The False Recruiting Dichotomy

[Tonyc]

You can be great going anywhere. UConn offers a unique opportunity that many other schools can't offer. We know that and the Wilsons know that. Yes there is a lot of pressure coming from players, coaches and in state people for Aja to stay there. We saw Davis play for Georgia Tech, and Diamond at UNC and EDD at UD. That's what they wanted to do and for their own reasons. If Aja wants that that's what she wants and for her own reasons. Do many of us think she would have a better career at UConn? By reading what Im reading yes we do and I think her family knows if she doesn't come to UConn what she might be giving up. I don't think its about coming to UConn I think its about saying No to those instate people and it is a tuff decision. In the end I like our chances...

 

[Aluminny69]

I too am late to this thread, but let me add my thoughts. Here's an example. Laura Harper was scheduled to come to UConn, but at the last minute switched to Maryland, and took Crystal Langhorne with her. They wanted to create their own legacy. Unfortunately, Laura tore her achilles tendon her freshman year, but battled back to win a National Championship[ in 2006, and was the MOP of the tournament. Laura's No. 15 jersey hangs in the rafters at Comcast Center. She was drafted #10 in the WNBA, but suffered a career ending injury. Crystal Langhorne is still enjoying a successful WNBA career. So, it can happen. For Maryland, it was a "perfect storm." UConn was in a down year, partially because they didn't get Harper. Jeff Walz was still at Maryland, making his positive contribution. And Kristi Tolliver had a phenomenal freshman year.

On a side note, I just discovered that Tulane President Scott Cowen lived across the hall from me at UConn. Small world. (BTW, I also had someone in the dorm room near mine who turned out to be a serial killer.)

 

[EricSD]

You can be great going anywhere. UConn offers a unique opportunity that many other schools can't offer. We know that and the Wilsons know that. Yes there is a lot of pressure coming from players, coaches and in state people for Aja to stay there. We saw Davis play for Georgia Tech, and Diamond at UNC and EDD at UD. That's what they wanted to do and for their own reasons. If Aja wants that that's what she wants and for her own reasons. Do many of us think she would have a better career at UConn? By reading what Im reading yes we do and I think her family knows if she doesn't come to UConn what she might be giving up. I don't think its about coming to UConn I think its about saying No to those instate people and it is a tuff decision. In the end I like our chances...

One thing to add to what Tony said. I'll use Diamond Deshields as an example. She decided to go to UNC partly (or mainly) because she'd have more freedom to do what she wanted. I can't find her quotes but I believe she said something like that. It's not exactly the creating your own legacy statement, but...

Point is that she's an elite athlete. She has a scorers mentality. BUT she would be taught very differently if she were at UCONN. Anyone who watched UNC vs. Tennessee can see she'd never be playing the way she did that game if she were at UCONN. However, she will have 4 years at UNC. That gives her plenty of time to work on her game and still be a star after college. The age old question of would she be better had she gone to UCONN? Maybe she'd be like Charde and never quite get the system, struggle in it, and ultimately be a good but not great college player. But it's my belief she'd be a better all around player had she come to UCONN.

I don't think it's arrogant to say UCONN has the best coaches in the nation, nor that it's our opinion they develop the players better than anyone else MOST OF THE TIME. Again, Charde example. Getting back to the legacy issue, or whatever it's called, SC would be a great local choice for her. If it's not UCONN, I hope it's SC. BUT having one solid class won't even get SC to the final 4. Dawn would need to convince her that she can follow up 2014 with terrific classes in 2015 and 2016 for SC to really make a mark while A'ja would be there...

Alumni made a great point - it wasn't just Harper and Langhorne who led Maryland to the NC. They also had Tolliver, Shay Doran, Marissa Coleman, and I can't recall who else. That was a big cadre of great players. Much better than the group going to SC right now.

 

[meyers7]

By reading what Im reading yes we do and I think her family knows if she doesn't come to UConn what she might be giving up.

I don't believe that. Unless she chooses not to come to UCONN because she would be afraid of the attention or doesn't think she's good enough. Which from what I read about her isn't the case. If she chooses SC (or somewhere else), I think it will be quite the opposite of giving up. It will be to be a pioneer, make her own path. Now that path may or may not get her to where she wants to go, but it will be her path.

I still hope she wants that path to be UCONN.

 

[Goodies07]

BUT having one solid class won't even get SC to the final 4. Dawn would need to convince her that she can follow up 2014 with terrific classes in 2015 and 2016 for SC to really make a mark while A'ja would be there....

