The View From Section 241 -- Realignment

[jpm25]

The ACC wants UConn above SU and Pitt. However, I believe that UConn would not abandon the BE without pressure or coercion. In order to pressure UConn, SU and Pitt are taken first. Sure the ACC would love TX and ND but this is unlikely to occur. TX would be the only school out of time zone with no traditional ACC opponents plus the weight of the Longhorn Network. ACC treats all of its schools equally else Duke can't support itself in FB and probably not WF either. ND has no ACC traditional opponents, I think it's in the Central Time Zone (?) and I can't imagine they want games against WF, Clemson and FSU on even a semi-regular basis. I think ACC is 70% likely, 20% for B10 and 10% for the dreaded hybrid with the B12 lefties. We'll see.

Do you believe that because you are a UConn fan, or because you objectivley believe it?

South Bend is in the eastern time zone, and they have traditional rivalries with BCU and Pitt.

 

[uc1974]

I believe it objectively. I believe that Herbst is on top of the situation and has been for some time. You are, of course, correct about Pitt/BC and ND. I guess I was more focused on the schools ND would probably dislike playing. No conference would turn down ND. However, I don't think ND's eyes are in the Southeast and I can't believe ND wants to give up its Midwest roots, MSU, Michigan, NW, Purdue, USC/Stanford (West I know) and Navy (I know, East). We do not have idiots running the show in Storrs. Not now.

 

[jpm25]

I believe it objectively. I believe that Herbst is on top of the situation and has been for some time. You are, of course, correct about Pitt/BC and ND. I guess I was more focused on the schools ND would probably dislike playing. No conference would turn down ND. However, I don't think ND's eyes are in the Southeast and I can't believe ND wants to give up its Midwest roots, MSU, Michigan, NW, Purdue, USC/Stanford (West I know) and Navy (I know, East). We do not have idiots running the show in Storrs. Not now.

I agree with you. I think ND can use OC scheduling to keep USC, Stanford, Navy, BCU and Pitt games going, if not all on an annual basis, at least keep the first three that way. No conference would turn down ND, but if you are ND and picking your lot, I think you have to go B1G.

 

[Vowelguy]

I am not buying #2 for one big reason. I think the Big10 would have preferred Rutgers and UConn over Syracuse and Pitt. The B10 network is prime tier in Western Pa. Syracuse is upstate and its value (in my eyes) is questionable, especially in a largely state-school conference.

The only thing that makes #2 a possibility is that the ACC thought it was outflanking the Big10 because Swofford considers himself a genius. But it's just as likely he outsmarted himself should the Big10 move east.

I think you're both overlooking simpler reasons:

(1) After watering down BB in the last expansion, there was no way the ACC was going to do that again. I doubt RU was high on their list. Syr & Pitt make them much stronger, and the Big East weaker.

(2) One UConn obstacle: BC. I'm sure they were pushing much harder for Pitt & Syr.

(3) If you want to be more sinister, this comes closer to finishing the job they started nearly a decade ago. Replacing Rutgers in the BE is much easier -- there are lots of crappy BB schools with a FB team. There are far fewer good BB schools w/ FB. The BE's next step is far from clear.

 

[jpm25]

I just can't belive that BCU is an obstacle for UConn. They may hate us, but they need us. And to be honest, we kind of need them.

 

[tzznandrew]

Agreed, its just to petty and the key UConn adversaries are all gone.

Plus, what clout does BC even have? If the ACC wants the northeast, they must know that by now BC alone won't deliver it. Even adding Syracuse in by themselves won't be enough.

 

[upstater]

I think you're both overlooking simpler reasons:

(1) After watering down BB in the last expansion, there was no way the ACC was going to do that again. I doubt RU was high on their list. Syr & Pitt make them much stronger, and the Big East weaker.

(2) One UConn obstacle: BC. I'm sure they were pushing much harder for Pitt & Syr.

(3) If you want to be more sinister, this comes closer to finishing the job they started nearly a decade ago. Replacing Rutgers in the BE is much easier -- there are lots of crappy BB schools with a FB team. There are far fewer good BB schools w/ FB. The BE's next step is far from clear.

That may be. I was just kicking around the idea that there is some flanking going on. As I said in my original post, Pitt is the big prize--for the ACC.

 

[jpm25]

That may be. I was just kicking around the idea that there is some flanking going on. As I said in my original post, Pitt is the big prize--for the ACC.

Pitt cannot be the "big prize".

 

[SAMCRO]

(2) One UConn obstacle: BC. I'm sure they were pushing much harder for Pitt & Syr.

The ACC doesn't ask BC for their opinion, the ACC tells BC what their opinion is. If the bigs in the ACC want UConn then BC will get in line. Simple as that.

 

[Vowelguy]

I just can't belive that BCU is an obstacle for UConn. They may hate us, but they need us.

For what?

Things were a lot better for BC when UConn was an athletics backwater. I'm sure they'd love for that to happen again.

 

[Vowelguy]

The ACC doesn't ask BC for their opinion, the ACC tells BC what their opinion is. If the bigs in the ACC want UConn then BC will get in line. Simple as that.

You're assuming the decision is clear cut.
If instead everyone is one the fence for whom to add, I'm sure they could be swayed by intense BC lobbying.

 

[tzznandrew]

You're assuming the decision is clear cut.
If instead everyone is one the fence for whom to add, I'm sure they could be swayed by intense BC lobbying.

