The Official 2023 New England Patriots Thread | Page 7 | The Boneyard

The Official 2023 New England Patriots Thread

Husky25 said:
Which two? For one, I don't think Caleb Williams is a generational talent on the "Suck for Luck" level). Secondly, in a few mocks I've seen over the last few days have Drake Maye going 1st and a few others have Williams as low as #6. OTOH, it could be some writer(s) putting out fluff for the sake of argument.
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Williams and Maye are both said to go in the top 3. Williams was definitely going #1 until his mid season slump. I still think he has a ton of talent... reminiscent of Mahomes...but something happened mid season and he looked like a different guy. Not sure what it was... injury...off field distractions... coaching. But he was a different guy.

I wouldn't be surprised if scouts fell in love with him again and he went top 3. I don't think either are a lock to succeed. I think Trevor Lawrence was the last one that was a lock...and Luck before him.
 
ShakyTheMohel said:
Williams and Maye are both said to go in the top 3. Williams was definitely going #1 until his mid season slump. I still think he has a ton of talent... reminiscent of Mahomes...but something happened mid season and he looked like a different guy. Not sure what it was... injury...off field distractions... coaching. But he was a different guy.

I wouldn't be surprised if scouts fell in love with him again and he went top 3. I don't think either are a lock to succeed. I think Trevor Lawrence was the last one that was a lock...and Luck before him.
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I would add Burrow in between Trevor and Luck.

Agree neither is a lock, but you have to roll the dice on it
 
How can your best game from the QB position come from a guy you cut that same year?
 
HeGotGame said:
I would add Burrow in between Trevor and Luck.

Agree neither is a lock, but you have to roll the dice on it
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The only thing that was weird about Burrow was that it was just one year. One amazing year..but just one year. Some were wondering if it was Brady...but Burrow was pretty amazing in that year. I still don't remember him having "sure thing" hype, but he has been an amazing pro. Seems to be injury prone...but amazing.
 
Husky25 said:
Which two? For one, I don't think Caleb Williams is a generational talent on the "Suck for Luck" level). Secondly, in a few mocks I've seen over the last few days have Drake Maye going 1st and a few others have Williams as low as #6. OTOH, it could be some writer(s) putting out fluff for the sake of argument.
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Williams and Maye have been the clear top two. Usually in that order. I agree things may have changed. Neither guy was amazing, while Penix, Nix and Daniels pretty much were. So I think any of those five might be a strong starting NFL QB. All five could flop. Assuming the Pats can grab one of them later in the 1st or early 2nd, I would draft Harrison.

Combines, workouts, interviews could change everything.
 
ShakyTheMohel said:
I still believe tanking for a QB doesn't make sense because it's impossible to evaluate college quarterbacks... except for generational talent. I would actually tank for Harrison Jr before the two QBs.

But...you do know the Pats will have at least one more win with the Jets game? So....the Pats will struggle to stay in P2.

I am not saying the Jets will draft higher....they will find a way to play like crap yet still win a game they shouldn't just so they won't be in position to draft an impact player...lol.
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If I’m the Bears and I have picks 1 and 3 I’m taking Marvin Harrison jr, then I’m taking Jayden Daniels.
 
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HuskyHawk said:
Williams and Maye have been the clear top two. Usually in that order. I agree things may have changed. Neither guy was amazing, while Penix, Nix and Daniels pretty much were. So I think any of those five might be a strong starting NFL QB. All five could flop. Assuming the Pats can grab one of them later in the 1st or early 2nd, I would draft Harrison.

Combines, workouts, interviews could change everything.
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They could change everything but mean nothing.

Sorry...I am still bitter that after combines, workouts, and interviews, the Jets selected basically Jamarcus Russell. Meanwhile...last year in the 7th round the 49ers selected the 2023 MVP candidate.

Yes...very bitter...lol.
 
Bears and Jets both win. Carolina loses. Cardinals are the only competition for the 2nd pick and the 3rd pick seems pretty safe.
 
The end of the worst season in a long, long time. Jets win streak finally ends. Was this Bill’s last game in New England? I really hope not, but there’s no way he can stay and still have the same control he has now. The stories about scouting department not using analytics just make me think of Moneyball. Need some offensive minds on the staff, and in the personnel department along with an entire analytics team (like every other team in the NFL).

If Bill is gone, I do not want Vrabel. I’m not sure the Lions OC Ben Johnson is ready, but they’d interview him along with Mayo.

The loss does lock up the #3 pick, could be #2 if Washington wins. So that will land a QB or Harrison.
 
