To all those predicting our demise. | Page 5 | The Boneyard

To all those predicting our demise.

superjohn said:
They had something like the 6th best record in the AAC with arguably the most talented roster.
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With no PG. Which, in MCBB, is everything. Without a PG, talent is irrelevant. Unless you have LeBron.

Gibbs <> PG. Jalen -> a freshman scoring guard who didn't know the first thing about leading a college team coming in.

To me, having an elite PG (a 1-2 punch actually) is 70-80% of the battle in MCBB. It makes up for a LOT of ills.
 
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businesslawyer said:
Please stop. 2006 didn't underperform. They were a top 5 team all year that happened to play a lousy game at the wrong time and fell a rimmed out 3 from the Final Four.

We can kill this program with our expectations if we try
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Great team, but did you see them that Tournament? They were not playing well the entire time. And very likely would have gotten smacked by Florida in the next rd had they beaten George Mason. I meant to write 'underperformed', as I was making a comparison between lacking players at the guard position to winning your critical games (vs expectations). That particular team was good enough that it didn't hit them until the NCAA tournament.
 
intlzncster said:
If they had a great point guard, they probably wouldn't have.
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Hamilton was our power forward. He was our leading assist man in 20 of our games that year. We lost about 5 games we shouldn't have that year. 29-5 is way different than 24-10 going into the tournament.
 
shizzle787 said:
Hamilton was our power forward. He was our leading assist man in 20 of our games that year. We lost about 5 games we shouldn't have that year. 29-5 is way different than 24-10 going into the tournament.
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This is a non sequitur.
 
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The August arguments were made 2x over with football. Pasqualoni needs time and the fans didn't get it. Diaco needed time and the fans didn't get it. Nobody was an expert, yada yada. The truth is fans have pretty good eyes and expertise for the most part. There are always those who refuse to accept reality and will find rationale as why things are not as expected. They will blame the bad fan, point to lack of loyalty, being spoiled, being unrealistic, not getting it, etc.. The truth is KO inherited one of the most dominant BB programs in college over the prior 20 years. It looks nothing like that now. That's a fact. If KO can't get it done. It's time to move on. If we don't make the Tournament, he has to go. We are entitled to nothing but what we earn, and we simply are not earning it with recruiting, player development, execution or even basic competitive intensity. I wish it was different, and I hope against all reason that KO suddenly finds the groove that transforms things.
 
shizzle787 said:
This is the truth though. He averaged like 6 assists a game, and Gibbs had about 4 a game. We created offense.
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Hamilton averaged 4.7 agp. Add 2.5 TOs per game as well. The problem with Hamilton is that he shot 38% from the field. Daniel Hamilton is not LeBron.

Oh and Gibbs had 2.3 apg.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Good grief. I'm a lawyer too and even I find that needlessly strict interpretation annoying. I don't focus on time periods. The last couple of years up to now, whenever now is. Whatever our personal periods of dissatisfaction are. I will assume that they don't extend to March, 2014, but with this crowd who knows?

It's part of being a fan. I gripe about Tom Brady stupidly throwing 40 yard bombs into double coverage on 3rd and 3 when he has an open man 5 yards down field. Doesn't mean I don't support the team or that he isn't Freaking Tom Brady. It sure as hell doesn't mean I want the pass to be incomplete. Don't we all love watching absurdly stupid shot attempts go in? I just wish they didn't fall so often for our opponents.
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I’m a lawyer tooReal lawyers don’t advertise the fact that there a lawyer in their username. Good grief.
businesslawyer said:
So this is KO's record:

1. Comes in to take over a short handed team with no expectations at the last minute, facing a post-season ban, and keeps them in the last Big East title race all year long somehow.

2. Wins national championship. While folks are complaining about regular season losses.

3. Has letdown/rebuilding year after national championship. Like we had even under the great one in years like '10 and '12. Terrible year but hardly shocking or problematic.

4. Has perfectly acceptable year, with conference tournament championship and getting to round of 32 in Tourney.

5. Has terrible year where we lose 3 players -- potentially 2 of our best 3 players -- for basically entire season, and have to fight through other injuries and illnesses with a roster of 7 and a half players, 3.5 of whom could only handle the ball in the paint. Yes, we got off to an unprecedently bad start before the injuries hit -- blame KO for a bad November.

6. Are 6-2, which is where we expected to be before knowing the injuries we'd be fighting through.

If you lay that out as a record, and looked at someone elses's coach doing that, you would think people calling for his head are just dumb. So why would that not be the analysis here?
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Your post is one giant justification and rationalization. You know what I know? If we fail to make the tournament again this year (and all indications point to that as the likeliest outcome) , we will have made the NCAA tournament 1x in 4 years. There’s no excuse if that happens. None. This is Uconn not Monmouth College.
 
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intlzncster said:
Hamilton averaged 4.7ass. Add 2.5 TOs per game as well. The problem with Hamilton is that he shot 38% from the field. Daniel Hamilton is not LeBron.

