning the ropes and finding their way. Then in comes a transfer that leaps frogs them and they are relegated to another year on the pine. It's an added pressure. To circle back around to the AAU aspect these coaches have tight relationships with the kids being recruited and look out for them much like a parent. If an AAU coach loses respect for a college coach due to being recruited over its naive to think they are not in their players ear.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

I can answer that actually. Kids are being recruited over by the transfer portal. Keep in mind we are not necessarily talking about top shelf talent, but they are by no means immune. AAU coaches work with these kids and help them get exposure. They get scholarship offers and in the women's game they seem to take the highest offer not always the best fit (which we have heard lately). Then as incoming freshman they are battling upper classmen and learning the ropes and finding their way. Then in comes a transfer that leaps frogs them and they are relegated to another year on the pine. It's an added pressure. To circle back around to the AAU aspect these coaches have tight relationships with the kids being recruited and look out for them much like a parent. If an AAU coach loses respect for a college coach due to being recruited over its naive to think they are not in their players ear.

They should be in their player's ears about....other possibilities and about the realities they may face as freshmen...even if they don't get recruited over. Any kid that's really good...doesn't need an AAU coach to get exposed. Who doesn't have a highlight tape, facebook or tiktok? In my opinion, AAU just added some unnecessary steps to college recruitment. A'Ja Wilson didn't need them. Don't get me wrong...it's convenient, but there are just as many, if not more benefits for these coaches...than the players. There's a ton of money floating around these teams that wasn't there before and most of these AAU coaches were at best known regionally if that. Many were never even HS coaches. And they too...recruit over players on their teams for the next best player they can snatch up. These kids play too many games now. It's one reason why there are so many injuries. If I'm recruiting a player, I'll talk to the parent and if necessary...involve an AAU coach. In fact, I would rather speak with the HS coach before an AAU coach.

 

[baggerbob]

I can answer that actually. Kids are being recruited over by the transfer portal. Keep in mind we are not necessarily talking about top shelf talent, but they are by no means immune. AAU coaches work with these kids and help them get exposure. They get scholarship offers and in the women's game they seem to take the highest offer not always the best fit (which we have heard lately). Then as incoming freshman they are battling upper classmen and learning the ropes and finding their way. Then in comes a transfer that leaps frogs them and they are relegated to another year on the pine. It's an added pressure. To circle back around to the AAU aspect these coaches have tight relationships with the kids being recruited and look out for them much like a parent. If an AAU coach loses respect for a college coach due to being recruited over its naive to think they are not in their players ear.

Actually the portal will eventually be a good thing. These AAU coaches are going have to be smarter about where they send kids. With coaches being able to replace misfits with better players, will cut down on these AAU coaches influence.

 

[WestsideWaltz]

Jordyn Jenkins to USTA proving that Karen Aston can still recruit. Jenkins was arguably a top 10 transfer prospect so this is very surprising.

 

[Basket]

You can add Louisville to that list as well. I mean if it works go for it!

This is what AAU coaches are talking about currently. The Portal is making life hard on high school kids.

L’ville has had very few transfers the last few years with a large roster

 

[MSSportsGuy]

As I've reflected on things the last few days I can't help but think about "the grass is always greener" syndrome. Lots of players get homesick, disappointed about playing time, or tired of a routine and think a new start would be better. Many are correct. Likewise coaches see a player in the portal who they like on paper or maybe competed against and think "I should grab him or her to help me out with (fill in the blank)".

In reality both scenarios have the potential to work out but they are also short sighted. I fully agree some players need a fresh start and if there has been a coaching change, it is totally understandable why a player would want to move on. I am unconvinced that 1100 (and counting) players made initial mistakes, are homesick, or faced a coaching change. Most just want to play more and think they won't under their present circumstances. What makes that worse is the idea that coaches are always looking in the portal for the "next best thing" that also isn't the best thing. It's easy to think a plug and play, experienced player would solve most ills but coaches cannot say that players won't commit to getting better when it appears they aren't interested in player development and rather more in a quick fix.

No coach should be able to block a player transferring and there are definitely times a clean slate is better for everyone. I just think now the cycle is beyond broken and it will take something major to reign in back in. What was likely a well intended idea by the NCAA has seemingly created a new set of challenges.

 

[Centerstream]

As I've reflected on things the last few days I can't help but think about "the grass is always greener" syndrome. Lots of players get homesick, disappointed about playing time, or tired of a routine and think a new start would be better. Many are correct. Likewise coaches see a player in the portal who they like on paper or maybe competed against and think "I should grab him or her to help me out with (fill in the blank)".

