The Official 2023 New England Patriots Thread

[Husky25]

I wonder how Washington satisfied the Rooney Rule. I'm sure they did, but from the outside looking in they must have quickly done outside minority interviews and are looking to transition Martin Mayhew (Former WSH starting CB, opposite Darrell Green, with a SB XXVI ring) to another exec position. Adam Peters hire was really fast and not a secret.

 

[Deepster]

Seems like something Ed Cooley would say after $2 Beer Night.

Kraft yesterday said that the stated goal was to get back to the playoffs and win a playoff game. Make the Tournament. Anything can happen after that.

Brady and Belichick certainly spoiled Pats fans, but so what? One could say that about any dynasty. Larry Bird spoiled Celtics Fans. Calhoun and Geno spoiled UConn fans. Torre Spoiled Yankees Fans. Gibbs spoiled Washington fans. Most every franchise fortunes ebb and flow. Enjoy it, be entertained, or else occupy your down-time with something else.

In a group text with friends, one of them (a 25 yr season ticket holder) said he can see them in the Super Bowl in two years if they get the right qb. They’ll be lucky to finish third in their division the next two years.

 

[Waquoit]

In a group text with friends, one of them (a 25 yr season ticket holder) said he can see them in the Super Bowl in two years if they get the right qb.

This reminds of that old Steve Martin bit "how to make a million dollars and not pay taxes". "First, make a million dollars..." And really, can't pretty much every team say that?

 

[Husky25]

In a group text with friends, one of them (a 25 yr season ticket holder) said he can see them in the Super Bowl in two years if they get the right qb. They’ll be lucky to finish third in their division the next two years.

Stars will have to align perfectly for Super Bowl, but a Playoff win is certainly within The Realm. NFL rosters turn over on average by 45% every year and 65% after year 2.

 

[Waquoit]

They have no offense and just hired a defensive coach. Two years seems like a stretch goal at best.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Stars will have to align perfectly for Super Bowl, but a Playoff win is certainly within The Realm. NFL rosters turn over on average by 45% every year and 65% after year 2.

Yeah, Deepster is a Jets fan engaging in wishful thinking. 3rd pick in the draft and the 2nd most cap space.

• Defense is essentially set, just need to extend Barmore. Maybe get a FS and let Dugger walk. Corner depth helped by Austin looking like a player.
• Offensive Line. Needs a LT & RT unless we need sign Onwenu (they will). Andrews needs to not retire. Guard situation isn't bad.
• WR needs one real game breaker and two more guys who can get open and catch the ball. It's just Douglas right now unless they sign Bourne. Parker maybe as a 5th WR depth guy. Juju and Thornton must go.
• TE zero guys on roster. Brown was promising and will be cheap. Position is weak league wide right now.
• RB is fine if Elliot is back, need more depth with a speed/3rd down/change of pace back. Easy to find. Loads of FA RBs
• QB - we've got nothing. Maybe Mac or Rourke as a 3rd stringer. Cut Zappe. Need rookie future starter + veteran bridge guy.

How much of that can you fill in one year with great draft position and loads of cap space? Probably everything but the WR and TE depth. That's probably a two year effort. Biggest challenge is there are no LTs in FA that are appealing. The top two graded OTs in FA are Brown and Onwenu. So LT is either trade or draft.

First and 2nd round picks need to be QB, OT or WR (in some order). But that still leaves a hole. 3rd round WR might be a player, but probably not a stud unless you get really lucky like the Rams did with Puka in round 5.

 

[Deepster]

Wishful thinking? Even if you did all of that? You’re not going to finish ahead of 27 yr old Josh Allen and the Bills or the Tua/Tyreek Dolphins the next two years. You just better hope Rodgers is a dud or gets hurt again or it’s last place. Just being realistic here. You’re not nearly as close as you think.

 

[HuskyHawk]

As thoughts turn to the draft and free agency, the big question is what to do at #3. I've been leaning towards taking Harrison and grabbing a QB later while signing a decent veteran.

