The Nat Attack

[hoophuskee]

We must have watched different games. Just talking about offense here. Both Saniya and Courtney did not take a shot in the first half, despite Saniya having three open looks. KLS didn't play at all in the first half. Gabby showed what subs need to do: get in the game, and make things happen, don't defer to other players. I think Gabby had 10 in the first half. She had some nice mid range shots. It might not be fair to compare Saniya or Courtney or KLS to Gabby, but that's what Geno is looking for, when you get in the game, make something happen offensively. The second half was better, but most of the starters were out of the game by that point.

Definitely Natalie made things happen when she got in. She made the most of her playing time. And Geno said that Nat was excited to get in there. Almost as excited as we were to see her in there. The future is brighter.

I think you are being way way way too critical. Geno has said a bit this year UCONN has been playing too fast. VS cinci UCONN can (and showed) they can get off 3's anytime they want. One of the 3's Chong could have taken - just one pass after her pass- they got an inside three point play for Gabby. And Chong did take a 3 in the 1st half. I don't think vs a team like cinci Chong should be the one firing up 3's often if the offense is trying to work on getting the ball inside. She took one. Maybe knock her for not taking another.

And as for CE-- no way should she have taken that shot in 1sthalf the instead she got into the game. That's the only time I saw she was open. I' sure the team was working getting the ball in the paint and her firing a 3 the 1st minute she is in the game while Geno has as indicated before preaching patience probably wouldn't have been looked upon as a positive by Geno. You have to admit the game plan would be to pound the ball inside vs Cinci, right? And you think taking a quick 3 coming in would make Geno happy unless your name is Katie Lou? And even then with Katie Lou . . .

When we play these weaker teams--don't look for three's to be taken early much from the bench players (unless you are Katie Lou). I'm sure they are being told to pass up taking the 3 as 1st option (unless inside out or worked around well) in order to pound the paint. If Katie Lou passes up a bit too often then that could be considered a negative too - ie not playing with confidence. It's just that Chong and CE are not the potential scorer that KLS can be. There imo lies the difference.

 

[Gus Mahler]

I think you are being way way way too critical. Geno has said a bit this year UCONN has been playing too fast. VS cinci UCONN can (and showed) they can get off 3's anytime they want. One of the 3's Chong could have taken - just one pass after her pass- they got an inside three point play for Gabby. And Chong did take a 3 in the 1st half. I don't think vs a team like cinci Chong should be the one firing up 3's often if the offense is trying to work on getting the ball inside. She took one. Maybe knock her for not taking another.

And as for CE-- no way should she have taken that shot in 1sthalf the instead she got into the game. That's the only time I saw she was open. I' sure the team was working getting the ball in the paint and her firing a 3 the 1st minute she is in the game while Geno has as indicated before preaching patience probably wouldn't have been looked upon as a positive by Geno. You have to admit the game plan would be to pound the ball inside vs Cinci, right? And you think taking a quick 3 coming in would make Geno happy unless your name is Katie Lou? And even then with Katie Lou . . .

When we play these weaker teams--don't look for three's to be taken early much from the bench players (unless you are Katie Lou). I'm sure they are being told to pass up taking the 3 as 1st option (unless inside out or worked around well) in order to pound the paint. If Katie Lou passes up a bit too often then that could be considered a negative too - ie not playing with confidence. It's just that Chong and CE are not the potential scorer that KLS can be. There imo lies the difference.

I'm pretty much on the same page with you.

 

[Gus Mahler]

Morgan and Stewie also made their bigs out to be slow of foot, tying them into knots as the two scored pretty readily inside.

Yup. Kept getting what Doris called post isolations. That game was one of the truly thrilling exhibitions of basketball I have ever seen. It was Geno giving a master class and his students carrying it out to perfection.

 

[hoophuskee]

No one will be happier than Bre to see Natalie in the post. Ever since Step left, Stewart has basically been playing the 5. As a result, she as taken a serious pounding, abuse that she would not have had to take if UConn had brought in a big sooner. I never remember Bre complaining; in fact, she said recently that she would be surprised to be in a game where she wasn't being roughed up. Now, if Butler is truly OK and ready to put in the minutes, Stewart should be much freer to much more damage. Is that possible? Make a note of this date. Expect an even better Bre.