You're completely discounting the players Staley already has on her roster though. I don't care to go into rankings too much because really all of that is thrown out of the window once you step in between the lines.

But SC has a very young team. They will essentially bring back their entire roster next season. They have just come off of two tournament appearances. It's not like they've been buried in the WNIT for these past few years. And it has been impressive what Staley has done with supposedly such "little talent" she's had up to this point. She reached the sweet sixteen just two seasons ago (for SC, this is big time) with her tallest player being 6'2".

I say none of this to delve into where I think Wilson should or will go. It's her choice. It will be UConn or some place else. I just wouldn't gauge a team's potential based on the number of 5 star recruits on their roster.

 

[EricSD]

You're completely discounting the players Staley already has on her roster though. I don't care to go into rankings too much because really all of that is thrown out of the window once you step in between the lines.

But SC has a very young team. They will essentially bring back their entire roster next season. They have just come off of two tournament appearances. It's not like they've been buried in the WNIT for these past few years. And it has been impressive what Staley has done with supposedly such "little talent" she's had up to this point. She narrowly missed the elite 8 just two seasons ago with her tallest player being 6'2".

I say none of this to delve into where I think Wilson should or will go. It's her choice. It will be UConn or some place else. I just wouldn't gauge a team's potential based on the number of 5 star recruits on their roster.

Correct but most of that production comes from current juniors. Altho you are correct they are getting some good production from a sophomore and freshman. But several will be seniors her freshman year. I have no doubt a team like that could make it to the sweet 16. After that it will depend on how she recruits going forward.

A class of Wilson, White, Cuevas, etc. is not enough to keep up with Duke, UCONN, Maryland, ND, Tennessee, UNC, Louisville, etc etc. unless she can follow up with more top 10 kids. Don't get me wrong - a team like Cal can make it to a final 4 in a perfect storm without a cadre of top 10 kids. but that's the exception not the rule. And I have no doubt she would make a great mark in college hoops if she went to SC. So much depends on what goals are most important to her, as well as what factors are most important to her.

But I think most would agree that SC wouldn't be out performing UCONN, Duke, ND, or Tennessee any time soon with one really good class. And that's not including Maryland, UNC, and maybe several others who have recruited better than SC the past few years. Remember when FSU landed Natasha Howard in 2010? They already had Bravard, Deluzio and Clayton on their team and certainly made some noise in the NCAA's, but one great player wasn't enough to really make an impact.

Again, i'm not saying SC won't be solid to very good if she goes there. But if one has NC hopes and aspirations, there are MANY more unknowns if she chooses SC.

 

[Wonkster]

More arrogance from the UCONN faithful..so no one can be great unless they play at UCONN.. where they would be surrounded by stars... I think anyone with half a basketball brain would realize that Elena created a legacy at Delaware (and nationally) as one of the best players EVER.. and is by far the most popular player on the scene these days (and guess what she shunned UCONN).. nobody on UCONN..not even Stewey , could go to Delaware and put them on the map like EDD..despite being a great achievement winning a NC is not the only goal of a collegiate athlete..this sounds like the reporters who judge QBs based on winning Super Bowls which would make Trent Dilfer a better QB than Dan Marino..maybe its a little more challenging to an athlete to try and be successful somewhere other than UCONN.. have fun playing in the new conference where it will be like the USA Team playing Panama..besides the UCONN faithful who love watching 30-40 pt blowouts it wont be of much interest to other girls BBall fans nor will it do much for trying to raise the interest of the womans game as a whole..

It looks to me like you're trying hard to create your own legacy as a hostile and nattering nabob of negativism on the Boneyard. Why don't you find another topic, and stop boring us?

 

[CCinCT]

Just curious if anyone knows what team ciarlante owes his/her allegiance to.

It could explain a lot.

 

[Buzzyboy]

You're completely discounting the players Staley already has on her roster though. I don't care to go into rankings too much because really all of that is thrown out of the window once you step in between the lines.

But SC has a very young team. They will essentially bring back their entire roster next season. They have just come off of two tournament appearances. It's not like they've been buried in the WNIT for these past few years. And it has been impressive what Staley has done with supposedly such "little talent" she's had up to this point. She reached the sweet sixteen just two seasons ago (for SC, this is big time) with her tallest player being 6'2".

I say none of this to delve into where I think Wilson should or will go. It's her choice. It will be UConn or some place else. I just wouldn't gauge a team's potential based on the number of 5 star recruits on their roster.

