Top 5 returning players at each position

[Justavisitor]

Very similar players. Reinna Davis operates a lot more at the wing than Odom but she isn't afraid to battle with the bigs for rebounds. She's good.

NOT better than Leonna Odom though. I got a good laugh at the OP trying to sneak her as a top 5 SF.

Leonna Odom does not have the perimeter game to be a top 5 SF. Statistically, Davis supersedes her and is more athletically explosive. I like Odom, but do think Davis is better.

 

[Shmermerer]

Leonna Odom does not have the perimeter game to be a top 5 SF. Statistically, Davis supersedes her and is more athletically explosive. I like Odom, but do think Davis is better.

I agree about Odom. She does not have perimeter skills. She has a one dribble pull up and that's it. The many times I watched her play she didn't shoot anything beyond maybe 10 feet. She's a 4. Her and Davis really aren't similar so I can't compare either because they don't play similar positions.

 

[Bliss]

Katie Lou is awesome but so is our Mizzou gal Sophie Cunningham. Looking forward to watching her last college year. With her size, toughness, and skill she'll be a first-rounder next year.

 

[bballnut90]

Tyasha Harris is a steady point guard, but not a top 5, IMO. It will be interesting to see how her numbers fair without A'ja Wilson, who boosts a point guards assist numbers. I wouldn't be surprised to see Te'a Cooper be a top 5.

Carter from aTm is a top scorer for sure, but when relied upon to run an offense, the pg skills are lacking. It will be interesting to see what Gary Blair does with her going forward or if she'll remain the offensive option on every possession.

Another player of interest will be Evina Westbrook and Megan Walker. Expect both players to crash that list.

No way is Cooper starting over Harris. Harris has her flaws but in terms of being a pass first PG she's very good. Cooper hasn't played in 2.5 years and was mediocre at Tennessee. I could see them starting alongside each other, but I'll be stunned if Cooper is a top 5 PG.

 

[Shades]

Katie Lou is awesome but so is our Mizzou gal Sophie Cunningham. Looking forward to watching her last college year. With her size, toughness, and skill she'll be a first-rounder next year.

I agree that she should be a first rounder if she stays healthy.


I’m curious about the Missouri team itself. Sounds like they’re changing their style of play because their best players lack height.... sorta like UConn? Positionless basketball. Cunningham considers herself a guard, while she’ll nearly be the tallest of the players who will see any court time. Looks like they do have a 6’4 freshman.

 

[SCspur]

Tyasha Harris is a steady point guard, but not a top 5, IMO. It will be interesting to see how her numbers fair without A'ja Wilson, who boosts a point guards assist numbers. I wouldn't be surprised to see Te'a Cooper be a top 5.

Carter from aTm is a top scorer for sure, but when relied upon to run an offense, the pg skills are lacking. It will be interesting to see what Gary Blair does with her going forward or if she'll remain the offensive option on every possession.

Another player of interest will be Evina Westbrook and Megan Walker. Expect both players to crash that list.

Name 5 other PGs you would take over Harris? Don’t take away the fact she led the SEC in assists, had 6 double-doubles and 2 of those were without Wilson in the court.

I think Te’a could have a big year. Yes she was mediocre and UT but Dawn is not Holly. But I don’t expect her to be seen much at the PG position. Right now it’ll just be Harris, Cuevas-Moore and Henderson. Cooper will likely get most of her time at SG.

 

[Shmermerer]

Name 5 other PGs you would take over Harris? Don’t take away the fact she led the SEC in assists, had 6 double-doubles and 2 of those were without Wilson in the court.

I think Te’a could have a big year. Yes she was mediocre and UT but Dawn is not Holly. But I don’t expect her to be seen much at the PG position. Right now it’ll just be Harris, Cuevas-Moore and Henderson. Cooper will likely get most of her time at SG.

Crystal Dangerfield
Marte Cazorla
Destiny Slocum
Kelly Campbell
Tiana Mangakahia
Marina Mabrey (even though not her true position)
Chennedy Carter

 

[Shades]

Crystal Dangerfield
Marte Cazorla
Destiny Slocum
Kelly Campbell
Tiana Mangakahia
Marina Mabrey (even though not her true position)
Chennedy Carter

Carmen Grande might be worth keeping an eye on now that she has transferred to Ohio St.