We won a title and lost one game last year with BS at the 5 / 4. We're fine with her at the 5 and now we're stronger with NB too. IMO the BS "getting beat up" is overrated. She has been free for a long time and she makes the opposition pay much more than they do to her. How many centers can guard her? I didn't see her wear down last year. IMO she got stronger throughout the year. And I want her inside for blocking shots more than outside on the perimeter. NB will make this team much better if she shows what she did the1st game though. She looked terrific.

 

[hoophuskee]

Hey Donald - I agree. Irwin would be the first sub for the Bigs (or go with 3 bigs on the floor). Bent would have to get by Chong, Danger, Nurse, and even Courtney before she hits the floor. I hear she is really smart and can play, but I think her minutes would be towards the end of blowouts. However, who knows what the future brings?

Irwin subbing over Gabby and Collier? IMO when either Butler or Tuck leave they'll slot in as 1st options NC or Gabby. And imo even KLS would play 4 ahead of Irwin for the most part.

By the way, is Irwin definitely a better player than Bent?

 

[HuskyNan]

I've seen a few references to Katie Lou being a "big". She is not a big, she's a wing (see the roster if you don't believe me). Like Ann Strother before her, Lou is a big guard. Remember when Geno had to play Annie in the post out of necessity? She was not successful there because she has a guard's mentality - she wants to play on the perimeter and pass the ball. Banging with the bigs in the paint was not part of her instincts or lifelong training. It's the same for Lou.

 

[JoePgh]

I've seen a few references to Katie Lou being a "big". She is not a big, she's a wing (see the roster if you don't believe me). Like Ann Strother before her, Lou is a big guard. Remember when Geno had to play Annie in the post out of necessity? She was not successful there because she has a guard's mentality - she wants to play on the perimeter and pass the ball. Banging with the bigs in the paint was not part of her instincts or lifelong training. It's the same for Lou.

What you say about Ann Strother could just as easily be said about Breanna Stewart as a freshman. Stewie at that time would have been happy to hang out at the 3-point line, as Geno noted at the time. When she had a shooting slump in mid-season, Geno finally convinced her that she needed to have a more versatile game and play both inside and outside, developing both sets of skills. We have seen the results.

Since Geno has already made the comparison between Stewie and KLS, and has urged KLS to "play like Stewie", I would expect him to push her towards a similar trajectory for her future UConn career. That will be particularly important to allow her to make a contribution while her 3-point shot continues to desert her.

And I do think that over time, KLS can be successful in the paint -- maybe not as successful as Stewie, but successful enough to be a serious problem for opponents at both ends of the floor. The question is whether she will embrace or resist that role. But if she came to UConn to see how good a basketball player she could possibly become, and if she sees the example of Stewie (who has probably told her the saga of her own freshman year), she should be motivated to do that.

 

[HuskyNan]

What you say about Ann Strother could just as easily be said about Breanna Stewart as a freshman. Stewie at that time would have been happy to hang out at the 3-point line, as Geno noted at the time. When she had a shooting slump in mid-season, Geno finally convinced her that she needed to have a more versatile game and play both inside and outside, developing both sets of skills. We have seen the results.

Since Geno has already made the comparison between Stewie and KLS, and has urged KLS to "play like Stewie", I would expect him to push her towards a similar trajectory for her future UConn career. That will be particularly important to allow her to make a contribution while her 3-point shot continues to desert her.

And I do think that over time, KLS can be successful in the paint -- maybe not as successful as Stewie, but successful enough to be a serious problem for opponents at both ends of the floor. The question is whether she will embrace or resist that role. But if she came to UConn to see how good a basketball player she could possibly become, and if she sees the example of Stewie (who has probably told her the saga of her own freshman year), she should be motivated to do that.

Stewie is singular; no one is like her. Geno may want Lou to go to the basket more, and he badgered the heck out of Diana to do just that, but that doesn't make her a post, just a guard with a diverse game. Lou isn't a banger any more than Dee was.

 

[CL82]

Stewie is singular; no one is like her. Geno may want Lou to go to the basket more, and he badgered the heck out of Diana to do just that, but that doesn't make her a post, just a guard with a diverse game. Lou isn't a banger any more than Dee was.

Guard or small forward? I'm not sure about her handle.

 

[donalddoowop]

hoophuskee, I believe Chong has as much a chance to be a big time scorer as KLS does. All she needs is the opportunity. If she maintains the confidence she has recently shown, she will be a very important asset.

 

[JoePgh]

Stewie is singular; no one is like her. Geno may want Lou to go to the basket more, and he badgered the heck out of Diana to do just that, but that doesn't make her a post, just a guard with a diverse game. Lou isn't a banger any more than Dee was.

