The View From Section 241 -- Realignment

[John Greene]

I'm assuming that this is not a single criteria. This was in response to the suggestion that somehow a step in expansion would be to call Randy Edsall and get his sign-off on Jim Calhoun.

You should not read into my post that Edsall was in any way "consulted" or had to "sign-off". Just that some ACC people have looked at the Uconn athletic department and raised questions.

 

[Vowelguy]

I disagree on all three. Fans want rivals to suck. Guys that program TV content do not. Administrators do not. The Pac12 has a "Noah's Ark" model (their term, not mine). They won't add a school without a natural rival. See: USC/UCLA, UA/ASU, Cal/Stanford, UW/WSU, UO/OSU, CU/UU

What rivalry are talking about?
- UConn & BC have not played in other in any major sport in years.
- They were never FB rivals.

A better comparison would non-conference rivals like Fla St & Fla (or Clem/SC or Penn St/Pitt- which is barely even a rivalry anymore). Do they want the other to suck? Hell yes. Then they get all the prestige, and have a recruiting advantage.

 

[CL82]

BCU is not an obstacle and for the record, the three ACC members with the most conference clout (UNC, UVA & Duke) all prefer UConn to any other possible candidate (including the two who were just added). Our not being part of the first phase of expansion wasn't due to any ACC members preventing us from being part of their conference.

Okay, I'll bite. What do you think it is due to?

 

[uconnric]

For what?

Things were a lot better for BC when UConn was an athletics backwater. I'm sure they'd love for that to happen again.

BC is mortified that we would surpass them in NE football superiority. That's one of the reasons they left in the first place. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if they instigated talks with Pitt and Syracuse to achieve this result.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

 

[upstater]

What would he say? If he suggests that we shouldn't join the ACC, he's crazy, and it's too short-term.

Calhoun has spoken openly in the past of joining the ACC. I'd be shocked if he were against it.

 

[upstater]

You should not read into my post that Edsall was in any way "consulted" or had to "sign-off". Just that some ACC people have looked at the Uconn athletic department and raised questions.

I'd expect them to look at the AD, but those questions exist anywhere. I could cite similar questions about BC and VT and hell Miami and Cuse and Pitt. UConn is no different than any of these schools. Well, except for Miami.

 

[John Greene]

I'd expect them to look at the AD, but those questions exist anywhere. I could cite similar questions about BC and VT and hell Miami and Cuse and Pitt. UConn is no different than any of these schools. Well, except for Miami.

I agree that there are always questions that must, and should be asked. What may make things a little more complicated in our case is that the changes, new president and temp AD are so recent in one case and ongoing in the other. No implication that this in someway disqualifies us. We should be there, but I would feel a lot better about it if our president had been around for more than a couple of months and we had an AD that was more than a caretaker. Man was a great fund raiser but who knows what follows the temporary period or how long it is.

 

[huskydave]

Pitt and SU's actions were self serving and not for "the greater good", and I don't blame them one bit. Their first priority is the welfare of their school. They acted as such. It's a dog eat dog "business" and right now the remaining big east schools are wearing milk bone underwear. UConn will be fine when it's all said and done, just need to deal w/ the anxiety/unknown for the time being. Conference realignment is FAR from over.

Agreed.

Hopefully, UConn wil be making a similar decision soon.

As for ESPN getting involved, I am not a businessman or a lawyer, but it is not a huge leap to conclude they have their hands in this. They have a product and brand to protect and promote. As for the legality of big businesses back room deals; I would rather worry about how much I pay at the pump or at the doctor's office.

 

[HuskyBarker]

I believe it objectively. I believe that Herbst is on top of the situation and has been for some time. You are, of course, correct about Pitt/BC and ND. I guess I was more focused on the schools ND would probably dislike playing. No conference would turn down ND. However, I don't think ND's eyes are in the Southeast and I can't believe ND wants to give up its Midwest roots, MSU, Michigan, NW, Purdue, USC/Stanford (West I know) and Navy (I know, East). We do not have idiots running the show in Storrs. Not now.

I believe the same thing. Life is like a game of chess, each move and possibility has to be considered 30 moves out. Swofford to Marinate checkmate. So disappointed to see the BE go down like this. I'll miss MSG. Wonder how the Yankee's Pinstripe Bowl are gonna feel about this?

 

[Murph]

I believe the same thing. Life is like a game of chess, each move and possibility has to be considered 30 moves out. Swofford to Marinate checkmate. So disappointed to see the BE go down like this. I'll miss MSG. Wonder how the Yankee's Pinstripe Bowl are gonna feel about this?

