The False Recruiting Dichotomy

[Paul1969]

I always preferred Tang to Kool-Aid

 

[msf22b]

I guess I disagree on what legacy means.

How many top recruits followed EDD to Delaware? None.
Where is Delaware projected to be in the CAA, their conference for this coming season? 5th.

She was a great college player. GREAT. But she didn't leave a legacy IMO.

Agree Doggy, there is no evidence of follow-up (I thought the coaching was sub-par or worse) but was thinking about this definition which doesn't imply continuation or follow-up.
: something transmitted by or received from an ancestor or predecessor or from the past <the legacy of the ancient philosophers>

 

[ochoopsfan]

Additionally, SC has not recruited any elite players during Staley's tenure there. There are only a few top kids left in 2014 and I don't know if any are considering SC, but in Aja's freshman year, the highest rated recruits would be Sr. Welsh (#88), Jr. Sessions (#40), Sophomore Coats (#75) and Freshman Duckett (#32).

Have to point out there is one Elite recruit Staley had recruited, IMO.
Staley came to South Carolina in May of 2008 and Kelsey Bone verballed at the McDonald's game the following March, 2009. Bone only stayed at Carolina for one year then transferred to TAM.
First round WNBA pick and played well for NY this past year as a rookie.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Agree Doggy, there is no evidence of follow-up (I thought the coaching was sub-par or worse) but was thinking about this definition which doesn't imply continuation or follow-up.
: something transmitted by or received from an ancestor or predecessor or from the past <the legacy of the ancient philosophers>

EDD left a personal legacy, but no team legacy, as I see it. At UCONN, "Legacy" is always associated, indeed embedded, with "Team and University".

 

[EricLA]

Have to point out there is one Elite recruit Staley had, IMO.
Staley came to South Carolina in May of 2008 and Kelsey Bone verballed at the McDonald's game the following March, 2009. Bone only stayed at Carolina for one year then transferred to TAM.
First round WNBA pick and played well for NY this past year as a rookie.

Right. Thanks. Forgot about her. In some ways, though, that's even worse. One could argue that she got an elite kid, but never could surround her with other elite kids, and Bone knowing that, bolted for greener pastures. But also, there could have been may other reasons Bone left.

 

[msf22b]

msf, EDD did not reject things CT, she chose more important values than basketball and played near home. She has repeatedly said it wasn't about UCONN.

There is a vast difference between rejecting something and choosing something else.

You'll note that I stated a similar thought at the top of my post and completely agree.
But for the rest of the country, that is unfortunately part and parcel of the legend.

 

[Icebear]

You, also, said, "But with regard Elena, there was the amazing back-story which infused all discussion and fascination with her; her rejection of things Ct, her local roots, the sister bit and her good looks, which certainly didn't hurt."

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I agree with pretty much everything you all have said about your own team, about the opportunities for players at UConn, the development, etc. No argument from someone who saw it somewhat close-up for 15 years.

But one thing about fan bases and fans on message boards - it is very difficult to view things from somewhere else. Sue Wicks and Cappie have left legacies at Rutgers, where their history is honored. EDD left a legacy at Delaware and yes, various players have put teams "on the map" whether or not they have won national championships. There is way to much judging of players based on their NC / pro championships and their ability to lead their team there - it wasn't happening for Delaware and that was a given. Not everyone does that on the BY, but there is an undercurrent throughout sports.

The other thing that I think is hard for folks to see is that while it is at least arguably true that if it is good for UConn WBB it is good for WBB in general, it is absolutely good for the development of WBB for other teams to rise. Even if I knew they were not going to win a NC, I enjoyed watching EDD at Delaware, I enjoyed in the past stars at other schools, some of whom at Stanford and Duke had at least chances. And in some cases they have built solid bases for fandom - even Arizona has a solid base built in the Bonvincini that would come back if there was some success.

 

[Phil]

anything not drinking the kool aid is labeled "ignorant"..which is where this post began...

Look, I realize I'm being played, but what the heck it is fun.