Maybe another role model for KLS, which may be a little more realistic for her, is Rebecca Lobo. She had an outside game and diverse offensive capabilities, but she still assumed a big role in the paint, and had to play more physically than she was probably eager to do. But she did it (in her junior and senior years, at least), and that was essential for UConn to win its first NC.

When Geno was asked about KLS's pilgrimage to his doghouse in the Cincinnati game, he commented about how she needs to learn to play with more intensity, and then said, "And besides, Saniya has been playing better in practice recently". That comment caught my ear because it initially seemed odd to compare Saniya and KLS, who arguably have different roles. But I think there was a subtext to that remark -- approximately like "Hey, Lou, if you want to be a pure guard, then you'll be competing against Saniya, and since Rosemary fixed her leg, she is winning that competition. Maybe you would have a better chance to earn minutes if you diversified your game more, including playing in the paint every now and then."

On defense, I think Lou has a better chance to succeed blocking shots in the paint than keeping small guards in front of her. She has already shown an appetite for rebounding and for scoring from close to the basket. She needs to give herself a greater chance to exercise those skills.

 

[hoophuskee]

hoophuskee, I believe Chong has as much a chance to be a big time scorer as KLS does. All she needs is the opportunity. If she maintains the confidence she has recently shown, she will be a very important asset.

Ahhh- I don't think so. We can agree to disagree. Chong can be big time in very small programs but she is too small. VS real good teams it is too difficult imo to get her open. KLS on the other hand is 6'3 and can move anywhere and get off a quality shot I think Chong can continue to be a very fine player just not an elite scorer. Recently she was benched for 3 quarters the 4th qtr KLS takes 6 shots. Not sure any of them were bad. And she had an offensive foul plus she got fouled. She did al that with ease. Though anyone can charge. Chong needs space and her team "determined" to give her a lot of looks. She gets her looks off the play/threat of others. KLS imo doesn't need that like Chong does. KLS can play 2/3/4 positions and can get off quality shots many many times. I don't think Chong can.

 

[hoophuskee]

Maybe another role model for KLS, which may be a little more realistic for her, is Rebecca Lobo. She had an outside game and diverse offensive capabilities, but she still assumed a big role in the paint, and had to play more physically than she was probably eager to do. But she did it (in her junior and senior years, at least), and that was essential for UConn to win its first NC.

When Geno was asked about KLS's pilgrimage to his doghouse in the Cincinnati game, he commented about how she needs to learn to play with more intensity, and then said, "And besides, Saniya has been playing better in practice recently". That comment caught my ear because it initially seemed odd to compare Saniya and KLS, who arguably have different roles. But I think there was a subtext to that remark -- approximately like "Hey, Lou, if you want to be a pure guard, then you'll be competing against Saniya, and since Rosemary fixed her leg, she is winning that competition. Maybe you would have a better chance to earn minutes if you diversified your game more, including playing in the paint every now and then."

On defense, I think Lou has a better chance to succeed blocking shots in the paint than keeping small guards in front of her. She has already shown an appetite for rebounding and for scoring from close to the basket. She needs to give herself a greater chance to exercise those skills.

I don't see KLS and Lobo near the same. There is no way with KLS's supposed ability to shoot the ball that she won't be playing much more on the perimeter. KLS does need to do more than juts shoot 3's but it doesn't mean she should primarily be scoring 15 feet from the basket and in. IF IF IF IF her shot starts ot go down - we should want her MORE on the perimeter than in the paint. IMO she needs to not allow small guards to play her especially when her shot is off - but her 1st priority needs to be sticking 3's. If she is ear the shooter that she was in high school- she is an all-american. She wasn't a/a because of her inside play.

 

[Kaizen]

Ahhh- I don't think so. We can agree to disagree. Chong can be big time in very small programs but she is too small. VS real good teams it is too difficult imo to get her open. KLS on the other hand is 6'3 and can move anywhere and get off a quality shot I think Chong can continue to be a very fine player just not an elite scorer. Recently she was benched for 3 quarters the 4th qtr KLS takes 6 shots. Not sure any of them were bad. And she had an offensive foul plus she got fouled. She did al that with ease. Though anyone can charge. Chong needs space and her team "determined" to give her a lot of looks. She gets her looks off the play/threat of others. KLS imo doesn't need that like Chong does. KLS can play 2/3/4 positions and can get off quality shots many many times. I don't think Chong can.

Chong is 1 inch taller than Moriah, and 2 inches taller than our new star Dangerfield.
Sue Bird is only 1 inch taller than Chong.