HuskyHawk said:
The end of the worst season in a long, long time. Jets win streak finally ends. Was this Bill’s last game in New England? I really hope not, but there’s no way he can stay and still have the same control he has now. The stories about scouting department not using analytics just make me think of Moneyball. Need some offensive minds on the staff, and in the personnel department along with an entire analytics team (like every other team in the NFL).

If Bill is gone, I do not want Vrabel. I’m not sure the Lions OC Ben Johnson is ready, but they’d interview him along with Mayo.

The loss does lock up the #3 pick, could be #2 if Washington wins. So that will land a QB or Harrison.
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I've been a huge BB fan. But I really hope he doesn't come back. (I'd be for him coming back with vastly less control, but I can't see any path to that happening.)

I hear you on not wanting Vrabel.

Pretty dismal end to another dismal season. But I've been a fan since Grogan was a star - this won't be the first time they've been in the gutter and crawled back out.
 
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87Xfer said:
I've been a huge BB fan. But I really hope he doesn't come back. (I'd be for him coming back with vastly less control, but I can't see any path to that happening.)

I hear you on not wanting Vrabel.

Pretty dismal end to another dismal season. But I've been a fan since Grogan was a star - this won't be the first time they've been in the gutter and crawled back out.
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Agreed and I go back to the 70s too. We had a run unlike any other pro franchise has had. It couldn’t last forever. I actually think they are close to being good again very quickly.
 
So the early mock drafts out today all seem to have the Patriots drafting Daniels at #3. I'm not convinced (a) that Caleb Williams will go #1 and (b) that if it is Williams - Maye - ? that the Patriots won't take Harrison. He's the most sure thing in the draft, at the position the Patriots have struggled with the most.
 
HuskyHawk said:
So the early mock drafts out today all seem to have the Patriots drafting Daniels at #3. I'm not convinced (a) that Caleb Williams will go #1 and (b) that if it is Williams - Maye - ? that the Patriots won't take Harrison. He's the most sure thing in the draft, at the position the Patriots have struggled with the most.
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I guess it depends who the GM is. Patriots need to figure out BB's role quicklu
 
ShakyTheMohel said:
I guess it depends who the GM is. Patriots need to figure out BB's role quicklu
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Multiple reports that he is willing to relinquish some control over personnel. He said it in the press conference. That's a huge development, because if he wasn't your coach and you were looking for the best available coach - he'd clearly be the best available coach. The issues are almost all on the GM/Personnel side, and even there, just on the offensive side of the ball. He does a great job evaluating and drafting defensive players. So I'm hoping we end up with what I predicted. More brainpower (like we had with Caserio) making decisions, especially on offense, and Bill remains coach.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Agreed and I go back to the 70s too. We had a run unlike any other pro franchise has had. It couldn’t last forever. I actually think they are close to being good again very quickly.
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Seriously? I go back to Joe Kapp and I don't think they'll be good again in my lifetime. The only hope is if the Krafts sell and that's not happening.
 
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Waquoit said:
Seriously? I go back to Joe Kapp and I don't think they'll be good again in my lifetime. The only hope is if the Krafts sell and that's not happening.
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Pretty much all franchises go through ups and downs. The Steelers (since 1970), and Ravens (including the pre-expansion Browns) are probably the most consistent.

The 49ers made the playoffs 5 times from 1946 to 1980, before winning the Super Bowl after the 1981 Season. A then-unprecedented 18 years of success (16 Playoff appearances and 4 Super Bowls victories) ensued until Steve Young retired. The 49ers are currently on the up, but they have ebbed as well, just like every other franchise, and have qualified for the playoffs only nine times in the last 24 seasons.

The Patriots will be back, Neither Bob, nor Jonathan Kraft are Victor Kiam, Sam Orthwein, or The Sullivan Family. They built an empire, with the football franchise at the center and showed 31 others how to as well.
 
Hmm. Interesting turn of events...

 
Husky25 said:
Hmm. Interesting turn of events...

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I don't want him. Of all the options he's the guy I don't want. More smash mouth football. He's the poor man's version of Bill. I liked him as a player, but if you are moving on then you need to move on.

The team has a huge amount of cap space, a fantastic defensive foundation and a few pieces on offense if they re-sign Onwenu & Bourne and Andrews doesn't retire.
 
HuskyHawk said:
I don't want him. Of all the options he's the guy I don't want. More smash mouth football. He's the poor man's version of Bill. I liked him as a player, but if you are moving on then you need to move on.

The team has a huge amount of cap space, a fantastic defensive foundation and a few pieces on offense if they re-sign Onwenu & Bourne and Andrews doesn't retire.
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That's valid.
 