I don't think you can automatically assume that a team that made the Sweet 16 is an outstanding team. I'm sure there have been multiple times when a team has gotten there through a series of events that weren't all about quality basketball. Playing teams that were "perfectly suited" to play against, meaning your strengths might have exposed their weaknesses and resulted in a victory that playing against another team would never have happened. Playing a team whose most prominent player got injured just before or in the early part of your game or something similarly where your team was matched up against the ideal opponent and you played your -A- game while they were playing their -C-, -D-, or worse game against. I know even making the tournament suggests you have a nice team but more than a few mediocre teams have managed to win a few tournament games so that doesn't always suggest to me that you're a high quality team just by getting that far. I'm just being the devils advocate and suggesting she's got a ways to go before assuming she's a really good coach.

 

[asuwish]

A'ja should go to a school where she will be most happy. However, IMHO if one of her goals is to win a National Championship, that won't happen at South Carolina. It's rare that an elite player is able to recruit additional elite players to their school in subsequent recruiting classes. Even if South Carolina signs A'ja they still have a way to go to catch up to Kentucky and the Lady Vols. Never mind LSU and Georgia. However, if A'ja and her family are more comfortable staying close to home that's where she should go.

It will be interesting to see if she decides on UNC as that is also reasonably close to home and they have a nucleus to have a great team. However, IMHO that will always be Diamond's team and she will get the credit if they win any National Championships in the next four years.

Sure there are recruiting classes like UNC had last year and OSU is having this year where players in the same recruiting class decide they want to attend the same school. UConn had the TASSK class as well. How often does it happen with players in different recruiting classes. Not often enough to think that A'ja can do it. Now if A'ja had decided on a school already, she might have been able to get more elite players to consider a school like South Carolina. South Carolina is not a hot bed for Women Basketball Recruits so that will make A'ja's task more difficult if she decides on South Carolina.

Hopefully she decides UConn is the best place for her to go, time will tell.

Move over Diamond, this would be both there team. If she is good as we think she will leave a legacy as a great player at either Uconn or SC. At Uconn we are a little spoiled thinking that you must win a NC to do so.
To those who wrote that if she comes to Uconn she maybe overlooked for AA honors what world are you living in? Uconn has 4 players on the pre-season AA list and has had many multiple winners.
Playing with great players can make you better, and avoids double teams when one player is clearly better than the rest of the line up. Some players like EDD still excel as a lone star.
Other players like the Team USA concept when a group of great players play together and form a great team. This isn't high school anymore where a single unstoppable player takes you all the way. Playing at Uconn is playing 5 man basketball, not 1 and please don't screw up.
She is from SC (and there is some talent their) so you see why she may want to go there, but it would be hard to get other great players to follow her. The Paris sisters could only get so much talent to come to OU and OU was a much more established program at the time (they had already been in a title game) in recruiting than SC.
Ultimately, I actually think it comes down to does she want to play for Geno? He is the best coach in the world, and the way his teams play hard and in control for 40 min every night regardless of opponent or score is amazing. Dawn is a good coach, but when watching how Uconn plays nobody is Geno. She can stay home, win some games, and have a great career or go away, be a bit more challenged, win more games, play for Geno, and have a great career.

 

[Buzzyboy]

I think the op's definition of legacy is unusually narrow and the way Aja used the word far more common. Jackie Stiles left a legacy. Lindsay Whalen left a legacy. EDD left a legacy. And so have even less noteworthy players. They helped their programs achieve things never achieved by the programs previously and helped attract significant attention for both the programs and the schools. It is a legacy ff for no other reason that thousands of people carry forward the memories of being part of those experiences.

And when I see UConn fans be critical of recruits who say they might want to go somewhere where they can create their own legacy I always think back to the many times that Rebecca Lobo has said she chose UConn instead of the likes of Stanford was because she could help build a program. If you take her at her word she may not have chosen to come to the UConn of today.

I agree that Jackie Stiles, Lindsay Whalen, EDD and others have left their mark at their respective schools but I'm not sure if even a couple of years later anyone made a point at attending Jackie Stiles alma mater as a result of her legacy. They may have helped to spur youngsters to work as hard as they could to become a great women's basketball player but to attend any of their institutions????? I don't think many girls have a great desire to specifically play for Delaware or Minnesota as a result of EDD or Lindsay Whalen having played there. I could much more imagine someone wanting to play at a school where the coaching staff has brought in players and made them better, with some continuing to play ball professionally. Geno's 1991 women's team consisted of only one player who was probably rated in the top 100 recruits when they enrolled at UConn and he made them better, made them believe in a team concept and taught them fundamentals that insured success well beyond their expectations. He doesn't get credit now because his recruits are appreciably better but that shouldn't take away the fact that he makes his players better regardless of how good they were to start with.