If BE football goes away because the leftovers join the Big 12 schools, I would hope they'd become an ACC bowl (Assuming UConn is in the ACC)

 

[RS9999X]

So disappointed to see the BE go down like this. I'll miss MSG. Wonder how the Yankee's Pinstripe Bowl are gonna feel about this?

If Rutgers and UConn get added a MSG tourney alternating with Greensboro is highly possible as is at least one Yankee Bowl matchup a year. Alternating Hartford and Greensboro for the Women? I'd think that's smart business for them for a decade anyway and consolidate the fan base and advertising.

 

[J187Money]

I'd be happy with either ACC or Big Ten.

I think the ACC makes more sense but as a Midwest guy I'd love to go to the Big Ten.

Either way we are ok. Anything else sucks.

 

[businesslawyer]

A lot of interesting thoughts. A few more on my end, with it being clear that the 4 big XII teams to the Pac 97.

1. If there were no further Big East losses, I think the Big XII leftovers would join the Big East hybrid. If, however, UConn, RU and WVU land somewhere, I think the basketball schools say enough, the Big East stops sponsoring football and USF, Cincy, LV and maybe a Boise, BYU or other MWC or CUSA school joins a reconstituted and watered down Big XII. Now, the A Ten gets to be raided.

2. I think ND joins a conference. Remember, the administration wanted to join the Big Ten a while back but yielded to alumni pressure. I think that this time, they use the timing pressure that Swofford has created on the process and join (likely the Big Ten but I don't think with the right TV deal the ACC is impossible) a league and tell the alumni they had to act immediately and there was no time for alumni input.

3. I don't think the Big Ten or SEC are going to find it easy to poach ACC members after this. I think to outpay the ACC contract, which will be revised upwards, will require paying teams more than they are worth.

4. The Big Ten is playing for big boy stakes right now. There strength has always come in part from not just being the midwest conference, but also more the northeast conference than any single other group. The expanded ACC, if they take RU and UConn, could grow into the major product in the Northeast markets. The Big Ten has to decide if they are willing to overpay for UConn and RU, or risk having their principal region shrunk. Real guts ball.

5. I have trouble thinking anyone is "blackballing" UConn. Pitt was a plaintiff as well in the suit. To quote the Godfather movie, "it's just business."

6. If I have a choice between Big Ten and ACC, it's a no brainer. ACC has more drivable games, a largely northeast football conference, chance to play hoops tourneys in NYC and better hoops. I really don't see why I would prefer the Big Ten (although beggars can't be choosers).

This could go on for a while. However, given the jobs, student-athletes and state interests at stake, I would hope the power leagues would have the decency to do whatever they are going to do and get it over with so everyone can get on with their lives. But I'm not betting on decency at the moment, LOL.

 

[teresias216]

I think those are some solid points, and #2 on that list is what has me most worried. If ND decides to go to the ACC, there is a real possibility of a Rutgers v UConn v Louisville showdown for the last spot. I also think that the ACC will take no more teams UNTIL ND states its position. I would put the odds for UConn as 65% ACC, 30% Big East 5% Big 10 at this point.

 

[Excalibur]

You should not read into my post that Edsall was in any way "consulted" or had to "sign-off". Just that some ACC people have looked at the Uconn athletic department and raised questions.

There are obvious questions about our athletic department that need to be addressed, particularly in the way it has been run in the last few years. Some of them can be addressed by hiring an experienced BCS conference AD with ties to/relationships with the ACC and/or B1G. That list does not include Paul Pendergast, who I like and respect.

The other part -- athletic performance -- is a potential issue for us. What happens when JC retires? I think that many assume that we will not be able to compete at the highest level once he is gone.

 

[UConnNick]

The ACC doesn't ask BC for their opinion, the ACC tells BC what their opinion is. If the bigs in the ACC want UConn then BC will get in line. Simple as that.

BS College = ACC lapdog. They're about as relevant to the ACC as Ron Paul is to any presidential election.

 

[ZooCougar]

Going forward, it's hard to determine what might happen because there are alot of possible outcomes.

1. The most desired one of course; we get accepted into either the ACC or the B1G, basically whoever asks first. It would be nice to see them fight over us, but that's delusional.

I don't believe getting into another BCS conference is a sure thing. But I kind of trust the President to get something done.

2. We don't get invited to join either of the above, we stay with what's leftover in the BE and the conference reloads with more CUSA. I refuse to identify those schools individually, even possible candidates from the MWC will be referred to as "CUSA". We soldier on and try to keep the BCS bid past 2014 or whatever.