HuskyHawk said:
I don't want him. Of all the options he's the guy I don't want. More smash mouth football. He's the poor man's version of Bill. I liked him as a player, but if you are moving on then you need to move on.

The team has a huge amount of cap space, a fantastic defensive foundation and a few pieces on offense if they re-sign Onwenu & Bourne and Andrews doesn't retire.
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I'd take Vrabel coaching the Commanders.
 
Husky25 said:
I'd take Vrabel coaching the Commanders.
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I'm coming around on Vrabel under one circumstance. One point I think most pundits and fans are missing is that owners don't hire coaches, owners hire GMs who hire coaches. So if Bill is gone, step one is the GM. The hottest GM name has Patriots ties, Adam Peters with the 49ers. He was in NE when Vrabel was and it's believed they could be a package deal wherever Petes goes. That package could work for me. Need a really good OC too, nothing like what the Titans run.
 
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HuskyHawk said:
I'm coming around on Vrabel under one circumstance. One point I think most pundits and fans are missing is that owners don't hire coaches, owners hire GMs who hire coaches. So if Bill is gone, step one is the GM. The hottest GM name has Patriots ties, Adam Peters with the 49ers. He was in NE when Vrabel was and it's believed they could be a package deal wherever Petes goes. That package could work for me. Need a really good OC too, nothing like what the Titans run.
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Adam Peters is also Josh Harris's first choice for GM.

Also, I believe Kraft did hire Belichick as GM and Head Coach in 2000. The distinction with a slight difference is that he often had a player personnel guy (Grier, Piolli, Casserio) against whom to bounce ideas. He also stumbled into the greatest quarterback to ever put on pads who also happened to be down to Earth (so to speak), team-first, and financially secure outside of football. Not saying that Belichick didn't see potential, but he is not clairvoyant. From splitting time with Drew Henson, no one could have predicted that Brady would end up doing what he did or being what he was on the field.

What I like about Vrabel is that he's been coached by Belichick, but is not from the Belichick coaching tree, all who seem to act like him but do not have the other characteristics to succeed like him. Wiese didn't. Mangini didn't. Not McDaniels or Patricia, and certainly Judge. Only Romeo Crennel and Bill O'Brien had any level of mild success out from under the Belichick umbrella.
 
Husky25 said:
Adam Peters is also Josh Harris's first choice for GM.

Also, I believe Kraft did hire Belichick as GM and Head Coach in 2000. The distinction with a slight difference is that he often had a player personnel guy (Grier, Piolli, Casserio) against whom to bounce ideas. He also stumbled into the greatest quarterback to ever put on pads who also happened to be down to Earth (so to speak), team-first, and financially secure outside of football. Not saying that Belichick didn't see potential, but he is not clairvoyant. From splitting time with Drew Henson, no one could have predicted that Brady would end up doing what he did or being what he was on the field.

What I like about Vrabel is that he's been coached by Belichick, but is not from the Belichick coaching tree, all who seem to act like him but do not have the other characteristics to succeed like him. Wiese didn't. Mangini didn't. Not McDaniels or Patricia, and certainly Judge. Only Romeo Crennel and Bill O'Brien had any level of mild success out from under the Belichick umbrella.
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That is true, but nobody is making Mike Vrabel Coach-GM like Bill. So the GM decision has to come either before or contemporaneous with the coach decision. I agree that Bill's troubles may stem from the lack of a Pioli/Casserio level guy working with him. There has been huge brain drain in the front office. He also won't embrace analytics, which is a problem.

The latest rumors are that he's clearing out his office. No idea if true. Also, Rappaport is reporting that a big reason why the Titans fired Vrabel is the way he was so glowing about the Patriots at his Patriots HOF induction.

 
HuskyHawk said:
That is true, but nobody is making Mike Vrabel Coach-GM like Bill. So the GM decision has to come either before or contemporaneous with the coach decision. I agree that Bill's troubles may stem from the lack of a Pioli/Casserio level guy working with him. There has been huge brain drain in the front office. He also won't embrace analytics, which is a problem.

The latest rumors are that he's clearing out his office. No idea if true. Also, Rappaport is reporting that a big reason why the Titans fired Vrabel is the way he was so glowing about the Patriots at his Patriots HOF induction.

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That's Boston-College-firing-Jagodzinski level petty. On the other hand if the owner thinks his heart is not all in, then I guess it makes sense.
 
The Pats hiring Vrabel over Jerrod Mayo is a non-starter, imo.
 
This tracks with Josh Harris's public comments of not chasing after "retreads." :D

 
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