"Over the last 25 drafts, the first non-quarterbacks taken have combined to make 66 Pro Bowls. All but eight have made at least one, and that doesn't include Texans defensive end Will Anderson, this year's third overall pick, who just recorded seven sacks and is a favorite for defensive Rookie of the Year."

Tomase: Research shows Pats should go non-QB route at No. 3

The Patriots need a franchise quarterback, but they may want to use their top 2024 NFL Draft pick on a different position, writes John Tomase.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

 

[HuskyHawk]

Wishful thinking? Even if you did all of that? You’re not going to finish ahead of 27 yr old Josh Allen and the Bills or the Tua/Tyreek Dolphins the next two years. You just better hope Rodgers is a dud or gets hurt again or it’s last place. Just being realistic here. You’re not nearly as close as you think.

The Dolphins are toast. They are going to have to gut that team in the offseason. Buffalo as well, but at least they have Allen locked up. Other than the Saints, those two teams have the worst cap situation in the NFL. Dolphins probably won't be a playoff team (couldn't beat but one team over .500 even this year) and there's a chance both New England and the Jets are better than Miami.

 

[Deepster]

The Dolphins are toast. They are going to have to gut that team in the offseason. Buffalo as well, but at least they have Allen locked up. Other than the Saints, those two teams have the worst cap situation in the NFL. Dolphins probably won't be a playoff team (couldn't beat but one team over .500 even this year) and there's a chance both New England and the Jets are better than Miami.

If they kept Tua.
If they kept one of Achane or Mostert
If they kept Hill or Waddle.

They’re still 3x better than the Pats offense.

 

[HuskyHawk]

If they kept Tua.
If they kept one of Achane or Mostert
If they kept Hill or Waddle.

They’re still 3x better than the Pats offense.

The offense that managed all of 7 points against KC? That couldn't lead to them to wins against any good teams except a 2 point win over Dallas? Meanwhile their defense gave up 48 to Buffalo. 56 to the Ravens. Go look at who they beat. Jets X2, Pats X2, Carolina, Vegas, Washington, the Giants and Denver big win of the year aside from Dallas, the Chargers. Miami sucks.

Patriots offense will get much better. As will the Jets. Miami offense and defense are about to get worse.

 

[Deepster]

The offense that managed all of 7 points against KC? That couldn't lead to them to wins against any good teams except a 2 point win over Dallas? Meanwhile their defense gave up 48 to Buffalo. 56 to the Ravens. Go look at who they beat. Jets X2, Pats X2, Carolina, Vegas, Washington, the Giants and Denver big win of the year aside from Dallas, the Chargers. Miami sucks.

Patriots offense will get much better. As will the Jets. Miami offense and defense are about to get worse.

I'm not going to gauge the Miami offense in a game that was -10 to -20 degrees.

It's an interesting side argument. Teams deserve home field advantage over a season. But, is it really fair for a team from South FL to play in that environment? Any northern team that plays 85+ degree weather has that game in the first month of the season. A Miami playing in that weather isn't apples to apples.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm not going to gauge the Miami offense in a game that was -10 to -20 degrees.

It's an interesting side argument. Teams deserve home field advantage over a season. But, is it really fair for a team from South FL to play in that environment? Any northern team that plays 85+ degree weather has that game in the first month of the season. A Miami playing in that weather isn't apples to apples.

Too bad. Build your team for the playoffs. Miami isn‘t. It‘s football. It’s not ballet. Mostert? He’s not better than Stephenson when healthy nor than Breece Hall. He’s a warm weather back. The Miami teams that won championships were built on defense. Built like teams from Pittsburgh. Tampa dominated on defense a few years back.

 

[HeGotGame]

The Dolphins are toast. They are going to have to gut that team in the offseason. Buffalo as well, but at least they have Allen locked up. Other than the Saints, those two teams have the worst cap situation in the NFL. Dolphins probably won't be a playoff team (couldn't beat but one team over .500 even this year) and there's a chance both New England and the Jets are better than Miami.

