The View From Section 241 -- Realignment | The Boneyard

The View From Section 241 -- Realignment

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I just typed a brilliant post on both ISU and realignment, but it was too long to post and I screwed up saving it so now I have to start again. I'm going to talk about realignment for a moment, because it seems unavoidable (and more important than any one game) and will try to get to my 241 column tonight.

What happened? In a nutshell, Swofford won by following Coach Brown's mantra -- solve your problems with aggression. The ACC was destined to be the 4th best FB conference, by a wide margin behind the other 3, because it was going to see which 16 the other leagues got and then take what was left up and down the east coast. Instead, by doing this he has now taken control I am sure he has now gone to ND and Texas and say you have this much time, and then we're giving up and going to UConn and RU and we are no longer an option for you (or leverage in your negotiations with others). He will not take them if they don't bring in their football programs, though he might give them a different TV deal, and more flexibility than the other conferences would. If they say yes, he's on a level with the other conferences in football. If no, he's made preemptive moves in the northeast before the Big Ten got to it. He stays competitive in the northeast forever. He has the dominant hoops conference. And, his conference is strong enogh, and makes enough geographic sense, that schools may not be in a hurry to leave if the SEC or Big Ten comes calling. It was a brilliant move -- it really was.

What does this mean for UConn? Hopefully, Texas and ND say no and we join a 16 team ACC that, while not my first choice (I'd prefer the status quo) might be the best we could have hoped for. If Texas and ND join the ACC, the Big Ten has to add RU and UConn or risk losing its current place in the NYC market forever. If neither happens, we have to pray the Big East adds the Big XII remnants. BEcause options beyond that get real ugly real fast. It's likely this is going to work out, but it is far from guaranteed. This is going to be very trying waiting for the news.

A few other points:

1. Why Pitt instead of UConn? If you ask which is better for the ACC going forward, I can't see a good reason (which I think is why JUrisch was so surprised). But, if you look at forcing other hands, this was the right move. Pitt was higher on the Big Ten's list than UConn, largely for geographic reasons and AAU affiliation, so this presses the Big Ten's hand much more. One more possibility, which I am just speculating on but wouldn't surprise me. Calhoun might have said we're not bailing while Dave Gavitt is on his deathbed. And Calhoun might have had the juice, earned, to make that happen.

2. Is ESPN behind this. I am reluctant to accuse them of serious antitrust violations, and possibly breaching contrctual duties of good faith an fair dealing, without any evidence whatsoever. But I will say this -- a lot of what is happening is much more easily explained by ESPN trying to protect it's near monopoly than it is by asking what the universities are getting out of this.

3. Could NOrdenberg have violated a fiduciary duty to the Big East or its members by doing this? It's possible. It totally depends on facts. Is that a criminal violation? No, of course not. No idea where Waylon gets this stuff from.

4. Is there any reason to blame Herbst, or Hathaway, or anyone else at UConn? No. The ACC, and every other conference, knows what each school brings. There is no reason to think everyone at UConn isn't doing what they can nor that the decision is likely to be made based on the realities of the situation -- not which officer makes the best phone calls.

5. Is this Providence's fault? No. You can't make members stay. Do you want Providence empowered to make us stay?

6. Would Syracuse and Pitt only do this if they knew RU, WVU and UConn would come out of this o.k.? You're kidding, right?

I've been so long typing my lost post and this that everything could be different by now. WE'll see.

I will try to do my normal 241 tonight, but I'm out of time for now and thought this would be more interesting. Have a good day all.
 

junglehusky

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Everything you say is logical. But you left out the fact that Marinatto is fat, which overrules everything. :)
 
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4. I'm not convinced that the ACC and Swofford are good analysts in terms of who to invite. I agree on all the other points. It's not Pitt that I'm questioning (I think they were always considered the best of the BE), it's Cuse. I know they were invited in 2004, but that was on par with inviting BC, which hasn't been a good invite.
 

whaler11

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Throw in the increased ACC exit fee and once he gets to 16, it would take a HELL of a deal for anyone to leave.
 