3. If the Texas four depart the BIG 12, then the leftovers from the Big East that play football make a coalition and join what's left of the Big 12 and continue with their BCS bid. This new football conference would at least be as good or bad as the Big East is currently, and it wouldn't be too shabby at Basketball either.

I kind of favor this outcome to #2 for obvious reasons. We're done with Providence, probably forever and we are in conference that isn't a collection of mismatched socks. The true source of instability has been the Big East management and basketball schools. The Villanova issue, the initial resistance to adding TCU all showed that this conference had two parts that were going to be irreconcilable in the long run.

I kind of toyed around with the idea of going Indy. But I can't work out how we would ever get a bowl tie in. It would also cripple both of our basketball programs.

Either way, we need out of the Big East. Forget the status quo, it doesn't exist anymore.

 

[businesslawyer]

Going forward, it's hard to determine what might happen because there are alot of possible outcomes.

1. The most desired one of course; we get accepted into either the ACC or the B1G, basically whoever asks first. It would be nice to see them fight over us, but that's delusional.

I don't believe getting into another BCS conference is a sure thing. But I kind of trust the President to get something done.

2. We don't get invited to join either of the above, we stay with what's leftover in the BE and the conference reloads with more CUSA. I refuse to identify those schools individually, even possible candidates from the MWC will be referred to as "CUSA". We soldier on and try to keep the BCS bid past 2014 or whatever.

3. If the Texas four depart the BIG 12, then the leftovers from the Big East that play football make a coalition and join what's left of the Big 12 and continue with their BCS bid. This new football conference would at least be as good or bad as the Big East is currently, and it wouldn't be too shabby at Basketball either.

I kind of favor this outcome to #2 for obvious reasons. We're done with Providence, probably forever and we are in conference that isn't a collection of mismatched socks. The true source of instability has been the Big East management and basketball schools. The Villanova issue, the initial resistance to adding TCU all showed that this conference had two parts that were going to be irreconcilable in the long run.

I kind of toyed around with the idea of going Indy. But I can't work out how we would ever get a bowl tie in. It would also cripple both of our basketball programs.

Either way, we need out of the Big East. Forget the status quo, it doesn't exist anymore.

If we learn anything from this, we need to learn that our instability was caused by an utter lack of market power in football compared to other conferences. The only thing that gives anyone more long term stability is the ability to generate more revenue from its fan base and more eyeballs on sets nationwide. Nothing would have been different this week if the Big East football schools had split off a year or two ago.

 

[ZooCougar]

If we learn anything from this, we need to learn that our instability was caused by an utter lack of market power in football compared to other conferences. The only thing that gives anyone more long term stability is the ability to generate more revenue from its fan base and more eyeballs on sets nationwide. Nothing would have been different this week if the Big East football schools had split off a year or two ago.

We haven't had market power since Tranghese lost the first round 7-8 years ago. Since then we made ourselves into two sided 16 team behemoth that can't agree on anything. The basketball schools want the benefit of association with us, without the risk and they didn't want anything to tilt in the football school's favor.

Basically they wanted equal say. Which they should have never been given. They never had as much to lose as we did. We have had two commissioners who basically did what they could to shape things in their favor. By not leaning in favor of the football schools, they basically leaned towards the hoop schools.

Really, what would the hoop schools do in retaliation? Leave? Oh please. Not thaaaaaaat. Are DePaul and Marquette really going to haul ass back to CUSA? Hopefully.

So yeah. Bad market power is part of it. Being dysfunctional didn't help either. Some people actually believed that Penn State might want to leave the Big 10 to join this drawer full of mismatched socks. Same goes for Maryland. What were they thinking?

 

[gars44]

We haven't had market power since Tranghese lost the first round 7-8 years ago. Since then we made ourselves into two sided 16 team behemoth that can't agree on anything. The basketball schools want the benefit of association with us, without the risk and they didn't want anything to tilt in the football school's favor.

Basically they wanted equal say. Which they should have never been given. They never had as much to lose as we did. We have had two commissioners who basically did what they could to shape things in their favor. By not leaning in favor of the football schools, they basically leaned towards the hoop schools.

Really, what would the hoop schools do in retaliation? Leave? Oh please. Not thaaaaaaat. Are DePaul and Marquette really going to haul ass back to CUSA? Hopefully.