Eric said it well. If you are trying to provoke a reaction by saying ignorant things, well. you've succeeded, but succeeded at what, exactly?

If you disagree your response was steeped in ignorance, then I feel sorry for you.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Agree Doggy, there is no evidence of follow-up (I thought the coaching was sub-par or worse) but was thinking about this definition which doesn't imply continuation or follow-up.
: something transmitted by or received from an ancestor or predecessor or from the past <the legacy of the ancient philosophers>

Actually msf22b doesn't the definition state that something is passed on? Or maybe I have to have some more coffee!! What EDD left was a memory that a great player passed through the program. I would also argue that the measure of her greatness was not appreciated while she was playing in the Delaware program, though people took notice in the NCAAs and more so when she hit the WNBA. EDD has said that an area she needs to work on is strength; an area that was not helped by Delaware and its league. She is none the less a great player who will get even better and a good "citizen" of the game.

 

[jdubct]

South Carolina fans want A'ja for their own team. As expected. She'll choose her school for whatever reason(s) are important to her. All else, including what "creating a legacy" means will remain Aja's to decide, if in fact, that is important to her.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

I don't know what Aija's goals are. I'm sure there are several, but if one of them is to win a collegiate championship the question she needs to answer as honestly as possible is: How disappointed will I be if I don't achieve that? Because one road will make such a goal unlikely and the other will not.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

South Carolina fans want A'ja for their own team. As expected. She'll choose her school for whatever reason(s) are important to her. All else, including what "creating a legacy" means will remain Aja's to decide, if in fact, that is important to her.

Sure, but still, it is worthy of discussion at a more general level.

 

[doggydaddy]

You'll note that I stated a similar thought at the top of my post and completely agree.
But for the rest of the country, that is unfortunately part and parcel of the legend.

Really? The legend is she rejected everything Ct??

Not buying it.

 

[Kibitzer]

The Wilson family is doing what millions (!) of American families do every year, deciding what college experience will be best for their daughter. The difference between their decision-making process and most is that instead of focusing on which schools might admit the applicant, they are focusing on which of the schools offering a full scholarship offer the most appeal.

So they are making a list of factors to consider, just like everybody else, and they are establishing some sort of weight to each. A'ja's list surely includes the usual items -- academics, campus atmosphere, etc. -- but also includes basketball factors (coaches, prospects of success, compatability with prospective teammates, etc.).

If she attaches a high importance to staying close to home (like Hammond did), that favors South Carolina. If winning an NC is vital, her choice is not difficult. There may be unusual family circumstances (e.g., EDD) that demand consideration. We have no idea what their priorities are.

I respect what the Wilsons are doing and I hope they make a wise decision.

And I like our chances.

 

[RadyLady]

anything not drinking the kool aid is labeled "ignorant"..which is where this post began...

really?

 

[EricLA]

“I liked UConn because they play the right way,” Ekmark said. “I don’t want to be known as just a shooter; I want to be a great overall player. That’s what I wanted to work on.”

This is a great quote from Courtney Ekmark and the reason I pulled it from an article in a different thread is because it highlights the way UCONN coaches and teaches players. I'll use Charde Houston as an example from UCONN.

She came in with a ton of gifts as a scorer. UCONN wanted her to be much more of a complete player than what her physical gifts and instincts caused her to rely and fall back on. It's one of the very few examples of a player who the coaches were unable to get to really buy into the system, and work on expanding her game and becoming a more complete and well rounded player. This is not to say Charde isn't a terrific person, teammate, and pro. She's carved out a nice niche in the WNBA. But she wasn't able to get on the same page as the coaching staff who wanted a more well rounded and team orientated player.

My point is even tho the coaches were not completely successful with Charde, it shows the coaches were unwilling to accept a player doing only what she knew best without expanding her skills and abilities, to be even better than she thought she could be.

It's my opinion that most programs out there do NOT follow the UCONN example. In fact, I'd go so far as to say most all of them do not. It's one of the great things that separates UCONN from everyone else. Former players say it all the time - Geno and co. pushed them to be better than even they thought they could be. And Geno loves it when those players come to him and say "I want to be great. Help me get there".