In reality both scenarios have the potential to work out but they are also short sighted. I fully agree some players need a fresh start and if there has been a coaching change, it is totally understandable why a player would want to move on. I am unconvinced that 1100 (and counting) players made initial mistakes, are homesick, or faced a coaching change. Most just want to play more and think they won't under their present circumstances. What makes that worse is the idea that coaches are always looking in the portal for the "next best thing" that also isn't the best thing. It's easy to think a plug and play, experienced player would solve most ills but coaches cannot say that players won't commit to getting better when it appears they aren't interested in player development and rather more in a quick fix.

No coach should be able to block a player transferring and there are definitely times a clean slate is better for everyone. I just think now the cycle is beyond broken and it will take something major to reign in back in. What was likely a well intended idea by the NCAA has seemingly created a new set of challenges.

The NCAA could easily fix this but there are pros and cons for the fix. The reason why the immediate eligibility came into the discussion was because, previously, a player that transferred had to sit out a year unless they were granted a waiver by the NCAA. Waivers weren't the norm but for some schools it appeared the opposite was true.
So the easy fix is to reinstate the one year sit out with only one exception, graduates with eligibility remaining.

 

[baggerbob]

The NCAA could easily fix this but there are pros and cons for the fix. The reason why the immediate eligibility came into the discussion was because, previously, a player that transferred had to sit out a year unless they were granted a waiver by the NCAA. Waivers weren't the norm but for some schools it appeared the opposite was true.
So the easy fix is to reinstate the one year sit out with only one exception, graduates with eligibility remaining.

Once you have put in the transfer rule you can't go back. The NCAA doesn't want more lawsuits, and that would happen immediately if they tryed to go back to sitting out.

 

[Centerstream]

Once you have put in the transfer rule you can't go back. The NCAA doesn't want more lawsuits, and that would happen immediately if they tryed to go back to sitting out.

The NCAA has changed rules in the past, the "no dunking allowed" rule was reversed because it was the right thing to do for one.
What do you mean by "doesn't want more lawsuits"? Were lawsuits filed against the NCAA for the previous transfer rules?

And this discussion need not go any further because even though I offered an opinion on how to fix the issue, I believe that the NCAA is going to stick with what they got.

 

[IceColdCard]

You can add Louisville to that list as well. I mean if it works go for it!

This is what AAU coaches are talking about currently. The Portal is making life hard on high school kids.

I get it, Louisville had a rep for transfers at one point. That is an outdated narrative. If the players were that worried about being recruited over, why did three players choose to come BACK for their COVID year? One of those players gave up minutes for Engstler last year and still came back.

Remember the list that was floating around of McDonald All Americans from a couple of years ago that all transferred? Guess who didn't, Cochran and Van Lith from Louisville. Time to update the poster child for Transfer U. They are no different than any other school operating in this new reality.

 

[sweetspot]

Well, you need more than a couple years to change a narrative. NC State won the ACC in consecutive years but no one's anointing them as a blue blood.

 

[triaddukefan]

Well, you need more than a couple years to change a narrative. NC State won the ACC in consecutive years but no one's anointing them as a blue blood.

State is definitely a red blood though.

 

[maccca3232]

I am unconvinced that 1100 (and counting) players made initial mistakes, are homesick, or faced a coaching change. Most just want to play more and think they won't under their present circumstances.

Of the 1108 I have in the my spreadsheet. Once 1 May deadline passes I will make publicly available in google sheet.

• 311 (28%) are grads
• 178 (16%) didn't log a minute last year, so just looking to play.

There could be some overlap but that accounts for almost half.

From table below the trend is the better the production the less likely to hit transfer portal.

Purple = Efficiency
Green = Minutes per Game
Orange = Win Shares (per Her Hoops Stats subscription website)

 

[ThatCG1801]

Blackwell recently started following multiple Ole Miss players on Instagram. I even noticed she was following the official Ole Miss WBB Instagram account over the weekend, but seemingly unfollowed it today. Maybe she unfollowed because too many people were catching on before it was announced. On Twitter, Coach Yo indicated she landed a big time transfer as well.

This got me curious so I looked. She is following Coach Yo. She is not following Dawn. I didn't notice her following Baylor's HC, either, but I could've missed it. Your eyes start to cross scrolling thru the list after a minute.

I was kind of surprised to hear she was ever interested in South Carolina coming from Mizzou. I would hope individual players can see past ugliness between two teams but I'm sure what she heard about us long before she ever even had a thought of the portal wasn't complimentary. That tension between the two programs goes back to the days of Sophie Cunningham and there is absolutely no love lost between us and them.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

The NCAA could easily fix this but there are pros and cons for the fix. The reason why the immediate eligibility came into the discussion was because, previously, a player that transferred had to sit out a year unless they were granted a waiver by the NCAA. Waivers weren't the norm but for some schools it appeared the opposite was true.
So the easy fix is to reinstate the one year sit out with only one exception, graduates with eligibility remaining.