Most of Miami's offense, outside of Tua in 2025, is locked up, the defense is where they will finagle the money with the cap.

Also, you are really banking on teams falling apart and the Pats being good because of the cap. Do you remember a couple years ago when the Pats had all that cap space? Yea, here is what they did:

Matthew Judon, LB	$32M
Jonnu Smith, TE	$31.25M
Hunter Henry, TE	$25M
Nelson Agholor, WR	$16M
Deatrich Wise Jr., DE	$10M
Jalen Mills, S	$9M
Davon Godchaux, DT	$9M
Kendrick Bourne, WR	$5.25M

Threw it all away for the most part and got worse each season after.

And for the cap killing teams? Teams always figure it out that are contending, Saints, Cowboys, Eagles, and Rams were always in a bad spot and find a way to restructure until they want to the bottom fall off and need to rebuild, ala Rams last year.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Most of Miami's offense, outside of Tua in 2025, is locked up, the defense is where they will finagle the money with the cap.

Also, you are really banking on teams falling apart and the Pats being good because of the cap. Do you remember a couple years ago when the Pats had all that cap space? Yea, here is what they did:

Matthew Judon, LB	$32M
Jonnu Smith, TE	$31.25M
Hunter Henry, TE	$25M
Nelson Agholor, WR	$16M
Deatrich Wise Jr., DE	$10M
Jalen Mills, S	$9M
Davon Godchaux, DT	$9M
Kendrick Bourne, WR	$5.25M

Threw it all away for the most part and got worse each season after.

And for the cap killing teams? Teams always figure it out that are contending, Saints, Cowboys, Eagles, and Rams were always in a bad spot and find a way to restructure until they want to the bottom fall off and need to rebuild, ala Rams last year.

Threw it away? Other than Smith and Agholor, those were all successful. Judon became one of the best pass rushers in the game and vastly outplayed that contract. Wise has outplayed his contract as well. Bourne was a steal at that price.

Miami's defense already stinks. Playing with cap to keep the offense means losing the few good defensive players they have or some of the OL.

 

[HeGotGame]

Threw it away? Other than Smith and Agholor, those were all successful. Judon became one of the best pass rushers in the game and vastly outplayed that contract. Wise has outplayed his contract as well. Bourne was a steal at that price.

Miami's defense already stinks. Playing with cap to keep the offense means losing the few good defensive players they have or some of the OL.

Ha, so you think Hunter Henry was worth 25 mill GTD? You think he performed at a top 5 TE level? Because that is what he was paid. I mean I know I am talking to someone who thought trading up for a kicker was a good idea, but even for you that is a laugh.

Judon yes, but Smith, Henry, Algholor were the next big 3 signing and they were all huge busts.

Godchaux graded out as 101st out of 130rd DTs. Cool. Mills, 76 out of 96 safeties. Cool. You seem to think because these guys play and start they are good, but they are not. They are below replacement level players who were paid well above it.

When Kendrick Bourne, who is nothing more than a decent WR 3 is one of the better signings it says everything.

Also, its funny that you says the Pats D is "excellent" and Miami's "stinks" when they rate on counting and advance metrics pretty similar.

 

[Husky25]

Even if he's black and internal, the Rooney Rule requires interview of external candidates. Seems they avoided it with this contract move. Because otherwise it would still apply. Do not like this move at all. He may be fine, but doing it before the GM hire is stupid.

The Rooney Rule | NFL Football Operations

operations.nfl.com

It was reported that Belichick has had two interviews already with the Falcons and is all but assured the job.

If true, Interviewing Aaron Glenn at this point seems to be just to check a box. Particularly if BB does wind up in Atlanta.

Didn't the Lions get fined and lose a draft pick for similarly violating the spirit of the Rooney Rule when they hired Mooch?

 

[HuskyHawk]

It was reported that Belichick has had two interviews already with the Falcons and is all but assured the job.