Most programs would be thrilled to get a player like Courtney, but they'd be content to let her be a spot up shooter and while of course she'd work on her game, that's the extent of where they'd push her.

That Courtney realizes this and wants to be pushed to be the best she can be, even beyond what she thought, is exactly the type of player UCONN looks for, whether the kid is ranked 1 or 100.

 

[UcMiami]

Eric - nice post. But I will add something else about Charde - I do not think her Uconn time was all that much fun for her and I think she might have done better and enjoyed herself more at another program. But I respect her very much for staying and continuing to strive at Uconn. I think that dedication and personal commitment are pretty exceptional and she will always be a favorite of mine for that reason. It is easy to be joyful for the joyful players that have played at Uconn. She and Kalli stand out as players who did not have the easiest of times but fought through to graduation.

 

[Icebear]

I would disagree about Kaili.

 

[msf22b]

I find it interesting that after 33 or so posts (some addressing different issues) that Cialante's second point is virtually unaddressed…the negative effect of the extraordinarily weak conference, especially after
Rutgers and L'ville depart. His (I assume a gent) quote is:

besides the UCONN faithful who love watching 30-40 pt blowouts it wont be of much interest to other girls

Does this point strike one as having merit?

 

[SallyH]

I find it interesting that after 33 or so posts (some addressing different issues) that Cialante's second point is virtually unaddressed…the negative effect of the extraordinarily weak conference, especially after
Rutgers and L'ville depart. His (I assume a gent) quote is:

besides the UCONN faithful who love watching 30-40 pt blowouts it wont be of much interest to other girls

Does this point strike one as having merit?

UConn will do for that conference what they did for the big east, but they will start on top. I think player better competition will make these teams better. Time will tell, I suppose.

 

[trisailin]

Cialante's ...... His (I assume a gent) quote is: .....

I might suggest that observation is your friend. If you care to observe, the poster who's comment you are referencing, has as their "picture" a symbol which is widely regarded to refer to females.

As to your main point, I think you quite well addressed it in your posting of 11AM in this thread. The facts are that even in the "powerhouse" Big East, most of the games fell to the competition level of games with "also ran" type of teams. Generally there was only one other truly competitive team in the conference - very seldom two in the same year.
Strength of conference really hasn't meant much.

 

[Icebear]

I find it interesting that after 33 or so posts (some addressing different issues) that Cialante's second point is virtually unaddressed…the negative effect of the extraordinarily weak conference, especially after
Rutgers and L'ville depart. His (I assume a gent) quote is:

besides the UCONN faithful who love watching 30-40 pt blowouts it wont be of much interest to other girls

Does this point strike one as having merit?

Probably because it has already been discussed to death earlier in the year.

 

[Wbbfan1]

However, UConn will play the toughest Out of Conference Schedule and that will make up for the weaker conference schedule. I suspect it will only take Houston a couple of years to get considerably better due to the talent level in Texas. USF is also an improving program and will on their way to be a team that makes the tournament on an annual basis. It will be interesting to see what Temple is able to do in the new conference.

I find it interesting that after 33 or so posts (some addressing different issues) that Cialante's second point is virtually unaddressed…the negative effect of the extraordinarily weak conference, especially after
Rutgers and L'ville depart. His (I assume a gent) quote is:

besides the UCONN faithful who love watching 30-40 pt blowouts it wont be of much interest to other girls

Does this point strike one as having merit?

 

[UCONNfan1]

I find it interesting that after 33 or so posts (some addressing different issues) that Cialante's second point is virtually unaddressed…the negative effect of the extraordinarily weak conference, especially after
Rutgers and L'ville depart. His (I assume a gent) quote is:

besides the UCONN faithful who love watching 30-40 pt blowouts it wont be of much interest to other girls

Does this point strike one as having merit?

Come back and ask that question after UCONN beats Duke, Stanford, Maryland, and PSU by 30-40 points.