 

[semper]

If Wilson wants to become the very best she can be, and be in the national spotlight, she should come to UCONN. There is simply no other decision to make. If you want to hang around home, be with friends and family, play some decent ball....then to SC you go. This stuff is so easy.

 

[doggydaddy]

Eleven.

Fourteen if you add in your two counting posts and now this one.

 

[pksundevil]

pksundevil I'd say your definition of a legacy sets the bar too low. I know you don't adopt it, but just throw it out there. That definition does not look like legacy, but inertia or echo. I doubt Delaware will be in the NCAAs next spring and suspect you have nailed it : in 2-3 years Delaware will look like Delaware pre EDD. The time for Delaware to capitalize on EDD's presence was when she was there and that did not happen when it came to recruiting.

Legacy is a big word and should mean more than some here suggest, though maybe my definition is a tad high up there.

I didn't say they'd be in the NCAAs next spring. Nor did I say they would look like UD pre- EDD. Right now they have a freshman who was rated #76 in the ESPN top 100, a young team full of scorers, and a chance to build a program. I think they DID capitalize on EDD being there in recruiting, but if the measure is top-30 recruits, that's an unreasonable standard. I said in 2 years they are a borderline top 25 team. That is much better than pre- EDD, when they consistently won 20 games per year but weren't expected to consistently win the league. Everyone said attendance would fall back to pre- EDD levels this year, and it hasn't. Delaware will find out in a couple of years how long lasting the legacy is . Maybe it's just this group of recruits which will very likely do quite well, maybe it will last beyond that.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I didn't say they'd be in the NCAAs next spring. Nor did I say they would look like UD pre- EDD. Right now they have a freshman who was rated #76 in the ESPN top 100, a young team full of scorers, and a chance to build a program. I think they DID capitalize on EDD being there in recruiting, but if the measure is top-30 recruits, that's an unreasonable standard. I said in 2 years they are a borderline top 25 team. That is much better than pre- EDD, when they consistently won 20 games per year but weren't expected to consistently win the league. Everyone said attendance would fall back to pre- EDD levels this year, and it hasn't. Delaware will find out in a couple of years how long lasting the legacy is . Maybe it's just this group of recruits which will very likely do quite well, maybe it will last beyond that.

You are right - I misread your NCAA prediction - that is for 2015 I gather. I agree with you about this: A legacy is demonstrated by the persistence of what someone set out to do over a considerable time period. If it does not last, it is not a legacy. Time will tell. EDD did give Delaware a heck of a fun ride; a very classy student athlete.

 

[UcMiami]

To second your excellent post just look at what Kia Nurse's father had to say yesterday about her commitment. For the most part these kids are focused on the question: What program can take me the farthest in my development.

Coach Auriemma is the senior women’s national team coach, so he’s fully aware of the commitment it takes to get to that level. That was a deciding factor for us.
That was the quote you were referring to.
I think a player like Diggins is a good 'legacy' example - I am sure she and ND fans are disappointed that they did not get an NC during her time, and ND already had one in its back pocket, but ... they were mired in 'good' mediocrity until she and a few others arrived (not minimizing the other recruits from the years before or after.) By the time she left ND was in the discussion for top rank every year and had a string of FF appearances to build on. I am sure she is proud of that fact, and the ND fans are thankful she showed up. Is that a 'legacy'? I would say yes, but in future it will look better if ND maintains the current level and a lot worse if they slowly fade back to mid 2000s form.

 

[UConnCat]

I find it interesting that we've had two UConn recruits (or families) mention "creating own legacy." There likely will be others who use this phrase. This must be the recruiting pitch against UConn (together with the conference issues).

Kia Nurse said this: "Do I want to play for someone who wins the national championship or someone who helps build a legacy?

Roscoe Wilson said this: That’s what she has to decide — does she want to be a part of that or create her own legacy?”

I think Brenda Freese once referred to UConn as a factory or some similar phrase that dehumanized the program.

These statements make it sound as if the accomplishments of current and future UConn players will be buried or obscured by the weight of its long and successful history. I don't think that's true. I think Geno and Chris have done a tremendous job of both honoring the past and also staying in the moment with the current players and their accomplishments. They know how hard it is to win a national championship and how special it is for every player who has the good fortune of competing for and celebrating a championship. Every player and every team is given an opportunity to put their own mark on the program and its legacy as we're seeing now with the current players (Stef, Bria, KML, Stewie).