Oh and Gibbs had 2.3asspg.
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Adams and Purvis also had a few assists a game so we had somewhere between 10-12 assists per game. We could move the ball and we could score.
 
shizzle787 said:
Adams and Purvis also had a few assists a game so we had somewhere between 10-12 assists per game. We could move the ball and we could score.
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It's not about assists per game man. Or running offense. It's about having 1 or two guys --preferably at the point because they have their hands on the ball-- who take over games during winning time or at critical junctures. Guys who can get their own shot and make it whenever they need to. If you put this year's Jalen Adams on that team, we'd be talking a whooooole different story.
 
intlzncster said:
If they had a great point guard, they probably wouldn't have.
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You're overselling this point.

Do you honestly think they achieved properly as far as wins and losses based on the talent of that team (your issues at PG included)?

They lost to non-NCAA Houston at home, by 26 @SMU, twice to non-NCAA Temple, @Tulsa.

Plus lost all 3 neutral tossups with Gonzaga, Syracuse, and Maryland and were swept by Cincinnati in regular season.
 
auror said:
You're overselling this point.

Do you honestly think they achieved properly as far as wins and losses based on the talent of that team (your issues at PG included)?

They lost to non-NCAA Houston at home, by 26 @SMU, twice to non-NCAA Temple, @Tulsa.

Plus lost all 3 neutral tossups with Gonzaga, Syracuse, and Maryland and were swept by Cincinnati in regular season.
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I didn't say they were great. They underperformed a bit, but not drastically.

The final result isn't all that far off from where I thought they'd be. Again, no PG. No elite player. What they were was fatally flawed. Hugely limited ceiling.

You can' oversell the impact of a great PG in MCBB. Just look at 2011 and 2014 for a QED.
 
jleves said:
He may not have started at the top of the mountain, but he was several camps above base camp when got the program. We're back to base camp at best.
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The base camp of a post season ban and recruiting sanctions and losing the big east?

Yeah sounds like an easy trek to the top. The revisionist history there is mind blowing.
 
intlzncster said:
I didn't say they were great. They underperformed a bit, but not drastically.

The final result isn't all that far off from where I thought they'd be. Again, no PG. No elite player. What they were was fatally flawed. Hugely limited ceiling.

You can' oversell the impact of a great PG in MCBB. Just look at 2011 and 2014 for a QED.
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A great point guard does look to pass first though. It helps their game, and the team if they are also a dangerous scorer. One of the problems on this team in 2017 is that Ollie once again made Gilbert the “point guard” and moved Adams off the ball. Now he’s back on the ball and is not playing like a point guard. We need him to get back to making others better.
 
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To all those predicting our demise.

I thought about those words. Then I realized that the demise had already happened. There is no need to predict it. Can things improve under KO? Yes, to some degree. However, from a logical standpoint there is no reason to think that UConn will ever be really good again under KO. By really good I mean Elite Eight or Final Four caliber. Before you jump all over me for saying that, watch a really good team play. Notice the ball movement, the easy baskets, the basketball IQ. These are things we have not had consistently in years. These are also things that are essential to being really good.

You can shoot the messenger all you want, but it is what it is. Look at the talent on UConn's roster compared to that of Columbia. Is that a game that should have gone to overtime?

Would I be thrilled if UConn became very good again under KO? Certainly. But the far more likely outcome is performance like we have seen the past 3 seasons. And based on that, I am going to conclude that the demise has already taken place.
 
JMick said:
By hill I was speaking in regards to trajectory. If this chart were reversed we wouldn't be having this conversation
View attachment 26709
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It is that Ollie created the top of that hill (and under difficult circumstances), he didn't come in on top of it.



Sonova said:
Cmon...”nosedive?” He inherited a program that was coming off of 2 and a National Championship in the prior 4 years! And he had a pretty impressive cupboard of talent to work with - so so much that they won ANOTHER Championship in his second season (after the ban btw so he didn’t have to carry that particular burden any longer). Throw in uninterrupted access to his mentor, an incredibly loyal and passionate fan base, a brand new practice facility, and (i get this may not be everyone’s opinion of an asset, it I’d argue that it was in his first few years) a weakened competition set from which to develop as a coach).

Jeez, man, clearly you’ve never been a college coach because every coach in college athletics would tell you that he got a pretty great setup from which to launch his coaching career.
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It was a great program which just missed the tournament, had a bunch of players transfer, had a loss of scholarships and an NCAA ban, had just been SCREWED in conference realignment and lost a HOF coach. His hire was forced by his mentor and he had a three month contract.
Maybe nosedive was a little strong, but we had been decimated. Our reputation was hurt by our violations and many predicted our demise.
May not have coached in college but I know enough to remember we were still playing in the real BE when Ollie took over.
 
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intlzncster said:
With no PG. Which, in MCBB, is everything. Without a PG, talent is irrelevant. Unless you have LeBron.

Gibbs <> PG. Jalen -> a freshman scoring guard who didn't know the first thing about leading a college team coming in.