 

[Shmermerer]

Carmen Grande might be worth keeping an eye on now that she has transferred to Ohio St.

I agree; however, I think her assists might take a hit this year. Ohio State will be pretty weak this year.

 

[jonson]

Crystal Dangerfield
Marte Cazorla
Destiny Slocum
Kelly Campbell
Tiana Mangakahia
Marina Mabrey (even though not her true position)
Chennedy Carter

I don't quite understand why Ionescu gets left off lists like this. Yes, Cazorla often brings the ball up the court, but once the ball gets past half court Ionescu more often than not controls the UO offense. In saying this, I don't mean to take anything away from Cazorla, who is a fine point guard in her own right, but in my view Ionescu belongs in any conversation about the best point guard in college wbb. Yes, she can score (almost 20 points/game) and rebound (6.7/game, 1.8 on the offensive boards), but she also averaged 7.8 assists/game, and I don't think there is anyone in the college game who does more for her teammates.

 

[Shades]

I agree; however, I think her assists might take a hit this year. Ohio State will be pretty weak this year.

I’m hoping her assists bump up slightly from last year so she can reach the holy grail of 1000 assists.

84 steals last year. That’s pretty impressive.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Jonson, I often found myself lamenting the fact that Oregon had 2 of the top 3 PGs in the Pac 12 last year.

 

[Shmermerer]

I don't quite understand why Ionescu gets left off lists like this. Yes, Cazorla often brings the ball up the court, but once the ball gets past half court Ionescu more often than not controls the UO offense. In saying this, I don't mean to take anything away from Cazorla, who is a fine point guard in her own right, but in my view Ionescu belongs in any conversation about the best point guard in college wbb. Yes, she can score (almost 20 points/game) and rebound (6.7/game, 1.8 on the offensive boards), but she also averaged 7.8 assists/game, and I don't think there is anyone in the college game who does more for her teammates.

I agree with you. I should have added her to the list, but I still think Cazorla is a better point guard than Harris. Also Cazorla doesn’t just bring the ball up. She breaks down the defense better than Ionescu and most PG on the list I made.

 

[Shmermerer]

I’m hoping her assists bump up slightly from last year so she can reach the holy grail of 1000 assists.

View attachment 35034
84 steals last year. That’s pretty impressive.

I hope so too, but I don’t think she has the teammates do do that in the Big10. They only bring back one player that played any significant minutes (Watterman) and she wasn’t known for her scoring. I do thin Caretti will surprise people though.

 

[SCspur]

I agree with you. I should have added her to the list, but I still think Cazorla is a better point guard than Harris. Also Cazorla doesn’t just bring the ball up. She breaks down the defense better than Ionescu and most PG on the list I made.

Ty has something Cazorla doesn’t have ..... A Championship.

 

[Shmermerer]

Ty has something Cazorla doesn’t have ..... A Championship.

Very true, but based on that assessment the only point guard could be better than Harris is Marina Mabrey. Let’s see how Ty does without Aja.

 

[willtalk]

Lotrader's insight is more consistent with what most Oregon State fans think. I travel to Corvallis to watch most of the home games and know what McWilliams and Pivec mean to that program. I need to help willtalk a bit with his spelling. The correct spellings for OSU's current and former players are Gulich, McWilliams, and Pivec. Every time I see willtalk post about Gulish (sp), Williams (sp), or Pivek (sp) on this board or on other boards it makes me think that he really doesn't follow the Beavers enough to know that much about the squad. Or, he is a truly poor speller.

Yes. Pivec averaged two offensive boards per game last season from the point guard position! Ask Notre Dame's Muffet McGraw about Pivec's rebounding. Ask any PAC-12 coach about trying to keep Pivec off the boards. Having another quality ballhandler on the floor in Slocum will help both McWilliams and Pivec thrive during '18-'19. Both of those pass-first teammates have played out of position during their OSU careers to play the point when Sydney Wiese was injured ('15-'16 for McWilliams) and when Slocum was sitting out a season ('17-'18) due to her transfer from Maryland. Neither McWilliams or Pivec were recruited to play the point at Oregon State. They both assumed that role because their team had a need and they are extremely versatile players.