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Status Quo, is what Marinatto wanted too. It is not providence's fault per se, but that office has been caught off guard so often it is down right laughable. I really believe Marinate thought Swofford was truthful and took him at his word when the ACC put out a press release saying the weren't looking to expand. Providence had no pulse on their own members. When SU bolts and they don't even have an inkling that it is coming, that says everything you need to know about Providence.
 
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Status Quo, is what Marinatto wanted too. It is not providence's fault per se, but that office has been caught off guard so often it is down right laughable. I really believe Marinate thought Swofford was truthful and took him at his word when the ACC put out a press release saying the weren't looking to expand. Providence had no pulse on their own members. When SU bolts and they don't even have an inkling that it is coming, that says everything you need to know about Providence.

I REFUSE to believe Marinatto was out of the loop. This story reeks of him being clueless at noon at the WV game.

Marinatto just doesn't care, and neither do the basketball schools. "I didn't know" makes him look like an idiot, butt hat's what's required by Providence.
 

epark88

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I REFUSE to believe Marinatto was out of the loop. This story reeks of him being clueless at noon at the WV game.

Marinatto just doesn't care, and neither do the basketball schools. "I didn't know" makes him look like an idiot, butt hat's what's required by Providence.

Freudian-Slip Hall of Fame nomination!...
 
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Ironic, my boss often learns that my brilliance forgets to be saved.
 
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4. I'm not convinced that the ACC and Swofford are good analysts in terms of who to invite. I agree on all the other points. It's not Pitt that I'm questioning (I think they were always considered the best of the BE), it's Cuse. I know they were invited in 2004, but that was on par with inviting BC, which hasn't been a good invite.
BC wasn't a good invite as an outlier, separated by 350 miles from their nearest conference mate, but I think SU makes sense concurrent with the Pitt addition and logically RU and Uconn next. Pitt and SU are flanking moves, cutting off the B10 and then cementing the northeast with Uconn and Rutgers. If the additions were reversed, the ACC risked B10 jumping on Pitt and the ACC plans fall apart. Now, instead of BC and SU being northeast stepchildren in a southern conference, they become part of a true east coast conference, geographically congruent (I still think that is important) and with natural rivalries.
 

FfldCntyFan

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I just typed a brilliant post on both ISU and realignment, but it was too long to post and I screwed up saving it so now I have to start again.
Typical lawyer speak: "Yes, it was brilliant! I can't prove it but trust me." ;)
 
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Pretty likely the Catholics/hoops only are sick of going along for the ride and may be saying enough on the threats as well. SJU in now the only game in town for NYC/MSG, that's not trivial.
 
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Pretty likely the Catholics/hoops only are sick of going along for the ride and may be saying enough on the threats as well. SJU in now the only game in town for NYC/MSG, that's not trivial.
Sorry, not even a consideration, unfortunately. In this current landscape, they are as relevant as Villanova in Philly. Basketball has little to do with this, and non D1 football schools even less
 
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BC wasn't a good invite as an outlier, separated by 350 miles from their nearest conference mate, but I think SU makes sense concurrent with the Pitt addition and logically RU and Uconn next. Pitt and SU are flanking moves, cutting off the B10 and then cementing the northeast with Uconn and Rutgers. If the additions were reversed, the ACC risked B10 jumping on Pitt and the ACC plans fall apart. Now, instead of BC and SU being northeast stepchildren in a southern conference, they become part of a true east coast conference, geographically congruent (I still think that is important) and with natural rivalries.

1. Miami was calling the shots in '04, not the ACC office. It was Miami that wanted BC and Syracuse, which were the northeastern private schools.

2. Flanking moves is eaxactly right. Take UConn and RU first, the Big Ten immediately graps Syracuse and Pitt. Take Syracuse and Pitt first, and the Big Ten's options are much more limited.
 

TRest

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Biz, any opinion on the idea that Pitt and SU went first to pave the way for UConn to abandon ship and save face? In conjunction with JC wanting to wait in respect to Dave Gavitt, it may make some sense (if we in fact apply to the ACC after Monday).
 