 

[Gus Mahler]

Maybe another role model for KLS, which may be a little more realistic for her, is Rebecca Lobo. She had an outside game and diverse offensive capabilities, but she still assumed a big role in the paint, and had to play more physically than she was probably eager to do. But she did it (in her junior and senior years, at least), and that was essential for UConn to win its first NC.

When Geno was asked about KLS's pilgrimage to his doghouse in the Cincinnati game, he commented about how she needs to learn to play with more intensity, and then said, "And besides, Saniya has been playing better in practice recently". That comment caught my ear because it initially seemed odd to compare Saniya and KLS, who arguably have different roles. But I think there was a subtext to that remark -- approximately like "Hey, Lou, if you want to be a pure guard, then you'll be competing against Saniya, and since Rosemary fixed her leg, she is winning that competition. Maybe you would have a better chance to earn minutes if you diversified your game more, including playing in the paint every now and then."

On defense, I think Lou has a better chance to succeed blocking shots in the paint than keeping small guards in front of her. She has already shown an appetite for rebounding and for scoring from close to the basket. She needs to give herself a greater chance to exercise those skills.

Interesting post, Joe.

 

[uconnfan68]

I don't see KLS and Lobo near the same. There is no way with KLS's supposed ability to shoot the ball that she won't be playing much more on the perimeter. KLS does need to do more than juts shoot 3's but it doesn't mean she should primarily be scoring 15 feet from the basket and in. IF IF IF IF her shot starts ot go down - we should want her MORE on the perimeter than in the paint. IMO she needs to not allow small guards to play her especially when her shot is off - but her 1st priority needs to be sticking 3's. If she is ear the shooter that she was in high school- she is an all-american. She wasn't a/a because of her inside play.

Agree, but Rebecca was a 4. Lou will never be a 4.

 

[donalddoowop]

Ahhh- I don't think so. We can agree to disagree. Chong can be big time in very small programs but she is too small. VS real good teams it is too difficult imo to get her open. KLS on the other hand is 6'3 and can move anywhere and get off a quality shot I think Chong can continue to be a very fine player just not an elite scorer. Recently she was benched for 3 quarters the 4th qtr KLS takes 6 shots. Not sure any of them were bad. And she had an offensive foul plus she got fouled. She did al that with ease. Though anyone can charge. Chong needs space and her team "determined" to give her a lot of looks. She gets her looks off the play/threat of others. KLS imo doesn't need that like Chong does. KLS can play 2/3/4 positions and can get off quality shots many many times. I don't think Chong can.

She is taller than Mo and almost as tall as Nurse. She has the moves to get open and she is quick. If she averages 10 shots a game she will average double figures, imo. I'm referring to next season.

 

[Gus Mahler]

She is taller than Mo and almost as tall as Nurse. She has the moves to get open and she is quick. If she averages 10 shots a game she will average double figures, imo. I'm referring to next season.

Betcha I know a certain coach down in Durham, NC, who would love to have her right now!!

PS I agree with you regarding next season. Hope she gets the opportunity.

 

[hoophuskee]

Agree, but Rebecca was a 4. Lou will never be a 4.

I was disagreeing with the person that said KLS is like Lobo. With that said- I don't agree KLS won't ever be a 4. Suppose Tuck doesn't come back? Now we have just three "bigs" of NB, NC, and GW. If one big is in foul trouble and one isn't playing well- IMO I would expect KLS ot fulfill "the 4." Geno is harping on KLS so she doesn't become so one-dimensional. KLS has to strive above Ann S. I think she can do it and will be bale to play the 4 if called upon with success. You don't need to low post to be a 4. Why can't she be "the high" in the "high-low set? " That would make her a "4" on the offense. On defense over her career why can't she get tougher? I used to hear when she was the number 1 recruit that she can grab tough rebounds in traffic. IMO Geno is going to put that to the test. And if she can grab rebounds in traffic she can play 4 too.

 

[hoophuskee]

She is taller than Mo and almost as tall as Nurse. She has the moves to get open and she is quick. If she averages 10 shots a game she will average double figures, imo. I'm referring to next season.