To me, having an elite PG (a 1-2 punch actually) is 70-80% of the battle in MCBB. It makes up for a LOT of ills.
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jleves said:
He may not have started at the top of the mountain, but he was several camps above base camp when got the program. We're back to base camp at best.
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Agree. But a lot of bad stuff happened to UConn after 2011. Loss of conference, loss of scholarships, loss of reputation, a ban, 3 players transferred, etc.
Ollie improved UConn's status when he got here in 13 and 14. He did not come here at its peak which is what was stated
 
Ollie isn’t going anywhere and the AD would be a fool to get rid of him after this year especially with KO bringing in a guy like Chill. Obviously he needs additional 2 years before the BY start looking elsewhere for coaches to hire. I really think this is the hardest year KO will face with all the scrutiny n critics n keep in mind a tough AAC slate, Wichita twice , temple, smu, Cincinnati, Houston , ucf etc .. we have Syracuse tonight get the win and we head to Arizona n auburn talk about tough! I don’t care bout how we get the wins, I’ll leave it here with this going to be a interesting season.. Go Blue
 
BlueDogs said:
The August arguments were made 2x over with football. Pasqualoni needs time and the fans didn't get it. Diaco needed time and the fans didn't get it. Nobody was an expert, yada yada. The truth is fans have pretty good eyes and expertise for the most part. There are always those who refuse to accept reality and will find rationale as why things are not as expected. They will blame the bad fan, point to lack of loyalty, being spoiled, being unrealistic, not getting it, etc.. The truth is KO inherited one of the most dominant BB programs in college over the prior 20 years. It looks nothing like that now. That's a fact. If KO can't get it done. It's time to move on. If we don't make the Tournament, he has to go. We are entitled to nothing but what we earn, and we simply are not earning it with recruiting, player development, execution or even basic competitive intensity. I wish it was different, and I hope against all reason that KO suddenly finds the groove that transforms things.
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If P (or Diaco) won a title his second year here (regardless of who recruited the players) do you think for a second he wouldn't still be running the football team?
 
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businesslawyer said:
No. Expressing dissatisfaction with what we've seen the last couple of years is what you do in the offseason. Anyone who supports the team, once the season starts, is concerned about winning as many games as possible.
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It’s possible to walk and chew gum at the same time. I want UConn to win every game. This is a chat board, though, not the Board of Trustees. What people say here amounts to zero, just folks saying what they are thinking. Making observations isn’t the same as rooting for losses. If people here are so down on KO that they actually root for losses, I think that is not so good, but telling them to be quiet (my censored phrase) seems silly

I am a UConn fan, been so through about 7 coaches. Coaches come and go. I want all of them to win. I don’t boo at games, always cheer and am among those trying to get things going by making noise when things aren’t going so great. . But that doesn’t mean I can’t observe pretty frequent flaws in execution and mention it on a chat board.
 
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cohenzone said:
What people say here amounts to zero, just folks saying what they are thinking
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Im fine with people saying what they are thinking, but it doesnt amount to zero. Lets not kid ourselves. Jacobs piece the other day I promise you was largely based on him scanning this site. Recruits and players families scan this site.
Does that mean I think people should stifle their opinions because people are reading them? Absolutely not. As you point out its a message board. It is its purpose. But it does not exist in a vacuum.
 
SouthBayHusky said:
I’m a lawyer tooReal lawyers don’t advertise the fact that there a lawyer in their username. Good grief.

Your post is one giant justification and rationalization. You know what I know? If we fail to make the tournament again this year (and all indications point to that as the likeliest outcome) , we will have made the NCAA tournament 1x in 4 years. There’s no excuse if that happens. None. This is Uconn not Monmouth College.
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South Bay - I'm a lawyer as well. I generally find 2 types. 1) Those who feel the need to tell everyone else they are a lawyer to assert some of form of presumed superiority and 2) those that are smart enough to recognize most dislike lawyers because of No. 1 and go about their business without self adornment. I give Business Law a break as a long time contributor, and give a pass although it makes me cringe as a member of the profession.
 
shizzle787 said:
Adams and Purvis also had a few assists a game so we had somewhere between 10-12 assists per game. We could move the ball and we could score.
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Problem with that team was that it took 20+ games for Ollie to realize he needed to move Gibbs off the ball, or at the very least not put Gibbs in the type of role that Shabazz, Boat, and now Jalen are in.
 
August_West said:
Im fine with people saying what they are thinking, but it doesnt amount to zero. Lets not kid ourselves. Jacobs piece the other day I promise you was largely based on him scanning this site. Recruits and players families scan this site.
Does that mean I think people should stifle their opinions because people are reading them? Absolutely not. As you point out its a message board. It is its purpose. But it does not exist in a vacuum.
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And that is a weird thing all by itself. If a sportswriter is basing his opinions on what 12 anonymous people on a chat board are saying, it’s a messed up world. Most of us have watched enough hoops to identify performance issues. But how many of us have actual coaching experience, if any, above town pee wee leagues?

As far as players go, you’d hope that, if they take chat board opinions with more than a grain of salt, they’d react to negative stuff by saying “I’ll show those idiots.”

Anyway. Go Huskies.
 
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