Tonight at 7 on espn Olympic team versus...
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eebmg
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Plebe
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A'ja Wilson led with 16 points and 10 rebounds. Stewie had 14 points and 6 assists.
Many people seem to have been under the impression that it was Collier who "took" Nneka's spot, but it's evident from these exhibition games that Collier is being used primarily as a 3 and so if anything it was Wilson who, as the lone first-timer interior player, was taken ahead of Nneka.
Weird that E. Williams played for Nigeria but neither Nneka nor Chiney did (they were on the bench but not in uniform). I haven't heard any update about Williams' appeal, or maybe Nneka and Chiney are still injured?
Many people seem to have been under the impression that it was Collier who "took" Nneka's spot, but it's evident from these exhibition games that Collier is being used primarily as a 3 and so if anything it was Wilson who, as the lone first-timer interior player, was taken ahead of Nneka.
Weird that E. Williams played for Nigeria but neither Nneka nor Chiney did (they were on the bench but not in uniform). I haven't heard any update about Williams' appeal, or maybe Nneka and Chiney are still injured?
I agree it won’t happen. But I also agree it is the best lineup.
eebmg
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Full game high lights
USA WOMEN'S NATIONAL TEAM vs. NIGERIA | Full Game Highlights | July 18, 2021 - YouTube
USA WOMEN'S NATIONAL TEAM vs. NIGERIA | Full Game Highlights | July 18, 2021 - YouTube
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Watched the whole game. They moved the ball much better, played better defense, and got the ball inside where they shot 16-21 in the first half. Team is totally different with Bird on the court, she is our only pure point, makes it all flow, and still can knock down a 3. Gray looked better but she is more of a scoring point and dribbles more than she should and is looking more to score than to start the offense. Atkins looked good but again not a point, a 2 guard and Lloyd was better also and Skylar was about the same. Pheesa was better but not significantly.
When Wilson, who played well, and Griner came out, Fowles and Charles came in. Charles looked out of sync tonight but the second wave of power and height should be too much for most international teams. They will all try to run on us to offset the size disadvantage. The team doesn't have the cohesive look of the best team in the world and I worry about getting it now but then I remember we have Diana who will be rested and in the backcourt with Sue so there will be two coaches on the floor who can control the game from the guard position and they are two of the best passers the women's game has ever seen. If you didn't know Bird was 40 years old you would never guess it.
It is going to be all about the front court and getting the ball in there when our bigs are in the right place. Everything we have all been saying about the composition of the team ( no back up pure point like Lindsay Whalen or 3 player like Augustus) remains true but it will not matter if we stay healthy and the ball gets inside and we play interior and perimeter defense like we can.
When Wilson, who played well, and Griner came out, Fowles and Charles came in. Charles looked out of sync tonight but the second wave of power and height should be too much for most international teams. They will all try to run on us to offset the size disadvantage. The team doesn't have the cohesive look of the best team in the world and I worry about getting it now but then I remember we have Diana who will be rested and in the backcourt with Sue so there will be two coaches on the floor who can control the game from the guard position and they are two of the best passers the women's game has ever seen. If you didn't know Bird was 40 years old you would never guess it.
It is going to be all about the front court and getting the ball in there when our bigs are in the right place. Everything we have all been saying about the composition of the team ( no back up pure point like Lindsay Whalen or 3 player like Augustus) remains true but it will not matter if we stay healthy and the ball gets inside and we play interior and perimeter defense like we can.
UConnCat
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Well, both Nneka and Wilson were on the 2018 World Cup team and Collier was not. Still, I think your point about Collier playing the 3 was exactly why she was chosen and not Nneka. Once they decided to go with BG, Syl, Tina and A’ja, the last thing the team needs is another post player to clog up the lane and bog down the offense. As it is they have Stevie playing out of position on the wing. It really was about choosing complementary pieces in a less than ideal situation (i.e., lack of a strong natural wing player). Napheesa has the versatility the team needed.
EricSD
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The starters all had a +/- in the 18-24 point range. The reserves struggled to eek out positive +/- numbers, but when they turned up the defensive intensity, they played better. There seems to be a pretty dramatic drop off when you switch from Sue, Jewell, Stewie, A'ja, and Britt to Chelsea, Skyler, Ariel/Pheesa, Tina and Sylvia.
Sue is still the GOAT PG of all time. Of all the guards that were eligible for Team USA to choose from, she's the best, and it's not even close. Hopefully Dee comes back and reminds everyone of the same as the GOAT at any position.
Ball movement seemed better. But the guard "subs" still relied too much 1 on 1 IMHO, especially Chelsea Gray. She had a nice "shake and bake" that the announcers were like "OMG that is so great", but the reality is, this is TEAM USA. I think she's still learning to play as a true facilitator. Hopefully watching GOAT PG Sue run and control the team will help her out.
I worry that the next generation of USA PG's will all be scoring 1st guards. PG's like Ogunowale and Carter would NOT be good for TEAM ball for USA. I'd much rather see players like Ionescu, Bueckers, Clark, Fudd, etc. Hopefully they are ready sooner rather than later cuz from a team ball perspective, not liking what I see outside of Sue (and Dee - we all know how she plays). I wish Vandersloot were eligible.
Loyd seems to be a better fit as the next 2G after Dee. Plays within herself, solid in the team concept, and fun to watch. It seems like taking last year off really helped Griner. Most other teams will have no answer for Stewie, A'ja and Brit. Better game, but Nigera was not the best competition they will face by far. Still, good improvement.
Sue is still the GOAT PG of all time. Of all the guards that were eligible for Team USA to choose from, she's the best, and it's not even close. Hopefully Dee comes back and reminds everyone of the same as the GOAT at any position.