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Biz, any opinion on the idea that Pitt and SU went first to pave the way Conn to abandon ship and save face? In conjunction with JC wanting to wait in respect to Dave Gavitt, it may make some sense (if we in fact apply to the ACC after Monday).


Exactly what I stated. Pitt and Syracuse wouldn't bend down to pick up a piece of gum that UConn was about to step in. It may have that effect, but Pitt and SU moved first because they had the opportunity -- not for UCOnn
 
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I'd rather see us on the big 10. Better conference by far. Perhaps this gives us options. As I posted previously the CT market is one of the top 35 media markets in the country, so we bring a lot in terms of ad revenue which is ultimately all football has become. Kind of sad.
 
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Pitt and SU's actions were self serving and not for "the greater good", and I don't blame them one bit. Their first priority is the welfare of their school. They acted as such. It's a dog eat dog "business" and right now the remaining big east schools are wearing milk bone underwear. UConn will be fine when it's all said and done, just need to deal w/ the anxiety/unknown for the time being. Conference realignment is FAR from over.
 
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Big question is does the crummy ACC/ESPN 12 year TV contract stay on? How can ESPN offer to renegotiate? Does Pitt and SU now get just $10m a year from TV revenue (I think thats the number).

Many people posted why would any team go to ACC when there are locked into such a off market tv contract for TWELVE YEARS.
 
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Big question is does the crummy ACC/ESPN 12 year TV contract stay on? How can ESPN offer to renegotiate? Does Pitt and SU now get just $10m a year from TV revenue (I think thats the number).

Many people posted why would any team go to ACC when there are locked into such a off market tv contract for TWELVE YEARS.
Well, there has been a lot of talk that ESPN is at least peripherally involved in all this if not moreso. Some have gone so far to intimate that ESPN is orchestrating this to prevent Comcast from cutting into their monopoly. If any of that is true, then you have to assume a promise of renegotiation has been "communicated" behind the scenes.
 
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Well, there has been a lot of talk that ESPN is at least peripherally involved in all this if not moreso. Some have gone so far to intimate that ESPN is orchestrating this to prevent Comcast from cutting into their monopoly. If any of that is true, then you have to assume a promise of renegotiation has been "communicated" behind the scenes.

If this could ever be proved then when its all said and done then the courts should transfer ownership of ESPN to the BE. But, as the saying goes on this board, I have a better chance sleeping with a super model tonight.
 
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you have been so wrong on the expansion topic for so long. The path forward you paint seems logical and a lot of regurgitation from press reports for the last 48 hours - big departure from past posts.
 

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Well, there has been a lot of talk that ESPN is at least peripherally involved in all this if not moreso. Some have gone so far to intimate that ESPN is orchestrating this to prevent Comcast from cutting into their monopoly. If any of that is true, then you have to assume a promise of renegotiation has been "communicated" behind the scenes.
There is the idea, that I've seen posted either here or on the NCAABBS board, that ESPN would rather do a new contract with the ACC and some new members than have to pony up with the BE in 2012.
 
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Exactly what I stated. Pitt and Syracuse wouldn't bend down to pick up a piece of gum that UConn was about to step in. It may have that effect, but Pitt and SU moved first because they had the opportunity -- not for UCOnn

Simply not true. The whole is far greater than the sum of it's parts here. There may have been colusion or Pitt and SU may have done this simply to force UConn's hand. But either way Pitt and SU were not going to do this w/out UConn and RU. If UConn/RU end up in the Big 10 it's bad for Pitt/SU/BC. Even if we combine with the Big 12 it still damages them in the region. You don't want BCS programs from other conferences in your back yard.

Pitt and SU want UConn and RU in the ACC and this is how they got it done.
 
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you have been so wrong on the expansion topic for so long. The path forward you paint seems logical and a lot of regurgitation from press reports for the last 48 hours - big departure from past posts.
which one of us are you accusing of regurgitation? Cuz ya know, so much on these boards are original thoughts and groundbreaking ideas i'd hate to not be worthy of posting. ;) , lol.
 
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