I can certainly understand the perspective you articulate in your first two sentences in support of LoTraders take. I suppose I need to remind or clarify my perspectives. In that context I do not understand what the purpose of your entire second paragraph was about. I basically agree with everything you stated. The entire thing was redundant and has been discussed and beaten to death. You are defending something that needs no defending. This would have only been relevant early last season. Of course you continuing like this is telling.

My disagreement with LoTrader and you was that I did not believe that we could at this time assume that Pivec and McWilliams were a lock to be starters. Now understand I never said they would not be starters. In fact it would not be a surprise if it turned out so. Especially now that both Corosdale and Tudor will have late starts due to recovering from operations. Now we might have to wait longer for it to work out. --- It is important to remember that if both Pivec and McWilliams end up starting I would not be wrong, but if they didn't you guys would be. Because I am not committed- frankly I don't know what Scott will do- I tend to lean to the side of caution when not sure.

I do have my own opinions, but it does not follow that Scott will have the same perspective. The entire " "Starting thing" is often overrated, especially on teams with a lot of talent. On those type of teams the starting line up is not always filled with the best players. I remember the Celtics great John Havlicek, one of the best of all time, who spent most of his career as the 6th man. Not because he was not good enough to start but because no one could add what he did off the bench. The measure of a player is not if you start but if you are in the line up at the end of close games. One reason I don't see both as a lock is for precisely that reason. There is one player who is totally suited as a 6th man. Of course if a certain freshman player would show those qualities that would negate their need in that role. The best 6th men also can come in at multiple positions. They have to be versatile. Putting a line up together when multiple choices are available opens up variable possibilities.

Now in respect to your criticism of my spelling. Yes I am a notoriously bad speller. There are various reasons for this so I just accept it as my lot. The leaving out the Mc in McWilliams was just an oversight of typing. The Pivec was my confusion with the spelling of a 49er TE Celek. I tend to look for distinct patterns and spelling does not seem to cooperate in that respect. As to Gulich I actually have been spelling that correctly but have seen it misspelled a few times recently, so recognizing my deficiency I deferred to them. That along with how people pronounce the name. In German ich is not pronounced like ish. Ich ( means I ) is a sound that most non native Germans have trouble with. They usually say Ik. Now I took quite a few years in German both in high school and college along with spending some years in Germany as well. Enough so that I can pronounce it correctly. I doubt that you or the majority of other Beaver fans can. Not being able to pronounce her name correctly would certainly not impact their perspective on her career. But you seem to think that spelling does.

.

 

[willtalk]

While I personally feel the emphasis on this one subject borders on thread hijacking, I feel impelled to respond to Pac12Hoopfan because of some of his previous posts on other sites. He has taken offense at some of my perspectives on the Oregon St team. Most were very general with a few being specific. Those that were specific were actually repeated by Hoopfan on this very thread. Basically that players filling in at the PG position were having problems. Most of those issues were worked out with experience as the season progressed. None of those last season issues even are relevant this season. Anyone reading my posts on this thread should wonder the reasoning for his response.

Since this person included in his post that their purpose was to enlighten everyone that about my ignorance and bias in respect to the Oregon St team, I feel a need to respond. Pac12Hoopfan, in his misunderstanding of many of my past posts, has stated that he would follow me around to various sites to correct what he feels are biased attacks on certain players. It seems obvious to me that Hoop seems to not be not defending players but their own fan perspective.

Basically Lotrader are on the same page except for one minor difference in respect to one players top end potential this season. I have a lot of respect for his opinion and on that one issue we can agree to disagree once our perspectives are voiced. This should be especially true since the player in question has made major strides in my eyes based on their production at the end of last season. It makes Lotraders perspective more possible if not probable. Unfortunately this has not been possible with Hoop.

Pac12 Hoopfan-- isn't it time you stopped Grinding that Ax? I can understand that you are coming from a fans perspective, but that fandom is more directed at certain players than the team as a whole. We all have players we become fans of, I know I have mine. But that should not interfere with objectivity. While there is nothing wrong with fans suspending objectivity. ( fans do all the time ). In some ways it makes the games more enjoyable. It's part of the entire sports fan dynamic. However, we need to know when to drop that sense of fanaticism and return to looking at things objectivity. That is especially true when a fan gets upset when another individual chooses to temporarily suspend fandom for objectivity. We can keep our fan perspectives, but we should not try to force those standards on others. Playing mother hen, especially when it is not called for, does not suit it self to forums where teams and players are evaluated.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

I think Ty Harris is going to have a big year. She faded a bit at the end of the season, but she did pick up her game when Aja was out.