Ball movement seemed better. But the guard "subs" still relied too much 1 on 1 IMHO, especially Chelsea Gray. She had a nice "shake and bake" that the announcers were like "OMG that is so great", but the reality is, this is TEAM USA. I think she's still learning to play as a true facilitator. Hopefully watching GOAT PG Sue run and control the team will help her out.
I worry that the next generation of USA PG's will all be scoring 1st guards. PG's like Ogunowale and Carter would NOT be good for TEAM ball for USA. I'd much rather see players like Ionescu, Bueckers, Clark, Fudd, etc. Hopefully they are ready sooner rather than later cuz from a team ball perspective, not liking what I see outside of Sue (and Dee - we all know how she plays). I wish Vandersloot were eligible.
Loyd seems to be a better fit as the next 2G after Dee. Plays within herself, solid in the team concept, and fun to watch. It seems like taking last year off really helped Griner. Most other teams will have no answer for Stewie, A'ja and Brit. Better game, but Nigera was not the best competition they will face by far. Still, good improvement.
Plebe
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Fowles did not play in the 2018 WC, which opened up an extra spot for a big (Nneka or A'ja).
UConnCat
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Yes, I forgot about Syl not playing In Tenerife. So it was Syl or Nneka and looking towards defending Cambage was likely the deciding factor. A’ja was always going to be on the team.
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The starting 5 are good, Sylvia off the bench is good. Get DT back, and go with that 7. If Tina manages to get her head together, that would be 8. Atkins has too many careless turnovers to be on the floor. Gray and Skylar both dribble too much.
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100% agree. In 2016 there was actually a "bump up" sometimes and not a "drop off" when Whalen came in for Sue and Augustus came in as the 3. The second wave is not more of the same this year at all except that I think our two next bigs, Tina and Syl will do damage because it is a second wave and no other team's second string front court can stay with them.
A subtle yet unique factor in Bird and DT's game as guards is that they set up the next likely good pass with their first pass because they see the next chess move. I don't see that in any of the others and I don't think you will see it again until it's Paige, Sabrina, Fudd or Clark.
It's not just about individual talent, it's about teamwork, chemistry and cohesiveness and I don't see the same visible signs of that in this team as in the past. You know a big part of that was Geno. The 2016 team was crazy unselfish and probably the greatest women's team ever.
Plebe
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In the next "quadrennial" — now shortened to 3 years — it will be interesting to see who among Bueckers, Clark and Fudd are added to the national team pool. Bueckers and Clark will be four years into college in 2024.
The quick turnaround (13 months) between Tokyo and the 2022 WC in Australia will be very telling in terms of the evolution of the USWNT roster.
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'emerged'? she was WNBA MVP last year.
Don’t forget about Ionescu. Hopefully she can return back to what she was.
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Plebe
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Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest I was forgetting her. I'm kind of assuming she'll be on either the 5x5 or 3x3 roster, as long as she's healthy.
I was wondering more about the current young collegians.
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I’m team Gamecock so have to stomach the Dawn hate on here but those that watched the game today were spot on. Sue is Sue. Just pray she stays healthy. I agree on SDS and Gray - they dribble too much. Jewell Lloyd looked like a different player today and hit some timely threes. A’ja and Stewart are the best players out there and they play very well together. Griner is Griner and she was dominant today and will be most games. The first 5 played very fast, scoring in transition several times. I thought they got more into a game mode rotation today. Heavy on the starting 5 and Syl and Tina. They subbed others in here and there to give the others a breather. One thing about Dawn, she isn’t going to rush the PROCESS just to win an exhibition game. She’s going to give everybody game time to prove themselves but when it comes crunch time she’ll make a hard decision. Cheryl Reeves and Dan Hughes are the two asst coaches and probably know the USA players’ tendencies better than she does, although I’m sure she’s done HER homework. I know the competition wasn’t As good, but USA seemed to have figured some stuff out. I think anything we get from Diana will be a bonus. She’s been out for a month though so figure when she plays it will be in short spurts. Even the rookies looked better today. Regardless of the coach or players I’ve always been team USA. My second team this year will be Canada, since Amihere is on that one. Let’s just hope everyone stays safe and healthy.
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As others wrote, Team USA got an issue with the guards...they are not that great for this team...it's lucky to have Bird (and hopefully DT) to make it look like team USA and not just a group of talented individual players. Gray and SDS are just not the type of PG's needed for such a team to ensure ball movement. The bigs are great! Wilson, Stewie, BG, Tina and Fowles are just a different level than anybody else.
Plebe
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I'm assuming they've named some alternates as well? Still seems like a lot.
I think almost all of the Nigerians played NCAA ball. A few former Pac-12 stars:
Promise Amukamara (ASU), Ify Ibekwe (Arizona), and Atonye Nyingifa (UCLA).
I also recognize Amy Okonkwo (TCU), Victoria Macaulay (Temple), and Adaora Elonu (was on TAMU's 2011 championship team).
The player that would have helped this team is EDD, she along with Stewie, and A'ja would have given the USA 3 players who no one could guard. You could have A'ja, Stewie, and EDD on the floor at the same time.
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Now that cambage isn’t playing, is there anyone who can guard Griner?
eebmg
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Griner
The problem will be teams like Australia who play 5 out. That's where EDD would have been very valuable. The 3 of EDD, Stewie, and A'ja can go out and pressure people.
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Of course. He & CD post one of these, but with fiercer moves, every day.
My take is that without DT, the team only has one reliable guard, Sue. Also, when Sue and DT are out there, it really won’t matter what other bigs you put out there. I think the best for team play would be to add Aja and Pheesa, but really any 2 of Sylvia, Charles and Griner would be just as good, more dominating perhaps, but maybe less “team”.
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