If true, Interviewing Aaron Glenn at this point seems to be just to check a box. Particularly if BB does wind up in Atlanta.

Didn't the Lions get fined and lose a draft pick for similarly violating the spirit of the Rooney Rule when they hired Mooch?

I appreciate the intent of the rule, but what choice do they have but to check that box? For Glenn he gets some practice interviewing and the fact that he is considered is a plus for the next opening. Even the Falcons likely need another coach in 2 years. So they get information.

Has anybody ever gotten a job bc of a Rooney rule interview? Teams now get a comp pick if a minority coach gets hired away to a HC job. That seems like a bigger incentive to me.

 

[Husky25]

I appreciate the intent of the rule, but what choice do they have but to check that box? For Glenn he gets some practice interviewing and the fact that he is considered is a plus for the next opening. Even the Falcons likely need another coach in 2 years. So they get information.

Has anybody ever gotten a job bc of a Rooney rule interview? Teams now get a comp pick if a minority coach gets hired away to a HC job. That seems like a bigger incentive to me.

Then why complain about Mayo? Correct me if I'm wrong, but a minority actually getting the job is loads better optics than the token interview when the decision is already made.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Then why complain about Mayo? Correct me if I'm wrong, but a minority actually getting the job is loads better optics than the token interview when the decision is already made.

I didn’t complain. When I posted that it seemed they ignored the rule, which leads to loss of draft picks. Thats all I cared about. Only later was it revealed that they had a contract clause that allowed them to do it.

My main complaint is the lack of a GM, especially an outside voice. This Off-season is too important to let the old staff make the decisions.

 

[Waquoit]

I didn’t complain. When I posted that it seemed they ignored the rule, which leads to loss of draft picks. Thats all I cared about. Only later was it revealed that they had a contract clause that allowed them to do it.

The entire reason for the rule is to get more coaches of color hired. The hired a black coach. They were never in danger of losing picks.

 

[Husky25]

I didn’t complain. When I posted that it seemed they ignored the rule, which leads to loss of draft picks. Thats all I cared about. Only later was it revealed that they had a contract clause that allowed them to do it.

My main complaint is the lack of a GM, especially an outside voice. This Off-season is too important to let the old staff make the decisions.

I don't necessarily disagree about the GM, but I Also don't see how they could have ignored the rule. Without getting too nuanced, The Rooney Rule is meant enhance the pool of minority candidates to increase the opportunity to fill an HC and FO position. It's a means to an end. Mayo fulfilled the end. I don't think I've ever heard of a position, particularly of the magnitude of head NFL coach being filled without an interview.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The entire reason for the rule is to get more coaches of color hired. The hired a black coach. They were never in danger of losing picks.

The rule requires an external interview, two actually, no matter who the internal candidate is. So yes, without the contract clause they’d have issues.

 

[Husky25]

Word out of the DMV (No, not where one gets their drivers license) is that the Commanders are closing in on Ben Johnson, the Detroit OC who resurrected Jared Goff's career with 9,000 yards and 59 TD (against 19 INTs) over the last two years, for their head coach. The fact that Mike Vrabel is still out there is baffling. He is evidently not going to the Patriots, who are promoting DeMarcus Covington to DC. OC is probably coming from outside the organization.

Further, I've heard multiple Commander team-centric and national sources indicate that Jayden Daniels is jumping over Drake Maye at the 2nd pick.

Long way to go before April and both the Commanders and Patriots staffs are incomplete, but I am liking what Josh Harris is doing and and very interested how the Patriots will round out. If Daniels goes #2, I think the Patriots will pick one of MHJ (might be a necessity, with or without Boutte), Joe Alt, or Fashanu. I'm not sure if JJ McCarthy played himself into the 1st round, but they should scoop him up if he's there for the Patriots in the 2nd. Wherever McCarthy ends up, he's probably best served to hold a clipboard for a year.

 

[Waquoit]

The rule requires an external interview, two actually, no matter who the internal candidate is. So yes, without the contract clause they’d have issues.

Probably end up on double secret probation.