It feels to me that the ACC just doubled down on the NE Corridor. UConn competes or beats Syracuse and BC there (depending, exactly, on the region). It would make the most logical sense.

 

[jpm25]

For what?

Things were a lot better for BC when UConn was an athletics backwater. I'm sure they'd love for that to happen again.

For what? To be relevant. BCU is on an island - they have not geographic, cultural or historal cohesion with the rest of the conference. Do you think that Michigan wants OSU to suck? Do you think Texas wants OU to suck? As a UConn fan, do you want to be the only school in the region that is good and growing? Do you want kids around Boston to grow up wanting to play football or soccer?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I just can't belive that BCU is an obstacle for UConn. They may hate us, but they need us. And to be honest, we kind of need them.

BCU is not an obstacle and for the record, the three ACC members with the most conference clout (UNC, UVA & Duke) all prefer UConn to any other possible candidate (including the two who were just added). Our not being part of the first phase of expansion wasn't due to any ACC members preventing us from being part of their conference.

 

[John Greene]

Alabama is not ACC centric but there are a goodly number of NC, Duke and GTech people around here. For what its worth I have heard twice in the last 36 hours that Uconn was one of the 10 that approached the ACC, but, there were questions about the "stability and structure" of the athletic department. Specifically the influence of Jim Calhoun on the AD change and departure of Edsell. I Can't imagine that RE would have many nice thing to say about JC if asked.

 

[jpm25]

Alabama is not ACC centric but there are a goodly number of NC, Duke and GTech people around here. For what its worth I have heard twice in the last 36 hours that Uconn was one of the 10 that approached the ACC, but, there were questions about the "stability and structure" of the athletic department. Specifically the influence of Jim Calhoun on the AD change and departure of Edsell. I Can't imagine that RE would have many nice thing to say about JC if asked.

1. who would ask Edsall about Calhoun?
2. what conference would make a decsion about a school based on a coach that has only a few years left in the tank?
3. what conference would make a decision about a coach period? These are, presumably "100 year" decisions
4. what conference would not want Jim Calhoun, a HOF coach and 3x National Champion?

 

[HuskyFan16]

4. what conference would not want Jim Calhoun, a HOF coach and 3x National Champion?

So far... all of them.

 

[jpm25]

So far... all of them.

I'm assuming that this is not a single criteria. This was in response to the suggestion that somehow a step in expansion would be to call Randy Edsall and get his sign-off on Jim Calhoun.

 

[Vowelguy]

For what? To be relevant. BCU is on an island - they have not geographic, cultural or historal cohesion with the rest of the conference.

They get their regional rival with Syracuse.
BC is <2-hr flight to most of the conference. Any school in the Pac-10 would kill for that. Texas Tech would kill for that. Miami would too.

Do you think that Michigan wants OSU to suck?

Yes.

Do you think Texas wants OU to suck?

Yes.

 

[tzznandrew]

The fans, but not the schools.

 

[jpm25]

They get their regional rival with Syracuse.
BC is <2-hr flight to most of the conference. Any school in the Pac-10 would kill for that. Texas Tech would kill for that. Miami would too.

Yes.

Yes.

I disagree on all three. Fans want rivals to suck. Guys that program TV content do not. Administrators do not. The Pac12 has a "Noah's Ark" model (their term, not mine). They won't add a school without a natural rival. See: USC/UCLA, UA/ASU, Cal/Stanford, UW/WSU, UO/OSU, CU/UU

 

[SAMCRO]

You're assuming the decision is clear cut.
If instead everyone is one the fence for whom to add, I'm sure they could be swayed by intense BC lobbying.

I was assuming the decision was clear cut, right up until I read the ESPN.com write up that UConn was lobbing the ACC. After reading that, I don't feel as good as I had been. Will be interesting fo sho

 

[UConn9604]

BCU is not an obstacle and for the record, the three ACC members with the most conference clout (UNC, UVA & Duke) all prefer UConn to any other possible candidate (including the two who were just added). Our not being part of the first phase of expansion wasn't due to any ACC members preventing us from being part of their conference.

I agree with all of what you're saying, but that's my opinion -- do you have any links, or at least substantiation, to back this up? I would love to see that in print somewhere. Thanks.

 

[uconnbill]

Not so sure about the whole comment about Edsall and Calhoun. They have always gotten along from all I have heard.

Calhoun deserves say with all he has done at UConn. I know football runs the ship but basketball played a very important part of UConn football getting where they are today. Without Calhoun and Perkins. I believe UConn would be a Villanova or St. John's football wise.

Alabama is not ACC centric but there are a goodly number of NC, Duke and GTech people around here. For what its worth I have heard twice in the last 36 hours that Uconn was one of the 10 that approached the ACC, but, there were questions about the "stability and structure" of the athletic department. Specifically the influence of Jim Calhoun on the AD change and departure of Edsell. I Can't imagine that RE would have many nice thing to say about JC if asked.

 

[tzznandrew]

Not so sure about the whole comment about Edsall and Calhoun. They have always gotten along from all I have heard.

Calhoun deserves say with all he has done at UConn. I know football runs the ship but basketball played a very important part of UConn football getting where they are today. Without Calhoun and Perkins. I believe UConn would be a Villanova or St. John's football wise.

What would he say? If he suggests that we shouldn't join the ACC, he's crazy, and it's too short-term.