So yeah. Bad market power is part of it. Being dysfunctional didn't help either. Some people actually believed that Penn State might want to leave the Big 10 to join this drawer full of mismatched socks. Same goes for Maryland. What were they thinking?

I don't think any but the young kids on this board ever seriously considered PSU or MD or BC back to the BE.

 

[ZooCougar]

I don't think any but the young kids on this board ever seriously considered PSU or MD or BC back to the BE.

The Maryland possibility was discussed openly in the New York Post/Daily News and other outlets. There was an article not too long ago the BE looking at BC, Maryland and Penn State in the BE.

I wasn't referring to this board but the world at large.

 

[dtrumpet]

IF football is really driving this realignment, its hard to see how WVU doesn't get into the ACC and it either UCONN/Louisville/Rutgers for the other spot. I don't see the ACC going bigger than 16 teams. Though having said that, if UC gets into the ACC its a college hoops fan's dream conference.
many years ago, Lew Perkins said if we're not in D1 football, there will be trouble. His prediction has proven more correct every year.

 

[TouchdownHusky]

I'd be happy with either ACC or Big Ten.

I think the ACC makes more sense but as a Midwest guy I'd love to go to the Big Ten.

Either way we are ok. Anything else sucks.

Agreed. And, I hope that once and for all people stop the BS about "my preference is for things to stay the way they are". Big East football was a very loose configuration of programs that were thrown into a basketball conference (that became oversized), some who remained after the good schools (Miami & VT were cherrypicked), others who never quite had a home (CINCY, Louisville, USF) and the newbiea (UConn
& possibly Villanova). The BE was going out sooner or later, Dead conference walking.

 

[Carl Spackler]

There's an interesting read on espn.com in the pay area (insider) regarding the events of 1982, and Penn State's (Joe Paterno's) brain child and desire to get an all sports eastern United States, division 1-A conference together by joining forces withe newly formed big east and including the football programs of schools like Syracuse and Boston College, among others. If you've paid attention to anything I wrote in the offseason, you know the background. Very interesting how the dominoes have been falling since that time when the Big East turned down Penn State. 30 years ago now. No need to rehash now. I'm pretty sure John Toner was blindsided by that move though, well before reality TV voting.

Joe Paterno's brainchild of an eastern intercollegiate athletic conference competing in all sports, is very close to fruition, 30 years later, and very likely, Penn State won't be part of it. Kind of sad.

Ms. Herbst earns the big bucks. It's her job to make sure that when it happens, however it happens, we're part of it, and don't get blindsided again. I like Pendergast, but I'm not sure if he's got the connections to pull, now that Syracuse and Pitt have pulled the string to open up the pinata.

But I do know that he's on the job officially today, and there's really nothing else he needs to be concerned about right now than making sure were part of a northern/eastern all sports conference playing football at teh top level.

Not many folks, especially the younger ones, realize that until the 1-AA, 1-A division in the late 70s and the mid 80s, and then the SMU death penalty and what it did to the southwest conference - many, most of the best football schools were independant and scheduled independantly and bowl games - well what a mess college football has been forever when it came to figuring out who is the best in the land every year.

In the 80s, the concept of independance, except for Notre Dame which managed to get NBC funding pretty much forever, went away quick.

The bottom line right now, is that it's going to happen, the writing was on the wall when Friar Tuck backed out on the ESPN talks and then started talking about being in a position of power with billion dollar broadcasting industry that was sitting on a bubble ready to burst. The money has to come from somewhere, and contrary to popular belief, being last in line to negotiate, was the worst possible scenario. Cheaper for the industry for the breakup of the big east. All they had to do was sit back and wait, no collusion necessary.

what the big east proved, was that 16 team model can work if you've got market power and post season earning potential in the major money making sports.

I'm confident that we will be part of it - whether it be a northern/eastern division of a 16 team conference, or after all of this seismic movement ends - as an individual conference somehow, although I can't even begin to speculate as to how that would play out, nothing is out of reach at this point.

UConn is a big time player in the academic and athletic collegiate landscape, and we bring the northeastern NYC - Boston corridor in the broadcasting market.

What I think will eventually happen is that there will be some kind of uniformity to intercollegiate conferences playing football at the top division - whatever it end up being called, and there will finally be a post season playoff to determine a champion.

 

[ed2253]

Big 10 actiing too slowly...this is what happens
Big East acting Wayyyy too slowly, inviting Nova??? come on...
always fealt ACC is perfect for us...just never thought this would come to fruition...need to go now...otherwise we are playing TCU baylor and Iowa state every year...no rivalry whatsoever...