She might be near as tall as Nurse but not as big or as strong as Nurse. But Nurse has my guess 3 inches on her so I don't think 5'8 vs 5'11 and Nurse's overall size they are "that" near each other. Secondly, UCONN is more about passing (especially inside out) than individual moves. And I don't think she is as fast or as quick as MoJeff and if MoJeff is only averaging10 shots a game while playing so many minutes, I don't think SC come that close approaching the number. Thus I can't see her getting off 10 shots. IMO Nurse, KLS, Tuck and at least two or maybe even three of Butler/Williams/Collier will average more shots than her. And I hear Geno speak of how he wants to work the ball inside, I don't see Chong getting 10 shots per game. If she averages 10 ppg or a bit more it will be because she is extremely efficient only taking very good shots - especially from 3.

 

[meyers7]

She will be a double-double machine once she gets the playing time , which is hopefully soon. It wouldn't surprise me if both Nat and NC averaged double -doubles next year.

That would surprise the hell out of me. Can and will are very different. The last person to avg a double-double for a season was....Lobo. 20 year ago. Nobody since then. Not Charles, not Wolters, not Abrosimova, not Cash, not Moore, not Dolson, not Stewart. All AA's and a few NPOYs, but none of them ever averaged a double-double. All of them probably could have, but none of them did.

 

[Roundball fan]

What you say about Ann Strother could just as easily be said about Breanna Stewart as a freshman. Stewie at that time would have been happy to hang out at the 3-point line, as Geno noted at the time. When she had a shooting slump in mid-season, Geno finally convinced her that she needed to have a more versatile game and play both inside and outside, developing both sets of skills. We have seen the results.

Since Geno has already made the comparison between Stewie and KLS, and has urged KLS to "play like Stewie", I would expect him to push her towards a similar trajectory for her future UConn career. That will be particularly important to allow her to make a contribution while her 3-point shot continues to desert her.

And I do think that over time, KLS can be successful in the paint -- maybe not as successful as Stewie, but successful enough to be a serious problem for opponents at both ends of the floor. The question is whether she will embrace or resist that role. But if she came to UConn to see how good a basketball player she could possibly become, and if she sees the example of Stewie (who has probably told her the saga of her own freshman year), she should be motivated to do that.

I think that KLS just received her first hard lesson in becoming a better player. Just hoping she is strong enough to take the gift Geno is offering her and become like Stewie.

 

[rugbymate]

That would surprise the hell out of me. Can and will are very different. The last person to avg a double-double for a season was....Lobo. 20 year ago. Nobody since then. Not Charles, not Wolters, not Abrosimova, not Cash, not Moore, not Dolson, not Stewart. All AA's and a few NPOYs, but none of them ever averaged a double-double. All of them probably could have, but none of them did.

You are correct as usual....however, Nat averaged a double-double at G-Town as a frosh and her per 40 min were about 15/15. She averaged 36 minutes playing time. NC is averaging about 13/13 per 40 min this year and one can only expect her numbers to improve. Looking ahead to next year one would think that NC, Nat and Tuck share the bulk of the minutes at the 4 and 5 slot so that's probably means a lot of playing time for NC and Nat. IMO, for both to average a double-double they will probably have to average at least 27 + minutes per game. That kind of playing time is possible so it wouldn't surprise me if they averaged a double-double but as you wisely pointed out, and I agree, it's not likely.

 

[HuskyNan]

You are correct as usual....however, Nat averaged a double-double at G-Town as a frosh and her per 40 min were about 15/15. She averaged 36 minutes playing time. NC is averaging about 13/13 per 40 min this year and one can only expect her numbers to improve. Looking ahead to next year one would think that NC, Nat and Tuck share the bulk of the minutes at the 4 and 5 slot so that's probably means a lot of playing time for NC and Nat. IMO, for both to average a double-double they will probably have to average at least 27 + minutes per game. That kind of playing time is possible so it wouldn't surprise me if they averaged a double-double but as you wisely pointed out, and I agree, it's not likely.

Who did Georgetown play in 2013-2014? Was the schedule comparable to UConn's?

 

[Jimbo]

Who did Georgetown play in 2013-2014? Was the schedule comparable to UConn's?

In a word, no. But IMHO it's unfair to discount her numbers from that season a whole lot simply because Georgetown's schedule was relatively weak. Three times while Butler was at Georgetown she played against DePaul, a team that I think we all agree is usually pretty good. In fact, DePaul went to the Sweet 16 that year. In three games against the Blue Demons, Natalie averaged 10.7 points and 11.3 rebounds in 28.3 minutes per game. As a freshman. I'm not saying she'll ever average a double-double at UConn, but I think she's proven that she can be pretty darn productive against solid competition.

EDIT: She shot 57.1% from the floor in those three games, in case anyone was wondering.