I agree, I never understood why any waiver was approved unless it was extreme circumstances and I mean extreme. Players who sat out were allowed to receive a scholarship, practice, take part in many team activities, and also likely receive the benefits of being on the team within the campus environment. They were not allowed to play in games and that's about it.

I'm also a little aggravated at the coaches who are seeking to grab players in the portal over working with an existing roster or incoming recruits to make them better. A coach can't or shouldn't ignore a perfectly good player in the portal but not at the expense of a player who may just need some additional coaching or development.

Many people are enjoying this year to see who leaves and who goes where. I am not, mainly because it shows how deeply flawed the system really is.

 

[oldude]

I agree, I never understood why any waiver was approved unless it was extreme circumstances and I mean extreme. Players who sat out were allowed to receive a scholarship, practice, take part in many team activities, and also likely receive the benefits of being on the team within the campus environment. They were not allowed to play in games and that's about it.

I'm also a little aggravated at the coaches who are seeking to grab players in the portal over working with an existing roster or incoming recruits to make them better. A coach can't or shouldn't ignore a perfectly good player in the portal but not at the expense of a player who may just need some additional coaching or development.

Many people are enjoying this year to see who leaves and who goes where. I am not, mainly because it shows how deeply flawed the system really is.

I have always felt that bringing in transfers over recruited players presents all kinds of issues for any program. But your post made me think about an additional consequence of the process. Coaches that rely heavily on the portal are becoming lazy.

Rather than investing 2+ years to recruit a player out of HS, and then another year or two developing that individual into a capable college basketball player, coaches can spend a couple weeks evaluating experienced college players in the portal, bring a few in, and they’re done.

No coach, not even Tara at Stanford, is immune from the ease of filling a hole in the roster by tapping into the portal. The problem with that is that many 2nd tier players never fully develop under a system that requires young players to immediately make an impact out of HS or get cast aside.

I think of McCowan at MSSt or Stokes & Chong at UConn. They all stuck around for 4 years, developed significantly as players, ultimately making it to the pros. Today, those types of kids are at risk of getting lost among the super seniors and immediately eligible transfers who relegate them to basketball purgatory.

 

[baggerbob]

I have always felt that bringing in transfers over recruited players presents all kinds of issues for any program. But your post made me think about an additional consequence of the process. Coaches that rely heavily on the portal are becoming lazy.

Rather than investing 2+ years to recruit a player out of HS, and then another year or two developing that individual into a capable college basketball player, coaches can spend a couple weeks evaluating experienced college players in the portal, bring a few in, and they’re done.

No coach, not even Tara at Stanford, is immune from the ease of filling a hole in the roster by tapping into the portal. The problem with that is that many 2nd tier players never fully develop under a system that requires young players to immediately make an impact out of HS or get cast aside.

I think of McCowan at MSSt or Stokes & Chong at UConn. They all stuck around for 4 years, developed significantly as players, ultimately making it to the pros. Today, those types of kids are at risk of getting lost among the super seniors and immediately eligible transfers who relegate them to basketball purgatory.

These AAU programs are going to have to start teaching their players basic basketball skills, or they won't get scholarships at division 1 schools.
Players that have played in college have film that coaches can watch for complete details, and not highlight film.

 

[oldude]

These AAU programs are going to have to start teaching their players basic basketball skills, or they won't get scholarships at division 1 schools.
Players that have played in college have film that coaches can watch for complete details, and not highlight film.

I wouldn’t count on AAU coaches doing very much teaching of basic basketball skills. At the AAU level it’s all about featuring top offensive players, period. Some HS coaches do a decent job. But it falls on college coaches to refine players out of HS, unless they decide it’s easier to just pluck players out of the portal.

 

[TC22]

Come to Ole Miss! We will recruit over you in the transfer portal every year!

Does Coach Yo even recruit high schoolers?

 

[dws3665]

Does Coach Yo even recruit high schoolers?

Yes, and then they transfer out 1-2 years later*.

* Unless they are Madison Scott**.

** So far.

 

[GCKSFN4L]

The biggest losers when it comes to the transfer portal are high school kids. Maybe not the top 50-100 kids but everyone else is seeing their offer list dwindle down because there's a more experienced player with no wait time to take a roster spot from them.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

If someone enters the portal, then they are also vacating a roster spot. So just entering the portal doesn't translate into fewer opportunities for hs kids. If you're entering the portal AND using year 5...that is different. I would still argue that the vast majority of players exercising year 5 aren't program changers or starters, but role players. Most hs recruits would be bench players or role players in year one at the best schools anyway.

 

[Dynastic]

Tanning destination.

No brainer : Miami > Fresno