 

[Icebear]

I find it interesting that we've had two UConn recruits (or families) mention "creating own legacy." There likely will be others who use this phrase. This must be the recruiting pitch against UConn (together with the conference issues).

Kia Nurse said this: "Do I want to play for someone who wins the national championship or someone who helps build a legacy?

Roscoe Wilson said this: That’s what she has to decide — does she want to be a part of that or create her own legacy?”

I think Brenda Freese once referred to UConn as a factory or some similar phrase that dehumanized the program.

These statements make it sound as if the accomplishments of current and future UConn players will be buried or obscured by the weight of its long and successful history. I don't think that's true. I think Geno and Chris have done a tremendous job of both honoring the past and also staying in the moment with the current players and their accomplishments. They know how hard it is to win a national championship and how special it is for every player who has the good fortune of competing for and celebrating a championship. Every player and every team is given an opportunity to put their own mark on the program and its legacy as we're seeing now with the current players (Stef, Bria, KML, Stewie).

Players, also, know that their names will be recorded in history on a banner if they become an All American at UCONN. It will be there for folks and recruits to see and to aspire to for years. The builders of the tradition are visible as part of that wall that continues to stretch into the future.

 

[BRS24]

I think Brenda Freese once referred to UConn as a factory or some similar phrase that dehumanized the program.

If true, that's a very interesting perspective. Think of all the UConn players that have gone onto the WNBA and other leagues globally, that weren't the "stars" of the program. And then think of all the ways that Geno, Chris, and staff prepare the young women for life after UConn, beyond the court. Regardless of whether they play any professional ball, I would think that "the program" does a lot more for these young ladies that just prepare them for hoop after graduation. I never played sports in college, however based on my outsider's view of the program, I'd want to be a part of it, based on the rich legacy that has been created.

 

[UConnCat]

If true, that's a very interesting perspective. Think of all the UConn players that have gone onto the WNBA and other leagues globally, that weren't the "stars" of the program. And then think of all the ways that Geno, Chris, and staff prepare the young women for life after UConn, beyond the court. Regardless of whether they play any professional ball, I would think that "the program" does a lot more for these young ladies that just prepare them for hoop after graduation. I never played sports in college, however based on my outsider's view of the program, I'd want to be a part of it, based on the rich legacy that has been created.

Your post reminds me that Dr. Leigh Ann Curl was at the Maryland game on Friday night. She is the orthopedic surgeon for the Baltimore Ravens and the only woman to hold such a position. Although she graduated in 1985 before Geno and Chris arrived, I'm sure they enjoyed seeing her.

 

[UcMiami]

As someone mentioned regarding Lobo's statements after she chose Uconn, I think that question of blazing one's own path/continuing a long tradition of excellence has been around for a very long time. And it probably exists without prompting by coaches, though I am sure some bring it up.

 

[baggerbob]

Rebecca, Sue, Diana, Tina, Maya, Kelly, and others have created a legacy of their own, but created a greater legacy as members of a great team.

 

[TheTruthBelow]

You're completely discounting the players Staley already has on her roster though. I don't care to go into rankings too much because really all of that is thrown out of the window once you step in between the lines.

But SC has a very young team. They will essentially bring back their entire roster next season. They have just come off of two tournament appearances. It's not like they've been buried in the WNIT for these past few years. And it has been impressive what Staley has done with supposedly such "little talent" she's had up to this point. She reached the sweet sixteen just two seasons ago (for SC, this is big time) with her tallest player being 6'2".

I say none of this to delve into where I think Wilson should or will go. It's her choice. It will be UConn or some place else. I just wouldn't gauge a team's potential based on the number of 5 star recruits on their roster.

Well said. Maryland loses Thomas, DeVaughn and Rutan after this season; Kentucky Stallworth, Evans, and Walker; Duke Gray, Liston, Peters, Jackson and Wells; Louisville Schimmel and Slaughter, and Notre Dame Achonwa and McBride. SC with A'ja would have as good of a shot at winning a NC as anyone outside of UConn next season.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

One other thought about matriculating and graduating from the Geno school of basketball: It is not just about basketball. Like Wooden and his staff, Geno and his staff teach fundamental life values and the right way to do things in general. That, plus the rigor of the program and it's fame make for a tremendous calling card to open doors in the working world post graduation even if professional basketball is not part of that future.