I guess we will see what Dawn does with her sets this year, but if the team is less post centric this year and tries to get up and down and spread and attack the floor it should play right into her skill set.

The only thing that might keep her numbers down is the number of guards that Staley will have at her disposal. Not sure anyone will be playing a huge number of minutes in that group.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Coach Rueck himself said recently he has no idea who the starting 5 is going to be for OSU. I took that as a positive. He seems very excited about the team. I would assume it means he thinks he has more than 5 players that are starting caliber.

 

[willtalk]

Coach Rueck himself said recently he has no idea who the starting 5 is going to be for OSU. I took that as a positive. He seems very excited about the team. I would assume it means he thinks he has more than 5 players that are starting caliber.

That was my point. When you have a lot of quality players you can also consider the sequence of your rotations to establish balance when your subs are on the floor. That is why in the NBA the best teams often had one of their better players coming off the bench to avoid any drop off. When the first sub is versatile it also allows the coach the option of diverting from the standard rotation by replacing any of a number of players who might be struggling early in the game.

Running a larger rotation when the talent is there also provides a safeguard against players having an off game shooting or in any other aspect of the game. When you have good players not getting playing time they deserve it is a protection against them getting ticked off and transferring out of the program. It is protection from losing depth that might be needed in the future if not today. Oregon potential might feel the effects of this very problem should the injury bug hit them.

Everyone knows that Geno prefers a short lineup, but the consequences of that hit Uconn Moore's senior year. They just ran out of gas in the later stages of the NCAA's. I remember his side line demeanor towards the end of the ND game. He knew he was out of options much like a chess master recognizes when the game is lost. You just can not beat a dead horse to life or drive a car with an empty tank. .

 

[UConnCat]

Everyone knows that Geno prefers a short lineup, but the consequences of that hit Uconn Moore's senior year. They just ran out of gas in the later stages of the NCAA's. I remember his side line demeanor towards the end of the ND game. He knew he was out of options much like a chess master recognizes when the game is lost. You just can not beat a dead horse to life or drive a car with an empty tank. .

Not really accurate. It was more about inexperience and immaturity at two key positions That team had a freshman point guard and a freshman center who were not ready for the moment.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Not really accurate. It was more about inexperience and immaturity at two key positions That team had a freshman point guard and a freshman center who were not ready for the moment.

In my opinion, Stef's foul trouble cost us the game. We had a moderate lead until fouls caught up to us.

 

[willtalk]

In my opinion, Stef's foul trouble cost us the game. We had a moderate lead until fouls caught up to us.

Uconn Cat and Milfordhusky---- Both of your examples also reflect the problems of a short bench and lack of depth. I also remember them as being tired. Their short bench was brought up many times before the NCAA as a potential issue, but it wasn't until the ND game. I might be mistaken, but didn't the team lose a player via transfer early that season? He name escapes me at present. It wasn't just a short rotation but a short bench that was the problem. That is why they had to play inexperienced freshman and fouls problems had a major impact.

 

[UConnCat]

Uconn Cat and Milfordhusky---- Both of your examples also reflect the problems of a short bench and lack of depth. I also remember them as being tired. Their short bench was brought up many times before the NCAA as a potential issue, but it wasn't until the ND game. I might be mistaken, but didn't the team lose a player via transfer early that season? He name escapes me at present. It wasn't just a short rotation but a short bench that was the problem. That is why they had to play inexperienced freshman and fouls problems had a major impact.

Samarie Walker, also a freshman, transferred earlier in the season. Hartley and Dolson, both freshman, were starters from the beginning of the season. As Geno said after the ND game, they played like freshmen.

Notre Dame played 7 players in the game and UConn played 6. Fatigue wasn't the difference. Maya Moore didn't take 30 shots because her teammates were tired. She took 30 shots because her teammates weren't ready to play in a game like that.